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Anarchist
05-03-2014, 12:15 PM
One Hulk is surely no real opponent for him, but can he also stand against the whole family?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/5344/957002-magneto_01.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/36657/1692533-hulk_family.jpg
(Hulk, Red Hulk, She-Hulk, Lyra, Red She-Hulk, Skaar, A-Bomb, Doc Samson, oh, and I'll also throw in Korg the Kronan (http://marvel.wikia.com/Korg_(Earth-616)) just for fucks and giggles)

Miracleman
05-03-2014, 01:44 PM
Did red hulk lose his ability absorb energy?

Guy Smiley
05-03-2014, 02:03 PM
Yup, I'm pretty sure Mags can take on that entire team.

And I'm pretty sure Rulk's ability to absorb cosmic energy was a buff being granted to him by the Intelligentsia, which he no longer has. Dunno if that applies to other kinds of energy as well, but my suspicion is that it does.

Anarchist
05-03-2014, 02:26 PM
It's still kind of there, but he can't use it anymore because it backfires (and even if he could, he'd have to get his hands on Magnus first).

Anyway, I know Mag's shields are pretty darn durable, how long would they withstand a combined assault from all the Hulks at once?

Captain Morgan
05-03-2014, 04:28 PM
It's still kind of there, but he can't use it anymore because it backfires (and even if he could, he'd have to get his hands on Magnus first).

Anyway, I know Mag's shields are pretty darn durable, how long would they withstand a combined assault from all the Hulks at once?

They don't need to. He can just chuck them all into space with a thought.

Blackid
05-03-2014, 06:30 PM
Question: Are any of the hulks super intelligent? There might be an idea of getting to him strategically.

heretic
05-03-2014, 06:42 PM
Question: Are any of the hulks super intelligent? There might be an idea of getting to him strategically.Banner is quite bright, and depending on the week his alter ego can tap that.

None of them can work out tactics that nullifies Maggie's mobility and range edge. so unless this is the Post AvX nerfing I cannot see the Hulks having a real chance.

KingEli
05-03-2014, 06:58 PM
Magnus grabs Banner and uses him as a club to beat the others and then tosses him to space.

Surtur
05-03-2014, 07:01 PM
I also thought Magneto could use his powers to rip apart people with near Class 100 durability.

Shellhead
05-03-2014, 07:13 PM
Banner is quite bright, and depending on the week his alter ego can tap that.

That raises an interesting question. Is Magneto smarter than Bruce Banner? Banner is famous for inventing the gamma bomb, but what else has he ever done? Magneto has built some impressive hardware, and it took intellect along with his powers to make that stuff work. He has also done some impressive work with genetics, turning ordinary humans from the Savage Land into superhuman mutates.

Blackid
05-03-2014, 07:15 PM
I also thought Magneto could use his powers to rip apart people with near Class 100 durability.

So he's still OP'd to the max... taking iron and stuff out of people? I don't like that... wish he was as he was with external metals or managing people with heavy amounts of metal in their bodies (ie, Wolverine). What can he do currently?

Guy Smiley
05-03-2014, 07:35 PM
That raises an interesting question. Is Magneto smarter than Bruce Banner? Banner is famous for inventing the gamma bomb, but what else has he ever done? Magneto has built some impressive hardware, and it took intellect along with his powers to make that stuff work. He has also done some impressive work with genetics, turning ordinary humans from the Savage Land into superhuman mutates.

After the Intelligentsia arranged for Hulk to be de-Hulked, Banner was running around doing superscience stuff like making portable force fields that let him laugh off Skaar's attacks. I didn't catch much of that particular storyline due to difficulty getting comics in the local area at the time, but I gather he built a number of other notable devices.

So yeah, Banner's got some decent Marvel nerd-cred.


So he's still OP'd to the max... taking iron and stuff out of people? I don't like that... wish he was as he was with external metals or managing people with heavy amounts of metal in their bodies (ie, Wolverine). What can he do currently?

Unless Mags has been nerfed again, he's way more powerful than that, being able to futz with the entire electromagnetic spectrum, mess with esoteric crap like portals, and trivially ignore Thor-class attacks with his shields.

Hazard
05-03-2014, 08:13 PM
After the Intelligentsia arranged for Hulk to be de-Hulked, Banner was running around doing superscience stuff like making portable force fields that let him laugh off Skaar's attacks. I didn't catch much of that particular storyline due to difficulty getting comics in the local area at the time, but I gather he built a number of other notable devices.

So yeah, Banner's got some decent Marvel nerd-cred.

Banner has also done stuff like creating an island of Gamma monsters.


Unless Mags has been nerfed again, he's way more powerful than that, being able to futz with the entire electromagnetic spectrum, mess with esoteric crap like portals, and trivially ignore Thor-class attacks with his shields.

His powers went wonky after the whole AvsX deal. Supposedly because of the Phoenix. He doesn't have the same control or something.

Not sure how he is performing these days. Haven't kept up with the X-Men.

The Drunkard Kid
05-03-2014, 10:49 PM
Can Mags just rip the gamma radiation out of the Hulks?

Anarchist
05-04-2014, 01:21 AM
Current de-powered Magneto is some kind of like his Movie-Counterpart, meaning he can only manipulate metall, and just on a very small scale.
In this fight, he has full acccess to his powers, for obvious reasons.

Tangent Man
05-04-2014, 05:52 AM
Can Lyra & Samson survive a nuke? Magneto could pull dozens of nuclear missiles and take out the lower end Team Hulk members--and not even physically be present.

Miracleman
05-04-2014, 05:58 AM
can't the hulk's in unison perform a sonic clap? I mean if you have all those bricks clapping their hands at the same time wouldn't that overwhelm his shields if they are up before they perform the action? Also,he can still hear thru shields,so wouldn't the sound itself still overwhelm him and KO him?

