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heretic
05-13-2015, 03:26 AM
Good news, J. Jonah Jameson has eased up on his Anti-Spider-Man Crusade a bit.

Bad news, it is because he has a new target.

How effective is JJJ's Full Court Bad Press thing on the following? And what (if anything) can the target in question do about it if they remain in-character? Thor Odinson
The Batman
Empowered
Iron Man
Superman
Sailor Moon

FrenchGemini
05-13-2015, 05:52 AM
Does it happen currently or at the start of their careers? Batsy just doesn't give a f**k, what with wanting to be as shrouded in mystery as possible. Post-Crisis Superman just does his usual thing, making JJJ's campaign inefficient. New 52 publicly beats his own benchpress record to make first page of every other newspaper and overshadow Jameson's daily "Superman: Threat or Menace" article.

Shellhead
05-13-2015, 06:56 AM
There is an old saying, "Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel."

Thor: Marvel tends to avoid this angle, but it seems like it would be easy for JJJ to whip up a frenzy against Thor's pagan background. The religious right should be very uneasy about such a powerful guy walking around like a living repudiation of their own faith.

Batman: This would be about the same as going after Spider-man. You've got a sneaky vigilante with a vaguely creepy motif, only in this case, it's also somebody who spends a lot of time beating up the mentally ill. On the other hand, Bruce could just buy the Daily Bugle if he got sufficiently annoyed.

Iron Man: JJJ could potentially exploit some public uneasiness with the idea of a super-powered corporate employee flying around fighting crime. But Americans tend to be forgiving of corporate activities as long as they provide decent jobs to the community, don't screw over their customers, and don't get caught in extreme scandals that hurt the stock market.

Superman: For purposes of this situation, is Superman a local hero? Meaning, is Metropolis merged with NYC in this scenario? If so, any bad press about Superman in the Daily Bugle will be offset by more favorable press at the Daily Planet, by Clark, Lois, and Jimmy. Even without the Planet, this is a different deal from Spider-man, because Superman doesn't wear a mask, and he doesn't have that unsavory pagan background like Thor. At worst, JJJ can exploit general fears about superhumans, unless maybe he somehow discovers that Superman is an alien. Then there would be plenty of room for speculation about UFOs, potential invasion, etc.

FrenchGemini
05-13-2015, 07:30 AM
At worst, JJJ can exploit general fears about superhumans, unless maybe he somehow discovers that Superman is an alien. Then there would be plenty of room for speculation about UFOs, potential invasion, etc.

Depending on the version, isn't Supes being an alien a matter of public record? Depending on the version again, that will either just add fuel to the existing fire (in a version like what we'll see in "Batman v Superman") or do nothing due to Superman's nice guy reputation (Post-Crisis)

Sharpandpointies
05-13-2015, 08:25 AM
There are four main reasons why JJJ's campaign against Peter actually bears a little fruit:

1. Peter isn't big, either in power or in impact on the world;
2. Peter keeps his identity as secret as he can, not giving anyone anything, so rumors hit harder;
3. Peter can't really stop JJJ in any way;
4. The populace of the Marvel world is rather paranoid and suspicious of metas.

For Thor, Superman, Iron Man and Batman, all four of these things are just not the case.

Thor, Superman and Iron Man aren't likely to suffer from any attempt to brand them as criminals. Even if people start to believe it (bloody unlikely), Thor isn't likely to give a crap and anyone with the kind of oomph to be capable of bringing him in (haha...) knows the truth. Like Thor, Iron Man is national/global, not some vigilante in a single city, and Stark will just do his own media relations spin on things...or not really care that the Daily Bugle's readership thinks he's horrible. Or buy the Bugle outright. Batman doesn't care and, should he so desire, can do the same thing as Stark (Wayne can buy the paper and have it focus on 'more important things than some lunatic running around in a bat suit'). Superman is in pretty much the same situation as Thor (even better, given he flies around helping out disaster victims or whatever) - a single newspaper going nutso on his rep is going to be met with a lot of derision and outright hostility, especially given the general DC populace attitude (Post Crisis, don't know about NuDC) of 'Superheroes make the world nice'.

Can't speak for Empowered or Sailor Moon.

The Drunkard Kid
05-13-2015, 09:11 AM
Empowered barely notices, since her press is pretty godawful, especially with one or more of her teammates more or less publically blaming her for the deaths of several heroes. Actually, considering how much her life sucks, the fact J.J. is calling her a menace instead of a slut might actually be considered a marked improvement on her public image.

