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ColonelGM
09-12-2015, 07:18 PM
Classic Juggernaut

Vs

Superman
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Flash

1st Battle is New 52
2nd Battle is Pre New 52

No BFR
No Telepathy
No Speed Stealing

Who Wins?
Cain or The JLA?

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-12-2015, 07:19 PM
Well, they're not going to stop him without TP or a BFR, so...

ColonelGM
09-12-2015, 07:29 PM
The question is can Cain afford to just stand there in middle of the area and just no sell there attacks like nothing or will it eventually put him down?
Is he that durable?

Kusanagi
09-12-2015, 07:34 PM
The funny thing is, if he was allowed telepathy, Martian Manhunter is one of the few heroes in comics I could see soloing Juggernaut.

Siriel
09-12-2015, 07:35 PM
The question is can Cain afford to just stand there in middle of the area and just no sell there attacks like nothing or will it eventually put him down?
Is he that durable?

He pretty much is. With that said he has no real way to defeat them either since at the very worse they can just take turns flying up while the others sleep.

ColonelGM
09-12-2015, 07:45 PM
He pretty much is. With that said he has no real way to defeat them either since at the very worse they can just take turns flying up while the others sleep.

So this is pretty much a stalemate then?

StupidMoniker
09-12-2015, 08:24 PM
What happens if MM or Flash phase him into the ground?

Guy1
09-12-2015, 08:27 PM
Classic Juggernaut

Vs

Superman
Martian Manhunter
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
Green Lantern
Flash

1st Battle is New 52
2nd Battle is Pre New 52

No BFR
No Telepathy
No Speed Stealing

Who Wins?
Cain or The JLA?

Honestly, if you need to place that many restrictions on the fight, that really says it all.

The Drunkard Kid
09-12-2015, 08:33 PM
He pretty much is. With that said he has no real way to defeat them either since at the very worse they can just take turns flying up while the others sleep.

To be fair, at least Wally and Arthur can starve to death. Maybe.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-12-2015, 09:03 PM
Honestly, if you need to place that many restrictions on the fight, that really says it all.

He does this for all the fights. Went from one character, to this one.

Regardless, current Marko is TP immune even without the helmet, so TP isn't exactly getting anywhere. They'd have to BFR. Speed stealing wouldn't necessarily work either, given that once he starts moving, stopping him is almost impossible outside of overpowering him, or overriding the magic.

Guy1
09-12-2015, 10:54 PM
Regardless, current Marko is TP immune even without the helmet,

Wow seriously? When was this?

Captain Morgan
09-12-2015, 11:03 PM
Actually, I believe it is possible to drop Cain if you get esoteric enough. I belive Nimrod did it with a sonic attack or something. A Flash and a Lantern have a decent chance of making something similar happen given enough time to experiment, and they should have the time to here.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-12-2015, 11:13 PM
Wow seriously? When was this?

Mm, I don't know when it was first introduced Axis maybe. But it's been that way for a year or two.

Siriel
09-12-2015, 11:26 PM
What happens if MM or Flash phase him into the ground?

He breaks out? Everything else aside he's still a class 100, the ground isn't really going to contain him.


Actually, I believe it is possible to drop Cain if you get esoteric enough. I belive Nimrod did it with a sonic attack or something. A Flash and a Lantern have a decent chance of making something similar happen given enough time to experiment, and they should have the time to here.

How he holds up against esoterics really depends on the day of the week. On a good day he does things like keep trucking despite being turned (read:flayed) into a flaming skeleton after having some of his power drained.

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 01:27 AM
Kyle Rayner boosted by MM and Supermans HV could stop him with an energy attack. We are talking about a guy who holds together a solar system and contains a nova ( both with extreme effort )

Edit : Martian Manhunter can also phase inside him and materialise .

Postmania
09-13-2015, 05:06 AM
Edit : Martian Manhunter can also phase inside him and materialise .

That won't stop him. He was turned into a skeleton and just regenerated.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-13-2015, 05:40 AM
That won't stop him. He was turned int oa skeleton and just regenerated.

That'd probably kill J'onzz.

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 05:56 AM
That won't stop him. He was turned into a skeleton and just regenerated.

The Martian Manhunter has been turned to a literal stain on a wall, while flames surround him, and completely regenerated

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 06:02 AM
That'd probably kill J'onzz.

That probably won't. KO him maybe . Even if it does, that's going to hurt like hell

Postmania
09-13-2015, 06:05 AM
The Martian Manhunter has been turned to a literal stain on a wall, while flames surround him, and completely regenerated

that's nice, but it still won't stop Juggernaut.