Another option is that Red Hulk can definitely suck up gamma energy,it's what he was specifically designed for. Wouldn't that enhance his strength considerably to the point where he could overwhelm mag's shields?

Holacik
05-04-2014, 07:40 AM
Can Lyra & Samson survive a nuke? Magneto could pull dozens of nuclear missiles and take out the lower end Team Hulk members--and not even physically be present.

Where is Magneto getting Nukes? The match takes place in the Arena.

Guy Smiley
05-04-2014, 08:13 AM
can't the hulk's in unison perform a sonic clap? I mean if you have all those bricks clapping their hands at the same time wouldn't that overwhelm his shields if they are up before they perform the action? Also,he can still hear thru shields,so wouldn't the sound itself still overwhelm him and KO him?

If a Hulk punch isn't getting through those shields, a bunch of Hulk thunderclaps sure aren't. Remember, thunderclaps are to the Hulk what regular clapping is to a regular guy. Which would you expect to hit harder, a guy punching you, or some applause?

As for the sound, I doubt it will KO him, any more than a laser hurts Vision when he's intangible. He's still visible, and he can still see, both of which indicate that he's interacting with light particles, but lasers just go right through him because comics. Similarly, if Mags can stop a shockwave with his shields, he's very likely stopping all levels of particle motion (i.e. shockwaves and sound) that could harm him.

Surtur
05-04-2014, 08:28 AM
So he's still OP'd to the max... taking iron and stuff out of people? I don't like that... wish he was as he was with external metals or managing people with heavy amounts of metal in their bodies (ie, Wolverine). What can he do currently?

I actually thought it was less to do with iron in the blood and more to do with magnestism so strong it can effect organic matter, but I could be wrong. Though I know he has done the iron in the blood thing before.

The Drunkard Kid
05-04-2014, 08:42 AM
Where is Magneto getting Nukes? The match takes place in the Arena.

Khazan Arena prides itself on the wise variety of concessions offered for discerning patrons.

Anarchist
05-04-2014, 10:49 AM
Another option is that Red Hulk can definitely suck up gamma energy,it's what he was specifically designed for. Wouldn't that enhance his strength considerably to the point where he could overwhelm mag's shields?
Thats an interesting strategy, combine them all into one.
But like I said, he can't use his ability anymore because it backfires on him.

Hazard
05-04-2014, 12:22 PM
Can Lyra & Samson survive a nuke? Magneto could pull dozens of nuclear missiles and take out the lower end Team Hulk members--and not even physically be present.

Hi there.

Matches takes place in the arena. Characters go in only with what is considered standard equipment.

In Magneto's case that means his snazzy suit and helmet.

No one is going around getting things from outside the arena.

That said, he can ring out everyone here just fine.

Anarchist
05-04-2014, 02:13 PM
Speaking about it: The arena allows Space Toss, and is thus *connected* to space, right?
Then Mags can also do crazy things like this
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111118857/3504981-comic+scan+37.jpg

(Yes, he really stole energy from several far away planets. Magnetism is one hell off a crazy powerset)

EDIT: And he lost because he quit. Still stupid, but at least not as stupid as Namor vs Thing.

Pendaran
05-04-2014, 02:14 PM
The problem for Team Not Magneto is the various things they could do as far as some initial quickdraw all take well more time than Magneto thinking "space!"

With that said, I dunno that current damaged powers Magneto could fling them away like that.


Default



Speaking about it: The arena allows Space Toss, and is thus *connected* to space, right?
Then Mags can also do crazy things like this

It doesn't really allow for doing that, no, but it's not any kind of thing that would matter to Mags just space tossing them.

Anarchist
05-04-2014, 02:17 PM
With that said, I dunno that current damaged powers Magneto could fling them away like that.

He couldn't, which is why I gave him full power.

Current Magneto is pretty much restricted to this
http://imagesfile.org/img/2014-03/05/ed5h7fnfzux61s9ctdqjk4d8z.jpg
No more force fields, no more energy manipulations and no more flight.
Even manipulating metall like this wears him out very quickly.

Primetime Harder
05-04-2014, 02:38 PM
Since it was specified that this is full-power Mags, it's barely even a fight. Ring-out at the bell.

Pendaran
05-04-2014, 03:06 PM
He couldn't, which is why I gave him full power.


Ah, well then yeah, he sends them to outer space, to find another race, at fight start.

The Drunkard Kid
05-04-2014, 03:58 PM
He couldn't, which is why I gave him full power.

Current Magneto is pretty much restricted to this
http://imagesfile.org/img/2014-03/05/ed5h7fnfzux61s9ctdqjk4d8z.jpg
No more force fields, no more energy manipulations and no more flight.
Even manipulating metall like this wears him out very quickly.
He probably would have been less drained if he hadn't spent all night watching a Matrix marathon while making his Morpheus costume.

Surtur
05-04-2014, 04:34 PM
He couldn't, which is why I gave him full power.

Current Magneto is pretty much restricted to this
http://imagesfile.org/img/2014-03/05/ed5h7fnfzux61s9ctdqjk4d8z.jpg
No more force fields, no more energy manipulations and no more flight.
Even manipulating metall like this wears him out very quickly.

Interesting, why is Magneto dressing like a Lex Luthor freshly escaped from the Matrix? I'm assuming the poor guy is confused and that worm holes are undoubtedly somehow involved.

Anarchist
05-05-2014, 05:38 AM
Would it even the odds if Space-Toss would be forbidden?

Surtur
05-05-2014, 08:15 AM
Would it even the odds if Space-Toss would be forbidden?

That doesn't stop him from just ripping them apart.

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 08:16 AM
That doesn't stop him from just ripping them apart.

Eight Hulks at once?? I dunno about that.

