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King of Asgard
05-12-2014, 11:51 PM
Instead of using the US military, SHIELD insists that the Avengers should be sent to fight the zombies.

Avengers- Iron Man Mk7
Thor
War Machine Mk1
Hulk

Cap is directing the battle from aboard the Helicarrier.

Remember that the zombie horde is 4 million strong, and that Earth's mightiest heroes will have to kill every single one.

Guy1
05-12-2014, 11:53 PM
Thor could probably just do that ground pound he did against the Frost Giants a few times while Hulk smashes.

Jonathan
05-13-2014, 12:44 AM
Couldn't Thor just summon tornadoes to swoop them all up?

big_adventure
05-13-2014, 12:54 AM
Or just spam lightning...

Thor has LOTS of ways to take mooks, and the mooks can't do a damn thing to him.

King of Asgard
05-13-2014, 09:58 AM
Thor could probably just do that ground pound he did against the Frost Giants a few times while Hulk smashes.

That would only knock them down. The only way to kill WWZ zombies is by headshots. If you've read about the Battle of Yonkers, you'll know that despite having all the gear, the US military got its butt severely battered by the zombies. Explosives (like the ones on Stark and Rhodes' amours), were completely ineffective. This is because zombies do not feel fear. They do not panic like humans (or even Frost Giants) do. They are are not going to be awestruck when Thor does his fancy lightning stuff, or when Hulk says "Smash!!!". They are just going to keep on pushing. When Stark and Rhodes fire their missiles, all they are going to kill are the ones in the immediate blast radius. Many will lose their legs, and will become "crawlers". However, this will only make them more dangerous as they will be harder to shoot. Repulsors will only send them flying, they will not kill any zombies.

A major reason for the US military's defeat at Yonkers was that it assumed it was fighting a conventional army. All the evidence suggests that the Avengers would assume they were aswell. Thor would treat the zombies like Frost Giants or Chitauri: he would hit some with his hammer and ground pound the rest. None of this is lethal to a zombie. Hulk is the same, and as I have already stated, Iron Man's and War Machine's armours would not mortally wound many zombies, either. Of course, the Avengers are not going to be routed like the US military, but the OP states that they have to KILL every last zombie. If all they can do is contain the threat, then I'm afraid the undead win.

King of Asgard
05-13-2014, 10:00 AM
Or just spam lightning...

Thor has LOTS of ways to take mooks, and the mooks can't do a damn thing to him.

Movie Thor never spams lightning. He usually goes in for H2H combat.

Captain Smith
05-13-2014, 10:15 AM
Didn't he use it for the Alien Hole in the Big Blue Sky?

Also, in Rumbles you use your powers. Thor blasts the Zombies and that disintegrates them. Also, if push came to shove the Helicarrier had nuclear weapons - they can vaporize Yonkers.

CrimsonComedian
05-13-2014, 10:20 AM
I think the Avengers should be able to mow through them at first, but 4 million is quite a lot. Endurance will play a factor. How many punches can the Avengers physically throw before they are too tired to move their arms anymore?

MorphyVSFischer
05-13-2014, 10:22 AM
Movie Thor never spams lightning. He usually goes in for H2H combat.

So PIS. People use there most effective powers as Thor isn't an idiot.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-13-2014, 10:42 AM
I think the Avengers should be able to mow through them at first, but 4 million is quite a lot. Endurance will play a factor. How many punches can the Avengers physically throw before they are too tired to move their arms anymore?

Well, they're not actually going to need to throw punches.

The Watcher
05-13-2014, 10:51 AM
I don't see why having Thor summon gigantic torando to scoop them all up and then having Iron Man and War Machine kill them like shooting fish (heads) in a barrel wouldn't work.

CrimsonComedian
05-13-2014, 11:01 AM
I don't see why having Thor summon gigantic torando to scoop them all up and then having Iron Man and War Machine kill them like shooting fish (heads) in a barrel wouldn't work.