Sailor Moon probably bawls her eyes out, but she generally doesn't interact with the public outside of saving them from monster attacks in progress, so it's not really much of a problem for her. The Bugle probably will try a hasty rebranding once she rules over almost the entirety of humanity, though, unless it moves to Nemesis alongside the Black Moon Family.

Wavemaninawe
05-13-2015, 11:54 AM
i cant recall that Jameson ever paid any attention to the Punisher. Perhaps he has been too caught up in his fanatical anti-Spider bigotry. But i could totally see him have a field day when aattacking the Punisher. Not that Frank would actually give a damn about his own public image.

I would love to see him run a smear campaign against Adam West Batman though. Especially since AW would try to reason with and appeal Jonah.



Oh... And Jesse Custer. Especially During that time when he served as a town marshall.






There is an old saying, "Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel."

Thor: Marvel tends to avoid this angle, but it seems like it would be easy for JJJ to whip up a frenzy against Thor's pagan background. The religious right should be very uneasy about such a powerful guy walking around like a living repudiation of their own faith.

Batman: This would be about the same as going after Spider-man. You've got a sneaky vigilante with a vaguely creepy motif, only in this case, it's also somebody who spends a lot of time beating up the mentally ill. On the other hand, Bruce could just buy the Daily Bugle if he got sufficiently annoyed.

Iron Man: JJJ could potentially exploit some public uneasiness with the idea of a super-powered corporate employee flying around fighting crime. But Americans tend to be forgiving of corporate activities as long as they provide decent jobs to the community, don't screw over their customers, and don't get caught in extreme scandals that hurt the stock market.

Superman: For purposes of this situation, is Superman a local hero? Meaning, is Metropolis merged with NYC in this scenario? If so, any bad press about Superman in the Daily Bugle will be offset by more favorable press at the Daily Planet, by Clark, Lois, and Jimmy. Even without the Planet, this is a different deal from Spider-man, because Superman doesn't wear a mask, and he doesn't have that unsavory pagan background like Thor. At worst, JJJ can exploit general fears about superhumans, unless maybe he somehow discovers that Superman is an alien. Then there would be plenty of room for speculation about UFOs, potential invasion, etc.

Is Jonah outspokenly religious?

Shellhead
05-13-2015, 12:08 PM
Is Jonah outspokenly religious?

Not that I know of, but Jameson probably at least pays lip service to Christianity, and is certainly not going to worship a pagan god. He also seems like somebody who would be willing to go to extreme lengths against the target of his disdain. Personal attacks on an obscure religious minority are nothing compared to his Spider Slayer antics.

Len Ikari145
05-13-2015, 12:37 PM
i cant recall that Jameson ever paid any attention to the Punisher. Perhaps he has been too caught up in his fanatical anti-Spider bigotry. But i could totally see him have a field day when aattacking the Punisher. Not that Frank would actually give a damn about his own public image.

I would love to see him run a smear campaign against Adam West Batman though. Especially since AW would try to reason with and appeal Jonah.


Yeah, reasoning and appealing to Jonah has never helped Petey in the past.

22090

Wavemaninawe
05-13-2015, 01:14 PM
Not useful. Amusing.



I know that context is everything, but I would like to believe for a moment that those two went on a planned camping trip.

Len Ikari145
05-13-2015, 01:42 PM
Not useful. Amusing.



I know that context is everything, but I would like to believe for a moment that those two went on a planned camping trip.

Given their fair share of misadventures together, it's not completely unfeasible to think so. ^_^

The Watcher
05-13-2015, 01:43 PM
Batman: This would be about the same as going after Spider-man. You've got a sneaky vigilante with a vaguely creepy motif, only in this case, it's also somebody who spends a lot of time beating up the mentally ill. On the other hand, Bruce could just buy the Daily Bugle if he got sufficiently annoyed.

Batman might actually welcome the publicity. Being painted as a dangrous menace could enhance his intimidation factor even more among criminals, making his schtick even more effective.

KingEli
05-13-2015, 03:16 PM
Thor Odinson-Depends on Thor's mood. Good mood has him laughing it off, if he's feeling mischievous he just start causing a rainstorm in JJJ's office. Bad mood has him smashing cameras. Cap gives both sides a stern talking to. Next weeks headline: AVENGERS, SUPERGROUP OR THUGS.

Iron Man-Can you say legal battle of the century? Just imagine RDJ Stark vs. JK Simmions JJJ.

