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Ite
06-21-2014, 04:53 PM
Captain America, Daredevil, Black Panther, Deathstroke, Moon Knight, Batman and Nightwing vs Spider-Man.

Can they take the web head down?

master of read
06-21-2014, 05:02 PM
not likely.

MorphyVSFischer
06-21-2014, 05:28 PM
They only chance they have is Daredevil and the others distracting Spidey long enough for Deathstroke , Nightwing and Batman to throw AOE's at him but that's a long shot.

master of read
06-21-2014, 05:31 PM
They only chance they have is Daredevil and the others distracting Spidey long enough for Deathstroke , Nightwing and Batman to throw AOE's at him but that's a long shot.

matt's the only one close to peter's speed and his radar would give him a edge but that's about it.

Primetime Harder
06-21-2014, 05:36 PM
They only chance they have is Daredevil and the others distracting Spidey long enough for Deathstroke , Nightwing and Batman to throw AOE's at him but that's a long shot.

Can Spidey really take out all 7 of them before Batman, Nightwing, and Deathstroke let fly with grenades and gas bombs?

master of read
06-21-2014, 05:42 PM
Can Spidey really take out all 7 of them before Batman, Nightwing, and Deathstroke let fly with grenades and gas bombs?

far too slow for them to do anything before peter webs them up.

and grenades and gas bombs? nothing he hasn't fought and beaten before.

Omega
06-21-2014, 06:52 PM
matt's the only one close to peter's speed and his radar would give him a edge but that's about it.

Doesn't Petey's combat precog basically cancel out Matt's senses?

master of read
06-21-2014, 06:58 PM
Doesn't Petey's combat precog basically cancel out Matt's senses?

pretty much. going full bore, matt cant keep up with peter. like i said, unlike the other guys, his radar gives him a edge but not much of one.

Jonathan
06-21-2014, 07:46 PM
Spiderman is hilariously faster than any of them, has precog, and is strong enough to effortlessly one shot any of them.

heretic
06-21-2014, 08:15 PM
Not really. One-sided prep means they _may_ be able to bracket him with enough AOE to do him harm, but otherwise he is far too fast for any of them to hit and far too strong for any of them to take a hit.

big_adventure
06-22-2014, 01:43 PM
If they had one-sided prep, they'd flat out win (by just blowing the hell out of the arena at the bell), but they don't have that by the OP, so... Pete takes this. Only Matty even sees him move, but Matt's not fast enough to deal with a Rumbles-Lusted Parker.

Hiromi
06-22-2014, 02:21 PM
Throwing projectiles at Spidey is a great way to get them thrown right back at you or your teammates, he has a LOT of feats of him webbing grenades out of mid air and returning them to sender, Hell he has plenty of feats of webbing them to the thrower's hand before they can get them off. One of the perks of fighting the Goblin boys for a couple of decades.

Carabas
06-22-2014, 02:29 PM
Doesn't Petey's combat precog basically cancel out Matt's senses?It doesn't even always cancel out stuff like falling rocks or regular guys with regular fists.

Powerboy
06-22-2014, 03:36 PM
It doesn't even always cancel out stuff like falling rocks or regular guys with regular fists.

True but that's just low showings. We'd be working from the idea that everybody is working from their high-end feats.

Hiromi
06-22-2014, 03:57 PM
Man you'd think a board that's been doing this stuff for over a decade would have a rule or something to take care of instances where a character's power isn't used properly for the sake of a story.

Seto Kaiba
06-22-2014, 07:08 PM
The ONLY way they would stand a chance is if they could overload his spider sense. Create so much danger that he can't focus properly. Only problem is that none of them could generate that much danger.

Hiromi
06-22-2014, 07:14 PM
Honestly Spidey can flat out remove most if not all of them from the fight at the bell just by opening up with the web slingers full out.

And really people need to stop acting like he's suddenly easy to hit even if you DO get past the spider sense

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/61327/1184041-feat20speedagilityie0_1_.jpg

Seto Kaiba
06-22-2014, 07:25 PM
Honestly Spidey can flat out remove most if not all of them from the fight at the bell just by opening up with the web slingers full out.

