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End of Time
04-30-2014, 11:28 PM
Let's continue where we left on the old forum...

Let's be sexy beasts.

Dawn Quixotic
04-30-2014, 11:33 PM
Huh, didn't know we had one of these. Maybe I'll have to spend more time here now.

Tangent Man
04-30-2014, 11:46 PM
If so, you might win "Coolest Username"! You definitely get a vote from me!

regomar
05-01-2014, 12:08 AM
Huh, I didnt know there was one of these in the old forums either. The more you know. 'B' represent!

Time Like Lightning
05-01-2014, 12:15 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdz9ht1lc1qb56fk.png

Takin' CBR by storm. >;D

Power Torch
05-01-2014, 12:15 AM
Yay! I did not know there was one of these to start with.

I am a pansexual homo-romantic male. If you need details on what that means, let me know lol.

I never questioned if there were more LGBTQ people here, but I hope I get to meet a lot of you!

How is everyone?

bert
05-01-2014, 12:16 AM
have yall seen these amazing RPDR prints from Chad Sell?

I bought his books at C2E2, but this Alaska print is getting framed for the wall:

http://www.chadsellcomics.com/wp-content/gallery/drag_race_5/alaska_2.jpg

Dawn Quixotic
05-01-2014, 12:16 AM
If so, you might win "Coolest Username"! You definitely get a vote from me!

Well thanks. I'm actually thinking of changing my name to Dawn one day.

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 12:36 AM
YEY! Pleased you created this thread EoT. Excited to post lots of great LGBT news from across the world here. :smile:

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 12:40 AM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgdz9ht1lc1qb56fk.png

Takin' CBR by storm. >;D

That's how I like approaching the world!


Yay! I did not know there was one of these to start with.

I am a pansexual homo-romantic male. If you need details on what that means, let me know lol.

I never questioned if there were more LGBTQ people here, but I hope I get to meet a lot of you!

How is everyone?

Welcome! I'd say I'm alternately disgusted & delighted with the world.

I think I may very well be a homosexual, pan-romantic male, if THAT makes sense! Whaddaya say we team up and take over the world?


Well thanks. I'm actually thinking of changing my name to Dawn one day.

Nuh-uh! Don't you dare change your nick! LOL

Kieran: Here's your first assignment--what's up with that hotel that pissed off Ellen Degeneres? FB flaked out on me and I lost the link!

End of Time
05-01-2014, 12:50 AM
Oh I totally forgot peeps, Kieran Frost told me to tell you that all the hot new guys should post a pic of themselves... shirtless... while holding syrup-drenched waffles in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other, staring longingly into the camera...

I mean, sure... this might seem a bit eccentric, but hey it's Kieran Frost...


.

oh hey Kieran... totally didn't see you standing there... uuuhm... yeah... so... lovely weather we're having, isn't it?

Awkwaaaaaaaaaaaaard

Dawn Quixotic
05-01-2014, 12:58 AM
Nuh-uh! Don't you dare change your nick! LOL


I meant IRL. :P

Power Torch
05-01-2014, 12:59 AM
I think I may very well be a homosexual, pan-romantic male, if THAT makes sense! Whaddaya say we team up and take over the world?
I know what that means, makes sense to me! I for one don't care for labels, but it helps make people understand! And yes! I am already working on my plans *insert evil laugh here*.

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 01:12 AM
I meant IRL. :P

Right on!!!

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 01:35 AM
Oh I totally forgot peeps, Kieran Frost told me to tell you that all the hot new guys should post a pic of themselves... shirtless... while holding syrup-drenched waffles in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other, staring longingly into the camera...

I mean, sure... this might seem a bit eccentric, but hey it's Kieran Frost...



oh hey Kieran... totally didn't see you standing there... uuuhm... yeah... so... lovely weather we're having, isn't it?

Awkwaaaaaaaaaaaaard
HAHAHAHAHA! Shhhhhh... :wink:

P.S. it's not shirtless or with syrup... but...
https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/p417x417/30669_758742037880_17756_n.jpg

PretenderNX01
05-01-2014, 02:00 AM
Huh, I didnt know there was one of these in the old forums either. The more you know. 'B' represent!
I think I just assumed the Young Avengers threads served this purpose. :p



P.S. it's not shirtless or with syrup... but...

You know somewhere I have a pic of my tummy while mixing cake batter, cause that's how I sext. LOL

Here's a nice classy one though
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t1.0-9/183839_613299417978_5878472_n.jpg

End of Time
05-01-2014, 02:56 AM
I'm going to regret this:

246

Welcome to Grindr. ;):D

Lady_Alternate
05-01-2014, 05:37 AM
Huh, didn't know we had one of these. Maybe I'll have to spend more time here now.

Last time we got folded in with the catch-all "Minority" thread, and it wasn't a very welcoming place. High hopes for this community, though.

Sprite
05-01-2014, 05:45 AM
^ Nice Hellcat avatar!

Hello! I identify as bisexual, so I felt the need to post here. :)

End of Time
05-01-2014, 07:29 AM
Last time we got folded in with the catch-all "Minority" thread, and it wasn't a very welcoming place. High hopes for this community, though.

Those dark times are behind us now. This is a fresh start, we're the sexiest bunch of them all. Celebrate.

bert
05-01-2014, 07:34 AM
Long time (almost original) poster, but I left about 4 years ago and now back.

here's something from Chicago a few days ago:

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10268589_776675422350458_8888931431652472806_n.jpg

bert
05-01-2014, 07:35 AM
I'm going to regret this:

246

Welcome to Grindr. ;):D

if my phone did anything more than actually make phone calls?

I'd be texting you, "heyyyyyyy"

:)

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 07:55 AM
^ Nice Hellcat avatar!

Hello! I identify as bisexual, so I felt the need to post here. :)
Welcome Rozen. :) Hope to have many great discussion here with you all.

Also, EoT; if I get permission from Mods; can I create a poll to merge into this thread title (asking each other's sexuality; so we can see how many CBR posters are LGBT; and know we are not alone or few)? Would you be okay with that?

End of Time
05-01-2014, 07:59 AM
Welcome Rozen. :) Hope to have many great discussion here with you all.

Also, EoT; if I get permission from Mods; can I create a poll to merge into this thread title (asking each other's sexuality; so we can see how many CBR posters are LGBT; and know we are not alone or few)? Would you be okay with that?

I don't see why it would be a problem?

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 08:03 AM
I identify as genderqueer and I date dudes for the most part.


Welcome Rozen. :) Hope to have many great discussion here with you all.

Also, EoT; if I get permission from Mods; can I create a poll to merge into this thread title (asking each other's sexuality; so we can see how many CBR posters are LGBT; and know we are not alone or few)? Would you be okay with that?

I dunno if that's good idea given how complex categories are ... letting everyone pick for themselves seems to be going well. :)

Flight
05-01-2014, 08:08 AM
does anyone else advertise in their Scruff profile that they read comic books?

Scarlet Frost
05-01-2014, 08:08 AM
I try not to be one for labels but I guess I would define myself as a genderqueer (or maybe genderfluid?) pan-romantic (possible?) penis lover.

Could I be more vague or indecisive? XD

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 08:12 AM
does anyone else advertise in their Scruff profile that they read comic books?

It's why I get most of my messages on grindr. I won't forget some of the sleazy puns for a very very very long time.

End of Time
05-01-2014, 08:14 AM
does anyone else advertise in their Scruff profile that they read comic books?

Girl, do I look like I use Scruff? Well, actually yes I do... and yes, I do mention comics in my profile. :D

Flight
05-01-2014, 08:37 AM
Girl, do I look like I use Scruff? Well, actually yes I do... and yes, I do mention comics in my profile. :D Oh. Ok. I Am Flight.

Eli.C
05-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Oh I totally forgot peeps, Kieran Frost told me to tell you that all the hot new guys should post a pic of themselves... shirtless... while holding syrup-drenched waffles in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other, staring longingly into the camera...

I mean, sure... this might seem a bit eccentric, but hey it's Kieran Frost...

Can't promise I won't eat the waffles before the shoot is over, and I don't do coffee.

I was going to say that you could google me, but apperently Eli.C is actually a thing from Glee.

That's...unfortunate. I hate that show. And that guy is way more attractive than me. Drat.

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 08:49 AM
I don't see why it would be a problem?
SWEET! Thank-you


I identify as genderqueer and I date dudes for the most part.
Ah, this raises a good point. What should be in the poll? I was just going to go with:
Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgender
Transexual
Curious
Straight

What other terms should I include?

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 08:57 AM
SWEET! Thank-you


Ah, this raises a good point. What should be in the poll? I was just going to go with:
Gay
Lesbian
Bisexual
Transgender
Transexual
Curious
Straight

What other terms should I include?
Well, identities are fluid and some people identify as multiple things. There are asexual people who also might identify as gay or lesbian, for example, or transgender people who might identify as straight or bi or gay/lesbian and if you include trans then you should include cis as well. It's a messy arena.

There's also the fact that some terms which mean particular things to some people mean different things to others. A lot of people treat the word 'queer' as an umbrella term whereas I do not, and I don't consider myself in the 'trans*' umbrella even if other people lump genderqueer in there a fair bit.

Arvandor
05-01-2014, 09:05 AM
Well, identities are fluid and some people identify as multiple things. There are asexual people who also might identify as gay or lesbian, for example, or transgender people who might identify as straight or bi or gay/lesbian and if you include trans then you should include cis as well. It's a messy arena.

As an asexual (I think), I've always kind of resented its inclusion on the old thread, and never felt comfortable with it. I feel like we're the opposite of what this thread represents, and I just don't fit in.

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 09:11 AM
As an asexual (I think), I've always kind of resented its inclusion on the old thread, and never felt comfortable with it. I feel like we're the opposite of what this thread represents, and I just don't fit in.
I can appreciate that. There's often been this awkward point where the acronym expands with good intentions without really relating to the things it expands into. I've had a lot of discussions with intersex activists who have similar sentiments.

Aguja
05-01-2014, 09:16 AM
As an asexual (I think), I've always kind of resented its inclusion on the old thread, and never felt comfortable with it. I feel like we're the opposite of what this thread represents, and I just don't fit in.

But it depends on where you fall on the asexual spectrum. There are asexuals who do have attraction to opposite sex or same sex people. They just have no desire to have a physical relationship with them.

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 09:17 AM
Well, identities are fluid and some people identify as multiple things. There are asexual people who also might identify as gay or lesbian, for example, or transgender people who might identify as straight or bi or gay/lesbian and if you include trans then you should include cis as well. It's a messy arena.

There's also the fact that some terms which mean particular things to some people mean different things to others. A lot of people treat the word 'queer' as an umbrella term whereas I do not, and I don't consider myself in the 'trans*' umbrella even if other people lump genderqueer in there a fair bit.
Well I only have 15 slots ;) So what would you suggest? I mean yes a gay person can also identify as asexual; but so can a straight person (it's not as "linked" -- if that is the term -- to sexuality in the commonest terminology). The poll won't be multiple choice, so what would you pick as the options?

Time Like Lightning
05-01-2014, 09:25 AM
I'm not a fan of a poll in general, just because it takes away from the safe spot aspect of the thread. Before I came out, I liked that I could post on the thread without having to identify myself (I didn't want the first place I came out to be the Internet). It might make it harder for closeted individuals to enjoy the thread.

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 09:38 AM
I'm not a fan of a poll in general, just because it takes away from the safe spot aspect of the thread. Before I came out, I liked that I could post on the thread without having to identify myself (I didn't want the first place I came out to be the Internet). It might make it harder for closeted individuals to enjoy the thread.
Of course the last thing I want to do is discourage anyone posting; BUT you can still post without voting. Also, while I 99% of the time do a "public poll"; I think it would be a very good thing to do this one poll private. So we can see there is plenty of LGBT posters without "outing" anyone. Fair? :)

Mikekerr3
05-01-2014, 09:41 AM
It is a badweek for the anti-gay marriage crown, Two eople that appeal to their base have come out for gay marriage, Stever Astin and Dolly parton. Itwoill be funy to watch folks try to avoid on stepping on the toes of either of them. You really dn't want pick a fight with either of them, but in this case Stonecold would be the safer one, since you don't pick fights with master wordsmiths, like Dolly, whom have huge fan-bases

End of Time
05-01-2014, 09:51 AM
I can appreciate that. There's often been this awkward point where the acronym expands with good intentions without really relating to the things it expands into. I've had a lot of discussions with intersex activists who have similar sentiments.

When someone mentioned "gender fluid" I thought back of another discussion, where I learned that LGBT really should be LGBQ, because sexuality and gender aren't so closely linked as they once were when the movement started out. Transgender is something completely different from homosexuality and bisexuality, and by keeping them linked you are doing them all a disservice. So that raises the question, should gender be divorced from sexuality?

bert
05-01-2014, 09:53 AM
like Dolly, whom have huge fan-bases

yeah. .it's her "fan-base" that's "huge"



LOL


(I LOVE Dolly.. so just funnin').

Eli.C
05-01-2014, 09:56 AM
When someone mentioned "gender fluid" I thought back of another discussion, where I learned that LGBT really should be LGBQ, because sexuality and gender aren't so closely linked as they once were when the movement started out. Transgender is something completely different from homosexuality and bisexuality, and by keeping them linked you are doing them all a disservice. So that raises the question, should gender be divorced from sexuality?

I think it should, insofar as sexuality ought to be a personal thing that varies from individual to individual. But there is a different term for a man that is attracted to men than for a woman that is attracted to men. But I do think it goes back to the issue of creating an umbrella for a something that is wildly different for each and every individual.

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 10:01 AM
I'm not at ALL surprised by Dolly! She's a longtime friend of the community, publicly saying so in many interviews. Steve Austin pleasantly surprised me, though. Stonecold didn't mince words, either!

Welcome to the new folks, and welcome back to the returning members who've been away! Like bert, I've been around CBR a long time ('96). I'm wowed by the strong queer presence here!

Eli: I think the umbrella covered all as a survival strategy in the earliest Post-Stonewall years. People who otherwise might not have had a voice found one by banding together. Trans folk were said to participate in the Stonewall Riots, so there's that piece, as well. The Trans community have a much stronger platform now, with more support than in the early years.

Charmed
05-01-2014, 10:15 AM
I'm also surprised that there's one of these threads.
This will probably be one of those threads I frequent a lot.
As for my orientation, I'm a gay male (though labels are so overrated :rolleyes:)

galaxygnome
05-01-2014, 10:25 AM
poll would be bad! too many different ways people identify themselves and trying to force people to choose the categories you identify as legitimate creates tension and conflict within the community that doesn't feel good. :/ i like the way everyone thus far has been identifying themselves when and how they feel like it, it's more natural, and i don't think we have any particular need for a poll that divides it up by identity. maybe just a 1-option poll of "do you identify under the LGBTQ+ umbrella?" and then you could get a count of how many of us there are in total compared to the total number of active posters on cbr... and there's your % right there, yeah?


ANYWAY

where my fellow queer ladies at? -high fives all around- heyyyyy

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 10:33 AM
I think it should, insofar as sexuality ought to be a personal thing that varies from individual to individual. But there is a different term for a man that is attracted to men than for a woman that is attracted to men. But I do think it goes back to the issue of creating an umbrella for a something that is wildly different for each and every individual.
Very good point. But I also don't want anyone to feel we are excluding, or not here to talk about any issues under the "umbrella" they wish to voice. If that makes sense? We want the thread to be open to all.


I'm not at ALL surprised by Dolly! She's a longtime friend of the community, publicly saying so in many interviews. Steve Austin pleasantly surprised me, though. Stonecold didn't mince words, either!
Agreed. Both awesome allies.


Welcome to the new folks, and welcome back to the returning members who've been away! Like bert, I've been around CBR a long time ('96). I'm wowed by the strong queer presence here.
Agreed; so happy the strong presence and support we are seeing right now. :)

Scarlet Frost
05-01-2014, 10:39 AM
poll would be bad! too many different ways people identify themselves and trying to force people to choose the categories you identify as legitimate creates tension and conflict within the community that doesn't feel good. :/ i like the way everyone thus far has been identifying themselves when and how they feel like it, it's more natural, and i don't think we have any particular need for a poll that divides it up by identity. maybe just a 1-option poll of "do you identify under the LGBTQ+ umbrella?" and then you could get a count of how many of us there are in total compared to the total number of active posters on cbr... and there's your % right there, yeah?


ANYWAY

where my fellow queer ladies at? -high fives all around- heyyyyy

I'm mostly lady. I say that because I've never really felt fem but don't think of myself as masculine. I just am, I guess. 'Spose that's why I think of myself as mostly neutral and kinda fluid. Gendermolasses maybe?

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 11:04 AM
Forgot to say earlier: I'm a gay male, in a long term relationship with my boyfriend (proposing to him some-time in Octish) :)


poll would be bad! too many different ways people identify themselves and trying to force people to choose the categories you identify as legitimate creates tension and conflict within the community that doesn't feel good. :/ i like the way everyone thus far has been identifying themselves when and how they feel like it, it's more natural, and i don't think we have any particular need for a poll that divides it up by identity. maybe just a 1-option poll of "do you identify under the LGBTQ+ umbrella?" and then you could get a count of how many of us there are in total compared to the total number of active posters on cbr... and there's your % right there, yeah?
What about a poll option of "nothing here sums up my sexuality" or "I fall under the umbrella, that's enough"? I don't want to divide, and I agree people can just say it if and when they choose; but I like polls (OCD, I'm afraid... nearly all my threads have polls)


I'm also surprised that there's one of these threads.
This will probably be one of those threads I frequent a lot.
YEY! Welcome aboard. :)

Eli.C
05-01-2014, 11:04 AM
Very good point. But I also don't want anyone to feel we are excluding, or not here to talk about any issues under the "umbrella" they wish to voice. If that makes sense? We want the thread to be open to all.


