PDA

View Full Version : Grand Regent Thragg vs The Prince of all Saiyans



The Immortal Watch Dog
05-11-2014, 08:18 PM
alright, so this should be a closer "flying brick" vs dbz thread..

Thragg after being run off earth wandering the galaxy stumbles across Vegeta. Naturally two highly competitive and neurotic jerks end up in a brawl for all.

Scenario 1: This is anime Saiyan saga Vegie

Scenario 2: Freiza saga (primary canon, manga) Vegeta

Scenario 3: Vegeta from the anime, during the start of the adroid saga when he went off to become a super saiyan

Scenario 4: End of series Vegeta

hows this go?

Guy1
05-11-2014, 08:50 PM
alright, so this should be a closer "flying brick" vs dbz thread..

Thragg after being run off earth wandering the galaxy stumbles across Vegeta. Naturally two highly competitive and neurotic jerks end up in a brawl for all.

Scenario 1: This is anime Saiyan saga Vegie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Pg0QyfUYZU
:p





Scenario 2: Freiza saga (primary canon, manga) Vegeta

Scenario 3: Vegeta from the anime, during the start of the adroid saga when he went off to become a super saiyan

Scenario 4: End of series Vegeta

hows this go?

Okay, DBZ jokes aside, I think Thragg might be able to take Fight 1 and maybe Fight 2 if he doesn't take too many blasts and keeps it in close combat.
End of Series Vegeta kills him.

Holacik
05-12-2014, 05:27 AM
Okay, DBZ jokes aside, I think Thragg might be able to take Fight 1 and maybe Fight 2 if he doesn't take too many blasts and keeps it in close combat.
End of Series Vegeta kills him.

I'm not sure he's got the speed to survive fight 2.

big_adventure
05-12-2014, 06:40 AM
Or, you know, he can just tell Vegeta that, if Veggie lets him go, he'll come back stronger and be a challenge. Then never come back. At least he won't die. :-)

Holacik
05-12-2014, 08:22 AM
Or, you know, he can just tell Vegeta that, if Veggie lets him go, he'll come back stronger and be a challenge. Then never come back. At least he won't die. :-)

I think you're getting Vegeta and Goku mixed up.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-12-2014, 10:29 AM
I'm not sure he's got the speed to survive fight 2.

Who Thragg or Vegeta? Because while the anime gives them an insane physical boost (both in durability and strength) and Destructive Capacity, they are kinda stagnant as speedsters up until the end of the series

where Thragg is..not overly slow by any means

Holacik
05-12-2014, 10:42 AM
Who Thragg or Vegeta? Because while the anime gives them an insane physical boost (both in durability and strength) and Destructive Capacity, they are kinda stagnant as speedsters up until the end of the series I don't think Thragg's got the speed, because he's going to get spammed with energy attacks at the bell.


where Thragg is..not overly slow by any means

I don't recall Thragg having any decent reflex feats, so if you have them I wouldn't mind seeing them.

Surtur
05-12-2014, 10:47 AM
It essentially depends on how comfortable you feel judging Thragg's speed based on the speed of others of his race. Omni-Man has flown away and dealt with a natural disaster and returned all before Invincible really noticed he had gone. He also speedblitzes and kills the Global Guardians, once of which contained a guy with speed fast enough that he was at a picnic with his girlfriend and was running off to stop crime in between individual words of the sentences he was speaking(or some such non-sense).

Though of course, that is Omni-Man and not Thragg.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-12-2014, 10:52 AM
I don't recall Thragg having any decent reflex feats, so if you have them I wouldn't mind seeing them.

Light speed would be the lowest you could honestly. Considering how insanely ftl their travel time is and how they have to calculate the trajectory of their travels in real time so as to accurately land on a planet where they can take a breath relax and keep flying. Far weaker Viltrimutes exiting ftl and accelerating past the vessel.

Meanwhile you'd be hardpressed to make any valid claims of any incarnation of any DBZ character exceeding hypersonic speeds.

also, I'm kinda glad I could make this thread and kinda understanding of why before we couldn't. in 2005 there was a Brolly vs JLA thread that ended with Matt kinda decided to exile all the DBZ fans into one mega thread and keep them from making threads outside of it an exile that continued well into long after I was gone(I guess Watcher or Sharp lifted the ban?). That's how we were able to contain phenom where other sites..were overrun.

I always felt it was unfair..to us the non biased dbz crowd. But I dunno all the current anime threads seem to indicate history's vindicated that old decision..

It essentially depends on how comfortable you feel judging Thragg's speed based on the speed of others of his race. Omni-Man has flown away and dealt with a natural disaster and returned all before Invincible really noticed he had gone. He also speedblitzes and kills the Global Guardians, once of which contained a guy with speed fast enough that he was at a picnic with his girlfriend and was running off to stop crime in between individual words of the sentences he was speaking(or some such non-sense).

Though of course, that is Omni-Man and not Thragg.


Thragg who is so far above Omni-man and his sons that he can do whatever the hell he pleases to them when they are all mass rushing him?