Surtur
05-05-2014, 08:23 AM
Eight Hulks at once?? I dunno about that.

If he has the capacity to rip one apart then I don't see why 8 would make a difference, he can multi-task. Using his powers on 8 people at once should be a breeze. He can also fly and has a forcefield so even if he couldn't do it all at once, I think he could still manage to avoid/maneuver long enough to get them all.

Of course, I am not talking about the current one I guess who is weaker.

Radical
05-05-2014, 08:34 AM
Banner is quite bright, and depending on the week his alter ego can tap that.

None of them can work out tactics that nullifies Maggie's mobility and range edge. so unless this is the Post AvX nerfing I cannot see the Hulks having a real chance.

Wanna bet?

Green Hulk: "Hey, Ross..." (grabs Red Hulk and Fastball Specials him at Mags)
Red Hulk: "I'M GONNA KILL YOU, BANNER!"

;)


He probably would have been less drained if he hadn't spent all night watching a Matrix marathon while making his Morpheus costume.

I was about to make that joke myself. :p

Tangent Man
05-05-2014, 10:34 AM
Where is Magneto getting Nukes? The match takes place in the Arena.


Khazan Arena prides itself on the wise variety of concessions offered for discerning patrons.

Irma Geddon watching from the stands.

moonknight11
05-05-2014, 10:42 AM
That doesn't stop him from just ripping them apart.

Has Magneto ever ripped apart anyone as durable as the hulks?

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 11:02 AM
I can't really see him ripping them apart, buuut.. the guy has done things like mass paralyze the assembled X-men/X-force/Excalibur in a manner that cut them off from their own powers barring the energy absorbers. If Red Hulk indeed had that part of his shtick switched off/taken away, there's not a whole hell of a lot the Hulks can do about that. It wasn't especially some tangible strength based thing.

Surtur
05-05-2014, 11:10 AM
Has Magneto ever ripped apart anyone as durable as the hulks?

I'd thought there was feats of Magneto doing this to people who are class 80-class 90 bricks. I mean, I've always seen people say Magneto could mess up Superman level beings if he had the speed to react in time. If he can use his powers for that, why not on the Hulks then? Hulks don''t have the speedblitz advantage. Whenever I've seen a "Superman vs Magneto" fight it is all about how he kills him before he reacts or puts up a force field, but if he has time to put the forcefield up..he is going to mess him up

I guess I'm asking exactly how potent we are saying Magneto generally is, offensively speaking.

Anarchist
05-05-2014, 11:12 AM
On top off my head, there is this
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/96764/1708373-1582881_magneto_vs_apocalypse_super.jpg

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 11:47 AM
On top off my head, there is this

That's from an alt reality. We don't really use stuff alt reality versions of characters pull off for the main ones. It's also not super necessary in this case.

Ptrvc
05-05-2014, 01:40 PM
Does Magneto start with his shields?

Because if not Skaar could potentially kill him with the sand beneath his feet before he has a chance to get them up.

Holacik
05-05-2014, 02:02 PM
Does Magneto start with his shields?

Because if not Skaar could potentially kill him with the sand beneath his feet before he has a chance to get them up.

In order to start with shields Mags would need Prep, he doesn't have that here.

Ptrvc
05-05-2014, 02:43 PM
In order to start with shields Mags would need Prep, he doesn't have that here.

Welp then I would say it comes down to a quickdraw between the two characters if Magneto gets the Shield up he can knock everyone out of the ring. If Skaar gets a shot off Magneto is pasted by the Old Power.

big_adventure
05-05-2014, 03:25 PM
Thing is, Erik has tons of feats for beyond-peak-human reactions with his powers, stuff like catching bullets out of the air after they are fired and such. So he's almost definitely winning a quickdraw against anyone here.

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 06:53 PM
On top off my head, there is this

That was Age of Apocalypse, AKA the same continuity where Cyclops' punches-from-the-punch-dimension were able to cut through adamantium.

He might be able to incapacitate a few of the 'weaker' Hulks, but I don't know if he'd be able to survive a simultaneous assault from Savage, Red, and Abomination. In any case, I think the fight will last long enough for Savage to get good and angry.

Edit: Now that I checked out some of Savage Hulk's feats...WOW. The big claim to fame of Magneto's shields is that they stood up to a blast from Galactus, but so has Hulk, as well as blasts from a being powered by the Heart of the Universe. Using magnetic powers on his insides won't do much either, except make him angrier; he's torn alien parasites out of himself that were nasty enough to ravage entire countries. Magneto's force field won't last very long - Savage Hulk has punched through similarly strong force fields before (Nate Grey, Unus the Untouchable) and can dent or bend adamantium. He's also pulled a 'puny god' on Dormammu, and Emma Frost when she was wielding half the Phoenix Force.

With 7 other Hulks to serve as distractions, I'm pretty sure Savage can take Magneto down.

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:13 PM
He might be able to incapacitate a few of the 'weaker' Hulks, but I don't know if he'd be able to survive a simultaneous assault from Savage, Red, and Abomination. In any case, I think the fight will last long enough for Savage to get good and angry.

Can't assault a dude if you're paralyzed and cut off from your powers.

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 07:33 PM
Can't assault a dude if you're paralyzed and cut off from your powers.

Has Magneto done that before?

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-05-2014, 07:33 PM
Heart of the Universe isn't cannon.

I'd also like to know the circumstances surrounding the Galactus blast.

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:35 PM
Edit: Now that I checked out some of Savage Hulk's feats...WOW. The big claim to fame of Magneto's shields is that they stood up to a blast from Galactus, but so has Hulk, as well as blasts from a being powered by the Heart of the Universe. Using magnetic powers on his insides won't do much either, except make him angrier; he's torn alien parasites out of himself that were nasty enough to ravage entire countries. Magneto's force field won't last very long - Savage Hulk has punched through similarly strong force fields before (Nate Grey, Unus the Untouchable) and can dent or bend adamantium. He's also pulled a 'puny god' on Dormammu, and Emma Frost when she was wielding half the Phoenix Force.


