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View Full Version : Macross human civilisation vs Stargate SG1



BitVyper
04-30-2014, 05:11 PM
The entire human (and also zentradi I guess) civilisation (circa some time around Macross Plus) is transplanted from Macross into the Stargate universe, replacing Stargate Earth with their own (plus their other inhabited planets, for that matter). How do they perform against the various adversaries the SGC encountered? The other Stargate worlds still exist, so things like the Ancient weapon are still out there.

Importing the last few posts from the old board:


19 years isn't terribly long, especially considering they already had AI technology far more sophisticated than Replicator AI during Plus, even with pre-totally-self-determined Sharon Apple. Furthermore, part of the reason the replicators got as bad as they did was because of SG-1's interference leading to humanforms. The regular ones are still nasty, but Macross also has significantly more advanced and powerful solid-ammo weapons, which are the closest thing to an achilles heel the replicators have in this stage, as well as a military that can actually field significant enough numbers to make a war out of it. That gives them a lot more time than SG-1 had, and just because they have no super-scientists doesn't mean they have no scientists period; we are talking about a civilisation that reverse engineered a ton of alien tech, built a near-perfect mental interfaces for a test-fighter, and got spacefold tech condensed down to a size where something the size of an airplane could use it. They are not technologically inept, and a war with the replicators will get them focusing all their efforts on AI research. Given that it only took 19 years to get to Frontier levels, and they already have produced an extremely sophisticated, totally independent AI, it really shouldn't take them that long.

I actually kind of doubt the replicators' ability to assimilate spacefold tech. That's on par with the stargates themselves, and I don't recall replicators ever managing to assimilate any ancient tech or even deal with it particularly well.

Honestly, I feel Macross' scientific achievements are being massively understated here just because they don't have one or two specific super scientists. They made enormous strides for their whole society in incredibly short spans of time.


And 50 years prior to Frontier the human race was reduced to maybe 6 digits. Probably Five.

And that point isn't what Frontier can do, the point is arguing against the assertion that they somehow suck at dealing with AI. That lacking a super scientist they are gonna get jacked over. Which also kinda ignores their massive tech upgrades even over the Zentradi tech they got access to. They went from the VF-1 to the VF-19 inside thirty years. And the 19 went from a prototype in Plus to active service in Seven inside a few years.

Course, that requires admitting Seven exists.


Yeah like, lets not forget that for all her genius, Carter's best feats mostly involve using alien tech that already existed more or less as-is. She was one of many people working on actually reverse engineering the stuff to a level that the tech readily available to her could reproduce. In ten years of SG-1, the main things that humans accomplished in terms of actually creating new tech are actually... pretty much the same as what Macross humans did in ten years after finding the SDF-1, and Macross humans did that all from a single ship without a regular stream of new tech and incidental acquisitions from ancient librarys and etc etc etc. The high end stuff SG-1 humans had at the end of the series were gifts from the Asgard, and very very little of the tech SG-1 had acquired over the years was available in a form that could actually be used by society at large, meaning it was still mostly a whole lot of blackboxes that couldn't be reproduced easily.

Edit: For that matter, Carter had a lot of help for her best feats; she never would have gotten the ancient galaxy-rewriting device running in enough time without the help of both Baal and... whatever her dad's Tokra name was. She has some really good high end feats, but she's not Reed Richards; the things she does are largely believable based on the circumstances.

Edit: Although now I kind of want to see what Isamu Dyson's life is like if Sharon Apple takes over the Replicators.


I'm not saying the scientists of Macross suck, I'm saying that they needed a believable amount of time to figure most things out. As stated, it took humanity 10 years to retrofit the SDF-1 and even then they made some major mistakes in the design (remember the gravity pods tearing themselves from the ship in the first episode?).

Most of their accomplishments occured after months and years. Give them a number of months and I'm sure they can do it. I don't think they'll have months.


It took the SG-1 humans a similar amoutn of time to Retro-engineer their space ship. While having a constant influx of alien technology and help from the ir offworld allies.

macross Humanity had a single non-functional booby trapped ship land in their front yard and turned it into a fully functional ship. And then made it do things it wasn't designed to do. Oh, and made fightercraft outright superior to the designs of an alien species that build everything for war.


The Macross folk clearly have talented engineers and weapons designers that had to try to figure out solutions to a couple of problems they knew of for 10 years. Specifically, how do we defend ourselves from alien attack and how does a human fight a 60 foot tall alien?

Results were mixed and for all their effort, they still could not prevent the razing of the Earth that nearly caused the near extinction of the human race. They didnít beat the Zentradi by scientific and military means, and truth to tell, would not be able to beat that same Zentradi fleet by scientific and military might alone even with the Frontier tech. Give them years of preparation and they might possibly find a solution for Replicators, but that is far from a certainty. The Replicators are after all the products of Ancient technology and a scourge that destroyed the Asgard homeworld and nearly destroyed the population of two separate galaxies (not counting the Asurans, whom plagued a third galaxy on their own).

Iím not dissing the Macross folk. They did some great things with what they had and made great progress over a period of 50 years. However, they lack the elite experts to pull off the swift scientific miracles that are sometimes needed when dealing with super science on the level of the Replicators.

One more thing, Replicators improve the technology of any systems they take over. Can you imagine what a Replicator boosted Macross cannon can do?


So, how does Macross Earth get along with the civiizations that were friendly to Stargate Earth, such as the Tollan, Nox and Asgard? What would their opinions be of them and vice versa?

I left out nested quotes so that I could retain my sanity. Sorry, Basara.

Hiromi
04-30-2014, 05:44 PM
I resent not being quoted Bit, I see how it is!

Anyway Zentradi fleets number in the 5 million capital ships range, and as Yeo posted(also not quoted, harumph!) they have like three of those post SDF. I still don't see how existing powers in the SGU can really cope with those kinds of numbers(these are all multi kilometer ships and the full fleets can reduce a planet to a burned out husk in seconds, and this wasn't death of a thousand cuts, single beams from the Zen main guns were one shotting cities)

Basara
05-02-2014, 08:26 PM
I left out nested quotes so that I could retain my sanity. Sorry, Basara.

Why apologize for keeping your sanity?


Anyway Zentradi fleets number in the 5 million capital ships range, and as Yeo posted(also not quoted, harumph!) they have like three of those post SDF. I still don't see how existing powers in the SGU can really cope with those kinds of numbers(these are all multi kilometer ships and the full fleets can reduce a planet to a burned out husk in seconds, and this wasn't death of a thousand cuts, single beams from the Zen main guns were one shotting cities)

Even the greatest boxer ever cannot hit an illness. That's pretty much what the Replicators are, a plague. They infect, multiply quite rapidly, improve what they have taken, and use it to take more. To a war culture like the Zentradi whose favorite tactic is hit target repeatedly, they'll get devoured. Yeoman was correct, the best chance the Macross folk have is if somehow their computer guys can somehow take control of the Replicators.

I cannot see that happening considering a) at the time of Plus, their only instances of programming A.I. (Sharron Apple and the Ghost) turned on them immediately and b) the Replicators were created from Ancient tech, which is far more advanced even than Macross Frontier tech.

Hiromi
05-02-2014, 09:09 PM
Unless the Macross civs follow the SG univere's step pretty much to the letter it's unlikely the Replicators ever come to the Milky Way, or at least they don't for a long long time. The Stargate Human's link to the Asgard pretty much WAS SG1. Since they obviously don't need to make allies like SGC did it's highly unlikely they proactively seek out Thor, and in all likelyhood Thor is called back to his own galaxy in due time, SG1's timing was really perfect.