Ai, and I'm not particularly opposed to the idea. I am worried about the potential of someone being followed because they identified and someone is seeking to attach themselves because they don't want to feel alone anymore.

Also, funfact: I am still not to terms with my bisexuality. I'm aware that I can be attracted to dudes, I don't think it is bad, I'm still taken aback to how strongly I react to Chris Evans.


I'm mostly lady. I say that because I've never really felt fem but don't think of myself as masculine. I just am, I guess. 'Spose that's why I think of myself as mostly neutral and kinda fluid. Gendermolasses maybe?

*Chokes*

New rule. We warn Eli when something funny is about to be posted. Yes? Yes. Done.

LeonardEugenius
05-01-2014, 11:09 AM
This is me and the face of evil

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b4ffca65b4f2f272d2a2a8c201f69bb6/tumblr_n37lo5Usy51qciuclo1_500.jpg


does anyone else advertise in their Scruff profile that they read comic books?

I do on mine

End of Time
05-01-2014, 11:15 AM
Also, funfact: I am still not to terms with my bisexuality. I'm aware that I can be attracted to dudes, I don't think it is bad, I'm still taken aback to how strongly I react to Chris Evans.



Chris Evans doesn't count, I mean, come on, look at that guy.

But here's a question... have you had sex with a man? A friend of mine, let's call him a friend, thought he was bi. He wasn't sure about it, had sex with a man a couple of times and liked it. Afterwards he decided that while he might enjoy sex with men, he isn't attracted to them on any other level save for the slight indescretion every once and again.

It sort of mirrors my own growth and realization. For the longest time I didn't know what I was and my sexual attraction was more about finding something to compensate for a loss in my childhood. I longed for friendship, not a relationship. I mixed sexual desires with the desire for brotherhood and belonging, only to end up discovering that I wasn't just looking for some kind of physical friendship, I was looking for an actual romantic relationship.

Sexuality is sometimes that you grow into, if you ask me. It's something that isn't set in stone, it's something you learn about yourself as you grow up and mature.

Eli.C
05-01-2014, 11:29 AM
Chris Evans doesn't count, I mean, come on, look at that guy.

But here's a question... have you had sex with a man? A friend of mine, let's call him a friend, thought he was bi. He wasn't sure about it, had sex with a man a couple of times and liked it. Afterwards he decided that while he might enjoy sex with men, he isn't attracted to them on any other level save for the slight indescretion every once and again.

It sort of mirrors my own growth and realization. For the longest time I didn't know what I was and my sexual attraction was more about finding something to compensate for a loss in my childhood. I longed for friendship, not a relationship. I mixed sexual desires with the desire for brotherhood and belonging, only to end up discovering that I wasn't just looking for some kind of physical friendship, I was looking for an actual romantic relationship.

Sexuality is sometimes that you grow into, if you ask me. It's something that isn't set in stone, it's something you learn about yourself as you grow up and mature.

Right? I knew something was up when I saw Not Another Teen Movie. He's just so...righteous.

I have, my first sexual encounter was with a man (and no one has replicated his feat since), and I have had a couple of encounters since. The biggest issue is that I'm much pickier when it comes to men than with women, and that might be because I am massively competitive, and when I see a guy, it is as a potential rival first, mate second.

Maybe third or fourth.

I'm reaaaally competitive.

Charmed
05-01-2014, 11:30 AM
I won't even bother posting my picture.
I don't want anyone to be blinded by my ugliness :(

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 11:45 AM
I'm mostly lady. I say that because I've never really felt fem but don't think of myself as masculine. I just am, I guess. 'Spose that's why I think of myself as mostly neutral and kinda fluid. Gendermolasses maybe?

I play women in RPGs! I have no desire to identify as a woman irl, but get a RPG running...!

Where does THAT fit in the gender spectrum? Not sarcasm, have psychologists considered studying cross-gender role playing in tabletop/online/PbP games?


This is me and the face of evil

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b4ffca65b4f2f272d2a2a8c201f69bb6/tumblr_n37lo5Usy51qciuclo1_500.jpg



Guns of Death, you mean!

Those arms! Those ARMS! :cool:

Personally, I consider sexuality a fluid phenomenon. Check out research on sexual orientation, and you find enough support for that statement. Consider the " Mostly Straight" thing happening with men recently!

I'm also in favor of a poll, as optional fun, mandatory privacy in answers.

@Charmed: that's a terrible thing to say about yourself! We're not rating pics here...at least not seriously. Post yours if you feel so inclined, whenever you're ready!

Flight
05-01-2014, 11:52 AM
I won't even bother posting my picture.
I don't want anyone to be blinded by my ugliness :( baby, you look in that mirror, and you tell yourself you are FIERCE.

ExcelsiorPrime
05-01-2014, 11:53 AM
I lurk a bit..and I am familiar with the acronym LGBT but I have a question..what does the Q stand for?

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 11:54 AM
I lurk a bit..and I am familiar with the acronym LGBT but I have a question..what does the Q stand for?

Questioning

ExcelsiorPrime
05-01-2014, 11:55 AM
Questioning

ahh had to google that. Thanks.

Kieran_Frost
05-01-2014, 11:59 AM
Also, funfact: I am still not to terms with my bisexuality. I'm aware that I can be attracted to dudes, I don't think it is bad, I'm still taken aback to how strongly I react to Chris Evans..
To be fair, Chris Evans can turn anyone bi

http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/evans-grab/chris-evans-captain-america-crotch-grab-03.jpg


http://24.media.tumblr.com/b4ffca65b4f2f272d2a2a8c201f69bb6/tumblr_n37lo5Usy51qciuclo1_500.jpg

You sir... are a goooooooood looking man!


I play women in RPGs! I have no desire to identify as a woman irl, but get a RPG running...!
Where does THAT fit in the gender spectrum? Not sarcasm, have psychologists considered studying cross-gender role playing in tabletop/online/PbP games?
I nearly exclusively play women in RPGs; mainly because the women often get cooler capes and hoods (lame, I know, but it's true). Female wizards in Balduer's Gate look epic, male wizard just look like old men. Also Zelda's the best in Smash Bros, and Peach looks like a pink Bride from Kill Bill on her bike in Mario Kart. It's all about the visuals; women can nearly always look better at men, they have more choices in their ensemble. The Oscars, actresses and what they wear is almost as big as who wins. The men = outside of a wonky bow-tie, no-one cares what we wear.


@Charmed: that's a terrible thing to say about yourself! We're not rating pics here...at least not seriously. Post yours if you feel so inclined, whenever you're ready!
THIS! Don't say such things Charmed, it's not a beautiful pageant, it's sharing fun pictures of each other for joy. I shared drunk Clint Eastwood-Kieran at a wedding. It's not my "best looking" picture, but the one that brings the biggest smile to my face (and hopefully the face of others). Hence the share. :)

Flight
05-01-2014, 12:05 PM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mormel
05-01-2014, 12:10 PM
Mormel reporting in as well... I don't recall ever posting in the thread that was up before the reset, but I'll be checking this one out from now on. Cool to see Flanny here, didn't realize he was still active on CBR at all.

>does a polite little curtsey<

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 12:10 PM
Chris Evans has a...well-endowed...gay brother who acts in soaps.

Draw your own conclusions! LOL

Kieran: I think that's a solid piece. Women are traditionally allowed more flamboyant expression. Men in comics trend toward being too "traditional". The few men I played in RPGs were kooks, geeks, queer, or otherwise subversive. For me, I don't like the gender role constraints in comic/gaming subculture. Some of the usual male archetypes bore me.

Does that make sense?

End of Time
05-01-2014, 12:15 PM
Mormel reporting in as well... I don't recall ever posting in the thread that was up before the reset, but I'll be checking this one out from now on. Cool to see Flanny here, didn't realize he was still active on CBR at all.


No offense or anything, but when we said this topic was open for all... we kind of meant... "open for all, except Mormel". Nothing personal, it's just that I'm the only dutch guy in this topic, and that already fills up the quotum, so yeah... kthnxbai.

Scarlet Frost
05-01-2014, 12:19 PM
I play women in RPGs! I have no desire to identify as a woman irl, but get a RPG running...!

Where does THAT fit in the gender spectrum? Not sarcasm, have psychologists considered studying cross-gender role playing in tabletop/online/PbP games?



I don't want to be a guy but while I'm female in body, I've never felt particularly female. I guess, this is the body I'm in, I don't know why there's certain societal expectations because of it. I had someone tell me once I was a gay man trapped in a woman's body.

Mormel
05-01-2014, 12:20 PM
No offense or anything, but when we said this topic was open for all... we kind of meant... "open for all, except Mormel". Nothing personal, it's just that I'm the only dutch guy in this topic, and that already fills up the quotum, so yeah... kthnxbai.Too late: Flanny's of Dutch descent, and Flight's lived in the Netherlands. Dutch quotum's already been filled several times over. :P

Flight
05-01-2014, 12:23 PM
Too late: Flanny's of Dutch descent, and Flight's lived in the Netherlands. Dutch quotum's already been filled several times over. :P wow~~~~~~~ i can't believe you remembered that! this user is now gone...

mattbib
05-01-2014, 12:24 PM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't really play video games...the only one I can think of is the X-Men multi-player game and I'd usually pick Cyclops, but I do remember occasionally playing as Storm or Dazzler.

That said, except for my two favorite characters of Cyclops and Captain America, I've always favored strong Claremontian female characters.

Flight
05-01-2014, 12:25 PM
I don't really play video games...the only one I can think of is the X-Men multi-player game and I'd usually pick Cyclops, but I do remember occasionally playing as Storm or Dazzler.

That said, except for my two favorite characters of Cyclops and Captain America, I've always favored strong Claremontian female characters. is this your way of saying you have a crush on me~~~~~~~~~?

Ed Cunard
05-01-2014, 12:27 PM
To be fair, Chris Evans can turn anyone bi

http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/evans-grab/chris-evans-captain-america-crotch-grab-03.jpg

The only man who can make human foot boots look good. I just realized that's what he was wearing, and that he wasn't Hank McCoy circa 1963.

Scarlet Frost
05-01-2014, 12:27 PM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Many eons ago when I played WoW, on Horde side I played Tauren or Blood Elf for males and Orc and Trolls for females; while on the Alliance side I played Dranei and Dwarves for males and Dranei and Gnomes for females.

Apparently cloven hooves are very sexy to me.

I generally play females in fighters (usually the mentally unbalanced ones). The only male character I ever liked was Guy in Street Fighter.

mattbib
05-01-2014, 12:34 PM
is this your way of saying you have a crush on me~~~~~~~~~?
LOL that's not what I'm saying at all. I like Cyclops. You like Havok. That would just be wrong.

Ed Cunard
05-01-2014, 12:35 PM
LOL that's not what I'm saying at all. I like Cyclops. You like Havok. That would just be wrong.

Totally wrong. Like getting the digits of the bride in a bachelorette party at a divey karaoke bar....

(Hi, Bib!)

mattbib
05-01-2014, 12:37 PM
Totally wrong. Like getting the digits of the bride in a bachelorette party at a divey karaoke bar....

(Hi, Bib!)OMG, did I do that???

(and Hi! lol)

Flight
05-01-2014, 12:37 PM
LOL that's not what I'm saying at all. I like Cyclops. You like Havok. That would just be wrong. i will accept your kinks because we are loverz now

Michael P
05-01-2014, 12:38 PM
Totally wrong. Like getting the digits of the bride in a bachelorette party at a divey karaoke bar....

(Hi, Bib!)

That was a great night.

Ed Cunard
05-01-2014, 12:40 PM
OMG, did I do that???

(and Hi! lol)

Yes, that one was you.

I shipped in my own date that year.

mattbib
05-01-2014, 12:41 PM
Yes, that one was you.

I shipped in my own date that year.
LOL I don't know whether I should feel proud or humiliated. That would never happen these days.

Ed Cunard
05-01-2014, 12:49 PM
LOL I don't know whether I should feel proud or humiliated. That would never happen these days.

Well, either way, you'd blush, so just let everyone else speculate as to what's making your cheeks rosy.

Tangent Man
05-01-2014, 01:10 PM
I don't want to be a guy but while I'm female in body, I've never felt particularly female. I guess, this is the body I'm in, I don't know why there's certain societal expectations because of it. I had someone tell me once I was a gay man trapped in a woman's body.

You sound like a few good friends from college!

Storm & Dazzler are sublime, and deserve fanboy/girl/boi/gurl Hosannas!

Aguja
05-01-2014, 01:33 PM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mileena & Jade >>>>>> Kitana. Cammy & Rose are everything in SF though.

The Dog
05-01-2014, 01:51 PM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Me too. Fighting games, platformers, or whatever, if there's an option to play as a female, I take it... Well, except Super Mario Bros 2. There I go with Luigi, cause that superior jumping height is a must!

Oh, and hello all. I'm Scott, and even though I'm a virgin, I identify as a bisexual because of the XXX entertainment I enjoy.

Charmed
05-01-2014, 03:14 PM
I play women in RPGs! I have no desire to identify as a woman irl, but get a RPG running...!


@Charmed: that's a terrible thing to say about yourself! We're not rating pics here...at least not seriously. Post yours if you feel so inclined, whenever you're ready!

I used to play as women in RPGs all the time (Which is probably why Lightning [the woman in my avatar] is one of my favorite RPG characters ever), but now I create more male avatars. I still rep the ladies in MMOs on occasion, though.


baby, you look in that mirror, and you tell yourself you are FIERCE.

All the mirrors in my house are covered for good reason. :p





THIS! Don't say such things Charmed, it's not a beautiful pageant, it's sharing fun pictures of each other for joy. I shared drunk Clint Eastwood-Kieran at a wedding. It's not my "best looking" picture, but the one that brings the biggest smile to my face (and hopefully the face of others). Hence the share. :)

I may have been overstating the ugly thing. I don't think of myself to be ugly ugly, but I also don't find myself particularly good looking either. (I'd rate myself a 4) I guess my love of self-deprecating humor went too far on this one. :o

Arvandor
05-01-2014, 03:17 PM
I literally cannot understand why anyone would NOT want to play as a sexy female badass in a videogame.

bert
05-01-2014, 03:28 PM
no one comments on my "walking on air" picture?

goes to the corner and cries!

IT'S LIKE A SMITHS SONG UP IN HERE!!!!!

Eli.C
05-01-2014, 03:35 PM
I literally cannot understand why anyone would NOT want to play as a sexy female badass in a videogame.

I typically tend to think they look like goddamned fools.

With Morrigan (Darkstalkers) as an exception.

I rarely play games outside the fighting game genre (and when I do they are typically sports games), but I'm over gratuitous titty. Don't need it. Nothing is sexier than someone kicking ass, and nothing takes my mind out of that faster than seeing the player model clip through enemies because the designer insisted on double Fs for the character.

Again. Morrigan makes it work. But she's also top-tier in my game of choice, so the competence thing comes back into play.

LeonardEugenius
05-01-2014, 03:38 PM
I play as guys in RPGs, but when it comes to fighting games I have no preferences. Ivy was one of the best and most difficult characters in Soul Calibur.


Guns of Death, you mean!

Those arms! Those ARMS! :cool:


You sir... are a goooooooood looking man!

Thanks for the compliments, guys

gregyo
05-01-2014, 03:42 PM
I'm mostly str8, but I love all my LBGT friends on CBR! (Hey KF!)

Charmed
05-01-2014, 04:45 PM
I play as guys in RPGs, but when it comes to fighting games I have no preferences. Ivy was one of the best and most difficult characters in Soul Calibur.



This reminds me, I need to pick up Injustice when I get some money. It's the only game, aside from Lego Batman 2 (which I love), that I can play Wonder Woman in.

Sprite
05-01-2014, 04:52 PM
I enjoy playing as women a lot in games, no matter the genre. I was so happy when I got to play as Peach in Super Mario 3D World.

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 05:25 PM
I've always played as female characters in fighter games, ever since the pre-teen me realised that spamming Chun-Li's kicks was a good way of repelling the teens trying to kick me off the arcade machine with their pesky challenges. Nina from Tekken is pretty fab too, and gotta love the wincing when she does her Bad Habit move.


Well I only have 15 slots ;) So what would you suggest? I mean yes a gay person can also identify as asexual; but so can a straight person (it's not as "linked" -- if that is the term -- to sexuality in the commonest terminology). The poll won't be multiple choice, so what would you pick as the options?
Well, 15 isn't enough, which is partly why it might be good to cool it with the poll.


When someone mentioned "gender fluid" I thought back of another discussion, where I learned that LGBT really should be LGBQ, because sexuality and gender aren't so closely linked as they once were when the movement started out. Transgender is something completely different from homosexuality and bisexuality, and by keeping them linked you are doing them all a disservice. So that raises the question, should gender be divorced from sexuality?

