PDA

View Full Version : THE COLOR BARRIER: Does "Fair Play" Really Matter?



CBR News
05-27-2014, 12:58 PM
Joseph Illidge picked up "Futures End" #3 and wonders if a "thugged out" portrayal of Mister Terrific undermines the character -- or matters at all.


Full article here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53069).

ScottSummers
05-27-2014, 01:05 PM
I've only read the first two issues of Future's End, and haven't bothered with Mister Terrific otherwise, so I'm not sure how much of a departure this is from what's been typical for him the last few years, but it seems in the comic they are making him a more morally ambiguous character. I remember him, in Pre-Nu52 being more Neil Degrasse Tyson-ish (to use the articles example) but I also remember him being much more of a boyscout character. That does not seem to be the character implied by the first two issues (before I ever saw the tattoos). They certainly seemed to imply he was a bit more self-centered in the Future's End issue I read. More along the lines of Downey Jr's Tony Stark, as he's more in it for himself.

So I think the tattoos would've been really out of place on the character ten years ago, but maybe not now.

Double 0
05-27-2014, 01:09 PM
I'm happy Illidge decided to use more energy to promote the great things coming out in the Indies.

DC and Marvel can do whatever they want: I'm here for the rise of a more accessible and inclusive comic book medium. For consumers and producers.

As for Terrific, I've said this before and I'll say it again. That has Azzarello's fingerprints all over it. And not the good side of him.

Cmbmool
05-27-2014, 01:15 PM
Honestly, something must have happen to Mister Terrific to have him change this way since the last time anyone saw him was upon Earth 2.

Things Fall Apart
05-27-2014, 01:20 PM
Honestly, something must have happen to Mister Terrific to have him change this way since the last time anyone saw him was upon Earth 2.

My guess? Azzarello.

7thangel
05-27-2014, 01:21 PM
Honestly, something must have happen to Mister Terrific to have him change this way since the last time anyone saw him was upon Earth 2.

maybe he's overcompensating for when he was working for those nazis. that's what they were right? or was that pre 52?

Kuwagaton
05-27-2014, 01:28 PM
It'd be cool if Terrific was somehow coming back. So... the back tattoo is offensive? If I buy this comic to see what the problem is, will I be lost since I don't read events?

Jeff Brady
05-27-2014, 01:34 PM
It'd be cool if Terrific was somehow coming back. So... the back tattoo is offensive? If I buy this comic to see what the problem is, will I be lost since I don't read events?

I'd imagine that if you're only buying it to see what the fuss is about, the context of the "events" won't matter to you.

Kuwagaton
05-27-2014, 01:41 PM
They didn't seem to matter to the writer of the article, who was buying his first DC comic in about 20 months, but I'd hope to get the context from the issue itself, because if there is something offensive then context will probably matter.

I'm curious to know where the character would go from here, too.

JaggedFel
05-27-2014, 02:07 PM
maybe he's overcompensating for when he was working for those nazis. that's what they were right? or was that pre 52?

Nazis? that is pre-52. But I guess you could say Dark Superman under Darksied is an effective Nazi Stand in and he has been mind controlled into doing some dirty work for Supes

AlexanderLuthor
05-27-2014, 02:11 PM
I think what they've done to Mr. Terrific makes him 100 times more interesting. Instead of just being the boy scout Lex Luthor he actually has some depth now. Not to mention he is setting up to potentially be the big "bad" (that's relative) of Future's End which raises his profile a lot. Anything to get him to quit saying he's the 3rd smartest person in the world

Double 0
05-27-2014, 02:24 PM
I think what they've done to Mr. Terrific makes him 100 times more interesting. Instead of just being the boy scout Lex Luthor he actually has some depth now. Not to mention he is setting up to potentially be the big "bad" (that's relative) of Future's End which raises his profile a lot. Anything to get him to quit saying he's the 3rd smartest person in the world

Are we talking Nu52 Terrific or Pre-Nu52? Because what you said is only right if you mean Nu52.

Maijson
05-27-2014, 02:29 PM
I have read the first half of this article at least 3 times, and I really cannot discern one way or the other how the author actually feels about the depiction in question. Maybe I'm just thick though.