Its the energy expenditure that will be the problem

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-13-2014, 11:05 AM
Its the energy expenditure that will be the problem

Based on what?

Jmacq1
05-13-2014, 02:09 PM
Hulk or Thor can solo this. It'd take a long time, but they could solo it. Endurance would not likely be a problem for either of them. Particularly Hulk, who's likely to just keep getting more angry as he mows through the horde.

Not even getting into the massive case of plot-induced-stupidity Max Brooks gave the US Military nor the poor degree of research he did on the weapons available to them and the effects they would produce on the zombie hordes.

Don't get me wrong, it was an entertaining read...but it wasn't remotely realistic.

Dark Soul # 7
05-13-2014, 02:44 PM
That would only knock them down. The only way to kill WWZ zombies is by headshots. If you've read about the Battle of Yonkers, you'll know that despite having all the gear, the US military got its butt severely battered by the zombies. Explosives (like the ones on Stark and Rhodes' amours), were completely ineffective. This is because zombies do not feel fear. They do not panic like humans (or even Frost Giants) do. They are are not going to be awestruck when Thor does his fancy lightning stuff, or when Hulk says "Smash!!!". They are just going to keep on pushing. When Stark and Rhodes fire their missiles, all they are going to kill are the ones in the immediate blast radius. Many will lose their legs, and will become "crawlers". However, this will only make them more dangerous as they will be harder to shoot. Repulsors will only send them flying, they will not kill any zombies.

A major reason for the US military's defeat at Yonkers was that it assumed it was fighting a conventional army. All the evidence suggests that the Avengers would assume they were aswell. Thor would treat the zombies like Frost Giants or Chitauri: he would hit some with his hammer and ground pound the rest. None of this is lethal to a zombie. Hulk is the same, and as I have already stated, Iron Man's and War Machine's armours would not mortally wound many zombies, either. Of course, the Avengers are not going to be routed like the US military, but the OP states that they have to KILL every last zombie. If all they can do is contain the threat, then I'm afraid the undead win.
Having no fear won't really help them when Hulk is running through the lot of them (squishing their bodies to mulch), Iron man and War Machine blow them to smithereens from afar and Thor destroys them in whatever way he wants, god of thunder and all that jazz. It just means that they're dumb enough to run straight into the onslaught of superheroes blasting them to bits.

Hell, even if Iron man or War Machine starts running low on gas they can just fly back to the Helicarrier and restock while Thor and Hulk smash away with impunity, what with the zombies not being able to hurt them.

MindofShadow
05-13-2014, 03:02 PM
Considering how durable Thor and Hulk are alone...

The bites will do nothing to them. It would barely tickle.

They would kill them one by one until they are all dead.

It would take Cap 3 mintues to figure out they need headshots.

Surtur
05-13-2014, 03:10 PM
Its the energy expenditure that will be the problem

Even if that were the case the problem is there are members of the Avengers the zombies flat out can't do any harm to. Even if Thor has to personally kill each one..sooner or later he will succeed.


It would take Cap 3 mintues to figure out they need headshots.

I'd be worried if it took him 3 minutes to figure out zombies need headshots. Ignoring that should more or less be common sense(I live in a world where they don't even exist and even I know headshots are probably the way to go for zombies), 3 minutes is actually a pretty long time if you think about it. At least, a long time for Cap to be sitting there seeing non-headshots fail and having to figure out what to do. His amazing leadership skills have been a tad bit over hyped if he needs that long.

byc
05-13-2014, 07:32 PM
That would only knock them down. The only way to kill WWZ zombies is by headshots. If you've read about the Battle of Yonkers, you'll know that despite having all the gear, the US military got its butt severely battered by the zombies. Explosives (like the ones on Stark and Rhodes' amours), were completely ineffective. This is because zombies do not feel fear. They do not panic like humans (or even Frost Giants) do. They are are not going to be awestruck when Thor does his fancy lightning stuff, or when Hulk says "Smash!!!". They are just going to keep on pushing. When Stark and Rhodes fire their missiles, all they are going to kill are the ones in the immediate blast radius. Many will lose their legs, and will become "crawlers". However, this will only make them more dangerous as they will be harder to shoot. Repulsors will only send them flying, they will not kill any zombies.