I think sexuality is a vector of gender and it's firmly linked due to the way society oppresses the entire 'community' as it were. Transphobia and biphobia may have separate elements but they're strongly related to homophobia and people who experience those inevitably experience homophobia as well unlike the variety of other oppressions.

Power Torch
05-01-2014, 05:27 PM
Did I miss picture sharing time lol :P oh well.

I mostly play females in games and table tops cause I love stories with kick butt females! Its why I read Ghost and love Poison Ivy.

Flaneur
05-01-2014, 05:27 PM
Me too. Fighting games, platformers, or whatever, if there's an option to play as a female, I take it... Well, except Super Mario Bros 2. There I go with Luigi, cause that superior jumping height is a must!

Oh, and hello all. I'm Scott, and even though I'm a virgin, I identify as a bisexual because of the XXX entertainment I enjoy.

Mate, Princess Peach floats. Who passes that shit up?

Legato
05-01-2014, 05:32 PM
Me too. Fighting games, platformers, or whatever, if there's an option to play as a female, I take it... Well, except Super Mario Bros 2. There I go with Luigi, cause that superior jumping height is a must!

Oh, and hello all. I'm Scott, and even though I'm a virgin, I identify as a bisexual because of the XXX entertainment I enjoy.
There isn't an RPG where I haven't roleplayed as a female

Viteh
05-01-2014, 06:05 PM
The only man who can make human foot boots look good. I just realized that's what he was wearing, and that he wasn't Hank McCoy circa 1963.

Ohhh they are boots. Good, I was afraid those were his real feet.

Hey all. I'm from Perú, and I'm a gay male. ;)

Back when I played WoW I mostly played as a female. The male models just didn't look as cool. :p

R.E.B
05-01-2014, 06:05 PM
Wow one day and End Of Time has dearly departed... Now the Pip/EOT love story wont continue.

Cool to see old names (Hi Kieran, Hi Omegastorm, Welcome Back Lady A) and new names here. I post alot of news & info, and some counseling. Im Bisexual and happy that there's a thread like this again.

The Dog
05-01-2014, 06:13 PM
Mate, Princess Peach floats. Who passes that shit up?

Yeah, but her lack of jump height makes those difficult jumps harder than Luigi's NBA-grade leaps.


There isn't an RPG where I haven't roleplayed as a female

I've played guys before, but lately I've only played females.

Legato
05-01-2014, 06:17 PM
I've played guys before, but lately I've only played females.
I wonder if it's the fact that playing females just makes it more fun?

Charmed
05-01-2014, 06:28 PM
Some RPGs (DC Universe Online for example) have terrible customization for females. (Though that applies to the game as a whole)
GTA Online has some pretty good customization for females and when I was obsessed with it, I had my female looking good. Of course people complained about the women looking like "men", but I thought mine looked fine.
The clothing options were kind of meh. No thigh highs :( Unpractical or not, they should have been in that game on day one.

SpOck
05-01-2014, 07:23 PM
I don't think I've said this before, but I'm a bisexual man, just in case anyone wanted to know.

t hedge coke
05-01-2014, 09:04 PM
Here's a quick comic I did a couple months back, having a bit of an empathetic-laugh at folks who get obsessed with groups/perspectives that aren't their own, in that "I hate them!"/"They're always checking me out!" way. Nothing sad-funny the same way or level as a dude who obsessively thinks everyone is checking him out all the time.

http://s2.postimg.org/skgno9mjr/Fraught_With_Fear.jpg



Mate, Princess Peach floats. Who passes that shit up?

Seriously. And, I thought Luigi's thing was that he ran fast? (If all the playable characters in Super Mario 2 have the same attributes and that's all bs, I'm gonna laugh and still play the Princess, 'cause.)

Chris Lang
05-01-2014, 09:19 PM
Did I miss picture sharing time lol :P oh well.

I mostly play females in games and table tops cause I love stories with kick butt females! Its why I read Ghost and love Poison Ivy.

Ditto. Most of the characters I play in games and in forum RPGS are female because I like stories with strong female protagonists. And I don't want those games and forum RPGs to be too lacking in those.

t hedge coke
05-01-2014, 09:28 PM
Ditto. Most of the characters I play in games and in forum RPGS are female because I like stories with strong female protagonists. And I don't want those games and forum RPGs to be too lacking in those.

I get that, to a degree, but I tend to just go with powerset and/or look. Male, female, w'ev, if they're the most stylin' playable character, they're for me. But, I tend to avoid rpgs or playing story mode in most games, too.

dahllaz
05-01-2014, 10:10 PM
*waves* Hiya everyone.
On the old forum, I mostly lurked at the X-boards, with forays into the Batman board periodically. Decided that this reboot of the boards was a good time to try and participate more.

So. Queer woman, kind of a homebody. Used to team rope, but had a bit of a wreck little over a year ago and just now starting to get my nerve back to get back into that. I don't bounce quite as well anymore when I hit the ground. ha!

Anybody else get back into comics due to so many being available digitally? I'd quit buying in the early '00s due to various reasons, but not having rooom for more was a big part of why it took so long to get back to comics. But once I discovered Comixology last year, I have spent so much money on comics.

Jonah Weiland
05-01-2014, 11:20 PM
Wow one day and End Of Time has dearly departed... Now the Pip/EOT love story wont continue.

Cool to see old names (Hi Kieran, Hi Omegastorm, Welcome Back Lady A) and new names here. I post alot of news & info, and some counseling. Im Bisexual and happy that there's a thread like this again.Glad to have you hear. Looking forward to the news you post.

Flaneur
05-02-2014, 02:48 AM
Yeah, but her lack of jump height makes those difficult jumps harder than Luigi's NBA-grade leaps.
I never had a problem, I always found Toad to be the tricky character tbh.


Seriously. And, I thought Luigi's thing was that he ran fast? (If all the playable characters in Super Mario 2 have the same attributes and that's all bs, I'm gonna laugh and still play the Princess, 'cause.)

I thought Luigi's thing was more to have a big butt.

Sprite
05-02-2014, 02:56 AM
*waves* Hiya everyone.
On the old forum, I mostly lurked at the X-boards, with forays into the Batman board periodically. Decided that this reboot of the boards was a good time to try and participate more.

So. Queer woman, kind of a homebody. Used to team rope, but had a bit of a wreck little over a year ago and just now starting to get my nerve back to get back into that. I don't bounce quite as well anymore when I hit the ground. ha!

Anybody else get back into comics due to so many being available digitally? I'd quit buying in the early '00s due to various reasons, but not having rooom for more was a big part of why it took so long to get back to comics. But once I discovered Comixology last year, I have spent so much money on comics.

*hug* Welcome to the club, dahllaz. I'm glad you'll be able to be more active.

Ghostwise
05-02-2014, 03:02 AM
Anybody else get back into comics due to so many being available digitally? I'd quit buying in the early '00s due to various reasons, but not having rooom for more was a big part of why it took so long to get back to comics. But once I discovered Comixology last year, I have spent so much money on comics.

It also allows for the work of inkers and colourists to shine. I spend a lot of time working on comic book panels, and seeing the differences between the printed version and the "pure" digital version gives me a greater appreciation of the art work.

Sprite
05-02-2014, 03:07 AM
It also allows for the work of inkers and colourists to shine. I spend a lot of time working on comic book panels, and seeing the differences between the printed version and the "pure" digital version gives me a greater appreciation of the art work.

Digital art really does pop out more, IMO. To answer dahllaz, I have Comixology to thank for getting me into comics with its availability and frequent sales. It's too bad that the app stores are gone, now. :(

Lady_Alternate
05-02-2014, 03:46 AM
Wow one day and End Of Time has dearly departed... Now the Pip/EOT love story wont continue.

Cool to see old names (Hi Kieran, Hi Omegastorm, Welcome Back Lady A) and new names here. I post alot of news & info, and some counseling. Im Bisexual and happy that there's a thread like this again.

Thank you! *waves*


*waves* Hiya everyone.
On the old forum, I mostly lurked at the X-boards, with forays into the Batman board periodically. Decided that this reboot of the boards was a good time to try and participate more.

So. Queer woman, kind of a homebody. Used to team rope, but had a bit of a wreck little over a year ago and just now starting to get my nerve back to get back into that. I don't bounce quite as well anymore when I hit the ground. ha!

Anybody else get back into comics due to so many being available digitally? I'd quit buying in the early '00s due to various reasons, but not having rooom for more was a big part of why it took so long to get back to comics. But once I discovered Comixology last year, I have spent so much money on comics.

Heyhey. o/

While digital didn't exactly get me back into comics (although I did have a mainstream hiatus from the mid 90's to around 2006), it has encouraged me to buy a lot more series in single issue format. The ease of purchase and sheer range of choice is absolutely a winner for the industry, if perhaps not so much for the traditional Diamond distribution / specialist store dynamic.


Digital art really does pop out more, IMO. To answer dahllaz, I have Comixology to thank for getting me into comics with its availability and frequent sales. It's too bad that the app stores are gone, now. :(

Not gone - there's literally no discernible change to the buying process on Android, and from what I was shown, the iWhatever apps just have a couple of extra required keypresses in the process now; i.e. rather than click > buy > download, it's now click > basket > link to site > checkout > download. Yes, it's slightly less user friendly than it was, but it's worth the huge dint in profitability that the Apple flat 30% app cut was making.

Finally, for now, Kieran if there's going to be a poll then there should just be two options:

A) I BELONG HERE

and

B) MY NAME IS K_FROST AND I AM ADDICTED TO POLLS

>.>

~♥

Sprite
05-02-2014, 04:06 AM
Not gone - there's literally no discernible change to the buying process on Android, and from what I was shown, the iWhatever apps just have a couple of extra required keypresses in the process now; i.e. rather than click > buy > download, it's now click > basket > link to site > checkout > download. Yes, it's slightly less user friendly than it was, but it's worth the huge dint in profitability that the Apple flat 30% app cut was making.

Oh, really? I haven't done anything with the new app, but I'll give it a try when I can. On another note, hello Lady A! ♥

PretenderNX01
05-02-2014, 07:23 AM
Seriously. And, I thought Luigi's thing was that he ran fast? (If all the playable characters in Super Mario 2 have the same attributes and that's all bs, I'm gonna laugh and still play the Princess, 'cause.)

I thought Mario was fast, Luigi jumped higher, Toad could lift things and the Princess floated for a bit. Making her the only female I routinely played as I could never jump at the right moment so being able to float a little further (or back so i didn't over jump) was cool. Otherwise I like playing the guys, maybe I like the control over them? :p

edit:

Mario has average stats, making him a good choice in all situations. He has no outstanding abilities, however, so he may not be the best in every situation.
Luigi has high jump, but he takes more time to pick up enemies and vegetables. He is slightly slower than average as well.
Toad is the fastest and the quickest to pick up items. He has the lowest jump in the game, however.
Princess Peach has a special float jump that allows her to gain distance after a jump or to gauge her landing. She has overall weak stats, and she is the slowest and takes the longest to pick up items.
http://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_Bros._2#Playable_characters

Viteh
05-02-2014, 07:28 AM
I thought Mario was fast, Luigi jumped higher, Toad could lift things and the Princess floated for a bit. Making her the only female I routinely played as I could never jump at the right moment so being able to float a little further (or back so i didn't over jump) was cool. Otherwise I like playing the guys, maybe I like the control over them? :p

edit:

http://www.mariowiki.com/Super_Mario_Bros._2#Playable_characters

I think it's Mario is good at everything, Luigi jumps higher, Toad is faster and Peach floats.

Kieran_Frost
05-02-2014, 07:36 AM
i always go the ladies in fighting games. Cammy from Street Fighter. Kitana/Jade in Mortal Kombat. Orchid in Killer Instinct.
my nephews are always confused why i like playing as the women~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditto! I don't know if anyone played Eternal Champions back in the day of Megadrive, but Shadow (basically Psylocke) kicked ASS and looked good doing it. In nearly all games (fighting or RPGs) I veer towards magic users/projectile fights (and that's nearly always women and effeminate men -- which is an issue for another time; but it's still a tad sexist). The h2h combat rarely excited me. All my favourite comic characters are projectile users (in ET, I used Shadow, Midknight and Xavier)

http://www.sega-16.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Eternal-Champions-Cast.gif

QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).


Mormel reporting in as well... I don't recall ever posting in the thread that was up before the reset, but I'll be checking this one out from now on. Cool to see Flanny here, didn't realize he was still active on CBR at all.

>does a polite little curtsey<
Well welcome indeed. :) *Kieran does an equally polite bow*


Chris Evans has a...well-endowed...gay brother who acts in soaps.
Draw your own conclusions! LOL
https://31.media.tumblr.com/b9f50a10c6a3219fc5e89148169aabd6/tumblr_inline_n3n5oabcpg1r37qtt.gif


Kieran: I think that's a solid piece. Women are traditionally allowed more flamboyant expression. Men in comics trend toward being too "traditional". The few men I played in RPGs were kooks, geeks, queer, or otherwise subversive. For me, I don't like the gender role constraints in comic/gaming subculture. Some of the usual male archetypes bore me.

Does that make sense?
This very much makes sense. I also find women fighting is just a lot more visicous than men. Jamie Lee Curtis vs. Tia Carerre in True Lies (1994) is waaaaaaaaaaaay more visceral and brutal than Arnie vs. the baddie.

On a side note of computer games and LGBT romances: Often in Baldur's Gate (my favourite computer game of all time) I put the "girdle of genderfication" on a female I'm romancing, which turns her into a male (since it's the only way you can have a same sex love interest)

Kieran_Frost
05-02-2014, 08:18 AM
I'm mostly str8, but I love all my LBGT friends on CBR! (Hey KF!)
And we love you for it! Hello and yo! gregyo :)


Did I miss picture sharing time lol, oh well.
Never too late to share, good poster.


Back when I played WoW I mostly played as a female. The male models just didn't look as cool.
100% agreed. Too many of the men in computers are bulked up too much, or have silly hair. It's better now more computer games let you tailor your look (to a degree).


Cool to see old names (Hi Kieran, Hi Omegastorm, Welcome Back Lady A) and new names here. I post alot of news & info, and some counseling. Im Bisexual and happy that there's a thread like this again.
Hello hello! We need yana here, stat! And I too am so happy this thread is getting so much love right now. :)


Here's a quick comic I did a couple months back, having a bit of an empathetic-laugh at folks who get obsessed with groups/perspectives that aren't their own, in that "I hate them!"/"They're always checking me out!" way. Nothing sad-funny the same way or level as a dude who obsessively thinks everyone is checking him out all the time.

http://s2.postimg.org/skgno9mjr/Fraught_With_Fear.jpg
It's not showing on my computer, is that a fault my end? Do you have a link to tumblr, or something?


Oh, and hello all. I'm Scott, and even though I'm a virgin, I identify as a bisexual because of the XXX entertainment I enjoy.
Nothing wrong with some good old XXX *wink*

galaxygnome
05-02-2014, 08:29 AM
I'm mostly lady. I say that because I've never really felt fem but don't think of myself as masculine. I just am, I guess. 'Spose that's why I think of myself as mostly neutral and kinda fluid. Gendermolasses maybe?

I feel the same way, although I have never really felt drawn to genderqueer labels either... Everything is such a commitment :( and I don't feel like I have the same internal need to be recognized as genderqueer/etc as others do, so I'm probably not, even if I don't really think of myself as feminine or masculine or womanly or manly or anything else.

anyway, HIGH FIVES!

dahllaz
05-02-2014, 08:35 AM
QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).
Don't know where I'd rank them in a top ten exactly, but Katchoo and Francine from Strangers in Paradise are way up there. I love that series and those characters.
I even named a horse Chewie after Katchoo. It was not her main nickname (obviously), but he was a gelding so Chewie worked a bit better for him. :D

Really liked Renee Montoya as well; was bummed when Gotham Central was canceled. It was around that time that I quit buying comics for years, so didn't get any issues where she was The Question.
Don't really get why DC hasn't included her in the New52 yet.

Batwoman/Kate Kane is in the ranking somewhere. Again, don't have pre-52 stuff yet, but was getting her new series. When the creative team changed I stopped though. May pick it up again, but 1) been kind of frustrated with the new52 DC overall and 2) wanted to see/read how things changed with the new team before spending the money.

t hedge coke
05-02-2014, 08:49 AM
It's not showing on my computer, is that a fault my end? Do you have a link to tumblr, or something?[/SIZE]

It may be the host site. Is this any better?

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3740/12507200395_08414fb0f4_b.jpg

Kieran_Frost
05-02-2014, 09:20 AM
Some RPGs (DC Universe Online for example) have terrible customization for females. (Though that applies to the game as a whole).
Agreed. Sometimes it gets into over-sexualisation for the women


*waves* Hiya everyone.
On the old forum, I mostly lurked at the X-boards, with forays into the Batman board periodically. Decided that this reboot of the boards was a good time to try and participate more.
So. Queer woman, kind of a homebody. Used to team rope, but had a bit of a wreck little over a year ago and just now starting to get my nerve back to get back into that. I don't bounce quite as well anymore when I hit the ground. ha!
Welcomes :)


Finally, for now, Kieran if there's going to be a poll then there should just be two options:
A) I BELONG HERE
and
B) MY NAME IS K_FROST AND I AM ADDICTED TO POLLS
>.>
~♥
*Kieran stands up slowly, he looks around the room and coughs in nervousness*

KIERAN: My name is Kieran Frost... and I have an addiction to making polls

CBR: Hi, Kieran.