As for the accusation of "thugging out" Terrific, it is very much a perplexing complaint. The depiction of Terrific in question finds his identity almost exclusively in that of Kanye West, who is so far away from the stereotypical "thug from the streets" image, that to even make the connection is totally baffling. From the high fashion, to the obsession with social media and image that is 100% Kanye distilled (Well the general public's perception of Kanye anyway). Past that, Azzarello, who is almost certanly writing Terrific, is writing Mr. T with the machinations and agenda of Ozymandias. The influences are obvious, from Terrific's corporate prowess, his disdain for the silliness and inefficiency of the general superhero population, to using his public image to mask his actual agenda.

So I guess the idea that he's a thug now comes exclusively down to his tats (which he's had since the New 52 launched, btw) and the fact that he's lifting irons in one scene? I don't know, I really don't buy it.

The comparison to DeGrasse Tyson is also a little bit off, as Terrific has been written with a bit of bite to him before. Namely, his origin in Ostrander's The Spectre.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spectrehaunt10.jpg

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spectrehaunt11.jpg

idiyona
05-27-2014, 02:58 PM
Ok let me just say something. As positive as this article tries to make it there's one thing I want to address.

"What's noteworthy to me is that the writer of the "Storm" series is Greg Pak, a man of Korean descent. Marvel Comics hired a Person of Color to write a series about a Character of Color."

Look, I do believe that we need more diversity in the staff who writes, edits, etc. comics to provide newer and more interesting viewpoints but this is different. This is actually massively insulting as the implication is that one "person of color" is just as good as another "person of color" just because they're not white. This is not a hit on Pak's writing ability nor am I complaining about him being the writer for Storm. In fact, I hope he writes a great Storm. My problem is with the one who wrote the article implying that all non-white people are completely interchangeable in writing all "people of color" by the virtue of having a non-white skin tone.

I'm not white and think the implication that all PoC are exactly the same so you can put them all in the same box and are thus completely interchangeable in writing other PoC is a rather racist sentiment in itself whether is comes from a white guy or a "PoC".

Smoov-E
05-27-2014, 03:45 PM
I have read the first half of this article at least 3 times, and I really cannot discern one way or the other how the author actually feels about the depiction in question. Maybe I'm just thick though.

As for the accusation of "thugging out" Terrific, it is very much a perplexing complaint. The depiction of Terrific in question finds his identity almost exclusively in that of Kanye West, who is so far away from the stereotypical "thug from the streets" image, that to even make the connection is totally baffling. From the high fashion, to the obsession with social media and image that is 100% Kanye distilled (Well the general public's perception of Kanye anyway). Past that, Azzarello, who is almost certanly writing Terrific, is writing Mr. T with the machinations and agenda of Ozymandias. The influences are obvious, from Terrific's corporate prowess, his disdain for the silliness and inefficiency of the general superhero population, to using his public image to mask his actual agenda.

So I guess the idea that he's a thug now comes exclusively down to his tats (which he's had since the New 52 launched, btw) and the fact that he's lifting irons in one scene? I don't know, I really don't buy it.

The comparison to DeGrasse Tyson is also a little bit off, as Terrific has been written with a bit of bite to him before. Namely, his origin in Ostrander's The Spectre.

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spectrehaunt10.jpg

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/spectrehaunt11.jpg


You are aware you also just described 50 Cent who is know as a gangster rapper

Exciter
05-27-2014, 04:27 PM
His appearance in Future's End was the first time I have ever found Mr. Terrific even remotely interesting.

Overhazard
05-27-2014, 04:28 PM
I liked the first issue of watson and holmes. I'll get the rest of the series later on. I am also looking forward to action lab's midnight tiger in july.

Kenozoic
05-27-2014, 04:29 PM
I've always liked Mr. Terrific, both pre- and post-New52.

However, if they are going to make him anything like Kanye West, I will have no further use for him. He was fine the way he was. And the tattoo is more NBA/NFL than thug, so I have no issue with it.

Arghant
05-27-2014, 04:40 PM
I found Mr. Terrific's depiction in Future's End #3 to be interesting, nuanced and supremely intelligent. I'm not seeing "Thug" anywhere. Is it thuggish for him to work out? He has no super powers, how else is he to stay fit? He didn't assault anyone, he was supremely confident in his abilities, and his personally designed security was able to circumvent future WayneTech. It showed that he was brilliant, powerful, intuitive, and a bit of a lone wolf, but where do any of those things equal thug?