A major reason for the US military's defeat at Yonkers was that it assumed it was fighting a conventional army. All the evidence suggests that the Avengers would assume they were aswell. Thor would treat the zombies like Frost Giants or Chitauri: he would hit some with his hammer and ground pound the rest. None of this is lethal to a zombie. Hulk is the same, and as I have already stated, Iron Man's and War Machine's armours would not mortally wound many zombies, either. Of course, the Avengers are not going to be routed like the US military, but the OP states that they have to KILL every last zombie. If all they can do is contain the threat, then I'm afraid the undead win.

Are you suggesting that the Avengers available in this scenario HAS to head shot a zombie? Like, Hulk can't just one-shot a zombie into a pancake, and somehow that zombie pancake is still alive and kicking and a threat to the Avengers?

Thor can tornado vortex the zombies into the atmosphere, and then drop them. Zombies aren't going to survive re-entry.

Iron Man and War Machine can target tons of zombies at the same time for head shots. When their repulsors or weapons don't completely destroy a zombie.

abmccray
05-14-2014, 10:28 PM
That would only knock them down. The only way to kill WWZ zombies is by headshots. If you've read about the Battle of Yonkers, you'll know that despite having all the gear, the US military got its butt severely battered by the zombies. Explosives (like the ones on Stark and Rhodes' amours), were completely ineffective. This is because zombies do not feel fear. They do not panic like humans (or even Frost Giants) do. They are are not going to be awestruck when Thor does his fancy lightning stuff, or when Hulk says "Smash!!!". They are just going to keep on pushing. When Stark and Rhodes fire their missiles, all they are going to kill are the ones in the immediate blast radius. Many will lose their legs, and will become "crawlers". However, this will only make them more dangerous as they will be harder to shoot. Repulsors will only send them flying, they will not kill any zombies.

A major reason for the US military's defeat at Yonkers was that it assumed it was fighting a conventional army. All the evidence suggests that the Avengers would assume they were aswell. Thor would treat the zombies like Frost Giants or Chitauri: he would hit some with his hammer and ground pound the rest. None of this is lethal to a zombie. Hulk is the same, and as I have already stated, Iron Man's and War Machine's armours would not mortally wound many zombies, either. Of course, the Avengers are not going to be routed like the US military, but the OP states that they have to KILL every last zombie. If all they can do is contain the threat, then I'm afraid the undead win.

The Battle of Yonkers was actually PIS to the highest degree. It ignored actual military tactics, and also what military weaponry is actually capable of. It took away the concussive force of the explosives, it ignored that tanks could just roll over zombies until they ran out of gas, it ignored that zombies without limbs or whose bodies are all ripped apart would not be mobile at all, and that fallen zombies would work as barracades for the other zombies.

Not only is there no way for the military to have lost the Battle of Yonkers as presented in the book in the way it was presented, there is no feasible the zombies would have got to those numbers as described in the books in the first place (fake vaccines wouldn't matter at all, for instance, because people would still naturally avoid being bitten, especially with full knowledge of them). A much smaller squadron with a few tanks and a very small amount or air support would feasibly win that on their own. The Avengers would actually count as that.

Radioactive Zombie
05-14-2014, 11:00 PM
That would only knock them down. The only way to kill WWZ zombies is by headshots. If you've read about the Battle of Yonkers, you'll know that despite having all the gear, the US military got its butt severely battered by the zombies. Explosives (like the ones on Stark and Rhodes' amours), were completely ineffective. This is because zombies do not feel fear. They do not panic like humans (or even Frost Giants) do. They are are not going to be awestruck when Thor does his fancy lightning stuff, or when Hulk says "Smash!!!". They are just going to keep on pushing. When Stark and Rhodes fire their missiles, all they are going to kill are the ones in the immediate blast radius. Many will lose their legs, and will become "crawlers". However, this will only make them more dangerous as they will be harder to shoot. Repulsors will only send them flying, they will not kill any zombies.