I'd like you to take a moment and understand you called the Hulk omnipotent vis a vis saying he can take shots from the HOTU, which otherwise oomphed someone to the point that they wasted the Living Tribunal. Neverminding that Marvel: The End, she no canonical.

You otherwise just cited.. a non canonical miniseries, a comic done for humour in which the Hulk clapped Dormammu from behind and who was otherwise operating at low enough ebb that Doctor Strange could contest him straight up, in his own dimension no less, and otherwise seem to be creating arguments for yourself to argue with.

No, Magneto's claim to fame is not "blocking a shot from Galactus", that feat particularly involved nothing but a fractional reflexive response from Galactus he was barely aware of, along with various other sorts of issues that make it a non performance.

The claim to fame of Magneto's shields are doing things like making a shot from Mjolnir go completely bounce or otherwise handling nukes.



With 7 other Hulks to serve as distractions, I'm pretty sure Savage can take Magneto down.

Who couldn't out of context SMvFL Hulk take down though really?

Let's just take everything you said straight, your argument is that Magneto's shields are powerful on the scale of Galactus, and the Hulk thereby, one presumes, even more powerful?

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:36 PM
Has Magneto done that before?

He did it at Magik's funeral to the assembled X-men, X-force and Excalibur (well, some of it), all together.

edit: and also to X-factor.

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:44 PM
Nate Grey

THat was Nate Grey from when his powers were not working right.


and can dent or bend adamantium.

Thor can mess up secondary adamantium too.

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:46 PM
they stood up to a blast from Galactus, but so has Hulk

Whoops, missed this specific part.

How many shots from Galactus could the Hulk take, do you figure?

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 07:46 PM
Yeesh. Never trusting this site (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/KingAvengerMarvel/news/?a=70954) to provide reliable feats again.


I'd also like to know the circumstances surrounding the Galactus blast.

That one was legit. It was in Secret Wars #9. Galactus was pretty hungry at the time, but it's still damn impressive. Check it out here. (http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Durability/SavageHulkEnergy27SW9.jpg)

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:50 PM
That one was legit. It was in Secret Wars #9. Galactus was pretty hungry at the time, but it's still damn impressive.

A blast from James Rhodes Iron Man made Galactus shake in that issue and rolled him back on his feet such that Spiderman had to leap out of the way. While Galactus at least didn't cry out in pain or otherwise register it, that it actually shook him and pushed him back...

No it's not.

edit: So, after making clear he'd been spending his time until that point toying with the Hulk to make a point, with it being noted the Hulk had been getting angrier/stronger, taking the very edge of a standard zap from the Maestro controlled Destroyer armor, not even the disintegration ray, dropped the Hulk to his knees, badly injured him, and basically made him helpless until a deus ex machine blood link let the Hulk contest the Maestro on a spiritual level instead.

Considering the Hulk can stand up to the Phoenix Force, Galactus, and the Heart of the Universe, low showing, you figure?

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 07:59 PM
While I'm there, did you notice from the out of context a rama respect thread you're talking about, in the stuff with Dormammu, which, again, from a comic done for larfs besides, Umar talks about how she was existingly draining away Dormammu's power? "Took down Dormammu" indeed. That's a quality respect thread what ignores even the stuff in its own context free scans.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-05-2014, 08:01 PM
Yeaaaah, that's what I thought.

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 08:01 PM
Alright, alright, I give. I far overestimated his feats.

I even talked to the biggest Hulk fanboy I know, who said Magneto takes it and that I should listen to Pendaran's expertise.

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 08:03 PM
People are all like "Pendaran, why don't you like respect threads?" And I'm all "I don't know man, it's probably also part of my irrational thing about robots, witches and necromancy."

Pendaran
05-05-2014, 08:10 PM
Just to further add, Reed Richards himself was noting Iron Man's assault was possible because "your armor can withstand the Ion Beams he's projecting" The page before, Reed stated outright that Galactus' power was "almost depleted".

Just so no one thinks I'm talking out of my butt.

http://s9.postimg.org/ealkmz5wv/galactuszap2.png

http://s30.postimg.org/7ze0c82mp/galactuszap.png

Secret Wars 9, for anyone who wants to check for themselves.

So no, surviving a blast from a Galactus who has not fed for months, and who ontop of that has almost no power, and is shown to be so weak that a hit from Iron Man can actually send him shaking and rocking back on his feet (the best you can say for Rhodey is that Reed had monkeyed with his suit some with some of the local tech to improve it, but honestly, even that)...

That's not exactly enduring the Galactus event from Annihilation, right there.

edit: it's also worth noting that a revived Ultron broke the Hulk's leg, as far as other attacks in Secret Wars.

Primetime Harder
05-05-2014, 08:16 PM
People are all like "Pendaran, why don't you like respect threads?" And I'm all "I don't know man, it's probably also part of my irrational thing about robots, witches and necromancy."

What about robot witches casting necromancy? Right out?

Patchmadripoor
05-05-2014, 09:41 PM
616 hasn't but Age of Apocalypse split Apocalypse in two.

Patchmadripoor
05-05-2014, 09:43 PM
Will Skaar's OldPower disrupt Magneto's magnetism?

big_adventure
05-05-2014, 11:20 PM
Will Skaar's OldPower disrupt Magneto's magnetism?

Given that Mags has done stuff like LOLnope reality warping (Muir Island, against Proteus) and undo a giant dimensional rift being powered by hundreds of harnessed Omega mutants, no, I don't really think so.