And really people need to stop acting like he's suddenly easy to hit even if you DO get past the spider sense

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/61327/1184041-feat20speedagilityie0_1_.jpg

Well they did spend a few months training him so that he could be a threat without his spider sense. So getting by it isn't an automatic win of course. But there has been cases made for overloading it (either through being that dangerous or artificial means). But it's all moot in this fight.

Carabas
06-23-2014, 03:23 AM
True but that's just low showings. We'd be working from the idea that everybody is working from their high-end feats.
That's not just one or two low showings, that's an established series of events happening across decades that show the Spider-Sense to be far from absolutely reliable.

Hiromi
06-23-2014, 12:16 PM
So then I guess Flash's, or Superman's, or <insert long running character with established superspeed here> speed can be assumed to be far from absolutely reliable as well given the plethora of times they've been touched by things that are not in fact as fast as whatever it is they normally dodge without trouble.

Matt the Manly
06-23-2014, 01:14 PM
Im pretty sure spidey had no bullet time feats in his first 10 years or so.
Is that Daredevil thing his best speed feat / does he have a bunch of other bullet time feats to support this?

Hiromi
06-23-2014, 01:33 PM
Daredevil's been knocking bullets out of the air for pretty much ever. I can google image search "Daredevil bullet timing" and pull a half dozen separate feats on the first row. (here (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/20066/1099354-daredevil335p157zw.jpg),here (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3459200-2856644547-26582.jpg),here (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3459207-3214769850-27742.jpg),here (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3459206-0832010460-10993.jpg),and here (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/118094/3459208-9760605849-27741.jpg))

And even taking away 10 years of Spiderman's history still leaves another 50 where he does have them, I can start flooding this thread with them if I have to if we're this determined to retread every debate we've ever done.

big_adventure
06-23-2014, 01:39 PM
Im pretty sure spidey had no bullet time feats in his first 10 years or so.
Is that Daredevil thing his best speed feat / does he have a bunch of other bullet time feats to support this?

Matt has lots and lots of BT feats over the years, repeatedly doing things like being fired upon by multiple sources, swinging a billy club and batting two different bullets back into two different targets accurately enough to disarm, not kill. He did something similar just recently, to a crazy dude standing a couple of feet away, and using a couple of police batons, he swatted away all 6 shots from a revolver at point-blank range. There is the famous sniper feat. There are the innumerable feats of him dancing through automatic weapon fire. Then there are things like a sniper spotting him in a scope from a rooftop two blocks away, having his scope on Matt, suddenly Matt's not there in his FOV. Dude's like "wha--" and takes his eye away to see Matt kicking him in the head. Plus he does things like casually, calmly, jokingly yet still respectfully humiliate Captain America when Cap is attacking from ambush using specific anti-Daredevil gear from SHIELD. Matt trivially catches Cap's shield out of the air in the aforementioned ambush when Cap has specifically used anti-radar-sense chaff and some kind of sonic distorter to not be heard and to screw with hearing.

abmccray
06-24-2014, 06:30 AM
Maybbbeeeee Matt can distract Spider-man long enough for Batman to activate a noise-disorienting device (used against Man Bat before), which MIGHT slow Spider-man down enough to take him out with other stuff. That would take out Matt, too, but oh well.

Captain Morgan
06-24-2014, 10:06 AM
Im pretty sure spidey had no bullet time feats in his first 10 years or so.
Is that Daredevil thing his best speed feat / does he have a bunch of other bullet time feats to support this?

I think, if I am reading this correctly, Matt is asking about Spidey's speed feats, not Dare Devils. To answer that: Spider-Man doesn't swat or catch bullets out of the air air like some of the martial arts based characters. And because he is operating with precog, it's often times hard to tell if he is moving before a shot is fired or not. That said, he does have have some explicit bullet time feats. He also has a lot of really impressive dodging, full out blitzing tons of meta humans, moving so fast does anime style disappear moves, and more.

