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Tami
05-03-2014, 06:29 AM
Harry Dresden (As of Book 14. Can't use magic but has his Enchanted Duster, Staff, 44 and Winchester. Does have Stat Boost from being Winter Knight)

vs

Captain America (MCU)

Who wins?

FaerieGodfather
05-03-2014, 07:41 AM
Why can't he use magic? He was certainly more than capable of it during Cold Days.

But answer's simple-- without spells, this one goes to Cap as a no-brainer. Dresden's Winter Knight buffs don't make him all that much stronger or faster than MCU Cap, and Cap is one of the best hand-to-hand fighters on Earth.

edit: Since we're talking MCU Cap here, he might even be stronger than Dresden.

Tami
05-03-2014, 07:55 AM
Why can't he use magic? He was certainly more than capable of it during Cold Days.

But answer's simple-- without spells, this one goes to Cap as a no-brainer. Dresden's Winter Knight buffs don't make him all that much stronger or faster than MCU Cap, and Cap is one of the best hand-to-hand fighters on Earth.

edit: Since we're talking MCU Cap here, he might even be stronger than Dresden.

With Magic, I think it would be a curbstomp in Harry's favor.

FaerieGodfather
05-03-2014, 08:13 AM
Yeah. At least Cap's mortal, so he'll survive.

wjowski
05-03-2014, 08:34 AM
Take out the guns and Dresden gets his teeth knocked down his throat.

Surtur
05-03-2014, 09:00 AM
With magic he kills Cap easily, without it I guess he could try shooting out his kneecaps or something.

Kusanagi
05-03-2014, 09:01 AM
Dresden gets his ass kicked. While in full winter knight mode he was beastly, he didn't have the best control, and I don't recall him doing anything Cap couldn't handle.

Surtur
05-03-2014, 09:04 AM
Dresden gets his ass kicked. While in full winter knight mode he was beastly, he didn't have the best control, and I don't recall him doing anything Cap couldn't handle.

I'm not sure what you mean about not having the best control. Sure he kind of got all rapey at certain times, but I don't think that will factor in here..and his control of his powers seemed to get better in the last book, not worse. I'm not saying that he could physically beat Cap, just that he would lose due to lack of power as opposed to lack of control.

Yeoman
05-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Take out the guns and Dresden gets his teeth knocked down his throat.

How exactly would they help? Dresden isn't exactly a good shot, and Cap casually blocks shots from people who are.

I'm not sure what you mean about not having the best control. Sure he kind of got all rapey at certain times, but I don't think that will factor in here..and his control of his powers seemed to get better in the last book, not worse. I'm not saying that he could physically beat Cap, just that he would lose due to lack of power as opposed to lack of control.

Considering he can focus the gravitational pull of several square miles down onto a couple hundred feat, I think he's got more than enough juice to take Cap with his magic. And I'm also not seeing why he wouldn't have it. He's pretty clearly got it in Cold Days. It's altered a little by the Mantle, but that's it.

We could always ask Butcher about the magic on Twitter, I've seen him resolve sillier disputes. :)

Surtur
05-03-2014, 06:52 PM
I assumed it wasn't being said he didn't have his magic in the books, but rather it was just a handicap for the fight. I can't imagine how anyone could read Cold Days and come away thinking he had no magic. One of his feats early in the book is killing an ogre with ice magic pretty casually.

Though I do suppose even if you said he can't use his own magic, his duster still more or less is durable enough to protect him from bullets(though a shield to the face is going to mess him up), and he could probably kill Cap with his staff. I think guns would only help if he can use his staff to knock cap off his feet and then shoot him. Then again, I would think Harry would need his powers in order to use his staff, since IIRC it's just a focus. Since it's not like any normal human can pick up a staff and use it. So if we are assuming he has no magic but the staff still functions, I think he can take it. He has some decent reaction time too.

The Drunkard Kid
05-03-2014, 11:13 PM
As with all these types of fights, Khazan bloodlust will have to fight an uphill battle against a giant Marvel Comics Fanboy's desire to ask for an autograph.

Hey, I wonder if being the Winter Knight means his techbane property is neutralized. That was specifically a relatively new side effect of mortal magic, and the Faerie don't have any problems in that regard.

big_adventure
05-04-2014, 09:40 AM
I assumed it wasn't being said he didn't have his magic in the books, but rather it was just a handicap for the fight. I can't imagine how anyone could read Cold Days and come away thinking he had no magic. One of his feats early in the book is killing an ogre with ice magic pretty casually.

Though I do suppose even if you said he can't use his own magic, his duster still more or less is durable enough to protect him from bullets(though a shield to the face is going to mess him up), and he could probably kill Cap with his staff. I think guns would only help if he can use his staff to knock cap off his feet and then shoot him. Then again, I would think Harry would need his powers in order to use his staff, since IIRC it's just a focus. Since it's not like any normal human can pick up a staff and use it. So if we are assuming he has no magic but the staff still functions, I think he can take it. He has some decent reaction time too.