Remember that something in Brooks' zombies changes it so that they're seemingly invulnerable to anything but a headshot or a direct explosion - tank shells, artillery, JDAMs, airstrikes, machine gun fire didn't work. Being stuck under crush depth at the deepest parts of the ocean doesn't kill them either

That said, Hulk will be effective - there's a later chapter describing a massive ex-wrestler who'd regularly smash zombies with his bare fists and would pick up other zombies to beat other zombies with. Hulk is that guy, on, uh, steroids.

Jmacq1
05-15-2014, 08:41 AM
Remember that something in Brooks' zombies changes it so that they're seemingly invulnerable to anything but a headshot or a direct explosion - tank shells, artillery, JDAMs, airstrikes, machine gun fire didn't work. Being stuck under crush depth at the deepest parts of the ocean doesn't kill them either

That said, Hulk will be effective - there's a later chapter describing a massive ex-wrestler who'd regularly smash zombies with his bare fists and would pick up other zombies to beat other zombies with. Hulk is that guy, on, uh, steroids.

The Zombies were not at all described as INVULNERABLE to those things. They just weren't a guaranteed "kill" since there -might- be a head around that could still bite someone. While Zombies did seem to have a few oddities in terms of durability (most notable was the whole crush depth thing), most attacks seemed to damage them just fine. It's just that for-sure putting them down was a little more difficult.

And as noted above, it was also a colossal research failure on Max Brooks' part because those weapons would've been turning large chunks of zombies into chunky salsa or just plain ashes.

And yeah, World War Z definitely involved a whole lotta PIS on the part of pretty much the entire world.

Cleric of Hell's Brigade
05-15-2014, 08:56 AM
Yeah, the Battle of Yonkers was a joke. Poorly written tactics and poor understanding of weaponry. A single tank could simply keep rolling forward without even using ammo and could kill hundreds, literally hundreds under its treads. And no, the zombies couldn't overturn one or stop it cold through numbers.

And that's without the ammo that can reduce buildings to rubble.

If you honestly think about it, unless it was literally an over the night everyone gets infected thing, any competent military force just sends in tanks and armored vehicles and that's kind of the end of it for any zombie horde. Shawn of the Dead had it right. Panic for a day, maybe two, and then it gets stopped cold and fixed.

Radioactive Zombie
05-15-2014, 06:39 PM
yo guys you are aware the entire Battle of Yonkers is a metaphor for all the shit the US military buys that wind up being ineffective or defeated by cheap methods. Pretty much any zombie movie requires humans being brain-dead stupid to work.

That said, it really shouldn't take too much time, especially with lightning.

MorphyVSFischer
05-16-2014, 01:20 PM
yo guys you are aware the entire Battle of Yonkers is a metaphor for all the shit the US military buys that wind up being ineffective or defeated by cheap methods. Pretty much any zombie movie requires humans being brain-dead stupid to work.



So PIS? Just because its a metaphor and standard in zombie fiction doesn't give it a pass.

Postmania
05-16-2014, 01:48 PM
Ignoring that should more or less be common sense(I live in a world where they don't even exist and even I know headshots are probably the way to go for zombies), 3 minutes is actually a pretty long time if you think about it.

Captain America might not know about zombies, he comes from the 40s.

He'll do it when the first zombie gets up after being kicked in half though, so a lot less than 3 minutes.

And yeah, Iron Man and War Machine could do this themselves, given time.

King of Asgard
05-16-2014, 02:17 PM
Yeah, the Battle of Yonkers was a joke. Poorly written tactics and poor understanding of weaponry. A single tank could simply keep rolling forward without even using ammo and could kill hundreds, literally hundreds under its treads. And no, the zombies couldn't overturn one or stop it cold through numbers.