Some speed scans for you.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125392/3030026-tasm+637017.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111157/3746780-speed2.jpg

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/17/48/68/57/bullet10.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3199102-9774618900-215706.jpeg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111157/3746775-deadpool-vs-spider-man.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111112612/3201190-7834953309-13560.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125392/2880995-2238392_feat3ssspeed1wr8.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3199077-6733435134-197874.jpeg

Hiromi
06-24-2014, 12:44 PM
To answer that: Spider-Man doesn't swat or catch bullets out of the air air like some of the martial arts based characters.


Ehhhhh

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/5/52246/1445819-spidey_284.jpg

Captain Morgan
06-24-2014, 12:54 PM
Ehhhhh
Snip

While I'm aware of that example, I don't like citing it because he failed to catch one of the bullets and it was during a period where his powers were crapping out on him a bit. Also they were weird future tracer bullet things? Worth noting that he was basically running away from those things for an extended period of time.

Hiromi
06-24-2014, 01:15 PM
Well he did catch both of them, one just went through his hand. Which realistically is what should generally happen anyway since your hand isn't any more durable than any other part of you

big_adventure
06-24-2014, 03:12 PM
Well he did catch both of them, one just went through his hand. Which realistically is what should generally happen anyway since your hand isn't any more durable than any other part of you

Peter's hand sure as hell is more durable than any part of a regular human.

Matt the Manly
06-24-2014, 04:43 PM
so then Spiderman gets a free pass because he is.....Spiderman?
So Spiderman.....has as many bullet time feats as Captain America....and yet he is going to blitz paste bullet timers(speedwise)?

Hiromi
06-24-2014, 05:12 PM
A half dozen clear bullet timing feats where just posted among other speed feats that clearly paint it as being perfectly consistant with his normal portrayal
(have another (http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/7572/198715-676350_bullets_super.jpg_super.jpeg), Hell have two (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111112612/3199133-3080388746-27871.jpg))
and you consider that giving a pass. Okay, start posting the Cap feats that have him dodging gunfire from multiple opponents from multiple angles at the same time, the ones that have him dodging point blank sniper rifle bullets, the ones where he dodges full auto fire. The ones where he pulls the bullets out of thin air with either his hands or little bullet sized webbings. We'll wait.

Edit: And really this scan alone is enough to give Spidey 10/10 against this grouping

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/1986750-813126_webs2_super.jpg

Matt the Manly
06-24-2014, 05:47 PM
Im not arguing Spidey isnt going to thump the lot of them with his webbing , im arguing what makes you think him blitzing Matt is viable?
And neither of the two aim dodging feats you just posted(heck he actually notes in the second case that he is already gone by the time the shot is fired) helps your argument

Hiromi
06-24-2014, 05:56 PM
The first feat has him clearly moving his head while the bullets are both in flight, the second has him clearly visible as the trigger is being pulled and completely gone by the time the bullet is fired, a significant full body movement in a small fraction of a second.

As good as Matt is, he does not have an established history of human bouncy balling in the face of full auto fire against multiple assailants. Most of his stuff come again single firers typically with hand guns. The sniper rifle feat already posted for Spidey puts him at the very least at the very very top of the bullet timers as a Sniper Rifle has a significantly higher bullet velocity than handguns. The scan notes the paticular rifle at 4,000 ft/s, for comparison an M16(a comparitivly high velocity assault rifle) has a muzzle velocity of only 3110 - 3280ft/s

Matt the Manly
06-24-2014, 06:07 PM
Again the bullets are not even shown on panel in the first scan, let alone what Spidey is doing off it , when the shots are fired
Batman has better speed feats than the second scan, which is again aim dodging

Matt has dodged sniper rounds when he starts moving when they are a couple of feet from his face
the scan that was posted ? The Robins are always dodging snipers like that, where the line of fire is seen on panel! Thats not even a good aim dodging feat

Matt has plenty of similar aim dodging feats from multiple assailants which pretty much is true for any decent street leveller

Spidey has so far, 2 bullet timing feats, late in his career. How is that different from Cap?