Arvandor
05-02-2014, 10:02 AM
On a side note of computer games and LGBT romances: Often in Baldur's Gate (my favourite computer game of all time) I put the "girdle of genderfication" on a female I'm romancing, which turns her into a male (since it's the only way you can have a same sex love interest)

Bioware's games are great. I always play as a female, and I always play as a lesbian when possible.

(Ah, Isabella. My treacherous lovely.)

That said, I'm not sure Dragon Age took the right approach. Allowing the player to choose his own sexuality was great. But this is a world being torn apart by bigotry and prejudice of every kind. Racism, xenophobia, and religious intolerance are everywhere. Yet homophobia is conspicuous by its absence. Sleep with a knife ear, and you could be lynched in the streets. Sleep with your own gender though and nobody cares.

I just think that made no sense and was a missed opportunity for some interesting sidequests.

Lt Trouble
05-02-2014, 11:29 AM
I literally cannot understand why anyone would NOT want to play as a sexy female badass in a videogame.

I'd rather play as a tough female badass. Armor > cleavage.

dahllaz
05-02-2014, 11:34 AM
Haven't played any of the Dragon Age games yet, but looking forward to the new one coming to the next gen systems. If I were to get one for the PS3, which would be the best?

Did really enjoy the new Tomb Raider game. Playing was fun, and also liked how Lara's character progressed from scared spitless to kick butt. And maybe I just had my subtext goggles on, but I totally shipped Lara/Sam while playing too. :cool:

I would really like them to have a girl/woman as a lead in a main console game in the Assasin's Creed series too. I know there was the PS Vita game, but...man, I have enough systems already. Haha. Just couldn't turn loose of the money to by the Vita for a single game.

There's a part of me that hopes there's a sequel to The Last of Us where Ellie is the main playable character. I would loooove to play a whole game as Ellie. Though I worry about a sequel sucking. :/
I also liked how they had the character you played at in the multiplayer be random.

Sprite
05-02-2014, 11:41 AM
Haven't played any of the Dragon Age games yet, but looking forward to the new one coming to the next gen systems. If I were to get one for the PS3, which would be the best?

Did really enjoy the new Tomb Raider game. Playing was fun, and also liked how Lara's character progressed from scared spitless to kick butt. And maybe I just had my subtext goggles on, but I totally shipped Lara/Sam while playing too. :cool:

I would really like them to have a girl/woman as a lead in a main console game in the Assasin's Creed series too. I know there was the PS Vita game, but...man, I have enough systems already. Haha. Just couldn't turn loose of the money to by the Vita for a single game.

There's a part of me that hopes there's a sequel to The Last of Us where Ellie is the main playable character. I would loooove to play a whole game as Ellie. Though I worry about a sequel sucking. :/
I also liked how they had the character you played at in the multiplayer be random.

I liked Origins for what it was, though I haven't gotten to finish it. I heard that DA2's story was terrible, however.

I haven't played Tomb Raider yet, but I ship Lara/Sam too. Tumblr has corrupted me.

I also second a TLOU sequel with Ellie. She is by far one of the most well-written female characters I've seen in gaming, recently. On that note, am I the only one hoping that more shooters would have female protagonists?

Ghostwise
05-02-2014, 11:49 AM
Racism, xenophobia, and religious intolerance are everywhere. Yet homophobia is conspicuous by its absence. Sleep with a knife ear, and you could be lynched in the streets. Sleep with your own gender though and nobody cares.

Many historical societies didn't have a problem with that - as the old saw goes, heterosexuality is a relatively recent invention. So that it's not much an issue on Thedas isn't absurd.

As to the missed opportunity, I can certainly see your point. The romantic arcs in Bioware games seem more intended to have people feel happy warm fuzzy feelings, but there have been tragic ones where reality comes calling (like a female Shepard dating Thane Krios (http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=5573)).

Eli.C
05-02-2014, 11:53 AM
Only if you don't have the Citadel DLC, then the happys come right back!

In tear form.

I miss Thane.

Michael P
05-02-2014, 11:58 AM
Haven't played any of the Dragon Age games yet, but looking forward to the new one coming to the next gen systems. If I were to get one for the PS3, which would be the best?

The consensus is that Origins is better. Although I didn't find DA2 bad so much as not as good as it could have been. That was apparently down to deadline problems, so I'm hoping they learned their lesson and gave Inquisition enough development time.

Ghostwise
05-02-2014, 11:58 AM
Only if you don't have the Citadel DLC, then the happys come right back!

In tear form.

I miss Thane.

"Perfect memory. It sometimes is a burden."

Dang, I said I'd avoid Mass Effect references and quotes since it is presumably annoying for non-ME fans. I am weak.

Kieran_Frost
05-02-2014, 12:09 PM
So on the former-CBR I started a poll asking about the lack of LGBT characters in Star Trek, but I think here might be a better place to ask such a question.

QUESTION: does the lack of any LGBT cast members in Star Trek bother you?

Basically, over 5 series (all together 30 seasons), and 12 films the Star Trek-verse has never had an LGBT cast member. The only LGBT character (to my knowledge) was the evil "Dark Mirror" version of Kira in Deep Space Nine. Does this strike you as odd? Is it sending the wrong message about the absence of homosexuality in the future? And does it upset you that a series once ground-breaking (first interracial kiss on US television, several POC in all casts) is now seriously behind the times in terms of diversity and acceptance.


It may be the host site. Is this any better?

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3740/12507200395_08414fb0f4_b.jpg
Yes, that works, thank-you.


Bioware's games are great. I always play as a female, and I always play as a lesbian when possible.

(Ah, Isabella. My treacherous lovely.)

That said, I'm not sure Dragon Age took the right approach. Allowing the player to choose his own sexuality was great. But this is a world being torn apart by bigotry and prejudice of every kind. Racism, xenophobia, and religious intolerance are everywhere. Yet homophobia is conspicuous by its absence. Sleep with a knife ear, and you could be lynched in the streets. Sleep with your own gender though and nobody cares.

I just think that made no sense and was a missed opportunity for some interesting sidequests.
Never played DragonAge (wanted to, but my laptop is not powerful enough for it). Very interesting point you raised about the lack of homophobia. On the one hand that's positive, BUT on the other... it seems odd to not be included in such a world. But, as Ghostwise says; it could be linked more to ancient societies (Ancient Greek society encouraged male lovers, while being very misogynistic)


As to the missed opportunity, I can certainly see your point. The romantic arcs in Bioware games seem more intended to have people feel happy warm fuzzy feelings, but there have been tragic ones where reality comes calling (like a female Shepard dating Thane Krios (http://www.writeups.org/fiche.php?id=5573)).
I'm not sure; both Viconia and Amonen's romance in Baldur's Gate II have somewhat tragic results.

dahllaz
05-02-2014, 12:11 PM
I liked Origins for what it was, though I haven't gotten to finish it. I heard that DA2's story was terrible, however.

I haven't played Tomb Raider yet, but I ship Lara/Sam too. Tumblr has corrupted me.

I also second a TLOU sequel with Ellie. She is by far one of the most well-written female characters I've seen in gaming, recently. On that note, am I the only one hoping that more shooters would have female protagonists?
Oh. Oh man, I haven't even thought about looking for Lara or Lara/Sam stuff on Tumblr. Know what I'll be doing later!

I suck at first person shooters, but I would play the hell out of a Splinter Cell type game with a female protagonist.
Actually, that could be a cool type of game for Marvel to put out for Black Widow.

Ghostwise
05-02-2014, 12:18 PM
I'm not sure; both Viconia and Amonen's romance in Baldur's Gate II have somewhat tragic results.

Yeah, but if you ask me to remember how many romance arcs there were in BG2 to see which way goes the trend, my answer is going to be "LOOK BEHIND YOU A MONKEY !" because that was too long ago for me. :)

Tangent Man
05-02-2014, 12:42 PM
Top 10 comics characters: that changes fluidly for me, but 3 that often pop up are Moondragon, Shrinking Violet, and Storm. I agree that the Star Trek franchise should catch up! At least George Takei and Zachary Quinto are gay!

Mormel
05-02-2014, 12:50 PM
So on the former-CBR I started a poll asking about the lack of LGBT characters in Star Trek, but I think here might be a better place to ask such a question.

QUESTION: does the lack of any LGBT cast members in Star Trek bother you?

Basically, over 5 series (all together 30 seasons), and 12 films the Star Trek-verse has never had an LGBT cast member. The only LGBT character (to my knowledge) was the evil "Dark Mirror" version of Kira in Deep Space Nine. Does this strike you as odd? Is it sending the wrong message about the absence of homosexuality in the future? And does it upset you that a series once ground-breaking (first interracial kiss on US television, several POC in all casts) is now seriously behind the times in terms of diversity and acceptance.



I found it very strange, once I stopped to think about it. With the '90s Trek series TNG, DS9, and VOY, I can understand it as part of the TV zeitgeist. The fact that Enterprise chose to continue on this heterosexist road, is baffling.

With Abrams' Trek movies taking a wholly different approach to the franchise, i.e. being a lot lighter on exploration and philosophy and being more action-focused, I don't see this improve any time soon.

SpOck
05-02-2014, 02:22 PM
So on the former-CBR I started a poll asking about the lack of LGBT characters in Star Trek, but I think here might be a better place to ask such a question.

QUESTION: does the lack of any LGBT cast members in Star Trek bother you?

Basically, over 5 series (all together 30 seasons), and 12 films the Star Trek-verse has never had an LGBT cast member. The only LGBT character (to my knowledge) was the evil "Dark Mirror" version of Kira in Deep Space Nine. Does this strike you as odd? Is it sending the wrong message about the absence of homosexuality in the future? And does it upset you that a series once ground-breaking (first interracial kiss on US television, several POC in all casts) is now seriously behind the times in terms of diversity and acceptance.


Yes, that works, thank-you.


Never played DragonAge (wanted to, but my laptop is not powerful enough for it). Very interesting point you raised about the lack of homophobia. On the one hand that's positive, BUT on the other... it seems odd to not be included in such a world. But, as Ghostwise says; it could be linked more to ancient societies (Ancient Greek society encouraged male lovers, while being very misogynistic)


I'm not sure; both Viconia and Amonen's romance in Baldur's Gate II have somewhat tragic results.
I think Mirror Ezri was also a lesbian, but I can't think of anyone else.

Charmed
05-02-2014, 02:39 PM
I was never able to get into Star Trek. Or any sci-fi thing for that matter.

bert
05-02-2014, 02:49 PM
I think Mirror Ezri was also a lesbian, but I can't think of anyone else.

Brent Spiner?
George Takei?

Flight
05-02-2014, 02:54 PM
Ditto! I don't know if anyone played Eternal Champions back in the day of Megadrive, but Shadow (basically Psylocke) kicked ASS and looked good doing it. YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS~~~~~~~~~~~~ i had this game!~ & U called it a MEGADRIVE. WE'RE BRITISH BUDDIES.
Did you have Streets of Rage 2? i always went blaze. VOY-TAH

Lt Trouble
05-02-2014, 03:54 PM
I liked Origins for what it was, though I haven't gotten to finish it. I heard that DA2's story was terrible, however.

I thought DA2's story was fine, for what it was. It's just that it was.... narrower in scope, I guess. The whole story was set in one city and it's immediate surroundings, so there was none of this running around all over the map trying to get armies together. I feel like your choices had less impact on the storyline, and you could only play as a human. But I enjoyed the gameplay more, liked that it was fully voice-acted, and thought the graphics were a lot better, especially during fights (though they reused scenery way way too much). I did end my first play-through with no love interest, though, since I kept flirting with the Captain of the Guard (I think her name is Evelin?) and it turns out she's not a romanceable character.

Sprite
05-02-2014, 04:24 PM
I'd note that the lack of LGBT characters in both Star Trek and Star Wars is bothersome, and it's been something that many of it's writers seem to avoid at all costs. There are rare examples, such as Juhani's lesbianism in Knights of the Old Republic, but it often goes by ambiguity rather than anything explicit.

Scholar87
05-02-2014, 04:27 PM
I nearly exclusively play women in RPGs; mainly because the women often get cooler capes and hoods (lame, I know, but it's true). Female wizards in Balduer's Gate look epic, male wizard just look like old men. Also Zelda's the best in Smash Bros, and Peach looks like a pink Bride from Kill Bill on her bike in Mario Kart. It's all about the visuals; women can nearly always look better at men, they have more choices in their ensemble. The Oscars, actresses and what they wear is almost as big as who wins. The men = outside of a wonky bow-tie, no-one cares what we wear.


If a game gives me the option I will almost always play as a female character.

Hi everyone. I identify as gender fluid, it's something I've only recently come to terms with. For many years I was confused because I'm physically male and most days I'm fine with that yet I often feel like a woman and fantasize about living my life as one. I didn't know what to make of it until I came across a post about gender fluidity on tumblr. I've also begun cross dressing although I only do it in private when I have the house all to myself.

Kieran_Frost
05-03-2014, 01:36 AM
Yeah, but if you ask me to remember how many romance arcs there were in BG2 to see which way goes the trend, my answer is going to be "LOOK BEHIND YOU A MONKEY !" because that was too long ago for me. :)
Aerie was the sweetest (minus her monologues about torture and mutilation ;) ), Jaheira was complex (but the most rewarding) and Viconia ends with you to apart (until the 3rd). Anomen gets bitten and turned into a vampire

Loved all of it (though Aerie's was too easy to complete, and you get no extra missions due to it.


I found it very strange, once I stopped to think about it. With the '90s Trek series TNG, DS9, and VOY, I can understand it as part of the TV zeitgeist. The fact that Enterprise chose to continue on this heterosexist road, is baffling.

With Abrams' Trek movies taking a wholly different approach to the franchise, i.e. being a lot lighter on exploration and philosophy and being more action-focused, I don't see this improve any time soon.
I understand why TNG didn't (though a series once ahead of the grain should have been bolder). But I would even argue by the time of Voyager it should have happened. But yes, when Enterprise debuted, it was 2001. A missed opportunity.

The reboot was another perfect chance to be bold... *le sigh*


I think Mirror Ezri was also a lesbian, but I can't think of anyone else.
I can't remember, there was something about her "faking it" to get close to Kira BUT she also (I think) hit on herself???


Brent Spiner?
George Takei?
Is Brent Spiner gay? Also, Sulu isn't gay, nor was Takei openly gay when he was cast in Star Trek (ditto for Zachary Quintos).


YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS~~~~~~~~~~~~ i had this game!~ & U called it a MEGADRIVE. WE'RE BRITISH BUDDIES.
Did you have Streets of Rage 2? i always went blaze. VOY-TAH
LOVEEEEEEEEEEEED that game. And ditto for Blaze (though I always found Alex Stone to be hot) :P

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/123/8/0/axel_stone___street_of_rage_by_joao_ovitzke-d63z7q6.jpg

Kieran_Frost
05-03-2014, 01:42 AM
I'd note that the lack of LGBT characters in both Star Trek and Star Wars is bothersome, and it's been something that many of it's writers seem to avoid at all costs. There are rare examples, such as Juhani's lesbianism in Knights of the Old Republic, but it often goes by ambiguity rather than anything explicit.
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.

Which do you think we'll see first? A LGBT Star Trek main cast member or an LGBT hero in Marvel films ;)


If a game gives me the option I will almost always play as a female character.
Ditto. At the very least it's my natural instinct the first time I play it.


Hi everyone. I identify as gender fluid, it's something I've only recently come to terms with. For many years I was confused because I'm physically male and most days I'm fine with that yet I often feel like a woman and fantasize about living my life as one. I didn't know what to make of it until I came across a post about gender fluidity on tumblr. I've also begun cross dressing although I only do it in private when I have the house all to myself.
To be honest, I had never heard the term until very recently. I (ignorantly) assumed people felt like they were one or the other, it never occurred to me that many feel they are meant for both. Makes me think of the Two-Spirits in Native American culture.

End of Time
05-03-2014, 05:53 AM
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.


Dune... Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, an overweight gay man with an appetite for twinks... and his nephew.

t hedge coke
05-03-2014, 06:27 AM
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.

Which do you think we'll see first? A LGBT Star Trek main cast member or an LGBT hero in Marvel films ;)

I doubt we'll see either, too soon. I kinda miss Torchwood now, though.

Franchises tend to be the wrong place to look for anything but the safest of safe heteronormative bets. I mean DS9's Garak and Sisko's issues with historically inaccurate holodeck programs made Next Gen look ridiculously heteronormative and naive, but even something like ye olde muppets in space, Farscape made DS9 look stifled, because there was less of a giant brand to uphold. I can't look to Trek for diversity or even a reflection of the social reality surrounding me daily, because too many eps and movies have increasingly stabilized that the future is about white straight dudes in military service and the occasional hot woman in her underwear. Maybe a pan-Asian, pan-Indian, pan-ethnic dude can get in there for a second, but really they're all the same. (And what was up with the Starfleet officer Scotty treats like a pet in the first of the new movies? Like a pet.)