And in any case, Skaar's Old Power seems to take some time to charge most of what he wants to use it for, and that charge time is going to see him chopped into pieces by his own sword.

The Drunkard Kid
05-06-2014, 03:25 AM
Again I ask, is there anything keeping Classic Magneto from ripping the Gamma Radiation out of the Hulks like it was adamantium?

Primetime Harder
05-06-2014, 04:57 AM
Again I ask, is there anything keeping Classic Magneto from ripping the Gamma Radiation out of the Hulks like it was adamantium?

If there is, it would be his level of control over radiation (probably high), and the amount of it that he can control at once. There's a LOT of gamma radiation in a Hulk. What are his feats for this ability?

big_adventure
05-06-2014, 05:19 AM
If there is, it would be his level of control over radiation (probably high), and the amount of it that he can control at once. There's a LOT of gamma radiation in a Hulk. What are his feats for this ability?

He's done things like undo full-on reality warping on a way-the-hell-past-Hulk scale, he's built a singularity/wormhole and held it in front of himself, he killed a phoenixed-up Jean Grey by stroking her out (as he was critically wounded, no less), and there was the previously-mentioned "undo a Mumbai-and-surrounding-area dimensional warp effect being powered by hundreds of omega-level mutants" thing, that coming after first detecting the energy leading to it.

Primetime Harder
05-06-2014, 05:33 AM
He's done things like undo full-on reality warping on a way-the-hell-past-Hulk scale, he's built a singularity/wormhole and held it in front of himself, he killed a phoenixed-up Jean Grey by stroking her out (as he was critically wounded, no less), and there was the previously-mentioned "undo a Mumbai-and-surrounding-area dimensional warp effect being powered by hundreds of omega-level mutants" thing, that coming after first detecting the energy leading to it.

Sooo...remind me again why Magneto isn't ranked in the cosmic tier?

Blackid
05-06-2014, 05:49 AM
Sooo...remind me again why Magneto isn't ranked in the cosmic tier?

ditto to @Primetime's question... they've morphed Magneto into a cosmic it seems like to me... is he labeled such now? Well not since he was depowered but was he basically at that level at full strength?

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 06:28 AM
Well, out of that, the times he screws around with people with the Phoenix force I tend to consider a bridge too far (and one of those was not actually Magneto, that was Xorn, due to retcons). But really the main thing that keeps Magneto as more of a "cosmic lite" is that he's the world's biggest glass cannon sans shields. You pre empt or bypass or otherwise get around his defenses, his durability is that of.. a guy.

That and he's currently depowered.

Primetime Harder
05-06-2014, 06:38 AM
You pre empt or bypass or otherwise get around his defenses, his durability is that of.. a guy.

That's a pretty big 'if'. Aside from cosmics and speedsters, the list of people who can do that is very short.

big_adventure
05-06-2014, 07:44 AM
That's a pretty big 'if'. Aside from cosmics and speedsters, the list of people who can do that is very short.

Or, just sneak up on the guy and take a pot-shot at him, since he's been repeatedly proven to not just maintain a shield all the time. He's got amazing abilities when he's in control of the situation. I mean, he's a legit team-wrecker, and always has been - the overwhelming majority of his defeats when he was a bad guy came due to PIS. There are really only a few folks in his rarified air for power who share his just-a-guy-ness: Graviton is the other really heavy hitter there, and they are pretty equal sorts of dudes: totally capable of ruining a loaded team of Avengers' day, but equally vulnerable to a punch in the jaw if they're not ready for it.

And as far as this being something he's changed into... not really. Back in the 60's, he permanently warped the whole earth's magnetic field to prevent worldwide telepathy and such tricks. It's just that, until the mid-80's, he was only ever portrayed as a villain, never a hero, so he only tangled with heroes. And, for plot (and just general good-guy) reasons, heroes don't typically do stuff like reality warping or try to replace Mumbai and the surrounding province with an extra-dimensional city full of mutants.

Anarchist
05-06-2014, 08:48 AM
Sorry if I created a stomp, I knew Mags was capable, just didn't realize it was THAT capable.
I guess his only real weakness is that he has no superhuman reaction speed, otherwise he could also wreck a team like the Justice League.....

Surtur
05-06-2014, 09:49 AM
Given that Mags has done stuff like LOLnope reality warping (Muir Island, against Proteus)

I know he is powerful, but this caught my attention. How exactly does Magneto resist reality warping? I guess the answer is "with magnetism" but then reality warping itself should be able to do anything Magneto can and more.


Sorry if I created a stomp, I knew Mags was capable, just didn't realize it was THAT capable.
I guess his only real weakness is that he has no superhuman reaction speed, otherwise he could also wreck a team like the Justice League.....

He does have somewhat increased reaction time, but just having super speed wouldn't let him wreck teams like the JLA. He'd need some rather high end super speed to do that. Even then..there is high end super speed and then there is Wally West..who would still be a huge problem unless Magneto was granted reaction time in the billions of times beyond the speed of light range.

But yeah, most people tend to not see him as not that capable because they are used to him from movies and cartoons where he really just controls metal and nothing else. I mean sure the X-Men cartoon in the 90's had him with a forcefield as well, but he still wasn't exactly doing much besides "control metal make a forcefield" with his powers that I remember.

Unfortunately for some reason people tend to rarely get truly creative with what a person could do with complete control over the EM spectrum, at least in movies and tv shows anyways.

Ptrvc
05-06-2014, 09:57 AM
Given that Mags has done stuff like LOLnope reality warping (Muir Island, against Proteus) and undo a giant dimensional rift being powered by hundreds of harnessed Omega mutants, no, I don't really think so.

And in any case, Skaar's Old Power seems to take some time to charge most of what he wants to use it for, and that charge time is going to see him chopped into pieces by his own sword.