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 06:40 AM
that's nice, but it still won't stop Juggernaut.

Maybe not . But it will weaken him enough for Kyle to finish him off

master of read
09-13-2015, 06:51 AM
http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/576/136718-136696_nothingcnstpthjuggernaut_super_super.jpg

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 06:56 AM
http://i.imgur.com/piIARIv.png

And unlike the Juggernaut he has actually replicated the feat , actually even more impressively when he downloaded his consciousness to one arm and regrew himself from that after his "original body" was killed

http://m.imgur.com/a/St5zy

Anarchist
09-13-2015, 07:54 AM
Mm, I don't know when it was first introduced Axis maybe. But it's been that way for a year or two.

It actually happened just over 4 months ago, in Amazing X-Men Vol 2 19.
They were all 'Oh no problem, we're just gonna tear away his helmet, and then Rachel will mindfrag him, same old business as always.....Oh, CRAP!'
It also came with a new look for Cain
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/5b/Juggernaut_(Earth-616)_defeating_the_X-Men_(Earth-616)_from_Amazing_X-Men_Vol_2_19.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150503014553

And yeah, they aren't gonna stop Cain without BFR.
At the very best, it's a stalemate with casualties on the JL side, as Cain doesn't tire, need water, food etc

Captain Smith
09-13-2015, 08:46 AM
I suggest a sensory deprivation strategy. A GL can totally block all sight and sound from Juggy. Such makes you uncomfortable after a bit and he might surrender.

Another strategy is that he had eye holes and a mouth. The JL can introduce very unpleasant bodily products from themselves into these openings, again getting a surrender.

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 09:35 AM
I find it hard to believe that Juggernaut can't be put down by what is essentially the silver surfer here ( Kyles power + Wallys speed + energy attacks )

StupidMoniker
09-13-2015, 09:55 AM
He breaks out? Everything else aside he's still a class 100, the ground isn't really going to contain him.
A table is no match for Superman, but it sure messed him up good when Fernus phased him into one.

The Dork Knight
09-13-2015, 10:13 AM
A table is no match for Superman, but it sure messed him up good when Fernus phased him into one.

That is surely a low showing for superman more than anything . Earlier in the same JLA run he was chatting casually while bits and pieces of his body were flying about in warped space. His insides like any class 100 are just as tough as his outsides. The same writer said as much when Manchester Black tried to give him a stroke (" Tough little tubes of concrete " , referring to his capillaries IIRC . Concrete > table )

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-13-2015, 11:06 AM
http://i.imgur.com/piIARIv.png

And unlike the Juggernaut he has actually replicated the feat , actually even more impressively when he downloaded his consciousness to one arm and regrew himself from that after his "original body" was killed

http://m.imgur.com/a/St5zy

Funny thing is, Juggernaut's feats support the above. He doesn't need to replicate the exact same feat.

Beyond that, trying to phase into something more durable than you are us going to do serious damage, Regen or not, and given that the Skellernaut wasn't put out by not having meat on him, having a green guy phase into him and be violently ruined isn't going to do much better.

Captain Morgan
09-13-2015, 11:22 AM
That is surely a low showing for superman more than anything . Earlier in the same JLA run he was chatting casually while bits and pieces of his body were flying about in warped space. His insides like any class 100 are just as tough as his outsides. The same writer said as much when Manchester Black tried to give him a stroke (" Tough little tubes of concrete " , referring to his capillaries IIRC . Concrete > table )

I always just assumed Fernus was also messing up Clark via physical and/or telepathic abuse, as he spent much of the arc doing.

Pendaran
09-13-2015, 01:13 PM
That is surely a low showing for superman more than anything . Earlier in the same JLA run he was chatting casually while bits and pieces of his body were flying about in warped space. His insides like any class 100 are just as tough as his outsides. The same writer said as much when Manchester Black tried to give him a stroke (" Tough little tubes of concrete " , referring to his capillaries IIRC . Concrete > table )

Things that happen in some spatial distortion are not the same thing as getting a table phased into you where reality is working fine as far as physical consequences. Unless you're now arguing that Superman can have parts of his body separated off of him normally and would not harm or impair him remotely. He can be really durable and still have something basically melded with his body be really painful for the experience as far as a giant chunk of table being inside and now fused with his organs. Thor was surviving the entire lower half of his body having been phase bonded with the ground beneath him. It still, y'know, really hurt.