Captain Morgan
06-24-2014, 08:51 PM
Again the bullets are not even shown on panel in the first scan, let alone what Spidey is doing off it , when the shots are fired
Batman has better speed feats than the second scan, which is again aim dodging

Matt has dodged sniper rounds when he starts moving when they are a couple of feet from his face
the scan that was posted ? The Robins are always dodging snipers like that, where the line of fire is seen on panel! Thats not even a good aim dodging feat

Matt has plenty of similar aim dodging feats from multiple assailants which pretty much is true for any decent street leveller

Spidey has so far, 2 bullet timing feats, late in his career. How is that different from Cap?

OK, I didn't know you were going to get all up in arms about this, but if you want more scans.

More bullet timing.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43640/1145069-vfx_amazingspider_man529_017.jpg

Close range, moving faster than a targeting computer can track against full auto fire.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/134553/3542838-screen+shot+2014-01-01+at+2.06.00+pm.png

Blitzing people so fast they can't even track him.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/3853/809748-speed2.jpg

Guns are non-threats to the guy.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/3853/809746-speed1.jpg

Spidey moves faster than the eye can see.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/3853/812008-speed4.jpg

Aaaaand again.

Blitzing the Hulk (to no avail) and mentioning that his reflexes are forty times faster than a normal persons.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3627495-4769072958-25377.jpg

Speed blitzes absorbing man.


http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/19449/473309-spider_man_s_speed_2_super.jpg

A surreal one here, but a shrunk Spider-Man alters the trajectory of a bullet he is riding in mid-air.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/19449/473310-spider_man_s_speed_3_super.jpg

Pretty explicit sniper dodge, after it is fired.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/19449/473311-spider_man_s_speed_4_super.jpg

Webs up a gun between the time the trigger is pulled and the bullet leaves the chamber.

http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/7572/198721-feat3speedequipmentrx1.jpg_super.jpeg

In the space between heart beats he pulls someone out of harms way and webs up a huge bit of debris.

It's also worth noting in the scan where Kraven's kid notes Peter dodged the rifle bullet, Peter also disappears from sight in front of them and reappears behind them and up a level without them having seen him move. There's also a scan I can't find where Venom hurls a van with a driver in it at Spider-Man who is on the wall. In the time it take the van to fly 10 feat, Spidey leaps through the wind shield, removes the driver from the seat, and rips out the (closed) back door of the van with the driver safely in tow.

Spidey is different than Cap for a lot of reasons. For one, Spider-Man did explicitly get stronger and faster as he got older. He's also a super-human, and has always been super-human, unlike Cap who had explicit periods of being powered up to those levels. Spidey doesn't have a huge number of explicit bullet feats, but the quality and caliber of his aim dodging is pretty much unparallelled. I don't think any other superhero has that level of "not even worried that I have bullets passing inches from my body all around me." He also has stuff like moving faster than the human eye can follow on a bunch of different occasions, and is explicitly called out as faster than Dare Devil, Wolverine, and Captain America type folks on more than one occasion.

Spider-Man gets his high end bullet time status based on having a decent number of explicit bullet timing feats, and a ton of other speed feats which back them up. And this is important for Rumbles-- these feats are consistent with his portrayal.

The Watcher
06-24-2014, 09:24 PM
Matt the Manly, quit ignoring or distorting Spdierman's feats to discount his speed. This is an official admonishment.

Omega
06-24-2014, 09:28 PM
Matt the Manly, quit ignoring or distorting Spdierman's feats to discount his speed. This is an official admonishment.

Who is your avatar Watcher? He looks kind of Eternity-ish?

The Drunkard Kid
06-24-2014, 11:06 PM
Didn't Daredevil at least once directly gripe that he couldn't keep pace with Spider-Man?

Here we go:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/2562118-2472293_1544554_daredevil_spiderman_04_super.jpg

OverLordArthas
06-24-2014, 11:58 PM
Some laser speed feat for Spidey.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/3405933-198728-feat31speednm8.jpg_super.jpeg
and
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/3405934-3199077-6733435134-197874.jpeg

Anarchist
06-25-2014, 12:16 AM
Hell, you could throw in Elektra, Shang Chi and Iron Fist and it still wouldn't make a difference.

The Drunkard Kid
06-25-2014, 12:20 AM
Iron Fist is about as fast or faster and has attacks strong enough to almost kill Luke Cage while holding back, and can also use that attack as an AoE. There's a good chance he could solo Parker.