Depends on what he's doing. If he's pulling energy directly into himself that takes time, and some of the bigger stuff such as screwing around with tectonic plates takes time.

Just using it for plain old geokinesis though doesn't take much time at all.

Skaars speed feats put him at least an arrow timer from what I can remember, catching Trickshot's arrows when he revealed himself as Captain America's mole in the last incarnation of the Dark Avengers.

Someone mentioned Magneto as having really high end reaction time though.

Anarchist
05-06-2014, 10:01 AM
He does have somewhat increased reaction time, but just having super speed wouldn't let him wreck teams like the JLA. He'd need some rather high end super speed to do that. Even then..there is high end super speed and then there is Wally West..who would still be a huge problem unless Magneto was granted reaction time in the billions of times beyond the speed of light range.
Don't get me wrong, he'd still have nothing on the Flashes, but beating people like Wonder Woman or Superman would be very much possible for him.

Oh, and him resisting Reality Warping or killing a Phoenixed-out Jean (yeah, it was retconned as Xorn, but still) are in the same category as Hulk doing the same for me, thats just a little out of his paygrade.
Powerful, yes.
Cosmic-Powerful? No.

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 10:03 AM
That's a pretty big 'if'. Aside from cosmics and speedsters, the list of people who can do that is very short.

Thor if he wins the "go first" can drain his shields right away (those two have always been "two guys who can completely screw each other up in a move vs each other"), Reed has fucked him technologically, people who get the drop on him have screwed him up.



Someone mentioned Magneto as having really high end reaction time though.

I'm not especially super convinced he does, a lot of that stuff only has to involve having his powers already going.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 10:19 AM
That and he's currently depowered.

Nah man, he's currently playing out a secret "What-If" ....

It's "What-If Morpheus Was White?"

Tangent Man
05-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Don't get me wrong, he'd still have nothing on the Flashes, but beating people like Wonder Woman or Superman would be very much possible for him.

Oh, and him resisting Reality Warping or killing a Phoenixed-out Jean (yeah, it was retconned as Xorn, but still) are in the same category as Hulk doing the same for me, thats just a little out of his paygrade.
Powerful, yes.
Cosmic-Powerful? No.

Welllll...when Magneto fought Phoenix, he nearly killed her after suffering a serious barrage from Jean. Granted, that was PIS at work in the form of Jean's self-induced "psychic circuit breaker", but he only needed a moment's opening to turn the tables on Jean (magnetically siphoned her life-force)!

Tangent Man
05-06-2014, 12:30 PM
And as far as this being something he's changed into... not really. Back in the 60's, he permanently warped the whole earth's magnetic field to prevent worldwide telepathy and such tricks.

Correction: Late 70's. Magneto pulled off that feat during the Claremont/Byrne years.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-06-2014, 12:44 PM
That whole Kitty pride space bullet feat, where the guy guided it from what? a few solar systems worth of space away? Slowed it down and all, wouldn't that suggest a range in the multi light year, and some form of..above lightspeed reaction time?

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 01:25 PM
That whole Kitty pride space bullet feat, where the guy guided it from what? a few solar systems worth of space away? Slowed it down and all, wouldn't that suggest a range in the multi light year, and some form of..above lightspeed reaction time?

If it did, it would flaringly contradict Magneto not having such things remotely otherwise, which generally we have a term for. There's also the "that took extra prolonged meditation to pull off remotely" bit.

Anarchist
05-06-2014, 01:30 PM
Yeah, that was mags pushing himself to his absolute limit.
Any longer and he would have died surely.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-06-2014, 01:43 PM
If it did, it would flaringly contradict Magneto not having such things remotely otherwise, which generally we have a term for. There's also the "that took extra prolonged meditation to pull off remotely" bit.

indeed, I was thinking it was more a range than a speed feat any way

big_adventure
05-06-2014, 02:16 PM
The space-bullet trick is more a crazy-range energy-manipulation trick combined with some bizarre (and potent) sense ability combined with a stupendous amount of raw power. He caught a planet-buster thing moving at superluminal velocities after it had been travelling for months, and brought it back in days. The power required is insane, and it's a great feat for that. It also gives credence to the idea that Erik could, say, grab an asteroid from the belt and ram it into an opponent in a relatively short period of time (see: prep). But it's not really a reaction-speed feat.

OTOH, he's often done things like catch bullets after they are fired. Even there, it's not exactly cut and dried in the presentation. I mean, he could have had something "ready", or made some kind of wide-area bullet-catching field (which would make it more equivalent to high-end aim-dodging, I guess).

@Tangent Man - 60's, 70's - what's the difference. :-)

big_adventure
05-06-2014, 02:19 PM
I know he is powerful, but this caught my attention. How exactly does Magneto resist reality warping? I guess the answer is "with magnetism" but then reality warping itself should be able to do anything Magneto can and more.



Proteus was stomping a team of X-Men on Muir Island. Mags shut his ass down, more or less taunting him as he did it, saying that even reality warping is just manipulating energy, and thus he, Magneto, can deal with it easily.

Awesome-X
05-06-2014, 02:38 PM
Proteus was stomping a team of X-Men on Muir Island. Mags shut his ass down, more or less taunting him as he did it, saying that even reality warping is just manipulating energy, and thus he, Magneto, can deal with it easily.
This is just my opinion, but I'm going to call SMvsFL/P.I.S. on that. Full on Reality Warping should be above anything Magneto should be able to deal with.

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Being as fair as one might, Proteus, as reality manipulators go, is more grounded in his crap being based out of energy type shenanigans, as opposed to, say, the string pulling of Jamie Braddock, or what have you.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 02:48 PM
This is just my opinion, but I'm going to call SMvsFL/P.I.S. on that. Full on Reality Warping should be above anything Magneto should be able to deal with.