His reaction to several people with the durability to fly through a planet was to rip the head off one, beat on the other two and violently rip the arm off another class 100 with no effort

This isn't a case where you can claim Omni-man magically has superior reflexes, multiple power ups have passed and he is still far above all of them to where any conflict with him is a one sided slaughter

Surtur
05-12-2014, 10:55 AM
To be honest, DBZ hasn't really been a problem here for a long time. As for Brolly vs the JLA, well, my response to that fight would be two words: Wally West.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-12-2014, 11:05 AM
Wally West.

that thread was before my time, I just recall Matt or another green name heaping utter scorn on the entire fandom and then every was corralled into a series of mega threads, where Icelord, Drunkard Kid and I had some pretty epic moments involving certain infamous across the net trolls.

edit- I was just remarking on my amazement because..the above mentioned users kinda silenced the craziness and kept it all calm but it still wasn't enough to rescind the exile.

Holacik
05-12-2014, 11:24 AM
It essentially depends on how comfortable you feel judging Thragg's speed based on the speed of others of his race. Omni-Man has flown away and dealt with a natural disaster and returned all before Invincible really noticed he had gone. Off panel, we don't know what he did.



He also speedblitzes and kills the Global Guardians, once of which contained a guy with speed fast enough that he was at a picnic with his girlfriend and was running off to stop crime in between individual words of the sentences he was speaking(or some such non-sense). Which is great and all but that speedster has no other feats, and it could just be PIS that he was slain that way (forgetting to use his speed).


Though of course, that is Omni-Man and not Thragg.
Exactly, Viltrimutes can get stronger if they keep pushing themselves, however, they all aren't the same. Individual feats are necessary.


Light speed would be the lowest you could honestly. Considering how insanely ftl their travel time is and how they have to calculate the trajectory of their travels in real time so as to accurately land on a planet where they can take a breath relax and keep flying. Far weaker Viltrimutes exiting ftl and accelerating past the vessel. That's still travel speed, or Thor is getting an upgrade in rumbles.


Meanwhile you'd be hardpressed to make any valid claims of any incarnation of any DBZ character exceeding hypersonic speeds. Man, there's going to be a few DBZ fans that will disagree with that statement. There's claims that Frieza and Goku are LS at the battle of Namek. I don't agree with that but I've seen the argument.


also, I'm kinda glad I could make this thread and kinda understanding of why before we couldn't. in 2005 there was a Brolly vs JLA thread that ended with Matt kinda decided to exile all the DBZ fans into one mega thread and keep them from making threads outside of it an exile that continued well into long after I was gone(I guess Watcher or Sharp lifted the ban?). That's how we were able to contain phenom where other sites..were overrun.

I always felt it was unfair..to us the non biased dbz crowd. But I dunno all the current anime threads seem to indicate history's vindicated that old decision.. I remember that thread. I didn't go in there.




Thragg who is so far above Omni-man and his sons that he can do whatever the hell he pleases to them when they are all mass rushing him? I don't think I've seen him use speed that would put him over Omni-man, scans of such would be nice.



His reaction to several people with the durability to fly through a planet was to rip the head off one, beat on the other two and violently rip the arm off another class 100 with no effort You neglected to mention that Space Racer used his Gun (which could one-shot Viltrimutes) to tear a hole through the Planet first. Also, that's a strength feat, something that Thragg clearly has an advantage over vegita, it's not really a speed feat. Also, I don't think Kid Omni-man is class 100 at that point.



This isn't a case where you can claim Omni-man magically has superior reflexes, multiple power ups have passed and he is still far above all of them to where any conflict with him is a one sided slaughter Why not? Having a speed advantage still won't let Omni-man overcome Thragg's much superior Strength and durability.

Is Omni-man for sure faster then Thragg? I don't know but right now I'm not seeing speed feats for Thragg that put him there.

The Immortal Watch Dog
05-12-2014, 11:41 AM
Exactly, Viltrimutes can get stronger if they keep pushing themselves, however, they all aren't the same. Individual feats are necessary.
[Mark just got manhandled then raped by someone who needed back up to bloody Thraggs nose and restrain him




Man, there's going to be a few DBZ fans that will disagree with that statement. There's claims that Frieza and Goku are LS at the battle of Namek.

They've been making that claim since before I was a rookie, they will continue to make that claim long after all of us have retired. It doesn't make it right, or them any less biased...

as for the Namek saga, yeah I forget who was the originator of the argument here, but I was on the band wagon against Zanku, and the scans we were using to reinforce the argument were pretty shoddy in terms of translation at best and it was abandoned because of it. At least by me, going by actual feats, there;'s no way you can claim that without resorting to calculations which are banned here.



I don't agree with that but I've seen the argument.
I remember that thread. I didn't go in there.

I made the argument, hell I went a step further and argued that statements reinforced by on panel feats are valid. I think we almost got it accepted until Watcher shut the party down and thank god too because our source was tainted.



I don't think I've seen him use speed that would put him over Omni-man, scans of such would be nice.


The entire battle at the end of the war? The coalition needing to get battle beast ahead of Thragg in a starship where..they could send their speedsters and bricks after Mark and his dad with no problem?




