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Blackid
05-07-2014, 09:13 PM
Two Magic Powerhouse Ego Maniacs go head to head....

who comes out on top? How?

master of read
05-07-2014, 09:19 PM
black adam speed blizt.

Pendaran
05-07-2014, 09:22 PM
Has the Nu one done anything worth noting as far as speed, strength, what have you? Post crisis blitzes and all, sure.

Blackid
05-08-2014, 07:41 AM
black adam speed blizt.

I thought Thor Speed blitzes too?

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 08:07 AM
I thought Thor Speed blitzes too?

Pre-Nu Teth was a close-to-lightspeed speedster. Thor is above a high-end BTer and below a low-end, mach one-ish speedster. So both can blitz guys, just that BA can blitz a lot more of them (including Thor).

If NuBA doesn't have any speedfeats to speak of, well, Thor can probably blitz him, like he does to normals (or even to BT's).

Blackid
05-08-2014, 08:23 AM
Pre-Nu Teth was a close-to-lightspeed speedster. Thor is above a high-end BTer and below a low-end, mach one-ish speedster. So both can blitz guys, just that BA can blitz a lot more of them (including Thor).

If NuBA doesn't have any speedfeats to speak of, well, Thor can probably blitz him, like he does to normals (or even to BT's).

Let's say Speed is equalized... how do they handle hand to hand and magic usage?

Slade1
05-08-2014, 08:29 AM
What feats does Nu Black Adam have?

Surtur
05-08-2014, 08:35 AM
Let's say Speed is equalized... how do they handle hand to hand and magic usage?

Can't speak on the Nu version. As for post crisis, hard to say I guess. Captain Marvel has some insane magic resistance and Black Adam is just an evil version of him(albeit he gets powers from different gods). If he has similar resistance..that could be an advantage against Thor, but I don't know if he does have those feats. He is otherwise more or less physically equal to Thor. He does have the move he did where he slightly harmed the Spectre in no significant way..that might do something, but then it involved charging his body with magic lightning so Thor might have some resistance due to being God of Thunder, etc. Thor also has a plot device hammer though with a bunch of esoteric effects so it's not looking good for Adam with equal speed since I think dimension dumps would be an issue.

If by "hand to hand" you mean Thor doesn't have his hammer on him, then..it's more or less 50/50.

Slade1
05-08-2014, 08:40 AM
Does Post Crisis Adam have the ability to teleport to the Rock of Eternity and then from there to wherever he wants like Billy does? If so, it won't allow him to dimension dump Thor but he may be able to come back from a dimension dump by Thor.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 09:17 AM
Does Post Crisis Adam have the ability to teleport to the Rock of Eternity and then from there to wherever he wants like Billy does? If so, it won't allow him to dimension dump Thor but he may be able to come back from a dimension dump by Thor.

Thing is, Thor can just as easily space-dump the cat into a black hole or something, with equal speed.

The fight is basically two really strong bricks who can fight. And one of them can ALSO manipulate both the weather and tectonic plates and project energy blasts, PLUS he's got a hammer that both hits really hard and blasts really hard, and ALSO adds 99 esoteric effects. It's like speed-equal Thor versus Superman (where Thor wins), only worse, since Adam doesn't have as many powers as Clark.

Hazard
05-08-2014, 10:04 AM
The only thing I can say for NuBlack Adam is that he fought against Ultraman in Forever Evil (the guy who moved the moon) and got his ass kicked. Got a few blows but at the end Ultraman knocked him out and he was still pretty much fine, IRRC.

I'm not sure if they got a rematch or something after that.

butterfingers158
05-08-2014, 10:31 AM
The only thing I can say for NuBlack Adam is that he fought against Ultraman in Forever Evil (the guy who moved the moon) and got his ass kicked. Got a few blows but at the end Ultraman knocked him out and he was still pretty much fine, IRRC.

I'm not sure if they got a rematch or something after that.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/butterfingers158/UMvBA1_zps262c743f.jpg

That's how their first fight ended, Ultraman bled from the nose after this, but it was from the lightning and not the physical blows.

They are currently in the middle of a rematch, which will end in Forever Evil #7

Blackid
05-08-2014, 10:36 AM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/butterfingers158/UMvBA1_zps262c743f.jpg

That's how their first fight ended, Ultraman bled from the nose after this, but it was from the lightning and not the physical blows.

They are currently in the middle of a rematch, which will end in Forever Evil #7

Wait A Minute! They are making my boy look like a punk? Pre-Nu BA was a... well... a BA (Bad A**).... please give some background to this fight.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 10:50 AM
Lex Luthor's like:

"He's got 32 problems and his teeth are them."

Blackid
05-08-2014, 11:08 AM
Lex Luthor's like:

"He's got 32 problems and his teeth are them."

That one got me busting out laughin!!!

byc
05-08-2014, 11:12 AM
Wait A Minute! They are making my boy look like a punk? Pre-Nu BA was a... well... a BA (Bad A**).... please give some background to this fight.

Black Adam decided to attack the Crime Syndicate after they took over. Ultraman took care of Black Adam. Black Adam had to readjust his jaw later on.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 12:13 PM
Lex Luthor's like:

"He's got 32 problems and his teeth are them."