Yet it's consistent with his presentation, especially given Proteus' method of reality warping.

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 03:05 PM
Being even more fair, Proteus, he's certainly powerful and all, but there are any number of reality manipulators rougher/more potent than him.

Being even more fair than that, Proteus is basically an energy being, made of energy, with various limitations.

Surtur
05-06-2014, 03:09 PM
Proteus was stomping a team of X-Men on Muir Island. Mags shut his ass down, more or less taunting him as he did it, saying that even reality warping is just manipulating energy, and thus he, Magneto, can deal with it easily.

So in a nut shell Magneto basically just screamed "I AM RESISTING YOUR REALITY WARPING BECAUSE MAGNETISM!!!" Which..doesn't make the feat any better really. It makes the feat completely damn awesome because he just goes "because magnets and shit!" but..yeah, from a rumbles standpoint not so much.

Pendaran
05-06-2014, 03:13 PM
So in a nut shell Magneto basically just screamed "I AM RESISTING YOUR REALITY WARPING BECAUSE MAGNETISM!!!" Which..doesn't make the feat any better really. It makes the feat completely damn awesome because he just goes "because magnets and shit!" but..yeah, from a rumbles standpoint not so much.

I grant it's bemusingly sketchy, but it's not like Proteus is a cosmic force or something.

moonknight11
05-06-2014, 03:19 PM
I grant it's bemusingly sketchy, but it's not like Proteus is a cosmic force or something.

Yeah it doesn't seem too out there. It's not like he shut down Franklin Richards or a Cosmic Cube.

Surtur
05-06-2014, 03:25 PM
On one hand, I agree, it's no cosmic cube. But I thought Proteus was at least like..a city level reality warper or something? So not high tier, but not exactly someone who can only warp reality a few feet around them either. I don't know, Magneto resisting reality warping of any kind strikes me as weird, but meh. Not a huge deal all in all. Especially since "because magnets" isn't the worst explanation as to why.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 03:31 PM
On one hand, I agree, it's no cosmic cube. But I thought Proteus was at least like..a city level reality warper or something? So not high tier, but not exactly someone who can only warp reality a few feet around them either. I don't know, Magneto resisting reality warping of any kind strikes me as weird, but meh. Not a huge deal all in all. Especially since "because magnets" isn't the worst explanation as to why.

Well he was specifically manipulating reality by using ... energy.

Magneto strolled up, went : "Lawls Magnets and Shit", and slapped him.

The Drunkard Kid
05-06-2014, 04:12 PM
Technically speaking, reality is basically made of interestingly arranged energy interacting in various ways.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 04:33 PM
Technically speaking, reality is basically made of interestingly arranged energy interacting in various ways.

Lawls, magnets and shit.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 04:40 PM
There are things worse than Cthulhu out there. Juggalos are much, much worse.

Primetime Harder
05-06-2014, 04:50 PM
There are things worse than Cthulhu out there. Juggalos are much, much worse.

What about a Cthulhu made of juggalos (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Fv6dbSXo1fI/TQfTE9LgS3I/AAAAAAAAAbM/7zzMsFcooQg/s1600/cthulu.png)?

Also, at this point, I think this thread is officially Hatneto approved.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-06-2014, 04:54 PM
What about a Cthulhu made of juggalos (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Fv6dbSXo1fI/TQfTE9LgS3I/AAAAAAAAAbM/7zzMsFcooQg/s1600/cthulu.png)?

Uncle Jimmy's still around, huh?

That bastard.


Also, at this point, I think this thread is officially Hatneto approved.

Also Phatneto ... he's got his mind on his magnets and his magnets on his mind.

Primetime Harder
05-06-2014, 05:27 PM
Uncle Jimmy's still around, huh?

Nope. He is not. (http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/jj321/desmune12/Supergod/KrishnaVsMaitreya01.jpg)

big_adventure
05-07-2014, 12:46 AM
On one hand, I agree, it's no cosmic cube. But I thought Proteus was at least like..a city level reality warper or something? So not high tier, but not exactly someone who can only warp reality a few feet around them either. I don't know, Magneto resisting reality warping of any kind strikes me as weird, but meh. Not a huge deal all in all. Especially since "because magnets" isn't the worst explanation as to why.

Thing is, Mags is very capable of acting on a far-larger-than-city-sized scale, having done so a bunch. He's also got 50 years of history doing shit to other kinds of energy - even the old marvel universe handbooks (not valid here, just mentioning it to show that this is a consistent thing for the guy) explicitly stated that he could control other forms of energy just fine, just to a somewhat lesser degree than his magnetism.

And as far as it goes, Proteus is about as low-end a reality warper as exists (and who is also a threat). I mean, he's treated the X-Men like a polar bear treats a baby harp seal on several occasions, but then, so has Magneto.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 01:14 AM
@Tangent Man - 60's, 70's - what's the difference. :-)

Let's see...in the 60's, the X-Men were a poorly-selling title that went into reprints before cancellation. The late 70's saw a critically-acclaimed run on the rise toward all-time, insanely popular, fan-favorite status. Magneto was a two-dimensional joke in the 60's, a compelling villain with nuance under Claremont. Plus, Magneto sabotaged planetary telepathy in 1978, while Prof. X was on a sabbatical with Lilandra.

The Sixties X-Men had 5 bland white kids in matching school uniforms, the Seventies ended with the more colorful, eclectic, and vastly beloved "All-New, All-Different" team. Y'know, the one with some guy called Wolverine.

So, A LOT of difference! ;)

big_adventure
05-07-2014, 02:13 AM
Let's see...in the 60's, the X-Men were a poorly-selling title that went into reprints before cancellation. The late 70's saw a critically-acclaimed run on the rise toward all-time, insanely popular, fan-favorite status. Magneto was a two-dimensional joke in the 60's, a compelling villain with nuance under Claremont. Plus, Magneto sabotaged planetary telepathy in 1978, while Prof. X was on a sabbatical with Lilandra.