StupidMoniker
09-13-2015, 01:17 PM
That is surely a low showing for superman more than anything . Earlier in the same JLA run he was chatting casually while bits and pieces of his body were flying about in warped space. His insides like any class 100 are just as tough as his outsides. The same writer said as much when Manchester Black tried to give him a stroke (" Tough little tubes of concrete " , referring to his capillaries IIRC . Concrete > table )
I think the idea is that getting phased into something means you are sharing space with the thing on a subatomic level. It isn't like you are just surrounded by the stuff, the protons of whatever's atoms are now bumping up against the protons of your atoms. I would imagine it would be even more disruptive/damaging/painful than even having pieces of one's body flying about in warped space. Someone trying to TK his insides is not remotely comparable.

Anarchist
09-13-2015, 01:19 PM
Just like Hulk is far tougher than concrete and being phased into it by Kitty still hurt him (albeit he quickly broke out of it)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/25521/1127022-783132_kitty1_md_super.jpeg

Pendaran
09-13-2015, 01:24 PM
You know what, aside from all the other things that were dumb about WWH: X-men, gets me about that? Kitty has shown willingness to do far worse and far more effective with phasing people into the ground (see aforementioned entire lower half of Thor's body. Yeah, she thought he was the Juggernaut, but she thought here Hulk was on a fuck everyone up intentional rampage meant to take Xavier off to god only knows what). Here? "Nope, I'll just do his hands and a bit of his legs. Derp!"

Cody
09-13-2015, 01:24 PM
So the Flash just can't phase right through him and make him go boom?

Cody
09-13-2015, 01:26 PM
You know what, aside from all the other things that were dumb about WWH: X-men, gets me about that? Kitty has shown willingness to do far worse and far more effective with phasing people into the ground (see aforementioned entire lower half of Thor's body. Yeah, she thought he was the Juggernaut, but she thought here Hulk was on a fuck everyone up intentional rampage). Here? "Nope, I'll just do his hands and a bit of his legs. Derp!"

Really? that bugged you the most? Not the whole "Hulk fighting evenly with goddamn Sentry" thing? Since...that was hilarious. May have been a green Thanos fighting Sentry.

Pendaran
09-13-2015, 01:28 PM
Really? that bugged you the most? Not the whole "Hulk fighting evenly with goddamn Sentry" thing? Since...that was hilarious. May have been a green Thanos fighting Sentry.

That happened in the main WWH miniseries, this was a tie in miniseries ;p I can be bugged by different things in different things!

Anarchist
09-13-2015, 01:28 PM
Really? that bugged you the most? Not the whole "Hulk fighting evenly with goddamn Sentry" thing? Since...that was hilarious. May have been a green Thanos fighting Sentry.

Surprisingly, this didn't bother me much, as Sentry had been in a catatonic state for days before this and thanked Bruce in the end, implying he subconsciously let himself be beaten.

Meaning even when being psychologically fucked up, he can take Hulk's best and has to be willing to lose.

AlphaMale
09-14-2015, 10:10 PM
So the Flash just can't phase right through him and make him go boom?

Nah.

Wally's vibratory shenanigans come to a screeching halt when it comes to magical bonds.

Given the nature of Juggsy's force field/source of power, yeah...

Won't happen.

Miracleman
09-14-2015, 11:08 PM
I know Cain was restored to his former glory. Aside from complete TP resistance. Is he back to his old durability and strength days??

Anarchist
09-15-2015, 08:18 AM
Well, he hasn't done much yet, aside from no-selling Colossus and casually smacking the latter across a countryside, but c is for cookie, that's good enough for me to say that he is.

(For those curious: Colossus "defeated" him via smashing the ground beneath his feet, which caused him to fall into a lake far below)

EDIT: Oh, and before that he ignored the collective assault of Pixie, Iceman, Northstar and Firestar.

Beadle
09-15-2015, 08:59 AM
If there's a version of Juggs who WOULDN'T have ignored that last thing, it would be a very sad Cain indeed.

Anarchist
09-15-2015, 09:35 AM
Eh, Iceman has more oomph than Colossus.

Slade1
09-15-2015, 11:30 AM
Is it possible to phase Cain into the Khazan walls?

Guy1
09-15-2015, 12:05 PM
Is it possible to phase Cain into the Khazan walls?

Pretty sure those are Godproof.

Cody
09-15-2015, 12:22 PM
I miss the days when Juggernaut was basically another variant of the Hulk. Now he is almost like a diet Thanos.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-15-2015, 12:26 PM
I miss the days when Juggernaut was basically another variant of the Hulk.