Pendaran
06-25-2014, 02:11 AM
Some laser speed feat for Spidey.

That's not really all that impressive vis a vis comics and lasers, which tend to be "shit travelling visibly to the naked eye". It's like everyone dodging Electro's lightning.

Don't get me wrong, Peter is well into the bullet time shenanigans, that's just not the feats for supporting that thar.

OverLordArthas
06-25-2014, 02:23 AM
That's not really all that impressive vis a vis comics and lasers, which tend to be "shit travelling visibly to the naked eye". It's like everyone dodging Electro's lightning.

Don't get me wrong, Peter is well into the bullet time shenanigans, that's just not the feats for supporting that thar.
Noted Sensei.
How about this.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2640268-feat14fight1py7.jpg
Jumping into Frank's line of fire.

Primetime Harder
06-25-2014, 02:40 AM
Iron Fist is about as fast or faster and has attacks strong enough to almost kill Luke Cage while holding back, and can also use that attack as an AoE. There's a good chance he could solo Parker.

Didn't he bring down a helicarrier with one of those AoE blasts?

The Drunkard Kid
06-25-2014, 03:39 AM
That's not really all that impressive vis a vis comics and lasers, which tend to be "shit travelling visibly to the naked eye". It's like everyone dodging Electro's lightning.

Don't get me wrong, Peter is well into the bullet time shenanigans, that's just not the feats for supporting that thar.

Also, unless we're arguing that Spidey had lightspeed reflexes, that pretty much had to be aim-dodging.

The Drunkard Kid
06-25-2014, 03:40 AM
Didn't he bring down a helicarrier with one of those AoE blasts?

He severely damages one's runway, IIRC.

Carabas
06-25-2014, 04:28 AM
Noted Sensei.
How about this.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/80103/2640268-feat14fight1py7.jpg
Jumping into Frank's line of fire.
This one seems much more the Punisher unable to hit the broad side of a barn than Spider-Man being particularily fast or difficult to hit.

The Drunkard Kid
06-25-2014, 04:36 AM
This one seems much more the Punisher unable to hit the broad side of a barn than Spider-Man being particularily fast or difficult to hit.

In all fairness to Frank, he probably doesn't particularly want to kill a guy who he knows has a stronger moral code than himself, even if he weren't firing at a super-fast, super-flexible dude with precognition.

big_adventure
06-25-2014, 03:21 PM
Hell, you could throw in Elektra, Shang Chi and Iron Fist and it still wouldn't make a difference.

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same. One of these things is not like the others, now it's time to play our game, it's time to play our game.

Shang and Elektra are awesome, fast, amazing and excellent. And they are a ridiculous joke to Danny. Shang's probably as fast, and probably as skilled, but Danny doesn't have to let him get close before just blowing the shit out of him with AoE qi attacks. And Elektra is pretty significantly below Shang.

Cody
06-25-2014, 06:57 PM
A half dozen clear bullet timing feats where just posted among other speed feats that clearly paint it as being perfectly consistant with his normal portrayal
(have another (http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/7572/198715-676350_bullets_super.jpg_super.jpeg), Hell have two (http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111112612/3199133-3080388746-27871.jpg))
and you consider that giving a pass. Okay, start posting the Cap feats that have him dodging gunfire from multiple opponents from multiple angles at the same time, the ones that have him dodging point blank sniper rifle bullets, the ones where he dodges full auto fire. The ones where he pulls the bullets out of thin air with either his hands or little bullet sized webbings. We'll wait.

Edit: And really this scan alone is enough to give Spidey 10/10 against this grouping

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/1986750-813126_webs2_super.jpg

Please tell me someone laid out JJ after he said that?

Acecool
06-25-2014, 09:14 PM
Again the bullets are not even shown on panel in the first scan, let alone what Spidey is doing off it , when the shots are fired
Batman has better speed feats than the second scan, which is again aim dodging

Matt has dodged sniper rounds when he starts moving when they are a couple of feet from his face
the scan that was posted ? The Robins are always dodging snipers like that, where the line of fire is seen on panel! Thats not even a good aim dodging feat

Matt has plenty of similar aim dodging feats from multiple assailants which pretty much is true for any decent street leveller

Spidey has so far, 2 bullet timing feats, late in his career. How is that different from Cap?