For its time, Sulu was a giant leap in all good directions, with a Japanese guy being all shirtless and flamboyant, with a real job, sex appeal, and non-stereotyped hobbies. Uhura had a job and a personality, though mostly she took orders and sat around pretty the presence was massive. Past that? They wouldn't do Picard and Q in bed, even after it was planned, Riker had that whole romance with someone who needed to pick gender and it just became an episode about heteronormative gender roles and being straight as straight can... DS9 did some interesting things but was generally a turn off for Trek fans, Voyager, Enterprise, et al were pathetic in terms of the treatment of ethnicities, cultures, etc, and it's never really advanced past there, despite the broader American society seemingly getting further along as a whole.

Original Trek represented the era it was produced in. Current Trek represents a whitewashed version of the era the original series was produced in. Asians is asians! Some Asians is white dudes! Everybody be straight and macho! Spock, quit checking out Kirk! Ladies, if you're not in a skirt, you're in your undies!

PretenderNX01
05-03-2014, 08:55 AM
QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).
I don't really have an order but I like Wiccan and Hulkling, I liked Batwoman with Rucka on and went with it with JHW3 but didn't follow after that even if they did hire a gay writer I was just too worn out of nu52 and left. My not-so-gay-but-gayish list includes pre-52 Superboy/Kon-El. He hit the pages when i was a teenager and I crushed on him then, fade and all (it was the 90s and I though he looked like Ed Furlong). Also have been a Green Lantern/Hal Jordan fan since I was a kid watching Superfriends but I like all the Lanterns.



https://31.media.tumblr.com/b9f50a10c6a3219fc5e89148169aabd6/tumblr_inline_n3n5oabcpg1r37qtt.gif

I think this was in response to the news Chris Evans has a gay brother. He is hot too:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/21/article-2312369-1968743C000005DC-796_634x907.jpg



Also, Sulu isn't gay, nor was Takei openly gay when he was cast in Star Trek (ditto for Zachary Quintos).
Sulu could be Bi though, in one timeline he met a girl and settled down and in this one he could meet a boy.



Which do you think we'll see first? A LGBT Star Trek main cast member or an LGBT hero in Marvel films ;)
I'm going to guess Marvel only because they can get away with using a known LGBT character but not bothering to depict their personal life onscreen. It's a cop-out but one Marvel can do before Trek. You said main cast for Trek and only LGBT hero in a Marvel movie. Heck Fox could cast a gay guy to play Northstar in Wolverine/X-Men/Alpha Flight and get our money for doing it even without really saying it (although as desperate as Fox is to wring every dollar out, they might say it unless the Singer suit scares them away from all gay people). Marvel/Hasbro has a Northstar toy out.


DS9 did some interesting things but was generally a turn off for Trek fans, Voyager, Enterprise, et al were pathetic in terms of the treatment of ethnicities, cultures, etc, and it's never really advanced past there, despite the broader American society seemingly getting further along as a whole.

Original Trek represented the era it was produced in. Current Trek represents a whitewashed version of the era the original series was produced in. Asians is asians! Some Asians is white dudes! Everybody be straight and macho! Spock, quit checking out Kirk! Ladies, if you're not in a skirt, you're in your undies!
Yeah, it's surprising Enterprise didn't do anything more LGB inclusive since it premiered after Ellen and Will&Grace and it wasn't too boundary pushing by then. Not surprised that since they're money-making movies again the studios are wary. Studios thing only straight, white men watch movies.

Edit: There's an interesting article with opinions by actors, Gene Rodenberry and about the block maybe being Rick Berman? JJ Abrahms claims to be shocked there were no LGBT characters but still doesn't include any in ST:ID (and Whoopi is her awesome self)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Characters_in_The_Star_Trek_Universe#LGBT_in_ Star_Trek

bert
05-03-2014, 08:58 AM
Is Brent Spiner gay? Also, Sulu isn't gay, nor was Takei openly gay when he was cast in Star Trek (ditto for Zachary Quintos).


I actually forgot about Zachary -- but yeah, he actually WAS out when cast in the Trek films as Spock.

(he came out during "Heroes". . tho not a whole lot of media outlets picked up on it.

As to Spiner. . . the answer is "yes". . it's one of those Hollywood Open Secrets, similar to Jodie Foster (who just married her girlfriend a couple of weeks back) :)

bert
05-03-2014, 09:00 AM
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.



What about Captain Jack?

or Ianto from Torchwood? (both Bisexual, but absolutely front and center characters, on Doctor Who/Torchwood).

Sprite
05-03-2014, 09:06 AM
As to Spiner. . . the answer is "yes". . it's one of those Hollywood Open Secrets, similar to Jodie Foster (who just married her girlfriend a couple of weeks back) :)

Jodie Foster is gay? I didn't even know, how awesome! :)

Ebon
05-03-2014, 09:06 AM
What about Captain Jack?
or Ianto from Torchwood? (both Bisexual, but absolutely front and center characters, on Doctor Who/Torchwood).

And The Doctor himself.

bert
05-03-2014, 09:08 AM
And The Doctor himself.

yes, but much more of a story point (and referenced to) with the Captain :)

bert
05-03-2014, 09:11 AM
Jodie Foster is gay? I didn't even know, how awesome! :)

yep.

she chose not to speak about it for years and years, and then last year, thanked her girlfriend in an acceptance speech, and then just recently:

https://encrypted-tbn1.************/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTagHNej_beOjJrLuqlyHSHg1wz9T42T mhpeZlcWciXBkM5KmbF

CONGRATS to her.

(and Lilly Tomlin too, who also just recently married her longtime girlfriend)

Ebon
05-03-2014, 09:23 AM
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.

There's David Gerrold's Star Wolf series, which has at least a couple of gay crewmembers (in fact, this is a rewrite of a Star Trek TNG story he submitted that had a couple of gay crewmewmbers. This submission got him banned from the Star Trek franchise by the then-current showrunners)

There's Ethan of Athos, a book set in the Vorkosigan universe, where an entire planet of men exists because when the stand-alone womb was invented they discarded the idea of having women around.

The assassin in Caprica; he's married to a man.
Inara on Firefly was bisexual.
Susan Ivanova, second in command on Babylon 5, was a lesbian.

t hedge coke
05-03-2014, 09:53 AM
Once you get out of TV or larger budget movies into low-budget flicks, or SF prose & comics, you end up with more variety of sexualities almost immediately, mostly a result of those having a lower profile and less money invested, I'd assume. The Invisibles, A, A', the later half of Heinlein's output, Dhalgren... the Authority, overall, were a mix of various sexual preferences and identities, from Apollo and Midnighter's you and me against the world, to Swift's bisexuality and fetishizing of youth, Angie's difficulty with accepting her post-human state and relations with other superhumans, or the Doctor (the Dutch one) and his various fetishes & porn that indulges them.

Lt Trouble
05-03-2014, 10:33 AM
Yeah, it's surprising Enterprise didn't do anything more LGB inclusive since it premiered after Ellen and Will&Grace and it wasn't too boundary pushing by then. Not surprised that since they're money-making movies again the studios are wary. Studios thing only straight, white men watch movies.

I saw an interview with, uh, I forget his name, the guy that played Reed, saying that Reed was supposed to be gay but the studio nixed it at the last minute, for whatever that's worth.

End of Time
05-03-2014, 12:48 PM
For the longest time I figured Harry Kim on Voyager was meant to be gay, with some sort of weird crush on Tom Paris...

Scarlet Frost
05-03-2014, 12:51 PM
i feel the same way, although i have never really felt drawn to genderqueer labels either... Everything is such a commitment :( and i don't feel like i have the same internal need to be recognized as genderqueer/etc as others do, so i'm probably not, even if i don't really think of myself as feminine or masculine or womanly or manly or anything else.

Anyway, high fives!

muah dahlink

That was supposed to be a gif damn it

Scarlet Frost
05-03-2014, 01:02 PM
QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).


[/SIZE]




Hrm, Batwoman and Phyla-Vel are the only ones that come to mind right now. I had to give up comics because of more pressing matters of being an adult happened.

Scarlet Frost
05-03-2014, 01:09 PM
I'm trying to think of LGBT characters in sci-fi... fantasy I think we see more examples. I mean even Battlestar Galactica (arguably the greatest sci-fi series) had Admiral Kane... and that was it. Doctor Who has the Sherlock Holmes/alien lesbian couple.



Madame Vastra is not an alien, she is a lizard lady from the dawn of time. It's the potato that's the alien.

Kieran_Frost
05-03-2014, 01:30 PM
Franchises tend to be the wrong place to look for anything but the safest of safe heteronormative bets. I mean DS9's Garak and Sisko's issues with historically inaccurate holodeck programs made Next Gen look ridiculously heteronormative and naive, but even something like ye olde muppets in space, Farscape made DS9 look stifled, because there was less of a giant brand to uphold. I can't look to Trek for diversity or even a reflection of the social reality surrounding me daily, because too many eps and movies have increasingly stabilized that the future is about white straight dudes in military service and the occasional hot woman in her underwear. Maybe a pan-Asian, pan-Indian, pan-ethnic dude can get in there for a second, but really they're all the same. (And what was up with the Starfleet officer Scotty treats like a pet in the first of the new movies? Like a pet.)
I agree we shouldn't generally look for great diversity in franchises (just look at Star Wars = originals 1 woman, 1 black guy... the new ones, how times change ;) ); BUT Star Trek wasn't like that. It was ahead of it's time, with not one but THREE minority males and a black female (and the first interracial kiss on US television). And the trend continued, compared to nearly all sci-fi; Star Trek has had a lot of great diversity in race and gender.


I don't really have an order but I like Wiccan and Hulkling, I liked Batwoman with Rucka on and went with it with JHW3 but didn't follow after that even if they did hire a gay writer I was just too worn out of nu52 and left. My not-so-gay-but-gayish list includes pre-52 Superboy/Kon-El. He hit the pages when i was a teenager and I crushed on him then, fade and all (it was the 90s and I though he looked like Ed Furlong). Also have been a Green Lantern/Hal Jordan fan since I was a kid watching Superfriends but I like all the Lanterns.
They are my favourite comic couple of all time.


Sulu could be Bi though, in one timeline he met a girl and settled down and in this one he could meet a boy.
Agreed; it would be fitting even, if the first openly LGBT cast member was the new Sulu (as a homage to George Takai).


I'm going to guess Marvel only because they can get away with using a known LGBT character but not bothering to depict their personal life onscreen. It's a cop-out but one Marvel can do before Trek. You said main cast for Trek and only LGBT hero in a Marvel movie. Heck Fox could cast a gay guy to play Northstar in Wolverine/X-Men/Alpha Flight and get our money for doing it even without really saying it (although as desperate as Fox is to wring every dollar out, they might say it unless the Singer suit scares them away from all gay people). Marvel/Hasbro has a Northstar toy out.
I'm surprised, considering how the X-films are a giant LGBT metaphor under Singer, and how he, Ian McKellan and Alan Cumming are all openly LGBT... that we haven't had Northstar in the films (or even Anole or Bling! in a cameo at the school).


Edit: There's an interesting article with opinions by actors, Gene Rodenberry and about the block maybe being Rick Berman? JJ Abrahms claims to be shocked there were no LGBT characters but still doesn't include any in ST:ID (and Whoopi is her awesome self)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Characters_in_The_Star_Trek_Universe#LGBT_in_ Star_Trek
Thank-you so much for this, it's fascinating. BUT enraging. The number of times they have had this pointed out, and the number of times they say it will be tackled... and yet here we are. Disappointing to say the least.


I actually forgot about Zachary -- but yeah, he actually WAS out when cast in the Trek films as Spock.
(he came out during "Heroes". . tho not a whole lot of media outlets picked up on it.
No, he came out Oct 16th 2011 in response to the death of Jamey Rodemeyer; here's a link to his own website where he came out.

http://www.zacharyquinto.com/news/2011/10/post.html


As to Spiner. . . the answer is "yes". . it's one of those Hollywood Open Secrets, similar to Jodie Foster (who just married her girlfriend a couple of weeks back) :)
So he isn't out then.


Jodie Foster is gay? I didn't even know, how awesome! :)
She came out at the Golden Globes this year. It was a very cool speech. Ellen Page came out in the past year too.

bert
05-03-2014, 01:45 PM
From a story on HuffPo:

Quinto has long been an advocate for gay rights -- he performed in a 2009 staging of "The Laramie Project: 10 Years Later" and appeared at a banquet for the cause that same weekend, and put out an "It Gets Better" video the next year. That often fed into speculation over his sexuality, as did the fact that he's played a number of gay roles, and is doing so again in his latest television show, "American Horror Story."

he was basically out.

an open secret in Hollywood is out. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but regardless, it's a good thing.


(same thing with Spiner)

Kieran_Frost
05-03-2014, 02:23 PM
From a story on HuffPo:
Quinto has long been an advocate for gay rights -- he performed in a 2009 staging of "The Laramie Project: 10 Years Later" and appeared at a banquet for the cause that same weekend, and put out an "It Gets Better" video the next year. That often fed into speculation over his sexuality, as did the fact that he's played a number of gay roles, and is doing so again in his latest television show, "American Horror Story."
he was basically out.
an open secret in Hollywood is out. Sorry if you don't agree with that, but regardless, it's a good thing.
(same thing with Spiner)
a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? ;) )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

Sprite
05-03-2014, 02:52 PM
She came out at the Golden Globes this year. It was a very cool speech. Ellen Page came out in the past year too.

I already knew about Ellen Page, and I've become such a huge fan of her. The speech she made at HRCF was so powerful and admirable to me. :)


QUESTION: how many of your (let's say "Top 10") favourite comic characters are LGBT?

To answer the question myself, Wiccan (2nd), Daken (8th) and Loki (9th) are the only three LGBT characters in my list (and, Loki was in BEFORE he was outed).



Among my favorite comic characters, there's Batwoman (my #1 DC character), Wiccan, Hulkling, Xavin, MAC and Loki. I've always felt that Marvel's made a better effort towards LGBT representation within the big two.

bert
05-03-2014, 03:52 PM
a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? ;) )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

we'll just have to agree to disagree.

anyone who was paying attention, or followed Hollywood/Pop Culture knew he was out.

(same with NPH, Jodie Foster, Lilly Tomlin, Kevin Spacey). Only one of how has "officially" come out.
Yep, even Foster, who married her girlfriend last weekend hasn't officially come out -- I think it was you who mentioned the Globes? Read her speech again, she never says "I'm an out Lesbian"

tho Raven-Symone did recently come out as Bisexual, I believe (even tho she's in a Lesbian relationship).

as I said, we'll just have to disagree, but an Open-secret is not a secret to those who pay attention.

Kieran_Frost
05-03-2014, 04:42 PM
I already knew about Ellen Page, and I've become such a huge fan of her. The speech she made at HRCF was so powerful and admirable to me. :)
Her speech was really beautiful, agreed. We can't post videos here any more, but I encourage everyone to see it. It's honest, eloquent and from the heart.


Among my favorite comic characters, there's Batwoman (my #1 DC character), Wiccan, Hulkling, Xavin, MAC and Loki. I've always felt that Marvel's made a better effort towards LGBT representation within the big two.
MAC is so amazing (as is Wiccan, Loki and Hulkling). Have you read anything with Daken in it? He's basically like Loki but he feels no guilt.

SpOck
05-03-2014, 06:35 PM
Aerie was the sweetest (minus her monologues about torture and mutilation ;) ), Jaheira was complex (but the most rewarding) and Viconia ends with you to apart (until the 3rd). Anomen gets bitten and turned into a vampire

Loved all of it (though Aerie's was too easy to complete, and you get no extra missions due to it.


I understand why TNG didn't (though a series once ahead of the grain should have been bolder). But I would even argue by the time of Voyager it should have happened. But yes, when Enterprise debuted, it was 2001. A missed opportunity.

The reboot was another perfect chance to be bold... *le sigh*


I can't remember, there was something about her "faking it" to get close to Kira BUT she also (I think) hit on herself???


Is Brent Spiner gay? Also, Sulu isn't gay, nor was Takei openly gay when he was cast in Star Trek (ditto for Zachary Quintos).


LOVEEEEEEEEEEEED that game. And ditto for Blaze (though I always found Alex Stone to be hot) :P

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/123/8/0/axel_stone___street_of_rage_by_joao_ovitzke-d63z7q6.jpg
At the end of the DS9 Mirror episode, Esri hits on Rom's wife in the normal universe (whose name escapes me at the moment). Rom then said that he wanted to go home.

Spike-X
05-03-2014, 06:38 PM
a) supporting gay rights doesn't make you gay or mean you are secretly closeted (so being an advocate for gay rights doesn't mean you are "out" -- is Obama "out" by that logic? ;) )
b) he wasn't out. Fact. He came out in 2011 (that is according to Zachary Quintos himself)
c) "basically out" (as in rumours, let's be honest) isn't out. Plenty of straight celebrities have gay rumours, are they also "out"?

Serious question - does somebody in Hollywood have to hold a press conference before they're considered out?

Spike-X
05-03-2014, 06:39 PM
Her speech was really beautiful, agreed. We can't post videos here any more, but I encourage everyone to see it. It's honest, eloquent and from the heart.


We can link to them, we just can't embed them.

t hedge coke
05-03-2014, 08:40 PM
Serious question - does somebody in Hollywood have to hold a press conference before they're considered out?