Never really been the case, unless you're talking about him being the mental peer of a brick.

Cody
09-15-2015, 12:47 PM
Never really been the case, unless you're talking about him being the mental peer of a brick.

Yea. Pretty much like he was in the old x-men cartoons.

Anarchist
09-15-2015, 01:09 PM
Well, Juggernaut is a unique case.
He is stupidly tough and almost impossible to defeat with brute force, but he is still relatively easy to dispose of when you work smart.
His unstoppable momentum is his biggest strength and biggest weakness at the same time.

Cody
09-15-2015, 01:15 PM
Well, Juggernaut is a unique case.
He is stupidly tough and almost impossible to defeat with brute force, but he is still relatively easy to dispose of when you work smart.
His unstoppable momentum is his biggest strength and biggest weakness at the same time.

What do you mean?

The Watcher
09-15-2015, 06:31 PM
stopping him is almost impossible outside of overpowering him, or overriding the magic.
The last option is the deciding factor. The question would come down to what's more powerful, Cytorak's empowerement of Juggernaut or the enchantment on Wonder Woman's Magic Lasso.

Cody
09-15-2015, 06:37 PM
The last option is the deciding factor. The question would come down to what's more powerful, Cytorak's empowerement of Juggernaut or the enchantment on Wonder Woman's Magic Lasso.

Isn't Cytorak a skyfather? Aren't the Skyfathers from Marvel radically more powerful than their DC counterparts? If so then I'd imagine Cytorak's empowerment would be more powerful than WW's lasso.

Captain Morgan
09-15-2015, 07:56 PM
Isn't Cytorak a skyfather? Aren't the Skyfathers from Marvel radically more powerful than their DC counterparts? If so then I'd imagine Cytorak's empowerment would be more powerful than WW's lasso.

It isn't like Cytorak puts every possible ounce of his energy into Cain, anymore than Odin put every bit of his energy into Mjolnir.

I'm not advocating for the lasso doing the trick here, just saying that's not great logic to apply. Though it has done some pretty plot device things in the past.

The Dork Knight
09-15-2015, 08:19 PM
The lasso is a non factor . Not that it isn't incredibly powerful but the lasso being unbreakable is meaningless when the people pulling it aren't . Juggernaut can simply overpower the user

The Dork Knight
09-15-2015, 08:22 PM
Isn't Cytorak a skyfather? Aren't the Skyfathers from Marvel radically more powerful than their DC counterparts? If so then I'd imagine Cytorak's empowerment would be more powerful than WW's lasso.

Very much doubt that . The lasso breaking caused reality throughout the universe to break down as " truth" broke down . Cyttorak isn't capable of operating on quite the same scale. Also as noted , he doesn't give his whole power to Cain

Captain Morgan
09-15-2015, 08:51 PM
The lasso is a non factor . Not that it isn't incredibly powerful but the lasso being unbreakable is meaningless when the people pulling it aren't . Juggernaut can simply overpower the user

It has done other things, including disrupt magic and get enemies to submit and stuff. Not sure it will work here though.

The Dork Knight
09-15-2015, 08:56 PM
It has done other things, including disrupt magic and get enemies to submit and stuff. Not sure it will work here though.

Who did it get to "submit"?

Pendaran
09-15-2015, 08:56 PM
Would have to truck in what sort of magics has it disrupted then.

The Drunkard Kid
09-15-2015, 09:21 PM
Very much doubt that . The lasso breaking caused reality throughout the universe to break down as " truth" broke down . Cyttorak isn't capable of operating on quite the same scale. Also as noted , he doesn't give his whole power to Cain

Honestly, that arc seemed way beyond the power scale of the Greco-Roman DC pantheon that made it (DC has, like, 2-3 Greco Roman Pantheons at least, depending on whether or not you count Vertigo's), seeing as how they are not generally portrayed as being cosmic abstracts with universal level powers, IIRC. The Vertigo GRP might be on that tier, if only because of the Euminides who are also the Fates, and who also hounded Dream until he had Death kill him, but that was heavily implied to have been arranged by Dream himself out of guilt.

Pendaran
09-15-2015, 09:26 PM
Honestly, that arc seemed way beyond the power scale of the Greco-Roman DC pantheon that made it (DC has, like, 2-3 Greco Roman Pantheons at least, depending on whether or not you count Vertigo's), seeing as how they are not generally portrayed as being cosmic abstracts with universal level powers, IIRC. The Vertigo GRP might be on that tier, if only because of the Euminides who are also the Fates, and who also hounded Dream until he had Death kill him, but that was heavily implied to have been arranged by Dream himself out of guilt.