Empowered-"SKIMPY & KINKY, IS THAT WHAT OUR 'HEROES' HAVE COME TO?!" Ninja hijinxs ensue. Headline 2 days later: "NINJAS VICTIMIZE BUGLE. DAREDEVIL TOP SUSPECT. MATT MURDOCK MUST BE DISBARRED!!"

The Chou Lives
05-13-2015, 09:16 PM
Yeah JJJ cannot really do jack or shit to THor, Batman, Ironman, or Supes.

As for the girls obviously refernce to their outfits.

And yeah JJJ does that to SPdier Man for three really good reasons.

1: He is well known to the Public of NY and people love to read about what is going on local/ceelb wise no matte rwhat garbarge it is, therefore money. Not to mention Peter gives him DAMN GOOD PHOTOS to make it clear Spider Man is real!

It's like Bigfoot fighting crime, tkaing pictures of himself, giving you photos to make money, and he has no way to say so for he has to pay bills with some fo that money.

2: Spider Man's influence is so small, he cannot really do anything to change it. He cannot buy out JJJ or threaten him without looking like the menance.

3: Spdierman has a dman good reason to be spun. Consider the following. His back history. Especially with the Staceys. Gwen dies via Green Goblin, cops with her dad finds out, latter Stacey dies. Along with other instances of stuff like that. Peter gets into bad shit all the time, and he cannot fix his problems. SO in his vunerable state. The public and JJJ can blast away at him for it. Evne though he is trying to do the right thing.

The biggest irony I think about JJJ is?

He is not all bad. He does the Spide rMan thing because it makes him money, and he has supproted bad moves (Like HAMMER in Dark Reign.)

But he has had a damn good moment of being considered a good guy.


Mutants.

JJJ is a normal human with a big business, and he supports Mutant rights. Got to give him a point of good karma there.

Wavemaninawe
05-14-2015, 06:00 AM
Batman might actually welcome the publicity. Being painted as a dangrous menace could enhance his intimidation factor even more among criminals, making his schtick even more effective.

You WILL give me the headline!!!



... Because Im Batman.

Len Ikari145
05-14-2015, 06:53 AM
Yeah JJJ cannot really do jack or shit to THor, Batman, Ironman, or Supes.

As for the girls obviously refernce to their outfits.

And yeah JJJ does that to SPdier Man for three really good reasons.

1: He is well known to the Public of NY and people love to read about what is going on local/ceelb wise no matte rwhat garbarge it is, therefore money. Not to mention Peter gives him DAMN GOOD PHOTOS to make it clear Spider Man is real!

It's like Bigfoot fighting crime, tkaing pictures of himself, giving you photos to make money, and he has no way to say so for he has to pay bills with some fo that money.

2: Spider Man's influence is so small, he cannot really do anything to change it. He cannot buy out JJJ or threaten him without looking like the menance.

3: Spdierman has a dman good reason to be spun. Consider the following. His back history. Especially with the Staceys. Gwen dies via Green Goblin, cops with her dad finds out, latter Stacey dies. Along with other instances of stuff like that. Peter gets into bad shit all the time, and he cannot fix his problems. SO in his vunerable state. The public and JJJ can blast away at him for it. Evne though he is trying to do the right thing.

The biggest irony I think about JJJ is?

He is not all bad. He does the Spide rMan thing because it makes him money, and he has supproted bad moves (Like HAMMER in Dark Reign.)

But he has had a damn good moment of being considered a good guy.


Mutants.

JJJ is a normal human with a big business, and he supports Mutant rights. Got to give him a point of good karma there.

Isn't Jonah's vendetta and distrust towards Spidey rooted by the fact his wife was killed by a man in the mask, or has that been retconned?

FrenchGemini
05-14-2015, 07:26 AM
Isn't Jonah's vendetta and distrust towards Spidey rooted by the fact his wife was killed by a man in the mask, or has that been retconned?

IIRC, that one comes from the 90s animated series.

The Drunkard Kid
05-14-2015, 09:26 AM
Isn't Jonah's vendetta and distrust towards Spidey rooted by the fact his wife was killed by a man in the mask, or has that been retconned?

Captain America or Doctor Doom: Who's The Bigger Menace?

Red Skull: Anti-Menace?

May Parker: Menace's Aunty?

jimishim12
05-14-2015, 12:27 PM
There are four main reasons why JJJ's campaign against Peter actually bears a little fruit:

1. Peter isn't big, either in power or in impact on the world;
2. Peter keeps his identity as secret as he can, not giving anyone anything, so rumors hit harder;
3. Peter can't really stop JJJ in any way;
4. The populace of the Marvel world is rather paranoid and suspicious of metas.