I am surprised that anyone can argue against spider-man's speed.

Guy1
06-25-2014, 09:46 PM
I think, if I am reading this correctly, Matt is asking about Spidey's speed feats, not Dare Devils. To answer that: Spider-Man doesn't swat or catch bullets out of the air air like some of the martial arts based characters. And because he is operating with precog, it's often times hard to tell if he is moving before a shot is fired or not. That said, he does have have some explicit bullet time feats. He also has a lot of really impressive dodging, full out blitzing tons of meta humans, moving so fast does anime style disappear moves, and more.

Some speed scans for you.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125392/3030026-tasm+637017.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111157/3746780-speed2.jpg

http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/17/48/68/57/bullet10.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3199102-9774618900-215706.jpeg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111111157/3746775-deadpool-vs-spider-man.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111112612/3201190-7834953309-13560.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125392/2880995-2238392_feat3ssspeed1wr8.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112612/3199077-6733435134-197874.jpeg

Well, Spidey did catch two bullets...it just didn't end well for him.

Captain Morgan
06-25-2014, 09:52 PM
Well, Spidey did catch two bullets...it just didn't end well for him.

That was also in a story line where his powers were crapping out in various ways. And that had a few other asterisks on it as well.

Captain Morgan
06-26-2014, 12:27 AM
I would also like to reiterate that in terms of general portrayals, guys like Cap usually go even with guys like Wolverine and Deadpool when they actually fight each other. Dare Devil occasionally fights guys in that bracket and displays a degree of superiority. Spider-Man, on his best days, has humiliated every guy in that bracket. Trounced them. His super human speed is an established thing. Yes, PIS is a thing for him like any fast character. But we operate on high end showings here.

Carabas
06-26-2014, 03:30 AM
Well, Spidey did catch two bullets...it just didn't end well for him.They were really weird bullets that can go around corners and fly slow enough that you can run away from them for a few pages.

Matt the Manly
06-26-2014, 10:17 AM
Matt the Manly, quit ignoring or distorting Spdierman's feats to discount his speed. This is an official admonishment.

I was not ignoring or distorting any feats, particularly the two about which I specifically complained

Upto that point , only 2 of the 6 or 7 scans posted showed actual bullet timing.Since then, at least two more have been posted as well as an explanatory "his powers increased as he aged" comment. Fair enough I thought only his strength increased( for instance has his spider sense gotten any better in the decades since his introduction?)

The thing is, none of the feats posted make him faster than DD. Both have bullet time feats( daredevil has more, and better ones I may point out)

The one time he is doing something drastically beyond a bullet timer is when he blitzes DD

So I must ask, what is the issue no of that patticular issue? Even if Spiderman did get a whole lot faster later , that scan shows Spiderman with his "web wings" which were part of his early costume. So is it a younger spiderman blitzing DD? That directly contradicts the first fight between the two when DD left him tied to a pole.


DD has been bullet timing since his yellow costume days, or in canon since Man without Fear. Spiderman has not, and in most of his fights vs DD , has run even with him speedwise so why should one feat make him so far beyond Daredevil?

I get that this is Spiderman, and there is the whole thing in comics about how Spiderman is x times faster than everyone else, but surely on feats alone he is not better than a bullet timer. Yes he can obviously dodge a whole lot of gunfire, but so can every other peak human, and most of them don't have the advantage of precog

Some of his feats are obviously better than peak human ( dodging computer targeted automatic gunfire for instance) but in terms of bullet timing feats , Spiderman doesn't have nearly enough feats considering his number of appearances, he hasn't been doing this since his early years or consistently enough in the decades since. by character portrayal he is often shown to be faster than other peak humans, and there is apparently an in comic increase in his speed so ok fine he could be a bullet timer

What feats put him beyond bullet timer status?

Pendaran
06-26-2014, 10:58 AM
What feats put him beyond bullet timer status?