More than heavily implied really. That was straight up Dream committing suicide.

Marvel-Studios Rep
09-15-2015, 09:27 PM
http://www.chasingamazingblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ASM230_04-e1376847371520.jpg


Yeah, he's reeeeeeeeeeaaaallll tough :DD

Batman solos!

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-15-2015, 11:47 PM
If you're serious. It's clobberin' time

Starter Set
09-15-2015, 11:55 PM
Batman solos!

Please, Robin would be quite enough for him, no need to bother the man.

Miracleman
09-16-2015, 05:37 AM
So essentially Cain is not only back to being classic juggernaut(for the time being) he is now completely TP immune?

Anarchist
09-16-2015, 07:54 AM
What do you mean?
His momentum can be used against him and has been many times, mostly to BFR him.

Isn't Cytorak a skyfather?
Narratively, he is around that level, yeah. It's just that he doesn't have that many direct feats, he is one of those entities whose powers are more often called upon rather than used directly (Crimson Bands).
He does have a few though, his latest was during AvX where he lol-noped Colossus and Magik empored by the Phoenix Force when they were in his realm.

So essentially Cain is not only back to being classic juggernaut(for the time being) he is now completely TP immune?

Yeah.

Siriel
09-16-2015, 10:57 AM
He does have a few though, his latest was during AvX where he lol-noped Colossus and Magik empored by the Phoenix Force when they were in his realm.


Colossus is the only one who attacked. That entire scene went exactly as Magik wanted it to go; if she actually wanted to remove the Juggernaut enchantment (which is why Colossus went to Cyttorak) she could have done it at any time.

Cytorrak could probably have also no-sold her mind you, but he didn't have any opportunity to.

k von doom
09-16-2015, 09:05 PM
Isn't Cytorak a skyfather?

Slightly off topic but I think Cytorrak is slightly above Skyfather level, in as much as a bunch of dudes can borrow/use Cytorrak's power without as much as a second thought from the big-guy, meaning his power reserves are massive. Guys like Odin and Zeus pretty much keep their power to themselves.

The Drunkard Kid
09-16-2015, 09:50 PM
Slightly off topic but I think Cytorrak is slightly above Skyfather level, in as much as a bunch of dudes can borrow/use Cytorrak's power without as much as a second thought from the big-guy, meaning his power reserves are massive. Guys like Odin and Zeus pretty much keep their power to themselves.

Eh, Dormammu also empowers spells and is on or somewhat below Odin's tier. Also, didn't one writer make it so that all the Norse pantheon and their rivals are just aspects of/projections by Odin?

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-17-2015, 11:06 AM
Eh, Dormammu also empowers spells and is on or somewhat below Odin's tier. Also, didn't one writer make it so that all the Norse pantheon and their rivals are just aspects of/projections by Odin?

... Amnesia Dust!

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 12:14 PM
Eh, Dormammu also empowers spells and is on or somewhat below Odin's tier. Also, didn't one writer make it so that all the Norse pantheon and their rivals are just aspects of/projections by Odin?

He sure did in one of the most gloriously, sociopathically insane sequences of comics ever. Seriously, Odin is the worst. He's basically Sid from Toy Story except that he knows his toys are alive and that only amuses him harder.

Anarchist
09-17-2015, 12:21 PM
But luckily, that seems to be ignored by the following writers.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 12:41 PM
But luckily, that seems to be ignored by the following writers.

I dunno, they seem to have decided that Odin is a douchebag anyway because reasons. If they're going to do that, they should just use the most awesome version of douchebag Odin.

Beadle
09-17-2015, 12:47 PM
I, for one, would very much like to read 'The Adventures of PC Dr Fate, Douchebag Amnesia Dust Odin and The Bride of Nine Spiders' by Pendaran.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 12:57 PM
I dunno, that's a pretty quick comic as Odin keeps commanding Asgardians to talk to the Bride of Nine Spiders so that they can end up covered in spiders while he laughs and claps his hands like some sadistic bearded one eyed eight year old and Doctor Fate freaks out about the spider problem so he solves it by banishing all spiders on Earth into a black hole. And also everything else on Earth. And also the planet Earth.

What?

Problem solved.