For Thor, Superman, Iron Man and Batman, all four of these things are just not the case.

Thor, Superman and Iron Man aren't likely to suffer from any attempt to brand them as criminals. Even if people start to believe it (bloody unlikely), Thor isn't likely to give a crap and anyone with the kind of oomph to be capable of bringing him in (haha...) knows the truth. Like Thor, Iron Man is national/global, not some vigilante in a single city, and Stark will just do his own media relations spin on things...or not really care that the Daily Bugle's readership thinks he's horrible. Or buy the Bugle outright. Batman doesn't care and, should he so desire, can do the same thing as Stark (Wayne can buy the paper and have it focus on 'more important things than some lunatic running around in a bat suit'). Superman is in pretty much the same situation as Thor (even better, given he flies around helping out disaster victims or whatever) - a single newspaper going nutso on his rep is going to be met with a lot of derision and outright hostility, especially given the general DC populace attitude (Post Crisis, don't know about NuDC) of 'Superheroes make the world nice'.

Can't speak for Empowered or Sailor Moon.That's bs imo, spider-man despite his low standing in the marvel u asa important public world figure for the hero side has more connections/support than anyone of his status should have. Even Loki of all people has his back. He could just ask Steve or Tony to make a request to the government to stop the slander of Spider-man permenantly as an act of an illegal slander. Or he could ask Dr. Strange or Loki to brainwash JJ to say positive things about Spider-Man via truth spell.

Lets just say the reason Jonah keeps bashing Spidey is comicbook PIS.

Shellhead
05-14-2015, 01:02 PM
The real reason:

http://runt-of-the-web.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/spider-man-meme-hitler-autograph.jpg

master of read
05-14-2015, 01:32 PM
That's bs imo, spider-man despite his low standing in the marvel u asa important public world figure for the hero side has more connections/support than anyone of his status should have. Even Loki of all people has his back. He could just ask Steve or Tony to make a request to the government to stop the slander of Spider-man permenantly as an act of an illegal slander. Or he could ask Dr. Strange or Loki to brainwash JJ to say positive things about Spider-Man via truth spell.

Lets just say the reason Jonah keeps bashing Spidey is comicbook PIS.

yeah because that sounds like things peter would totally do.

The MunchKING
05-14-2015, 09:03 PM
Not to mention isn't that horribly illegal and all? You know Free Speach and all that jazz?

If the government isn't going to stop papers from bad mouthing the government, they won't violate the law for Peter.

master of read
05-14-2015, 09:15 PM
Not to mention isn't that horribly illegal and all? You know Free Speach and all that jazz?

If the government isn't going to stop papers from bad mouthing the government, they won't violate the law for Peter.

not to mention steve, tony, and strange have better things to do than abuse their powers just because JJ made bad words about peter.

Guy1
05-14-2015, 09:25 PM
yeah because that sounds like things peter would totally do.

Kinda surprised Spock didn't.

big_adventure
05-14-2015, 10:05 PM
Kinda surprised Spock didn't.

Spock did better: he first ingratiated himself with JJJ (who was mayor, not publisher at the time), then, when JJJ decided he was a menace, resorted to blackmail to keep all the support he needed.

jimishim12
05-15-2015, 12:35 AM
yeah because that sounds like things peter would totally do.Because that is totally not how a realistic person wouldn't stop a person publication on account of false conjecture, the daily bugle is a official publisher and Peter is one of the greatest street levelers in New York who has fucking been told by everyone to do something about being a J Jerkface J.


Not to mention isn't that horribly illegal and all? You know Free Speach and all that jazz?

If the government isn't going to stop papers from bad mouthing the government, they won't violate the law for Peter.But in comicbook book land, it's kinda needs to be necessary because of misinterpreted circumstances that may lead Parker with a heap of trouble with the government regardless. But is bad writing reguardless to keep the character struggling and under the map as much as possible.


not to mention steve, tony, and strange have better things to do than abuse their powers just because JJ made bad words about peter.They really don't, not after the stuff Peter has done for them, you just don't want to admit I'm right on this.

Guy1
05-15-2015, 12:45 AM
Because that is totally not how a realistic person wouldn't stop a person publication on account of false conjecture, the daily bugle is a official publisher and Peter is one of the greatest street levelers in New York who has been told by everyone to do something about being a JJJ.