You seem to now be creating a new argument to have with.. I don't know who. Spiderman isn't beyond bullet time, he's simply a very high end example of that crowd, and thereby faster than several of the people in it.

Considering you also say this



Some of his feats are obviously better than peak human ( dodging computer targeted automatic gunfire for instance) but in terms of bullet timing feats , Spiderman doesn't have nearly enough feats considering his number of appearances, he hasn't been doing this since his early years or consistently enough in the decades since.

What are you trying to argue now? That Spiderman doesn't have bullet timing reflexes? That he isn't faster than others who do?

Guy1
06-26-2014, 11:05 AM
I was not ignoring or distorting any feats, particularly the two about which I specifically complained

Upto that point , only 2 of the 6 or 7 scans posted showed actual bullet timing.Since then, at least two more have been posted as well as an explanatory "his powers increased as he aged" comment. Fair enough I thought only his strength increased( for instance has his spider sense gotten any better in the decades since his introduction?)

The thing is, none of the feats posted make him faster than DD. Both have bullet time feats( daredevil has more, and better ones I may point out)

The one time he is doing something drastically beyond a bullet timer is when he blitzes DD

So I must ask, what is the issue no of that patticular issue? Even if Spiderman did get a whole lot faster later , that scan shows Spiderman with his "web wings" which were part of his early costume. So is it a younger spiderman blitzing DD? That directly contradicts the first fight between the two when DD left him tied to a pole.


DD has been bullet timing since his yellow costume days, or in canon since Man without Fear. Spiderman has not, and in most of his fights vs DD , has run even with him speedwise so why should one feat make him so far beyond Daredevil?

I get that this is Spiderman, and there is the whole thing in comics about how Spiderman is x times faster than everyone else, but surely on feats alone he is not better than a bullet timer. Yes he can obviously dodge a whole lot of gunfire, but so can every other peak human, and most of them don't have the advantage of precog

Some of his feats are obviously better than peak human ( dodging computer targeted automatic gunfire for instance) but in terms of bullet timing feats , Spiderman doesn't have nearly enough feats considering his number of appearances, he hasn't been doing this since his early years or consistently enough in the decades since. by character portrayal he is often shown to be faster than other peak humans, and there is apparently an in comic increase in his speed so ok fine he could be a bullet timer

What feats put him beyond bullet timer status?

MODERATOR

Matt the Manly, Scans have been provided showcasing Spider-Man's bullet timer status. It has been a part of his character for years now. Since you have been ignoring the multiple speed feats despite a mod telling you not to, you can cease posting in this thread.

Anarchist
06-26-2014, 11:17 AM
One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just isn't the same. One of these things is not like the others, now it's time to play our game, it's time to play our game.

Shang and Elektra are awesome, fast, amazing and excellent. And they are a ridiculous joke to Danny. Shang's probably as fast, and probably as skilled, but Danny doesn't have to let him get close before just blowing the shit out of him with AoE qi attacks. And Elektra is pretty significantly below Shang.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think consensus in the old Rumbles was that the gap between Danny and Spidey was still significantly big enough for Spidey to take him out before Danny starts his attack.
I mean, Spidey has ranged attacks too, his webbings should take care of that, and Danny's durability is still that of a guy, so Pete should 1-shot him.

Pendaran
06-26-2014, 11:27 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think consensus in the old Rumbles was that the gap between Danny and Spidey was still significantly big enough for Spidey to take him out before Danny starts his attack.

No, it wasn't remotely. The guy had done enough shit to demonstrate speed parity.


I mean, Spidey has ranged attacks too, his webbings should take care of that, and Danny's durability is still that of a guy, so Pete should 1-shot him.

Iron Fist has shown he can charge up an IF strike and rip out of the webbing via it. His ranged attacks can go AoE, he did a burst of that to take out a bunch of Hydra agents even when rusty and out of practice no less, and would shred the webbing as it comes in at him. Given that Peter is well less durable than things Danny has used the IF to affect or bust up, the thing of them fighting each other is they can 1 shot each other just fine.

Anarchist
06-26-2014, 11:46 AM
Ok, who would you give the edge then?
I'd still say Spidey has a slight advantage because he can go go into/attack from the air.