Pretty much.

I never really thought Quinto was hiding anything, in that respect, but for many, if you're in entertainment at at all, unless you make a formal statement, or you put it in every bio and interview, you're not "out." (But, I may, also, have just really wanted him to be gay. Projecting. Maybe he was obscuring it.)

Tangent Man
05-03-2014, 10:10 PM
Zachay Quinto never really hid his sexual orientation. However, Quinto emphatically publicized a "coming out" because he wanted gay teens to readily have an identifiable face as proof that it really DOES get better.

t hedge coke
05-03-2014, 10:37 PM
Zachay Quinto never really hid his sexual orientation. However, Quinto emphatically publicized a "coming out" because he wanted gay teens to readily have an identifiable face as proof that it really DOES get better.

That makes sense.

Announcements and visibility are important, especially for youth (though not limited to them).

There is a (growing?) culture that feels full disclosure is necessary, that I can't quite groove with. The people who feel Samuel Delany is closeted for not announcing he's gay and black on every dustjacket or are more or less angry that Joan Jett won't put a name on her sexuality (outside of "J'aime faire I'amour sur tout a trois," I suppose). When I used to be nearer Southern California, from WeHo to Palm Desert that seemed to be such a big deal among the under-thirties set.

Now, if someone is actively obscuring the issue, that can be a disservice, I think, especially if they're quite prominent at the moment. Or, if they're closeted and spreading/promoting hate or oppressive laws.

Tangent Man
05-03-2014, 10:58 PM
Read Signorile's Queer In America for perspective on coming out and outing high-profile people. The book came out in '93, and it's interesting comparing the cultural state of homosexuality then and now.

PretenderNX01
05-03-2014, 11:49 PM
Serious question - does somebody in Hollywood have to hold a press conference before they're considered out?

Not a press conference per say :p but you do have to acknowledge it in public to be "out". If you refuse to talk about it in any interview, you're not out. Quinto for a while would say that his private life was private and not speak about it, thus Keiron saying he wasn't "out".

"Quinto, who has been outspoken on gay rights issues in the past, told The New York Times last year that even though blogs were full of speculation about his orientation, he preferred “not to feed the rumor mill with either substantiation or dismissal.”"
http://www.mtv.com/news/1672610/zachary-quinto-gay/

"Open secret" is still trying to hold onto it being secret, "basically out" is still basically in. Either you're fine with everyone knowing, or your not. It's his choice either way but he wasn't out at the time of the first Star Trek, he was for the second and by then no one seemed to care which is cool.

Sutekh
05-04-2014, 12:59 AM
So on the former-CBR I started a poll asking about the lack of LGBT characters in Star Trek, but I think here might be a better place to ask such a question.
QUESTION: does the lack of any LGBT cast members in Star Trek bother you?

Basically, over 5 series (all together 30 seasons), and 12 films the Star Trek-verse has never had an LGBT cast member. The only LGBT character (to my knowledge) was the evil "Dark Mirror" version of Kira in Deep Space Nine. Does this strike you as odd? Is it sending the wrong message about the absence of homosexuality in the future? And does it upset you that a series once ground-breaking (first interracial kiss on US television, several POC in all casts) is now seriously behind the times in terms of diversity and acceptance.

It seemed, for a time, that the Star Trek series were following some sort of progressive formula. Next Gen, just throw it all out there (with robots and Klingons and handicapped people on the crew, and an *old* Captain, very much the un-Kirk). DS9, a black captain (and some shades of gender-role-subversion with Jadzia Dax, swaggering around the place in a 20-something female body, but still carrying herself and acting more like the 80-year old dude she was so recently). Voyager, a woman captain. And then Enterprise was announced, and it just seemed obvious to me that Scott Bakula would be the next in line, playing a gay captain. Those first episodes, with him inviting Trip into his quarters so they could watch the manly sport of water polo together, and I was 'Wow, they are really going to do it!' And then nothing. The snippy Brit wearing too much lip gloss doesn't count.

So yeah, really kind of disappointing. Star Trek has always been a place to push boundaries and showcase a brighter future. That some fiction tends to introduce gay characters (like Mirror Universe Kira) as 'depraved bisexuals,' associating non-traditional attraction or gender roles with 'badness' or 'one of the ways we can see how wrong they are,' only makes things worse.

Kieran_Frost
05-04-2014, 03:28 AM
There is a (growing?) culture that feels full disclosure is necessary, that I can't quite groove with. The people who feel Samuel Delany is closeted for not announcing he's gay and black on every dustjacket or are more or less angry that Joan Jett won't put a name on her sexuality (outside of "J'aime faire I'amour sur tout a trois," I suppose). When I used to be nearer Southern California, from WeHo to Palm Desert that seemed to be such a big deal among the under-thirties set.
It's not about constantly talking about it, but it's about being openly LGBT if you are; and yes it's for the kids. It's for the kids in school struggling with their sexuality, who have very few role models to look to; and every time they see Hollywood stars being praised they are always straight. It's about the guy on the sports team coming out to his squad, because it's okay and normal for major sports players to be openly LGBT. It's about the woman who wants to bring her girlfriend to the office Christmas party, but fears in this day and age it will still be "big news."

Society is (sadly, in some ways) ruled by celebritism. And right now the message across the world is the biggest, most famous, most successful, beloved are idolised stars are nearly all straight (I mean... they're NOT, but as far as we know they are). That should change. The lead characters in action films or franchise films = straight. Nearly all TV shows, the lead is = straight. And IF the lead is gay, it's because the show is "about being gay." It can't just be a cop show, where the lead happens to be gay.

One day it won't matter, one day if a star (who is LGBT) doesn't want to discuss it, fine. But right now kids have so few role models, 'men's sport' has so few (RE: nearly no) openly LGBT players; and society in general still sees a celebrity "coming out" as BIG news (because it is - because it's still very rare and 'unusual'). It matters. People need heroes and champions, and right now too much of Hollywood, too much of sport, too much of 'celebrity' is in the closet. That needs to change. Players shouldn't feel the need to hide who they are (some are choosing to be private, yes; but too many are being TOLD to keep it private -- if you come out it'll effect your career, people want want to see a show with you in it, etc). And that won't change until being LGBT and famous isn't an anomaly, or a rarity. And that won't change until the major stars start coming out more.


Not a press conference per say :p but you do have to acknowledge it in public to be "out". If you refuse to talk about it in any interview, you're not out. Quinto for a while would say that his private life was private and not speak about it, thus Keiron saying he wasn't "out".

"Quinto, who has been outspoken on gay rights issues in the past, told The New York Times last year that even though blogs were full of speculation about his orientation, he preferred “not to feed the rumor mill with either substantiation or dismissal.”"
http://www.mtv.com/news/1672610/zachary-quinto-gay/

"Open secret" is still trying to hold onto it being secret, "basically out" is still basically in. Either you're fine with everyone knowing, or your not. It's his choice either way but he wasn't out at the time of the first Star Trek, he was for the second and by then no one seemed to care which is cool.
Beautiful put, far more eloquent that I achieved above.


It seemed, for a time, that the Star Trek series were following some sort of progressive formula. Next Gen, just throw it all out there (with robots and Klingons and handicapped people on the crew, and an *old* Captain, very much the un-Kirk). DS9, a black captain (and some shades of gender-role-subversion with Jadzia Dax, swaggering around the place in a 20-something female body, but still carrying herself and acting more like the 80-year old dude she was so recently). Voyager, a woman captain. And then Enterprise was announced, and it just seemed obvious to me that Scott Bakula would be the next in line, playing a gay captain. Those first episodes, with him inviting Trip into his quarters so they could watch the manly sport of water polo together, and I was 'Wow, they are really going to do it!' And then nothing. The snippy Brit wearing too much lip gloss doesn't count.

So yeah, really kind of disappointing. Star Trek has always been a place to push boundaries and showcase a brighter future. That some fiction tends to introduce gay characters (like Mirror Universe Kira) as 'depraved bisexuals,' associating non-traditional attraction or gender roles with 'badness' or 'one of the ways we can see how wrong they are,' only makes things worse.
Exactly, and agreed. I'll never forget when Patrick Stewart was announced as the Captain, someone asked Gene R "but in the 24th century won't they have a cure for baldness?" and Gene R replied: "no, in the 24th century, it won't matter." And THAT was beautiful. And THAT is why the lack of LGBT characters in Star Trek is so upsetting; because that mentality should 100% apply to LGBT people, and yet it doesn't. One of (if not THE) best franchise at promoting a racial diverse cast, with numerous females, and not just in the "hot lady" roles. Disappointing.

Lady_Alternate
05-04-2014, 03:42 AM
The consensus is that Origins is better. Although I didn't find DA2 bad so much as not as good as it could have been. That was apparently down to deadline problems, so I'm hoping they learned their lesson and gave Inquisition enough development time.

Out of hospital, so I can answer! I'm a terrible heretic, as I preferred DA2 in almost every respect; especially gameplay. While the maps and dungeon layouts in DA2 were horribly repetitive, I much preferred the more action orientated playstyle while on the PS3.

Having long been an MMORPG player (and a tragically hardcore one at that, to my present shame) I had little love for DA:O's wannabe MMO mechanics awkwardly tied on to a post-Neverwinter Nights interface. Add to the fact that I chose a female Dwarven ranged Rogue for my first playthrough and therefore the section in The Fade was actually impossible. I am aware that was fixed in later patches, but I am still proud of the apologetic email response from the devs to my polite but scathing letter about it at the time.

I liked the DA2 story, as I'm happy with what it achieved. I don't think every story HAS to set out to span and change the destiny of entire civilizations. It was compelling, varied (especially if you made the effort to complete each companions personal quests) and had you make some pretty hard choices. I felt a greater kinship and attachment to my sister in DA2 than I did to any of the DA:O characters, and I wouldn't swap my gentle, tender and experimental lesbian romance with Merrill for the world.

Supernature
05-04-2014, 01:56 PM
Ha !

I'm a gay dude and 90% of my fave characters in all media are girls.

Comics: Storm, Emma Frost, Psylocke, Kitty, Rogue, Dazzler, Rachel Grey, Magik, Black Widow, Catwoman
Games: Lili, Nina and Anna from Tekken, Ivy from Soul Calibur, Lara Croft, Miranda, Samara and EDI from Mass Effect
Movies: Elle Woods, Ellen Ripley, The Bride

And so on.

I think it's mostly just due to the fact that heterosexual male wish fulfillment doesn't speak to me at all.

bert
05-04-2014, 03:03 PM
or are more or less angry that Joan Jett won't put a name on her sexuality (outside of "J'aime faire I'amour sur tout a trois," I suppose).

I met Joan Jett at a store signing in the mid 80's (Cactus Records and Tapes, in Sharpstown Mall in Houston,Tx).

I clearly remember what she was wearing (a purple leather jumpsuit), thinking that "wow, is she TINY" (she's really short), and that she announced to the crowd, "thank you for coming out to see a dyke who rocks!"

so she's another one, that yes, I'd consider as an "open-secret". . . she doesn't hide anything, tho never has explicitly stated anything.

(and yeah, I bought the record and had her sign it. . . LOL. . I "believe" it's this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/Glorious_Results.jpg/220px-Glorious_Results.jpg

tho I'd have to dig thru all my records to be sure.


(I didn't get into the Runaways until slightly later, tho I instantly became a huge Lita Ford fan)

Greg
05-04-2014, 03:09 PM
Jeez, 12 pages already?? :eek:

Kieran_Frost
05-04-2014, 04:02 PM
I'm a gay dude and 90% of my fave characters in all media are girls.
I think it's mostly just due to the fact that heterosexual male wish fulfillment doesn't speak to me at all.
Ditto! I never saw the appeal; which is why things like who can bench the most, who won't back down, p*ssing conests etc never matters to me.


There is a (growing?) culture that feels full disclosure is necessary, that I can't quite groove with. The people who feel Samuel Delany is closeted for not announcing he's gay and black on every dustjacket or are more or less angry that Joan Jett won't put a name on her sexuality (outside of "J'aime faire I'amour sur tout a trois," I suppose). When I used to be nearer Southern California, from WeHo to Palm Desert that seemed to be such a big deal among the under-thirties set.
Something that occurred to me just now: why does keeping your sexuality as a private issue matter? If you think about it heterosexuality isn't "private." Society assumes you are straight unless otherwise stated (straight privilege), so in the vast majority of instances you are assumed to be straight (and the one assuming would, in most cases, be right). So heterosexuality isn't private. Why is homosexuality? And the only conclusion I could draw is (sadly) shame.


Jeez, 12 pages already?? :eek:
Yey us! :)

Charmed
05-04-2014, 04:34 PM
Something that occurred to me just now: why does keeping your sexuality as a private issue matter? If you think about it heterosexuality isn't "private." Society assumes you are straight unless otherwise stated (straight privilege), so in the vast majority of instances you are assumed to be straight (and the one assuming would, in most cases, be right). So heterosexuality isn't private. Why is homosexuality? And the only conclusion I could draw is (sadly) shame.


That happened to me yesterday, and I regret not setting the guy straight (ugh that pun was unintentional, I swear.)

I was taking a driving lesson, and the instructor guy asked me if I had a girlfriend. So, I told him no, which is the truth, but I didn't tell him the reason why I have never had a girlfriend, nor the reason why I'll never have a girlfriend. I wanted to say "I don't have a girlfriend. The reason why is because I'm gay.", but I didn't want to get into a possible debate with an elderly instructor (who told me he was very religious) on whether or not my sexual orientation is natural or not, while driving a student vehicle that does not belong to me. (Also, being trapped in the car with him for the 2 hour lesson).

He could have had no problem with it, especially considering that I'm paying him about 60 bucks for the lesson, but I chickened out (because of what I typed earlier and under the assumption that I'll never see him again, so why give him information about myself that will likely cause a confrontation and/or awkwardness).

t hedge coke
05-04-2014, 04:48 PM
Something that occurred to me just now: why does keeping your sexuality as a private issue matter? If you think about it heterosexuality isn't "private." Society assumes you are straight unless otherwise stated (straight privilege), so in the vast majority of instances you are assumed to be straight (and the one assuming would, in most cases, be right). So heterosexuality isn't private. Why is homosexuality? And the only conclusion I could draw is (sadly) shame.

Right. And, I get that.

Where it rankles me is when it becomes people demanding proof or making it almost competitive. "Come out now! Be dating someone (one person) and bring them everywhere! Now!" It's a complicated arena.

Presence is important, in any case. Verification/Level Tests, however...

Power Torch
05-04-2014, 11:20 PM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

Flamebird
05-05-2014, 12:52 AM
no one comments on my "walking on air" picture?

goes to the corner and cries!

IT'S LIKE A SMITHS SONG UP IN HERE!!!!!

Cool pic, but it gave me vertigo.

Greg
05-05-2014, 04:47 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

I've only gone once, about 2 years ago. One of my female best friends, who is bisexual, finally talked me into going with her. I had a lot of fun. Was the first time I ever did something like that (that isn't Halloween) and went to bars/clubs and had a good time.

Scarlet Frost
05-05-2014, 05:33 AM
Not a press conference per say :p but you do have to acknowledge it in public to be "out". If you refuse to talk about it in any interview, you're not out. Quinto for a while would say that his private life was private and not speak about it, thus Keiron saying he wasn't "out".

"Quinto, who has been outspoken on gay rights issues in the past, told The New York Times last year that even though blogs were full of speculation about his orientation, he preferred “not to feed the rumor mill with either substantiation or dismissal.”"
http://www.mtv.com/news/1672610/zachary-quinto-gay/

"Open secret" is still trying to hold onto it being secret, "basically out" is still basically in. Either you're fine with everyone knowing, or your not. It's his choice either way but he wasn't out at the time of the first Star Trek, he was for the second and by then no one seemed to care which is cool.

Quinto saying his private life is private is pretty much saying, who I'm doing is less important that what I'm doing.

End of Time
05-05-2014, 07:12 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

I went to Amsterdam pride

Biggest pride-thing in this country at least. It was fun, slutting around in public still feels a bit weird. It helps that it's not an overly sexual-thing. Yeah sure you have a couple of over-the-top entries, but most of the boats are pretty subdued. If the weather is good at least you get to look at cute shirtless guys. I guess it's different here than it is in America, we lack the overbearing religious right to spoil the fun with talk of hellfire and jesus... all the major political parties have their own entry.

Sprite
05-05-2014, 07:25 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

Never been to one, but I have attended my local college's GSA and their local events. I had a lot of fun with it, and I've made a few friends from it. Has anyone else been with a GSA group in the past?

Power Torch
05-05-2014, 08:05 AM
Thanks for letting me know guys, I have been really interested in going this year....but still, I don't know.



Never been to one, but I have attended my local college's GSA and their local events. I had a lot of fun with it, and I've made a few friends from it. Has anyone else been with a GSA group in the past?
I was not active in my highschool GSA, cause I was not out. But I am very active with my college LGBTQA club, I am the vice president lol.

galaxygnome
05-05-2014, 08:58 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

My dad took me to pride when I was a wee lil'un (he identifies as gay). The only times I have gone to pride as a "grown-up" were:

1) at the end of my first year out - i.e. my freshman year of college. I followed it up with some pride parties, and it was nuts. Not something an introvert like me could do often, for sure... but something I think everyone oughta experience once.