The Adam/Jay-Z mashup is probably my proudest Rumbles moment.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 12:22 PM
The Adam/Jay-Z mashup is probably my proudest Rumbles moment.

I thought it was BB?

Surtur
05-08-2014, 12:24 PM
space-dump the cat

What does this even mean? As in..1950's slang type of cat? Like "that guy is one cool cat"?


The fight is basically two really strong bricks who can fight. And one of them can ALSO manipulate both the weather and tectonic plates and project energy blasts, PLUS he's got a hammer that both hits really hard and blasts really hard, and ALSO adds 99 esoteric effects.

Well the weather and tectonic plate manipulation isn't really going to do a thing to Adam, though the other effects are potent. The hammer grants him the win, though in a hammerless fight it's hard to say who comes out on top. I comment on the hammerless bit because the OP asked how they handle hand to hand and magic, so I took that to mean a fight with no weapons, but whatever magic they can use(plus their physical powers).

Blackid
05-08-2014, 12:43 PM
What does this even mean? As in..1950's slang type of cat? Like "that guy is one cool cat"?



Well the weather and tectonic plate manipulation isn't really going to do a thing to Adam, though the other effects are potent. The hammer grants him the win, though in a hammerless fight it's hard to say who comes out on top. I comment on the hammerless bit because the OP asked how they handle hand to hand and magic, so I took that to mean a fight with no weapons, but whatever magic they can use(plus their physical powers).

Hey "cat" is just as popular now as in the 50's 60's and 70's.... although Black Adam IS from the Egyptian gods which worship cats so "potayto potahto"

But that was really what I meant, h2h - no weapons, no magic, just power/strength.... other way - using all resources available.

Anarchist
05-08-2014, 12:45 PM
though in a hammerless fight it's hard to say who comes out on top
Isn't he much weaker without his hammer?

I remember Hercules getting the better of him without his hammer.

Surtur
05-08-2014, 12:49 PM
Isn't he much weaker without his hammer?

I remember Hercules getting the better of him without his hammer.

Maybe that was a version of Thor who got weaker when he wasn't holding it, though I did not think that was a thing that normally happened. Since, when it comes to pure strength, Thor should still be above Hercules, so it is odd if he got the better of him. Well, I suppose Herc could of used superior fighting skills or something who knows. Since without his hammer he still has that belt that enhances his strength.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 12:49 PM
Isn't he much weaker without his hammer?

I remember Hercules getting the better of him without his hammer.

Thor doesn't lose any strength without Mjolnir. He just loses the majority of his esoteric attacks (teleportation, etc) and a really durable blunt object.

Hercules gets the better of Thor in fights mainly because they've got a similar strength level but Hercules is a better grappler/fighter.

Slade1
05-08-2014, 01:02 PM
Thing is, Thor can just as easily space-dump the cat into a black hole or something, with equal speed.

The fight is basically two really strong bricks who can fight. And one of them can ALSO manipulate both the weather and tectonic plates and project energy blasts, PLUS he's got a hammer that both hits really hard and blasts really hard, and ALSO adds 99 esoteric effects. It's like speed-equal Thor versus Superman (where Thor wins), only worse, since Adam doesn't have as many powers as Clark.

Oh I don't doubt Thor wins, just wondering about that particular aspect.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 01:49 PM
I thought it was BB?

Sure, mostly, but it did involve Black Adam, IIRC:

I'm pretty sure it was Black Bolt against Black Adam. Well-rounded Rumblers were saying "blitz", and a couple of folks came in with "but wait, BB is awesome, he should do better!" Someone, (maybe Pen?) said BB can do a ton of stuff, but he doesn't really have a speed blitz.

I commented that it made Jay-Z lyrics flash through my mind, and left it at that.

Beadle came back, mentioning that he nearly ruined his keyboard with a beverage. :-) More precise lyrics followed.

And forever more, Black Bolt has 99 powers but a blitz ain't one. I only linked it to Teth here because this thread has that guy, not the other, in it.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 01:55 PM
Thor doesn't lose any strength without Mjolnir. He just loses the majority of his esoteric attacks (teleportation, etc) and a really durable blunt object.

Hercules gets the better of Thor in fights mainly because they've got a similar strength level but Hercules is a better grappler/fighter.

To be fair here - Thor has often been dealing with issues when they have tusseled to a definitive outcome. He'd been expressly de-Asgardianized by Odin the first time they fought.

Then there was the Thorcules v. Herculor deal, where Thor was supposed to win according to their plan, but Herc was like "ha, you actually have to, you know, win, I am NOT throwing shit to you." as he laughed. Thor won anyway.

Consistent narrative has always pegged them as close in strength and skill.

Based on feats, though, Thor should dominate any matchup with Herc - he's MUCH faster and has better strength, durability and fighting feats. To say nothing about the plot-device, the energy blasts, the lightning and the flight.

big_adventure
05-08-2014, 01:58 PM
But that was really what I meant, h2h - no weapons, no magic, just power/strength.... other way - using all resources available.