Man, it feels like DC can do no right in the world of comic fandom nowadays.

Maijson
05-27-2014, 04:50 PM
You are aware you also just described 50 Cent who is know as a gangster rapper

You don't know anything about Kanye or Fiddy if you think that both men fit my description. Please show me 50 Cent's line of high fashion clothing though, if you disagree.

Azzarello is channeling Kanye with his take on Terrific.

skyvolt2000
05-27-2014, 05:04 PM
Man, it feels like DC can do no right in the world of comic fandom nowadays.

And who bought it on themselves?

Folks are now getting tired of DC's antics. Everybody else is catching up to you and instead of getting your act together-you keep making bad choice after bad choice. You would rather keep characters folk have screamed and begged for (the real Wally, the fat Amanda Waller, Cassandra Cain, Static & others) in limbo and toss out gimmicks and over blown weeklies.

I have seen comic book stoers go out of their way to NOT recommend DC books to readers. That's an issue when owners are losing faith in your books.

Smoov-E
05-27-2014, 05:14 PM
You don't know anything about Kanye or Fiddy if you think that both men fit my description. Please show me 50 Cent's line of high fashion clothing though, if you disagree.

Azzarello is channeling Kanye with his take on Terrific.


You do know there's a reason why Marvel doesn't even acknowledge Azzarello did a Cage mini right( hint hit it's because people found it racist ) also I don't think you know of either men( $500 white tees ain't high fashion )

I do look forward to the day Batman shows up with a "Dark Knight" back tattoo, a face portrait of Damian on his chest and his parents name on a heart shape tattoo on his arm complete with date of birth and death date while taking business calls while he lifts weights like he's in prison with multiple threads saying this is Batman

Kurosawa
05-27-2014, 05:27 PM
I found it very disappointing. I like Mr. Terrific like he was, square and goody-goody. Morally gray characters are a dime a dozen nowadays, I like my good guys to be good guys.

Not a fan of tattoos either, and I doubt many Mensa members have them.

cranger
05-27-2014, 06:24 PM
Man, it feels like DC can do no right in the world of comic fandom nowadays.I don't think the fans in general have any more or less problems with DC than any other publisher. The person writing this article does not even read DC comics. $2.99 to be able to come up with that link bait headline was probably a worthwhile investment though.

Jeff Brady
05-27-2014, 06:26 PM
I found it very disappointing. I like Mr. Terrific like he was, square and goody-goody. Morally gray characters are a dime a dozen nowadays, I like my good guys to be good guys.

Not a fan of tattoos either, and I doubt many Mensa members have them.

My wife has an IQ of 180 and has multiple tattoos. People are different.

Arghant
05-27-2014, 06:36 PM
You do know there's a reason why Marvel doesn't even acknowledge Azzarello did a Cage mini right( hint hit it's because people found it racist ) also I don't think you know of either men( $500 white tees ain't high fashion )

I do look forward to the day Batman shows up with a "Dark Knight" back tattoo, a face portrait of Damian on his chest and his parents name on a heart shape tattoo on his arm complete with date of birth and death date while taking business calls while he lifts weights like he's in prison with multiple threads saying this is Batman

Eh, I actually own the Cage mini in hardcover and in no way found it racist, speaking as a lifelong Black New Yorker. Also, Batman would never get tattoos because they're an identifying characteristic, so not really a smart option when you have a secret identity. Mr. Terrific is out, so he doesn't have to worry about that.

Also, I've seen tons of comics where Batman is lifting weights or training and handling business calls. Why is it that lifting weights is associated with prison in this case?

Arghant
05-27-2014, 06:38 PM
I found it very disappointing. I like Mr. Terrific like he was, square and goody-goody. Morally gray characters are a dime a dozen nowadays, I like my good guys to be good guys.

Not a fan of tattoos either, and I doubt many Mensa members have them.

I don't really see where Mr. Terrific is behaving in a morally grey area. He believes that there should be more back and forth between the hero community and regular citizens and he didn't want to join the Justice League. Are those evil decisions?

Charles RB
05-27-2014, 06:45 PM
The main thing I took away from this article is that I should really buy Watson and Holmes.