You neglected to mention that Space Racer used his Gun (which could one-shot Viltrimutes) to tear a hole through the Planet first.

the energy beam (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3395192-invincible+feat+strength+planet+destroyer+(2).png) seems to have hit first, but they were plowing through the planet while it was actively (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/41559/1612537-byebyeviltrum.jpg) exploding just fine, not to mention the scene shows them doing the lions share of the damage (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bOiu6sFxxdY/TSAyGUGpMGI/AAAAAAAAHWg/1fcSaIki0AY/s1600/INV_075_026-027.jpeg)




Also, that's a strength feat, something that Thragg clearly has an advantage over vegita, it's not really a speed feat. Also, I don't think Kid Omni-man is class 100 at that point.

He was, if I recall right able to draw blood on people Mark tended to have issues with..so I'd say yeah but on the very low end




Why not? Having a speed advantage still won't let Omni-man overcome Thragg's much superior Strength and durability.

I could easily turn this around and say "Thragg laughs at a Gallek gun and when Vegeta Dinosaurus's himself on thraggs torso, he leisurely and slowly pulls his eyes out"



Is Omni-man for sure faster then Thragg?

No

The Drunkard Kid
05-12-2014, 08:28 PM
that thread was before my time, I just recall Matt or another green name heaping utter scorn on the entire fandom and then every was corralled into a series of mega threads, where Icelord, Drunkard Kid and I had some pretty epic moments involving certain infamous across the net trolls.

edit- I was just remarking on my amazement because..the above mentioned users kinda silenced the craziness and kept it all calm but it still wasn't enough to rescind the exile.
Take affront at the accusation that I helped to silence the craziness rather than devouring it to gain its powers.

Surtur
05-13-2014, 12:47 PM
Off panel, we don't know what he did.

I see, I thought he made mention of stopping an earthquake, but meh.


Which is great and all but that speedster has no other feats, and it could just be PIS that he was slain that way (forgetting to use his speed).

I don't know, but as you said he has no other real feats..and Omni-Man was pretty specifically blitzing the entire team, and even that guy failed to react. I think if Omni Man wasn't specifically using his speed against the other members it might just be standard speedster PIS, but that didn't seem to be the case.

Holacik
05-14-2014, 09:49 AM
I see, I thought he made mention of stopping an earthquake, but meh. The issue is, what did he do? Did he save hundreds of people individually, did he stop the actual earthquake? It's too vague to judge.




I don't know, but as you said he has no other real feats..and Omni-Man was pretty specifically blitzing the entire team, and even that guy failed to react. I think if Omni Man wasn't specifically using his speed against the other members it might just be standard speedster PIS, but that didn't seem to be the case.

https://imageshack.com/i/ng7anyp

Meh, one guys is specifically using his speed while the other guy is just standing there.

Surtur
05-14-2014, 12:12 PM
Yeah, but standard speedster PIS is when one person with no super speed hits someone with super speed, in a situation where neither of them are even shown to be actually moving particularly fast. That isn't what we have there. We have two people with super speed, and one specifically using it to blitz these other people.

Holacik
05-14-2014, 12:38 PM
Yeah, but standard speedster PIS is when one person with no super speed hits someone with super speed, in a situation where neither of them are even shown to be actually moving particularly fast. That isn't what we have there. We have two people with super speed, and one specifically using it to blitz these other people.

A speedster with one feat https://imageshack.com/i/n8tq7dj

abmccray
05-14-2014, 10:20 PM
They've been making that claim since before I was a rookie, they will continue to make that claim long after all of us have retired. It doesn't make it right, or them any less biased...

as for the Namek saga, yeah I forget who was the originator of the argument here, but I was on the band wagon against Zanku, and the scans we were using to reinforce the argument were pretty shoddy in terms of translation at best and it was abandoned because of it. At least by me, going by actual feats, there;'s no way you can claim that without resorting to calculations which are banned here.

There's no bias. The reasoning is simple.

- Certain "put all your power into it" blasts are at least near lightspeed. The first we see from a major character is an amped Roshi. He never did that blast against anyone, ever, in the entire series because it took him minutes of real-time just to charge it up. The second was from Piccolo, much later.

- The first time we see someone truly react to stuff of that level/speed, after shot out, is Freeza. SSJ Goku is as fast/faster than Freeza.

- That also coincides directly with speed powerup jumps the characters got, if you count each "I'm so fast I can blitz you" jump from the multi-mach Krillen/Roshi battle.

Therefore, there is reasonable basis, from multiple angles, to say they're around that quick at that time. The only direct arguments against the first statement is basically, "I can't tell the difference between blasts so I'll just say ki attacks are inconsistent speed, and some ki attacks are shown as slower." That ignores that ki attacks are notably different and unique, and consistent according to what they are in particular, and is just an argument from ignorance.

It's not direct 100% proof, but it's a reasonable deduction with a good basis that has nothing to do with "bias." The only character from Dragon Ball in my top 100 favorite characters in fiction would probably be Mr. Satan, for instance. I just happened to read it over and over as a kid, and thus have a lot of random stuff from it in my immediate memory.