2) last summer while I was spending a summer in Albany, NY, I made a trip down to NYC for pride. Albany gets pretty dire, so there was a definite need to go out, mix it up. I was surprised to find that NYC pride, both in the parade itself and the events at bars after, was far more tame than Chicago's pride. The parade, at least, was worth visiting. Not so much ~~crazy stuff~~, lots of things more on the spectrum of political activism and community support. It was LONG, but also instilled sort of warm nice happy feelings of remolding the norm, not being isolated, having a wider and supportive community, etc.

t hedge coke
05-05-2014, 09:47 AM
I've done pride stuff in a few cities, but I'm not a real parade guy. I like them for five minutes, but then there better be booths, shows, or good stores nearby... food... something. Mostly, if I go, it's a sense of duty thing.

End of Time
05-05-2014, 10:49 AM
(he identifies as gay).

So he isn't gay? Or he is?

Sprite
05-05-2014, 10:51 AM
So he isn't gay? Or he is?

He is. He just stated his sexuality.

darima80
05-05-2014, 10:55 AM
A bit late, but here I am. Didn't know we had one of these at CBR. Hello everyone! Gay male here.

anon_me
05-05-2014, 11:04 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

I think it's good to go at least once for the experience; I'm totally not a party/parade kind of guy but since I live near the gay village, I usually stroll out to at least once during Pride weekend to take in the spectacle. Plus it's Worldpride in Toronto this year so that will be interesting.

Lt Trouble
05-05-2014, 12:22 PM
Never been to one, but I have attended my local college's GSA and their local events. I had a lot of fun with it, and I've made a few friends from it. Has anyone else been with a GSA group in the past?

Yeah, my high school (I think it was actually the counseling office) starting one near the end of my sophmore year (that would've been '01). I ended up being president my senior year, basically because nobody else would. I'm not really a leadership person, and we didn't really do anything that year except watch some movies and hang out and do Day of Silence, but I think just having it exist as a safe space did a lot of good.

Lt Trouble
05-05-2014, 12:27 PM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

I went to the DC one a couple times when I lived closer. Where I live now just started one last year (which I didn't even know about until recently), so I think I'll go to this year's one if work doesn't conflict.

Lt Trouble
05-05-2014, 12:33 PM
So heterosexuality isn't private. Why is homosexuality? And the only conclusion I could draw is (sadly) shame.

Or fear of consequences. I mean, like, it's an "open secret" that Shepard Smith on Fox News is gay. But can you imagine the professional consequences he'd face if he came out publicly? He's a Fox News host! He'd probably lose his show.

Fokken
05-06-2014, 07:17 AM
Hullo gays, etc.
I am of the gay as well.

What up, KF. How you livin'?

Sprite
05-06-2014, 07:22 AM
Or fear of consequences. I mean, like, it's an "open secret" that Shepard Smith on Fox News is gay. But can you imagine the professional consequences he'd face if he came out publicly? He's a Fox News host! He'd probably lose his show.

There's also the physical danger and family-related consequences that comes with coming out, what with the many cases of people getting beaten, raped or killed in hate crimes, or kids and teens getting tossed out into the streets or verbally/physically abused by their parents.

thespianphryne
05-06-2014, 07:49 AM
Or fear of consequences. I mean, like, it's an "open secret" that Shepard Smith on Fox News is gay. But can you imagine the professional consequences he'd face if he came out publicly? He's a Fox News host! He'd probably lose his show.

Funny thing is, Smith has been outed multiple times including on his own show. But the network essentially strong armed him into not making any public statement (http://gawker.com/nope-fox-news-really-did-shove-shepard-smith-back-into-1571607248). Why he's so dedicated to them is beyond my ken.

Gryphon
05-06-2014, 09:44 AM
https://www.americarisingpac.org/democrat-scott-peters-posts-article-calling-openly-gay-opponent-mary/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=20140506_arpac-p-scott-peters-post-mary-comment_twitter&utm_content=arpac

Democrat Scott Peters Posts Article Calling Openly Gay Opponent “Mary”

And he is continuing to do it on twitter and trying to Justify his actions

https://twitter.com/Timodc/status/463710093515976704

Tangent Man
05-06-2014, 12:43 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

And how about former drag queen "Miss Lola Sinclair" running on a GOP ballot in the South?

Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p

thespianphryne
05-06-2014, 01:01 PM
*Mona Sinclair*

He's not against equal rights for gay people, he just thinks religious people shouldn't have their rights taken away by queers infringing on the definition of marriage!

Tangent Man
05-06-2014, 01:04 PM
*Mona Sinclair*

He's not against equal rights for gay people, he just thinks religious people shouldn't have their rights taken away by queers infringing on the definition of marriage!

Poor, put-upon Christians! :( We're practically throwing 'em to the lions these days!

anon_me
05-06-2014, 01:39 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p

Toronto has a main parade as well as a couple of smaller ones, there's a street party (vendors, stages, beer gardens, etc.) in the gay village for the weekend, and various events in venues across the city. You can check out what they have planned this year (http://www.worldpridetoronto.com/).

I like Gwen....pre-Osborn pregnancy.

galaxygnome
05-06-2014, 02:14 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

I didn't realize this wasn't typically the case until I saw NYC's pride, but Chicago's parade doesn't happen downtown. To be fair, our downtown isn't really where people go to have fun on the weekends/etc either. Instead, it happens on the strip of Boystown, our gayborhood. In the days leading up to pride many of the local businesses sell all kinds of pride related merch, and there's a mini street festival with vendors and music at the end of the street. During pride itself, the parade passes through all of the bars first, then through all of the retail areas. Local clubs hand out jello shots etc. There are a zillion after parties and events at the local bars.

definitely no room for tents or games during the parade - it gets hugely and densely packed, to a really unhappy extent. Lots of police around the edges too. It is closer than shoulder to shoulder. always a protest group somewhere down the road.

The parade itself was definitely more "sexy" than NYC's. While the political and support groups are there, the biggest events in the parade are floats manned by the different local bars - all manned by near-nude dancing go-go boys galore. :p Of course, we have lots of Queens too. :) Dikes on Bikes & the roller derbies often make an appearance as well. Sometimes local adult shops and things like that will get a float too. I've been told that it is WAY more of a party atmosphere than other Prides. While you're not supposed to drink on the street here, it's not really policed at pride, and people are kinda wild.

Sprite
05-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

I don't know too much about the local scene in my state, but we do get Pride and other festivals and walks, mostly in Miami or Orlando.

Max Aero
05-06-2014, 03:16 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

And how about former drag queen "Miss Lola Sinclair" running on a GOP ballot in the South?

Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p

I'll reiterate what anon_me said: Toronto Pride is huge, tons of vendors, events all over the city all week, and any time I've gone it's been really hot so there's water guns everywhere. I don't have much to compare it to but I'll also say it's really well organized (even if it shuts down a big chunk of downtown) and family-friendly, and draws a lot of tourists. A lot of variety in floats/groups in the march too, not just businesses or clubs but ethinic groups, community centres, support groups, big celebrity turnout etc. WorldPride is gonna be nuts.

If "other: Chat" isn't applicable, I'd have to go with Gwen.

Lt Trouble
05-06-2014, 04:28 PM
There's also the physical danger and family-related consequences that comes with coming out, what with the many cases of people getting beaten, raped or killed in hate crimes, or kids and teens getting tossed out into the streets or verbally/physically abused by their parents.

Oh, that's very true. I interpreted the question as being about why celebrities don't come out, though, who I think are not so likely to get physically attacked.

Scholar87
05-06-2014, 04:59 PM
Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone. We hold the event in our largest Downtown park. Drag Queens, bands, and Go-Go Boys entertain the crowd. Games and vending tents are available. It's a party atmosphere without the marching!

And how about former drag queen "Miss Lola Sinclair" running on a GOP ballot in the South?

Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p

As far as I know there doesn't seem to be any Pride Parades in any of cities in my area, not sure why. I have heard that the LGBTQ group at a local university does hold rallies every so often.

End of Time
05-06-2014, 10:49 PM
Oh, that's very true. I interpreted the question as being about why celebrities don't come out, though, who I think are not so likely to get physically attacked.

For them it has everything to do with marketability and branding. An openly gay actor won't have the same pull on an audience as a closeted actor. How many openly gay actors are there out there? How many of them are leading roles? How many of them saw their career lose steam after coming out?

dupersuper
05-06-2014, 11:10 PM
Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p

MJ, though I thought Stone was great as Gwen.

Tangent Man
05-06-2014, 11:41 PM
MJ, though I thought Stone was great as Gwen.

Strangely, she would have made an even more fantastic MJ!

Sorry, but Shailene Woodley is too plain for Mary Jane!

Arvandor
05-07-2014, 09:01 AM
How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

bert
05-07-2014, 09:13 AM
How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

nope. . been very open about myself since I was very young.

I don't always correct someone when they notice my ring and ask about my "wife". . but I don't pretend to be anything other than who I am.

Arvandor
05-07-2014, 09:37 AM
What I mean is, I sometimes call myself an asexual, but when I'm honest with myself the truth is that I'm just afraid of women. Always have been.

Sometimes I try to blame it on an abusive mother, but even that is a lie. She wasn't that violent.


I just wonder how common that is. People claiming a sexuality label to cover up deep seated issues.

darima80
05-07-2014, 09:38 AM
How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

I did for years during middle school and high school. But it didn't make me feel better, it made me numb. If I had known then what I know now, I would've accepted myself as the people I was afraid of disappointing (family and close friends, those who matter) have accepted me when I came out as an adult.

thespianphryne
05-07-2014, 09:42 AM
What I mean is, I sometimes call myself an asexual, but when I'm honest with myself the truth is that I'm just afraid of women. Always have been.

Sometimes I try to blame it on an abusive mother, but even that is a lie. She wasn't that violent.


I just wonder how common that is. People claiming a sexuality label to cover up deep seated issues.

I couldn't speak to how common it is. But it does happen.

Also, an abusive or neglectful parent may not have been "that violent" compared to people who persistently physically abused, or molested or criminally neglected their children. But it doesn't negate the harm or violence it propagates in the child's psyche.

thespianphryne
05-07-2014, 09:43 AM
What I mean is, I sometimes call myself an asexual, but when I'm honest with myself the truth is that I'm just afraid of women. Always have been.

Sometimes I try to blame it on an abusive mother, but even that is a lie. She wasn't that violent.


I just wonder how common that is. People claiming a sexuality label to cover up deep seated issues.

By the way, thanks for reminding me that the thread title needed elaboration.

t hedge coke
05-07-2014, 10:07 AM
My totally judgmental suspicion is that a lot of the more basic sexual identities claimed are because they're generally-true or true enough. I know folks who avoid claiming bisexual, based not on attraction, but which gender they're with just then. I know people who just keep it private and let people think/suppose whatever. Some actively hide for social reasons, including physical safety.

But, it depends on who you are and where in the world, too.

I'm still annoyed at Henry Rollins saying if he'd been gay, he would have come out loud at twelve, because while he's a big tough guy, at twelve he was in boarding school sleeping & showering with large groups of boys in a time/place where you'd get electroschock for being out. To me, that's unfair to those out or otherwise who were at real risk in that era.

Max Aero
05-07-2014, 10:08 AM
What I mean is, I sometimes call myself an asexual, but when I'm honest with myself the truth is that I'm just afraid of women. Always have been.

Sometimes I try to blame it on an abusive mother, but even that is a lie. She wasn't that violent.


I just wonder how common that is. People claiming a sexuality label to cover up deep seated issues.

I know some folks identifying asexual to avoid confronting gender dysphoria. I feel awful for them but there are so many different axes of physical/emotional safety in play, it's tough.

Arvandor
05-07-2014, 10:22 AM
By the way, thanks for reminding me that the thread title needed elaboration.

God. I was really hoping you wouldn't.

ExcelsiorPrime
05-07-2014, 01:11 PM
okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

Lt Trouble
05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

I tried to pray myself straight in my early teens, and lied to myself a lot. It did not make me feel better.

Greg
05-07-2014, 01:20 PM
okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

Intersex and Asexual

thespianphryne
05-07-2014, 01:21 PM
God. I was really hoping you wouldn't.
Sorry, dude. But it really doesn't hurt to share the sandbox, does it? At least it doesn't sound like a sandwich order anymore.


okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

I added the I for intersex, and A for Asexual.

Greg
05-07-2014, 01:21 PM
How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.

I haven't felt that way in years. Once I got over all that, I became happier.

darima80
05-07-2014, 01:22 PM
okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

EDIT: Already answered. Although I've seen LGBTA with the A meaning Ally.

ExcelsiorPrime
05-07-2014, 01:22 PM
Thanks. takes notes. I like to stay current.

5,000 G

Winslow
05-07-2014, 01:24 PM
okay someone added I and A to the acronym. Somebody help me out here..what does those letters stand for?

I had to google it:

Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, questioning, intersex, and asexual

Lt Trouble
05-07-2014, 01:30 PM
My totally judgmental suspicion is that a lot of the more basic sexual identities claimed are because they're generally-true or true enough. I know folks who avoid claiming bisexual, based not on attraction, but which gender they're with just then.

I think that's true enough. I think plenty of bi people kind of.... "round down" to straight or "round up" to gay. When I was a teenager, I figured being mostly attracted to women meant I was really a lesbian, which I think was partly due to the common idea that bi people are equally attracted to men and women and partly because of the differing stereotypes of bi women and lesbians. But my current partner is a man, and usually it's easier to just.... not say anything to people that I've met since I started dating him and only know casually.

Greg
05-07-2014, 01:32 PM
:sighs: the struggles of the bi gene.

Sprite
05-07-2014, 01:45 PM
I think that's true enough. I think plenty of bi people kind of.... "round down" to straight or "round up" to gay. When I was a teenager, I figured being mostly attracted to women meant I was really a lesbian, which I think was partly due to the common idea that bi people are equally attracted to men and women and partly because of the differing stereotypes of bi women and lesbians. But my current partner is a man, and usually it's easier to just.... not say anything to people that I've met since I started dating him and only know casually.

It is really difficult to try and explain bisexuality to certain others. Most of my peers assumed that I was gay because I was quiet and was too afraid to talk much, and it was difficult enough trying to figure myself out without the "one or the other" mentality. In some months, I'd be attracted to men, and others to women, and it all became very confusing. It wasn't until I was more of an adult and had some better resources available that I that a better and more comfortable understanding of my sexuality. However, knowing about the stereotyping and exclusion that tends to happen in a lot of LGBT circles made me very nervous towards exploring any further, but I'm trying to get better with that.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 01:54 PM
Sorry, dude. But it really doesn't hurt to share the sandbox, does it? At least it doesn't sound like a sandwich order anymore.


I don't know if I agree with you, thespian. It might not sound like a sandwich order, but you definitely made an Alphabet Soup! There's no way for this to sound gracious--and I'm not coming from a malicious place--but I don't know if the Queer community is necessarily a "Catch All" hangout for everyone with a variation from "traditional" heterosexuality. If that were the case, we'd probably encompass Adult Babies or the Furries, too.

Arvandor specified an exclusive attraction to women. I'm sorry, but I feel like there are plenty of discussion venues out there for straight people without them appropriating queer space.



I added the I for intersex, and A for Asexual.

A well-meaning, but possibly presumptuous, action. I question whether Asexual and Intersex people necessarily WANT to be lumped in with LGBT folks.

Greg
05-07-2014, 02:08 PM
It is really difficult to try and explain bisexuality to certain others. Most of my peers assumed that I was gay because I was quiet and was too afraid to talk much, and it was difficult enough trying to figure myself out without the "one or the other" mentality. In some months, I'd be attracted to men, and others to women, and it all became very confusing. It wasn't until I was more of an adult and had some better resources available that I that a better and more comfortable understanding of my sexuality. However, knowing about the stereotyping and exclusion that tends to happen in a lot of LGBT circles made me very nervous towards exploring any further, but I'm trying to get better with that.

Just be yourself and don't worry about stereotypes concerning being bisexual. Let haters hate. Don't let them stop you in learning and exploring yourself, just as long as you doing it in healthy fashion.

Max Aero
05-07-2014, 02:33 PM
A well-meaning, but possibly presumptuous, action. I question whether Asexual and Intersex people necessarily WANT to be lumped in with LGBT folks.

When aces choose to or not include themselves in LGBT+ it's on a personal level.
When other people include us in LGBT, it shows us people in the LGBT community are moving past Dan Savage-style vitriol and/or confusion to support ace visibility and ally-ship. It's cool.

People/ace communities outright against the inclusion are almost always forgetting the wide spectrum of asexual experiences and how they intersect with other non-heteronormative orientations, how heterosexism affects us as well. Or in some gross asexual communities - it's because they're transphobic & sexphobic/slut-shaming.


If that were the case, we'd probably encompass Adult Babies or the Furries, too.

I don't think LGBT is ever going to encompass fetishes. There are a few other terms that do that (GSM).

galaxygnome
05-07-2014, 02:38 PM
I haven't felt that way in years. Once I got over all that, I became happier.

Yeah, I feel like I was doing what Arvandor mentions for the longest time... but I still don't feel healed from it. :/ better, but not over it, yanno?