And that's without the ammo that can reduce buildings to rubble.

If you honestly think about it, unless it was literally an over the night everyone gets infected thing, any competent military force just sends in tanks and armored vehicles and that's kind of the end of it for any zombie horde. Shawn of the Dead had it right. Panic for a day, maybe two, and then it gets stopped cold and fixed.

A line of tanks would not get very far if they charged forward. Very quickly, the treads would get clogged up with zombie bodies, rendering the tanks useless. A tank simply isn't designed for this sort of work. The fact that a tank can destroy buildings or other tanks is irrelevant. They are not designed for anti-infantry combat. This issue is exaggerated when fighting an unfeeling, unthinking horde of millions.

The reason why the military easily crushes the zombies in Shaun of the Dead is because it is a satire of zombie flicks. It was merely appealing to the commonly held opinion regarding zombie apocalypses, namely that it would be comfortably brought under control by the authorities.

Hiromi
05-16-2014, 02:26 PM
Battle of Yonkers is about the same level of accuracy as Zombie writers usually present actual Militaries with, IOWs, not much. I recall at one point reading the Battle of Yonkers scene where an AH-64 tried to tilt its rotors into the horde... which may very well be on of the most unintentionally hilarious bits of shlock I've ever read(but then I was in aviation units for 6 years).


A line of tanks would not get very far if they charged forward. Very quickly, the treads would get clogged up with zombie bodies, rendering the tanks useless. A tank simply isn't designed for this sort of work. The fact that a tank can destroy buildings or other tanks is irrelevant. They are not designed for anti-infantry combat. This issue is exaggerated when fighting an unfeeling, unthinking horde of millions.

Yeah you can go ahead and stop there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk6wxBQ3f_0

We've had anti infantry cannon rounds since we were using actual horse transported cannons
We also have artillery, air to ground, ground to ground, and a variety of other versions of it, we've had a long time to come up with anti horde techniques considering that the two countries the US has long been sparring with are China and the USSR.

I also find the assertion that human corpses are going to stop a 70 ton piece of steel being propelled by a 1500 horsepower jet engine because they "gum up the treads" to be rather hilarious. During the Korean war the opposition actually tried to human wave Tanks to death, there were examples of Tank pairs that would simply use their hull mounted Machine guns to simply "hose each other off," humans do not stop tanks without specifically made anti tank weapons, period. Humans were also not all that occasionally run over during WW2(likely, hopefully, they were mostly already dead), the end result was typically described as similar to "red jelly." I've actually heard combat engineers, who are trained at actually stopping tanks, comment on this scenario and the prevailing opinion is that running out of gas is a larger concern than treads getting gummed up.

People can also stop with this "Only the head shot works!" nonsense as decapitation and immolation worked just fine throughout the book, a Zombie with a severed spine was just as crippled as a human with the injury.

A company of combat engineers could have set up a landscape of concertina wire and claymores that would have absolutely dominated Yonkers in a matter of hours

Basically Zombie stories need to stick with Walking Dead method and just not tell how the Zombies destroy the military with any detail whatsoever, ESPECIALLY the shambler variety

The Drunkard Kid
05-16-2014, 02:38 PM
Hulk? Thor?

Can a WWZ Zombie actually harm Iron Man or War Machine?

shades of eternity
05-16-2014, 02:56 PM
I want to see a sonic clap from hulk mow through the waves :D.

Radioactive Zombie
05-16-2014, 04:48 PM
Blargh

The tanks had the anti-personnel shots and those were the only thing the tanks could use that were actually effective, and I remember the soldier being interviewed saying something about mines detonating alerting them to the incoming horde. And I vaguely recall something about wire being set up.


So PIS? Just because its a metaphor and standard in zombie fiction doesn't give it a pass.