Pendaran
06-26-2014, 11:59 AM
Ok, who would you give the edge then?
I'd still say Spidey has a slight advantage because he can go go into/attack from the air.

There's nothing to go off of into the air particularly in an arena fight, and being able to do AoE shit is a pretty good counter to a dude swinging in at you.

Flip a coin, thereby. It's two guys who can one hit kill each other of reflex/speed parity, who have ways of doing shit over a broad area.

Pendaran
06-26-2014, 01:15 PM
edit- nm, not going to get into things ruled on.

The Drunkard Kid
06-26-2014, 02:06 PM
One reason that Peter doesn't bullet time as often as Matt does is that automatic, borderline uncontrollable, precognitive aim dodging is a specific power that he has, and his fighting style is explicitly based around it.

Carabas
06-26-2014, 02:28 PM
One reason that Peter doesn't bullet time as often as Matt does is that automatic, borderline uncontrollable, precognitive aim dodging is a specific power that he has, and his fighting style is explicitly based around it.
Being more of a Doylist, I would say it's because artists drawing radar sense are more likely to go to what looks like bullet time than artists drawing a guy with a few wavy lines around his head. Daredevil's specific gimmick just lends itself better visually to that sort of thing.

Captain Morgan
06-27-2014, 12:07 AM
Honestly, Iron Fist should shred Spider-Man just fine these days. His new series has bumped him up yet another notch on the power levels. He's now getting blasted for miles without serious harm and basically firing off kamehamehas.

Pendaran
06-27-2014, 12:09 AM
Hah.. uhm.. did they explain how the crap he was managing that?

Guy1
06-27-2014, 12:09 AM
Honestly, Iron Fist should shred Spider-Man just fine these days. His new series has bumped him up yet another notch on the power levels. He's now getting blasted for miles without serious harm and basically firing off kamehamehas.

Do you have scans? :D

Guy1
06-27-2014, 12:10 AM
Hah.. uhm.. did they explain how the shit he was managing that?

Anime Training? :p

Captain Morgan
06-27-2014, 01:44 PM
Hah.. uhm.. did they explain how the crap he was managing that?

Not really. I think it's just generally assumed that he's continued getting better with his ki since expanding his powers in his old series.

Guy, I'll try to put scans up on Monday.

Pendaran
06-27-2014, 01:52 PM
I like Iron Fist and all, but pending them scans, that seems a bit of a bridge too far.

Guy1
06-27-2014, 01:53 PM
Not really. I think it's just generally assumed that he's continued getting better with his ki since expanding his powers in his old series.

Guy, I'll try to put scans up on Monday.

It's all good, no rush.

big_adventure
06-27-2014, 02:52 PM
I like Iron Fist and all, but pending them scans, that seems a bit of a bridge too far.

Do NOT underestimate the awesomeness that is magical dragon infused kung-fu. Danny had dragonballs before Toriyama could hold a pencil.

Acecool
03-19-2015, 10:30 PM
It doesn't even always cancel out stuff like falling rocks or regular guys with regular fists.

Regular guys with fists are not dangers to spider-man. It would be like a year old toddler hitting you. I have a comic where he gets hit in the head by a regular guy full on in the back of the head and he makes fun of him by saying the dude just tried to give him a nuggy before back handing the guy.

Pendaran
03-19-2015, 10:48 PM
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the Earth!

Also, since we're here, did the massive IF power up ever get explained?

Hiromi
03-19-2015, 10:52 PM
Captain Morgan never specified WHICH Monday he'd post scans on, that sly dog

moonknight11
03-19-2015, 11:43 PM
Regular guys with fists are not dangers to spider-man. It would be like a year old toddler hitting you. I have a comic where he gets hit in the head by a regular guy full on in the back of the head and he makes fun of him by saying the dude just tried to give him a nuggy before back handing the guy.

I love the time where he let Punisher wail on him to no effect.

Captain Morgan
03-20-2015, 06:39 AM
Captain Morgan never specified WHICH Monday he'd post scans on, that sly dog

Heh. My bad. Totally forgot.

Also... I kinda stopped buying the newest IF series. It's not that good.