The Sixties X-Men had 5 bland white kids in matching school uniforms, the Seventies ended with the more colorful, eclectic, and vastly beloved "All-New, All-Different" team. Y'know, the one with some guy called Wolverine.

So, A LOT of difference! ;)

So, in a nutshell: "Lawls, magnets and shit."

Surtur
05-07-2014, 04:46 AM
Sooner or later it will probably be revealed the entire 616 universe is just one giant magnet. Such is the way of things, and this is what gives Magneto total control of the universe. Anything less would be for..lesser men.

Now you see what drove Scarlet Witch so insane. Whenever she'd ask her father a question about the way the world works, she would be met with but one answer. Daddy, how does photosynthesis work? Magnets. Daddy, where do babies come from? Magnets. Daddy, why is my brother looking at me with lust in his eyes? Magnets. Daddy, why is Wolverine out there in the bushes watching us? Because he is a creepy douche, but also magnetism.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 10:27 AM
So, in a nutshell: "Lawls, magnets and shit."

For a reductive reading, sure. Plus, different points of different decades, but I guess they're exactly alike in that way that the 90's and 00's were basically the same decade! ;)

Siriel
05-07-2014, 11:24 AM
Moderator

Reminder that we don't discuss other boards, that includes taking potshots at them.

Anarchist
05-07-2014, 12:16 PM
Reading all this, I think it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that Mags is able to use mind controll through the electrons in somebodys brain or something like that xD

Surtur
05-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Reading all this, I think it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that Mags is able to use mind controll through the electrons in somebodys brain or something like that xD

They actually did that on Smallville, and I think Magneto has actually done it before in comics. There are tiny magnets traveling around in everyone's brains and only Magneto can see/hear them.

big_adventure
05-07-2014, 04:40 PM
For a reductive reading, sure. Plus, different points of different decades, but I guess they're exactly alike in that way that the 90's and 00's were basically the same decade! ;)

Just so you know, I wasn't arguing your stuff... I just thought my post was funny, here in a very dead thread. :-)

seaturkey
05-08-2014, 12:16 AM
Magneto looks at them and thinks, "stroke"

end of battle.

Pendaran
05-08-2014, 05:27 AM
Reading all this, I think it wouldn't be far fetched to assume that Mags is able to use mind controll through the electrons in somebodys brain or something like that xD

He has kinda sorta done that, though the example that comes to mind is him going "magnets!" and removing Stryfe's conditioning of Rusty and Skids. He did it by manipulating the iron in their blood to..

Honestly I was going to type out his justification, but really, he basically shouted "magnets!"

Surtur
05-08-2014, 05:50 AM
Magneto looks at them and thinks, "stroke"

end of battle.

Somewhat correct. He doesn't think "stroke". He thinks "I am going to magnet the hell out of your brain". He bends the EM spectrum in such a way that his thinking that entire sentence actually takes LESS time then his thinking a single word.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 06:21 AM
He has kinda sorta done that, though the example that comes to mind is him going "magnets!" and removing Stryfe's conditioning of Rusty and Skids. He did it by manipulating the iron in their blood to..

Honestly I was going to type out his justification, but really, he basically shouted "magnets!"

So which works better? Magneto shouting "Magnets!" or Odin pointing Gugnir and shouting "Amnesia Dust!"?

Anarchist
05-08-2014, 11:48 AM
Magneto looks at them and thinks, "stroke"

end of battle.

To be fair though, most of them could survive/heal that.

The Watcher
05-08-2014, 11:57 AM
To be fair though, most of them could survive/heal that.
Ah but could they do it before a ten count?

Anarchist
05-08-2014, 12:03 PM
That depends.
I'm not sure how fast Hulk's regen is at it's most consistent, it's kind off all over the place, like Logan's HF (though I'm at least sure that most of the time Hulk's healing factor is better than Wolverine's).

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 12:09 PM
To be fair though, most of them could survive/heal that.

Actually, to be honest, no they could not. The only one with a really insane healing factor is Banner, and even he has been KO'd a lot. Ross's healing factor took at least a half hour to restore his sight.

Tangent Man
05-08-2014, 02:57 PM
Didn't Vector keep Prof. Hulk at bay longer than 10 seconds by flaying him with his "telekinetic" onslaught?

Pendaran
05-08-2014, 03:08 PM
Kinda sorta. The Hulk was still moving forward/able to act, he was just doing so slooowwwlllly and dragging himself along towards Vector by crunching handholds into the floor and pulling himself onwards. That's not really incapacitating the guy. But it's also not super relevant to something like screwing around with his brain, messing around with his internal energies, so forth. I mean, the Hulk lost a ridiculous portion of his flesh and muscles, but his internal organs and etc were intact.

Guy Smiley
05-08-2014, 03:22 PM
What is the most impressive healing feat Hulk's got? I've seen alternate future stuff in which he comes back from being eaten down to a husk by radioactive killer cockroaches, but that's not exactly allowable as it's an alternate universe feat.

Pendaran
05-08-2014, 03:43 PM
The aforementioned bit with Vector frankly. He did get huge chunks of his body basically removed. That he healed at all from that crap is pretty notable.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 03:50 PM
What about the "eventually regenning from having his regen broken in the first place", feat?

Or was there stuff that happened after the Zeus fight that makes that invalid?

Pendaran
05-08-2014, 04:40 PM
It was busted long enough that that's not as impressive as it could be.

wjowski
05-08-2014, 08:14 PM
So basically...

"Magnets, son!"

dupersuper
05-08-2014, 08:33 PM
Magneto looks at them and thinks, "stroke"

Erik likes 'em big and primary coloured, eh?