Then they all go get drunk and the Bride of Spiders pays the tab in massive swarms of spiders. Because spiders.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-17-2015, 01:16 PM
All that does is turn a Black Hole into the spider dimension.

Nik Hasta
09-17-2015, 02:01 PM
Stop making be remember that the Immortal Weapons are now all dead for no reason.

Still mad about that.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 02:08 PM
All that does is turn a Black Hole into the spider dimension.

Don't make Doctor Fate throw that black hole into another black hole that he then compresses into a spear with which to pierce the side of God himself.

What?

How do you exterminate spiders? Bug spray? It's not Dr Fate's fault he's more efficient at this sort of thing than you are.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 02:09 PM
Stop making be remember that the Immortal Weapons are now all dead for no reason.

Still mad about that.

Sigh. Yeah. Great work on that one Marvel.

master of read
09-17-2015, 02:10 PM
Stop making be remember that the Immortal Weapons are now all dead for no reason.

Still mad about that.

wait.


they............they dead?

even fat cobra?

The Drunkard Kid
09-17-2015, 02:12 PM
Stop making be remember that the Immortal Weapons are now all dead for no reason.

Still mad about that.

You say "dead" like it means something in comics.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
09-17-2015, 02:12 PM
Don't make Doctor Fate throw that black hole into another black hole that he then compresses into a spear with which to pierce the side of God himself.

What?

How do you exterminate spiders? Bug spray? It's not Dr Fate's fault he's more efficient at this sort of thing than you are.

Are you trying to turn the spider dimension into the new TOAA?

Well ... Dr. Fate probably would. Keep up the good work, I guess.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 02:13 PM
You say "dead" like it means something.

It means something just fine when you're not an established long term character or otherwise on the A or B list.

Anarchist
09-17-2015, 02:20 PM
wait.


they............they dead?

even fat cobra?

Fat Cobra is actually the only one who made it out alive IIRC.

But then again, the whole Defenders story was rendered invalid via time travel at the end of the story, so shouldn't they all be back alive?

Dark Soul # 7
09-17-2015, 02:47 PM
Fat Cobra is actually the only one who made it out alive IIRC.

But then again, the whole Defenders story was rendered invalid via time travel at the end of the story, so shouldn't they all be back alive?
Have they been seen since?

And will they survive the refurbishing of the Secret Wars storyline.

Nik Hasta
09-17-2015, 02:59 PM
I'm just hoping that they come back, everyone forgets about the whole "Prince Orphans is actually evil," thing and they can go of and have radical kung fu adventures together.

Beadle
09-17-2015, 03:06 PM
Pretty sure Dog Brother #1 and Tiger's Beautiful Daughter were killed off in an entirely different story to the others, so those two are doubtless gone whatever.

But then I'm not up to speed.

When you say they died except Fat Cobra, that clearly excludes Danny. And if DB#1 & TBD were already dead, them too. Was Steel Serpent even with the group at that point? That only leaves Prince of Orphans and Bride of Nine Spiders, doesn't it?

master of read
09-17-2015, 03:19 PM
Pretty sure Dog Brother #1 and Tiger's Beautiful Daughter were killed off in an entirely different story to the others, so those two are doubtless gone whatever.

But then I'm not up to speed.

When you say they died except Fat Cobra, that clearly excludes Danny. And if DB#1 & TBD were already dead, them too. Was Steel Serpent even with the group at that point? That only leaves Prince of Orphans and Bride of Nine Spiders, doesn't it?

and we know how pen feels about BoNS. :)

k von doom
09-17-2015, 03:22 PM
Eh, Dormammu also empowers spells and is on or somewhat below Odin's tier.

Dormammu is another that I would put above Skyfather level, on the same level as Shuma Gorath and the Elder Gods. I believe, because of the galactic chess match between Odin and Dormammu, people believe they are equals.


Also, didn't one writer make it so that all the Norse pantheon and their rivals are just aspects of/projections by Odin?

I remember reading something like that in Earth X or Paradise X, where 'Odin' was just some guy raised during Norse times. He was approached by formless aliens, whom he projected his Norse beliefs on and formed the now-Norse pantheon, with him as their leader.

Pendaran
09-17-2015, 03:38 PM
Dormammu is another that I would put above Skyfather level, on the same level as Shuma Gorath and the Elder Gods. I believe, because of the galactic chess match between Odin and Dormammu, people believe they are equals.

I'm not quite there with putting Dormammu that high, above skyfather or anything like that. A lot of his craziest stuff involves efforts to oomph himself up to be that crazy.