Yeah, with no magic, the staff doesn't do anything - it's just a stick.

Daenarys Stormborn
05-04-2014, 09:50 AM
Well, I not sure about who is faster, but I don't think the winner would be by much. I would say the same applies to strength (barring the Agents of Shield Statement) and durability. Actually, in the case of durability, Harry's duster could, more or less, soak more than Cap- blow for blow i mean. That's just the function of the Duster...although if that applies to non magic I can,t remember. Of course cap has the shield for soak himself. In the end most of that doesn't matter too much because Cap is vastly more skilled and agile. In this respect, it is just a matter of time until Harry goes down. In fact, Cap could probably win without his shield. It would just take reallllllllyyyyy long given Rage mode Harry basically forget he can feel pain.

Iron_Twister
05-04-2014, 09:52 AM
Yeah, Dresden with his magic has a good number of options to take out Cap. Without it, I can somewhat see Dresden taking punishment (he's always been the kind to just take absurd amount of damage and just keeps on ticking) but lacks the ability to effectively counterattack. He's no expert marksman if I can recall and although he does have fighting skills, there are many characters in his verse that are just better in close up combat that I could say any of them can give Cap a good fight.

Meanwhile, Cap dismantles his foe with his much more superior hand to hand abilities and probably conks Harry out with a well placed shield blow at the end.

wjowski
05-04-2014, 11:50 AM
How exactly would they help? Dresden isn't exactly a good shot, and Cap casually blocks shots from people who are.

Delaying the inevitable ass-kicking? At any rate my main point is that even with the Winter Knight upgrades Dresden's nowhere near Cap's league as a physical fighter.

Tami
05-04-2014, 12:44 PM
Yeah, with no magic, the staff doesn't do anything - it's just a stick.

I wouldn't say that, Thomas used Harry's staff to fight off a small army of powerful Ghouls, and it never even splintered. Those Staffs are built to take punishment.

Tami
05-04-2014, 12:45 PM
Yeah, Dresden with his magic has a good number of options to take out Cap. Without it, I can somewhat see Dresden taking punishment (he's always been the kind to just take absurd amount of damage and just keeps on ticking) but lacks the ability to effectively counterattack. He's no expert marksman if I can recall and although he does have fighting skills, there are many characters in his verse that are just better in close up combat that I could say any of them can give Cap a good fight.

Meanwhile, Cap dismantles his foe with his much more superior hand to hand abilities and probably conks Harry out with a well placed shield blow at the end.

What is Cap's Strength level? Harry's is now above Peak Human.

big_adventure
05-04-2014, 01:39 PM
I wouldn't say that, Thomas used Harry's staff to fight off a small army of powerful Ghouls, and it never even splintered. Those Staffs are built to take punishment.

I mean that it doesn't shoot magic on it's own - it's just there to focus his magic.

Tami
05-04-2014, 01:57 PM
I mean that it doesn't shoot magic on it's own - it's just there to focus his magic.

No, it doesn't. That is true. But I think, like the Duster, it is magically enhanced.

Primetime Harder
05-04-2014, 02:20 PM
It is worth mentioning that Cap is significantly faster than Harry. He may not be Spider-Man, but he's got a number of feats where his speed completely baffles mooks with guns. Unless being the Winter Knight grants Harry a significant boost to his reaction speed, he's going down before he knows what hit him.

wjowski
05-04-2014, 05:34 PM
What is Cap's Strength level? Harry's is now above Peak Human.

Comic Book Peak Human, I believe. Of course he's also an untouchable blur to Dresden so...

WickedElphaba
05-04-2014, 05:49 PM
What is Cap's Strength level? Harry's is now above Peak Human.

MCU Cap is Class 1 or Class 2 isn't he?

Tami
05-04-2014, 06:19 PM
MCU Cap is Class 1 or Class 2 isn't he?

Didn't think so, but acording to Marvel Wiki Captain America is in the 1,200 lb range. I thought he was weaker than that. Harry is in the 800-900 lb range.

The Drunkard Kid
05-04-2014, 06:45 PM
Didn't think so, but acording to Marvel Wiki Captain America is in the 1,200 lb range. I thought he was weaker than that. Harry is in the 800-900 lb range.
I chose to believe that you are actually talking about weight.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-04-2014, 08:54 PM
I chose to believe that you are actually talking about weight.

Cap is powered by the weight of America. Dresden is powered by all the magic he's consumed since the outset.

Yes I know this isn't actually the case. But wouldn't that be awesome?

Primetime Harder
05-04-2014, 09:08 PM
I chose to believe that you are actually talking about weight.

Shisaa, pisa hu wonki Toot Toot.

MorphyVSFischer
05-05-2014, 01:54 PM
MCU Cap is Class 1 or Class 2 isn't he?

I don't think we have quite enough to call him class one just yet, MCU is peak human-ish as far as I've seen.