That first part is pretty close to a coin-flip. If there is an edge, it's probably Thor's - he's significantly bigger and significantly heavier than Adam, and is likely a somewhat better fighter.

In the "all resources bu speed equal" bit, well, Thor wins 10/10 there.

AlphaMale
05-08-2014, 07:14 PM
Oh yeah. I remember this fight. BA Adam got his a kicked. Yikes. So is Forever Evil the only book I need for the rematch or is there another?

dupersuper
05-08-2014, 09:32 PM
he's significantly bigger and significantly heavier than Adam

...He is ?

big_adventure
05-09-2014, 01:55 AM
...He is ?

Sure - Thor is a solid 6'6" or more, and weighs something like 700 pounds thanks to denser Asgardian flesh. Adam is supposed to be 6'3", 250 lbs., according to wiki sources. Both of those heights pass the eye test - Thor towers over Captain America, and Adam isn't any larger than Superman/CM-type people. Speed equalized, the bigger, longer, heavier combatant has a significant edge.

Captain Morgan
05-09-2014, 06:38 AM
Sure - Thor is a solid 6'6" or more, and weighs something like 700 pounds thanks to denser Asgardian flesh. Adam is supposed to be 6'3", 250 lbs., according to wiki sources. Both of those heights pass the eye test - Thor towers over Captain America, and Adam isn't any larger than Superman/CM-type people. Speed equalized, the bigger, longer, heavier combatant has a significant edge.

500 pounds is nothing to guys this strong though. That weight difference practically doesn't exist. Also, Adam might be more durable than Thor. Dude has some sick feats in that department as I recall.

Now reach may be relevant, as is hand to hand skill. Also, does Adam retain his flight there?

big_adventure
05-09-2014, 07:40 AM
500 pounds is nothing to guys this strong though. That weight difference practically doesn't exist. Also, Adam might be more durable than Thor. Dude has some sick feats in that department as I recall.

Now reach may be relevant, as is hand to hand skill. Also, does Adam retain his flight there?

I'm leery that Adam is MORE durable than Thor. Thor has done stuff like chill out in suns, take continent-offing shots, etc. I'm not claiming he's more durable, either, just that they are both class 100 bricks, and the difference in durability is extremely small if it exists.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-09-2014, 10:00 AM
I'm leery that Adam is MORE durable than Thor. Thor has done stuff like chill out in suns, take continent-offing shots, etc. I'm not claiming he's more durable, either, just that they are both class 100 bricks, and the difference in durability is extremely small if it exists.

Don't forget the recent "shrugs off a blow that shook the planet they were on".

big_adventure
05-09-2014, 10:23 AM
Dude is pretty consistent across media of being even tougher than he is strong.

Captain Morgan
05-09-2014, 12:55 PM
Black Adman has some crazy stuff too, though. Remaining conscious as people open football field sized tesseracts in his head and stuff.

big_adventure
05-09-2014, 01:20 PM
Black Adman has some crazy stuff too, though. Remaining conscious as people open football field sized tesseracts in his head and stuff.

Exactly my point - they both have crazy stuff, it would be really hard to decisively give an advantage to one over the other.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-09-2014, 01:43 PM
Exactly my point - they both have crazy stuff, it would be really hard to decisively give an advantage to one over the other.

Thor still has his teeth, though.

byc
05-09-2014, 01:53 PM
Black Adman has some crazy stuff too, though. Remaining conscious as people open football field sized tesseracts in his head and stuff.

Is that a nuBlack Adam feat?

Anarchist
05-09-2014, 02:16 PM
Has Adam always had the ability to project Energy or is this a Nu-thing?

Pendaran
05-09-2014, 02:41 PM
Has Adam always had the ability to project Energy or is this a Nu-thing?

Post Crisis Adam has had a decent facility with the lightning, but it's more rolled off his punches, charged them up, or let him light his entire body up, M Bison Psycho Crusher style.

The New Black
05-09-2014, 03:20 PM
Wait A Minute! They are making my boy look like a punk? Pre-Nu BA was a... well... a BA (Bad A**).... please give some background to this fight.

The fight briefly starts in another book (I think the Black Adam Villains Month issue?) and carried over to Forever Evil. NuBA hasn't done so well against NuUltraman. It's not clear how much time passes from the jaw-breaking fight to the rematch starting in FE #6, but Adam's jaw still hasn't healed fully by the end of FE #6.

Matt the Manly
05-10-2014, 01:49 AM
Is that a nuBlack Adam feat?

Im pretty sure this happened in 52

Miracleman
05-10-2014, 10:16 AM
I forget,does Thor's berserker rage which has not been used in years. Does it increase his durability or strength or both?

Pendaran
05-10-2014, 10:46 AM
Warrior Madness is an across the board lift, but it's very rare to come upon him. Thor's been outright murderously enraged plenty of times without it kicking in.

Miracleman
05-10-2014, 01:49 PM
without the speed being equalized. Does warrior's madness give enough of a lift that it can make the battle have a different outcome between Thor and Black Adam?

Pendaran
05-10-2014, 03:25 PM
Not remotely, Adam could still blitz the guy out just fine.