So I guess the idea that he's a thug now comes exclusively down to his tats (which he's had since the New 52 launched, btw)

He's had the "FAIR PLAY" tat since New 52 started and it's only now a thing? Bloody hell, I thought somebody was buying his solo title but if it's only noticed now...

With what the column has and what you're saying here, I'm not seeing the "thugged out" bit. It's a rich guy branding himself and working out (and he should be because he's a superhero who relies on regular human fitness).

Roguelocke
05-27-2014, 06:51 PM
He's not thugged out at all though...we've seen plenty heroes working out and taking business calls.

CliffHanger2
05-27-2014, 07:17 PM
Well he's not exactly shanking people in the prison yard with his pants saggin. The tat is a little over the top but he does seem more interesting and independent here. And this is an alternate version right? But I wouldn't mind a little of this rubbing off on Terrific he needs a little more edge.

Charles RB
05-27-2014, 07:50 PM
Google tells me that the "thugged out" claim was just about Mr Terrific having a tattoo and lifting weights. (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/127507-has-dc-thugged-out-a-black-character-today.html) That was it. Nothing else about the comic, just two panels where we see a tattoo and that he lifts weights. Then Outhousers added a third panel where he's lifting weights while discussing camera hacking.

numberthirty
05-27-2014, 08:23 PM
Guess it depends on how it plays out. This almost seems like a twist on Checkmate Mr. Terrific.

CagedLeo730
05-27-2014, 09:17 PM
I find hilarious that anyone would consider Kanye a "thug rapper". He's ignorant and arrogant but no thug mentaliity about him. 50 Cent was a "thug" rapper until he went mainstream. Now he's a rich rapper, who's pretty much retired and sang more than he rapped towards the end.

ExcelsiorPrime
05-27-2014, 09:17 PM
The psychology of why Mr. terrific would get a tattoo is the story I would like to read.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/swim-in-denial/201310/if-tattoos-could-talk


As a symbol and a behavior, the tattoo has power. The quest to be better than ordinary is an appetite for more life, more good feeling about yourself.

Tattoos idealize youth and fertility by drawing eyes to youthful skin and often erotic parts of the body. In the process they counter anxiety about aging and death. Nothing beats a butterfly for signaling rebirth. Many symbols, including hearts and ancient Egyptian ankhs, are comforting. And this is no surprise, since terror management experiments in social psychology show that people unconsciously honor the potency of immortality symbols such as the cross and the flag.

Stony
05-28-2014, 06:41 AM
Keep it civil, please

Double 0
05-28-2014, 06:41 AM
Google tells me that the "thugged out" claim was just about Mr Terrific having a tattoo and lifting weights. (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/127507-has-dc-thugged-out-a-black-character-today.html) That was it. Nothing else about the comic, just two panels where we see a tattoo and that he lifts weights. Then Outhousers added a third panel where he's lifting weights while discussing camera hacking.

Yeah, right now, it's a wait and see. I'm just a tad worried, knowing Azzarello's history with minority characters (Cage, 100 Bullets). I'm sure that's the same thing for others.

Normally, I'd trust Azzarello with just about anything storywise. Pretty much did for WW. But that Cage mini doesn't wash off easily, and those gang members in 100 Bullets... Some of them were out of date, to say the least. I have very little trust in DC in general when it comes to minority characters.

Mr. Terrific is one of my, if not my favorite characters in DC. I think some caution is warranted.

blackbolt396
05-28-2014, 05:15 PM
And who bought it on themselves?

Folks are now getting tired of DC's antics. Everybody else is catching up to you and instead of getting your act together-you keep making bad choice after bad choice. You would rather keep characters folk have screamed and begged for (the real Wally, the fat Amanda Waller, Cassandra Cain, Static & others) in limbo and toss out gimmicks and over blown weeklies.

I have seen comic book stoers go out of their way to NOT recommend DC books to readers. That's an issue when owners are losing faith in your books.

I must say I've seen the opposite of what your saying, comic shop I go to they recommend a lot of DC comics.

Redjack
05-28-2014, 07:27 PM
40+ "New 52" books cancelled and now this? I don't know why anyone is shocked. Pass.

King Of All Nerds
05-28-2014, 09:51 PM
I dunno, I kinda want that tat now.