--

IMO when you say "LGBTQIA" you aren't necessarily saying all of those struggles are linked together, as you are saying that that space is a safe one for everyone who identifies under that umbrella - inclusive of folks identifying as ace or intersex. committing yourself to that, I mean.

I haven't ever met anyone who identifies as intersex, but I have met a number of ace folks who feel routinely rejected from LGBT communities and would like not to be, especially as they sometimes also identify as panromantic, homoomantic, or even aromantic. i.e. even farther from heterosexual than some L/G/B/Q folks are. I know from being queer (some might interpret as bi?) that that feeling blows and I don't really want to wish it on anyone else. Our struggles are separate and not the same, but it is related to consensually appropriate non-normative sexual behavior/gender identity, and they should feel safe in LGBT spaces too, yeah?

--

there's so much grossness around bi and really most other labels. that's why i resigned myself to just "queer" and have felt so much nicer since. If someone wants to question me on what that means, we'll talk about it, but for most people's purposes it doesn't need to mean more than "not straight" - so much easier.

Greg
05-07-2014, 02:47 PM
I've associated with queer myself, but use bisexual more often than not. I'll mostly use queer to categorize a number of people of "other" sexuality other than straight. If I'm asking another dude his orientation, I'll say "Are you straight or queer?" Because maybe he's bi and sees himself as bi or maybe he's gay. But I've met dudes who find queer to be too weird for them but still don't really say if they're bi or gay despite being one of the two.

thespianphryne
05-07-2014, 02:54 PM
Fair enough, Tangent Man. But I disagree with your boundary on sexual otherness. Also Furry, Infantilism, etc are not sexual orientations: they are sexual paraphilias.

While you can make a pretty decent case for intersexed persons not falling into the queer category by virtue of choosing which gender to inhabit, you can make the same case for transgendered persons. Not all transgendered persons are attracted to the same gender. When you accord transgendered persons the dignity of their psychic gender, there are plenty of straight transgendered persons. And yet, there's the T in our little banner.

I can't speak for Arvandor, but in my understanding, he was *questioning* his absence of apparent sexual attraction to other people. And in my estimation sounded like he didn't know the direction his sexuality takes him.

You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality. I myself tend to the opinion that there is no such thing as Asexuality, only repression or sublimation. But on the other hand, I'm only well-read, not an expert. Also it's not my reality or experience. So until I've gathered enough interaction with people who have that experience and until I know more, it doesn't hurt me in any fashion to consider that there is a thing called Asexuality.

In my estimation, Queerness encompasses all those concepts and experiences that challenge the binary social conventions of sex and gender roles. And the people, who belong the two categories I've presumed to invite to this discussion, challenge just those very conventions. There aren't so many of us; with so many rights and access to equity, equality and justice as the the rest of the world, so I'm with okay my own presumption of collective struggle in that regard.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 04:07 PM
Fair enough, Tangent Man. But I disagree with your boundary on sexual otherness. Also Furry, Infantilism, etc are not sexual orientations: they are sexual paraphilias.


Yet, as you argued a case that Asexuality is repression, couldn't Furries or Infants claim that they're presenting issues of identity, and not merely sexual kink?



While you can make a pretty decent case for intersexed persons not falling into the queer category by virtue of choosing which gender to inhabit, you can make the same case for transgendered persons. Not all transgendered persons are attracted to the same gender. When you accord transgendered persons the dignity of their psychic gender, there are plenty of straight transgendered persons. And yet, there's the T in our little banner.


However, there's not exactly an absolute consensus that the T even belongs there. As you pointed out, Trans people can identify as straight. Some chafe at being associated with Bi or Gay. Many gay and bi people tire of sexual orientation being conflated with gender identity.

Historically, though, the two have been conflated. Phobes willfully dismiss any distinction. The hate expressed against Trans folks erupts from the same, churning, violent pit that targets Gay/Bi folks. Trans people have also stood alongside the LGBs in the fight for equality...even while their own needs were shunted aside in that struggle. For these reasons, and more, I welcome the inclusion of the "T"!



I can't speak for Arvandor, but in my understanding, he was *questioning* his absence of apparent sexual attraction to other people. And in my estimation sounded like he didn't know the direction his sexuality takes him.


Perhaps it's a matter of perception. I saw him say unequivocally that he's attracted to women. He's uncertain about where his dealings with women should go, because of past issues with women. Ergo, a thought that naturally occurred to me was "is this the right thread for you?" Again, there's an overwhelming abundance of threads where men can discuss their exclusive attractions toward women.

Is it absolutely necessary that such a conversation happen in the Queer thread?



You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality. I myself tend to the opinion that there is no such thing as Asexuality, only repression or sublimation. But on the other hand, I'm only well-read, not an expert. Also it's not my reality or experience. So until I've gathered enough interaction with people who have that experience and until I know more, it doesn't hurt me in any fashion to consider that there is a thing called Asexuality.


I question whether Asexuality is actually an orientation, rather than a degree of sexual interest or expression. I think the struggles of Aces(?) are largely internal, and definitely do NOT approach anything resembling external oppression experienced by lesbian, gay, bi, and Trans people. Nobody will be fired, maimed, or murdered because they're Asexual!



In my estimation, Queerness encompasses all those concepts and experiences that challenge the binary social conventions of sex and gender roles. And the people, who belong the two categories I've presumed to invite to this discussion, challenge just those very conventions. There aren't so many of us; with so many rights and access to equity, equality and justice as the the rest of the world, so I'm with okay my own presumption of collective struggle in that regard.

Please understand, though, that while you may have the privilege of labeling threads according to your preferences, you don't speak for everyone here. The Queer community isn't a monolithic one. It might even be insulting to claim that asexual people experience the same degree of "struggle for justice" as people who've actually endured it.

Max Aero
05-07-2014, 06:09 PM
Well this turned into a monument of how necessary "A" inclusion or in the very least eduction is in LGBT pretty quickly, and how important asexual visibility is.


Yet, as you argued a case that Asexuality is repression, couldn't Furries or Infants claim that they're presenting issues of identity, and not merely sexual kink?
Asexuality is far more complex than that, also that's a glaring false equivalency.


Many gay and bi people tire of sexual orientation being conflated with gender identity.
The inclusion of "T" doesn't mean it conflates with other orientations. The history of the terms LGB, and LGBT, was about building and accurately representing a community of people who share or support each other dealing with sexuality and gender identity issues.


I question whether Asexuality is actually an orientation, rather than a degree of sexual interest or expression. I think the struggles of Aces(?) are largely internal, and definitely do NOT approach anything resembling external oppression experienced by lesbian, gay, bi, and Trans people. Nobody will be fired, maimed, or murdered because they're Asexual!
This is why asexual visibility is so important. Someone who cannot accept the concept of asexuality apart from their own experiences making tenuous claims about our struggles, and using "external" struggle to determine legitimacy. Internal struggle is still struggle, especially when it's coupled with or influences mental illness... which can be physical. And I'd call 'corrective' rape external struggle. Or negativity from religious communities ("you owe your partner sex").
Further, LGBT rights and visibility isn't only or all about sex, whether A or T is included or not. I was under the impression love, relationships, social dynamics, etc. were also applied.


The Queer community isn't a monolithic one
That's right. There is plenty of transphobia, sexism, racism in the queer community and I don't believe most people tolerate it. I don't, as well as asexual ignorance/dismissal/hate.


You know there is still considerable debate amongst 'analysts and various other kinds of shrinks over the reality of asexuality.
These analysts and especially 'shrinks' treat asexual people as merely having sexual dysfunction or other mental illness that the patient does not actually have to be treated for. This is an institution that treats asexual people adverse to how they actually identify, think or behave.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 07:51 PM
Well this turned into a monument of how necessary "A" inclusion or in the very least eduction is in LGBT pretty quickly, and how important asexual visibility is.


Maybe that purpose would be better served in its own thread?



The inclusion of "T" doesn't mean it conflates with other orientations. The history of the terms LGB, and LGBT, was about building and accurately representing a community of people who share or support each other dealing with sexuality and gender identity issues.


Yes, there's shared history, an important piece missing when an alleged "Asexual" community tries to piggyback onto a historic movement.



This is why asexual visibility is so important. Someone who cannot accept the concept of asexuality apart from their own experiences making tenuous claims about our struggles, and using "external" struggle to determine legitimacy. Internal struggle is still struggle, especially when it's coupled with or influences mental illness... which can be physical. And I'd call 'corrective' rape external struggle. Or negativity from religious communities ("you owe your partner sex").
Further, LGBT rights and visibility isn't only or all about sex, whether A or T is included or not. I was under the impression love, relationships, social dynamics, etc. were also applied.


No, it's not all about sex. However, speaking of sex, celibacy has been upheld as a higher moral, spiritual standard by many different religions around the world. Asexuality might be misunderstood, even ridiculed, but I'd argue with nowhere near the same vehemence as targets gay, bi, or Trans people. I'm hearing people try to frame Asexual experience in similar terms as LGBT, so, yes, I'll challenge that line of argument by pointing out exactly why that might constitute a shaky comparison.

You won't be shunned by your family because you want a platonic romance with a woman (hypothetical "you").
You won't lose your job because some right-wing asshole thinks you're "sinful", "perverse", or even just "icky".
Churches don't go out of their way to proselytize, pulpit-bash, or influence legislation against you. In fact, they'd likely high-five you!
Unless you're perceived as gay or lesbian, bashers aren't targeting you in the streets, either.
Politicians aren't trying to legislate 2nd class citizenship for you.

Internal struggle pits you against yourself for survival. If you want to politicize asexuality and stake a claim in the LGBT community, then, yes, expect people to point out the tenuousness of comparing those experiences. Personal angst is not the same as centuries of multidimensional oppression.



That's right. There is plenty of transphobia, sexism, racism in the queer community and I don't believe most people tolerate it. I don't, as well as asexual ignorance/dismissal/hate.


I thinking comparing the very real struggles of people targeted in your first sentence with the latter trivializes their experience.



These analysts and especially 'shrinks' treat asexual people as merely having sexual dysfunction or other mental illness that the patient does not actually have to be treated for. This is an institution that treats asexual people adverse to how they actually identify, think or behave.

The Trans community fought that battle for decades. I think we're only seeing a real breakthrough in the past decade in the Psychiatric industry's dealing with Transgender concerns.

Max Aero
05-07-2014, 08:52 PM
Maybe that purpose would be better served in its own thread?
Why can't it happen in a thread with "A" included in the acronym - where people are objectively ignorant about the subject. If you want to make a LGBT thread to specifically exclude asexual people, go ahead.
I mean I will eventually leave because I'm really near the point I wouldn't want to be here as bi, or even an ally. But it was worth pointing out. Also that I'm positive you know that thread would be empty, but at least it wouldn't be near you.


Yes, there's shared history, an important piece missing when an alleged "Asexual" community tries to piggyback onto a historic movement.
This is getting really gross. Just because you're not part of it, don't want to be, can't see it or whatever other reason, doesn't mean it's tenuous or doesn't exist.
LGBT+ isn't a term simply for a historic movement. It's for the community, an evolving one, of people who share or support each other dealing with sexuality and gender identity issues. Of which asexual people have been a part of, invisibly in varying degrees, before AVEN came around.


celibacy has been upheld as a higher moral, spiritual standard by many different religions around the world.
celibacy =/= asexuality


Asexuality might be misunderstood, even ridiculed, but I'd argue with nowhere near the same vehemence as targets gay, bi, or Trans people.
Might be? Your posts are glaring examples of it being so. And that's not the measurement of legitimacy to be included in the acronym, it wasn't for Trans or Pan people.


I'm hearing people try to frame Asexual experience in similar terms as LGBT, so, yes, I'll challenge that line of argument by pointing out exactly why that might constitute a shaky comparison.
I don't know what you've heard. If you're referring to a few examples I gave (corrective rape, religious & psychiatric discrimination) it wasn't to make a comparison. It was to present struggles that are real and exist for asexual people whether you believe it or not.
Every one of your examples are simply guesses. You don't know much about asexuality itself, how can you expect to put faith in "they'd likely high-five you" (they wouldn't and do not). You have no idea what you're talking about.


Personal angst is not the same as centuries of multidimensional oppression.
I dunno if personal angst is meant to trivialize just asexuality here, or mental illness in general.


I thinking comparing the very real struggles of people targeted in your first sentence with the latter trivializes their experience.
I wasn't comparing their struggles (I'll remind you again asexual people face "very real struggles") I was talking about negative attitudes that exist in LGBT towards these groups. The point being made isn't "which ones are worse" but that they do exist. Some good examples in this thread.


The Trans community fought that battle for decades. I think we're only seeing a real breakthrough in the past decade in the Psychiatric industry's dealing with Transgender concerns.
Thanks I know that already. You're only telling me this because you're trying to erase what asexual people experience in psychiatry with some one-upping.

whitewolf
05-07-2014, 10:12 PM
Whitewolf checking in. I didn't even know this thread existed on the old forums. For those who are curious I'm mostly gay, but I do sometimes like women so bi technically I guess. So a few pages back we briefly mentioned gay characters in Marvel movies and I have to say it better happen soon because I need my Young Avengers movie or a TV show, but give me one!

t hedge coke
05-08-2014, 02:10 AM
I haven't ever met anyone who identifies as intersex, but I have met a number of ace folks who feel routinely rejected from LGBT communities and would like not to be, especially as they sometimes also identify as panromantic, homoomantic, or even aromantic. i.e. even farther from heterosexual than some L/G/B/Q folks are. I know from being queer (some might interpret as bi?) that that feeling blows and I don't really want to wish it on anyone else. Our struggles are separate and not the same, but it is related to consensually appropriate non-normative sexual behavior/gender identity, and they should feel safe in LGBT spaces too, yeah?

Intersex isn't so much an identity as it boils down to physical and hormonal issues without any psychological element. It's closer to being born with a bad heart or unusual number of fingers. That said, it's nice to see the I in there.

Tangent Man
05-08-2014, 06:16 AM
Sorry, Max, but whether Asexuality IS even a sexual orientation is and remains a controversial topic. Experts disagree on the question. Presenting it as resolved and absolute fact does as much a disservice, IMO, as the so-called "ignorance" you've complained about.

Max Aero
05-08-2014, 08:35 AM
Sorry, Max, but whether Asexuality IS even a sexual orientation is and remains a controversial topic. Experts disagree on the question. Presenting it as resolved and absolute fact does as much a disservice, IMO, as the so-called "ignorance" you've complained about.

Experts on Asexuality, you know that many? The disagreement is from people who are objectively ignorant - who put Asexuality in scare quotes.

Flamebird
05-08-2014, 08:43 AM
Sorry, Max, but whether Asexuality IS even a sexual orientation is and remains a controversial topic. Experts disagree on the question. Presenting it as resolved and absolute fact does as much a disservice, IMO, as the so-called "ignorance" you've complained about.

It wasn't that long ago that gays were just "sick people" that should be kept away from children til they were "cured".
Bi-Sexuals were just indiscriminate bed-hoppers.
And Lesbians just needed a "good man" to "fix" them.
Screw that.
I do admit I'm tired if the alphabet soup of LGBTIA, I always wanna add "M-O-U-S-E". :p

Kieran_Frost
05-08-2014, 10:43 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.
I've never been to Pride... and only ever been to one gay bar (fell asleep in it; was so tired)


Speaking of Pride, what are your festivities like in your cities? Here in Savannah, we eschewed the parade in favor of a festival zone.
No idea, I'm afraid. I'm sure Bristol has one (we have lots of gay bars and clubs)


Also, a quick Spider-Man poll: which girlfriend do you prefer, Gwen or Mary-Jane? No, you can't say "Felicia", since we all know she's fabulous! :p
Gwen Stacey all the way, MJ is rubbish!


For them it has everything to do with marketability and branding. An openly gay actor won't have the same pull on an audience as a closeted actor. How many openly gay actors are there out there? How many of them are leading roles? How many of them saw their career lose steam after coming out?
Very, very few. In terms of "major" openly gay actors, we have Ian McKellan, Zachary Quintos, Jodie Foster, Ellen Page and Neil Patrick Harris... after that you're into Derek Jacobi, Jonathan Groff, Russell Tovey, Jesse Tyler Ferguson (but, outside of film/tv buffs, most won't know who they are).

Only two openly LGBT actors have ever won Oscars while being out (Angelina Jolie and Sir John Gielgud)


How many people lie to themselves and everyone else about their sexuality, in order to make themselves feel better?

I can't be the only one.
I've been out since I was 14 in school; though I did start off as "bi" (not that made any difference, to my peers bi = gay in terms of man/man feelings).

Charmed
05-08-2014, 10:54 AM
Has anyone here been to pride? I have never been to one of those. I got to a lot of smaller LQBT events, but never pride.

I've never been to one. Though, living near Miami, it's not like I couldn't go.
I'm hoping to eventually go to one. Just to get a feel for the vibe.

pro
05-08-2014, 01:01 PM
It is really difficult to try and explain bisexuality to certain others.

Last 3 women I've liked were bi. Before that I had a big crush on a straight guy that went nowhere for obvious reasons.
It's nice to be able to talk to them about attractions without worrying about perception because they know exactly what it's like.
I think I prefer bi-people as potential partners over others because there is no need for explanations or insecurities.
They like me, I like them, we both know the attraction has little to do with gender. It's a non-issue.