It doesn't, but I was talking about the complaining about the scene, which is sorta irrelevant to four superheroes maiming zombies.

Content: does Cap ever get fucking tired? The real issue with him would be his shield getting stuck in a mob.

Hiromi
05-16-2014, 04:58 PM
Again, them having any normal sabots is supreme PIS, not having a supply chain or ammo depot present even moreso, like they just waltzed in and started shooting without thinking, durr, we might need to reload and refuel at some point, this is CONUS, they have normal bases within driving distances. Brooks basically just took the old joke about old generals and latched onto it as his entire justification for the scene with no regard whatsoever for actual doctrine(and I'm not talking about some half hearted wire, I'm talking about properly set up triple Concertina Coils, which when set up properly can stop tanks dead in their tracks).

And I don't believe Cap gets tired, or at least not the way a normal human does, keep in mind Cap 2 opened with him running 13 miles in half an hour(to put this in perspective that comes to about 3 minutes 15 seconds per mile, the world record for a single mile is 3 minutes 43 seconds), which is essentially a non stop dead sprint without ever slowing down, and he was barely breathing hard

Cleric of Hell's Brigade
05-17-2014, 05:29 AM
A line of tanks would not get very far if they charged forward. Very quickly, the treads would get clogged up with zombie bodies, rendering the tanks useless. A tank simply isn't designed for this sort of work. The fact that a tank can destroy buildings or other tanks is irrelevant. They are not designed for anti-infantry combat. This issue is exaggerated when fighting an unfeeling, unthinking horde of millions.

The reason why the military easily crushes the zombies in Shaun of the Dead is because it is a satire of zombie flicks. It was merely appealing to the commonly held opinion regarding zombie apocalypses, namely that it would be comfortably brought under control by the authorities.

Clog up? Not very likely. You do understand that 50+ tons moving at 50+ miles an hour.....doesn't really stop for anything not bigger than itself, right? And tank treads....don't really clog down so much. And tanks are well used against infantry forces. Ask WWII folks about that. Tanks can very easily be used against unarmed groups of people, which is what zombies are. And yes, being able to blow up groups of people with a single shell does come into play. Concussive force + fire damage + shrapnel means lots of things get ripped apart.


95% of zombie movies play to the overhyped nature of zombies, and the underselling of every major military force in the world. Zombie movies play to the common movie stereotype that all militaries are incompetent and all governments will panic at the first sign of trouble.

abmccray
05-17-2014, 06:59 AM
Zombie movies also forget things like basic human/animal nature.

People avoid bums, and naturally dodge anyone lunging at them. People stay in places with closed/locked doors throughout most of the day. People generally band together when a central outside danger comes into play. People know what rabies is, so anything with similar symptoms will automatically cause people to avoid being bitten.

(Slow) zombie media throws all of this out of the window, and it's only because the creators want so badly to get to the apocalyptic plot.

Even Night of the Living Dead, which pretty much says "people win when they aren't being stupid" as the point of the movie, has a giant handwave at the beginning. Where the heck did all the zombies come from in a remote area around a remote farmhouse, on day 1 at the zero hour? The implication was that they were around a graveyard, I guess, but a zombie can't get out of a casket, nor would it want to because of nothing to draw it out.

World War Z was terrible about this, because it inexplicably jumped to "millions of zombies everywhere" with vague handwaves of "fake vaccines" and such (ok, people would still not want to get bit), and then handwaved how weapons worked and everything else. As far as the battle goes, this is no problem at all for this group, as Hulk can just walk through them and Thor can keep tornadoing and blasting them.

However, if Max Brooks wrote it, Hulk would eventually get tired from being dogpiled, and the lightning would "not work because their bodies don't conduct electricity," and tornadoes "would not work because it just flings them around even though tornadoes rip people apart from debris and break every bone in their bodies"

Hiromi
05-17-2014, 08:05 AM
Brooks did write in his survival guide that enough electricity would kill a Zed if it fried his brain, lightning would clearly fit the bill.