But in comicbook book land, it's kinda needs to be necessary because of misinterpreted circumstances that may lead Parker with a heap of trouble with the government regardless. But is bad writing reguardless to keep the character struggling and under the map as much as possible.

They really don't, not after the stuff Peter has done for them.

MODERATOR
jimishim12, that is enough. Edit your post and cease this behavior.

The Drunkard Kid
05-15-2015, 03:13 AM
Point: Slander isn't protected speech, so suing JJJ is a perfectly valid tactic. Only it would require a ton of time, money, and non-self-loathing that Pete probably can't provide with his super heroing. Also, it would probably require him to reveal his secret identity, and Marvel civilians are dumb enough to try and racially intimidate transom mutants (AKA, the minority whose traits range from learning languages quickly to being a peer of Galactus) as well as try and mob She Hulk.

master of read
05-15-2015, 04:28 AM
Because that is totally not how a realistic person wouldn't stop a person publication on account of false conjecture, the daily bugle is a official publisher and Peter is one of the greatest street levelers in New York who has fucking been told by everyone to do something about being a J Jerkface J.

But in comicbook book land, it's kinda needs to be necessary because of misinterpreted circumstances that may lead Parker with a heap of trouble with the government regardless. But is bad writing reguardless to keep the character struggling and under the map as much as possible.

They really don't, not after the stuff Peter has done for them, you just don't want to admit I'm right on this.

so steve, tony, and strange would violate their own personal and professional ethics to bully the editor of a newpaper because they owe peter?

you know they addressed this in EMH when JJ was talking shit about cap after that whole skull invasion. you know what cap did? his job. just ignored all the crap and shit jameson was slinging at him and just did what he always does: save lives. and it helped spidey figure what to do about JJ.

master of read
05-15-2015, 04:31 AM
Point: Slander isn't protected speech, so suing JJJ is a perfectly valid tactic. Only it would require a ton of time, money, and non-self-loathing that Pete probably can't provide with his super heroing. Also, it would probably require him to reveal his secret identity, and Marvel civilians are dumb enough to try and racially intimidate transom mutants (AKA, the minority whose traits range from learning languages quickly to being a peer of Galactus) as well as try and mob She Hulk.

and peter is also the owner of his own company so he really doesn't have time for a law suit between his super-heroing and being a boss.

MorphyVSFischer
05-15-2015, 01:23 PM
Point: Slander isn't protected speech, so suing JJJ is a perfectly valid tactic. Only it would require a ton of time, money, and non-self-loathing that Pete probably can't provide with his super heroing. Also, it would probably require him to reveal his secret identity, and Marvel civilians are dumb enough to try and racially intimidate transom mutants (AKA, the minority whose traits range from learning languages quickly to being a peer of Galactus) as well as try and mob She Hulk.

In fact she hulk was a prosecuting attorney where Jonah was sued, and was about to lose everything to Spiderman, in the order of several million. Spidey only called it off when it turned out that as Peter Parker he would end up owing himself as Spiderman millions as well.

Laevatein
05-15-2015, 01:48 PM
Point: Slander isn't protected speech, so suing JJJ is a perfectly valid tactic. Only it would require a ton of time, money, and non-self-loathing that Pete probably can't provide with his super heroing. Also, it would probably require him to reveal his secret identity, and Marvel civilians are dumb enough to try and racially intimidate transom mutants (AKA, the minority whose traits range from learning languages quickly to being a peer of Galactus) as well as try and mob She Hulk.

"You can't print that, it's slander."

"No, slander is spoken. In print it's libel."

The MunchKING
05-15-2015, 01:58 PM
Point: Slander isn't protected speech, so suing JJJ is a perfectly valid tactic.

Well yes, but with the current libel laws you have to prove its libel before you can get anything from it.

If the government passed some "it's illegal to talk bad about Spiderman" law as was suggested, that would quickly get shot down as unconstitutional no matter who the US government owed favors to.

Cody
05-16-2015, 10:33 AM
Spock did better: he first ingratiated himself with JJJ (who was mayor, not publisher at the time), then, when JJJ decided he was a menace, resorted to blackmail to keep all the support he needed.

Spock as in..Star Trek? Another Marvel/Star Trek crossover? Or different guy all together?

Guy1
05-16-2015, 10:43 AM
Spock as in..Star Trek? Another Marvel/Star Trek crossover? Or different guy all together?

Spock is another name for 'Superior' Spider-Man, where Doc Ock killed Peter Parker and took over his body.