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themetropoliskid
05-01-2014, 01:08 PM
Spiderman https://marvel.com/universe/Spider-Man

vs.
Deathstroke http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Slade_Wilson_(New_Earth)

Slade Wilson is hired by the Kingpin to eliminate the web slinger. Can death stroke take down his target?

Rules:
Both have current skills and equipment. deathstroke has 1week prep.

MorphyVSFischer
05-01-2014, 01:17 PM
With one week Slade might be able to do something but Spiderman craps all over him in a straight fight.

Hiromi
05-01-2014, 01:38 PM
There is literally nothing Deathstroke can do, with or without prep, that Spiderman hasn't seen done and done better.

Hazard
05-01-2014, 04:26 PM
Spider-Man. He's faster, stronger, and all that stuff.

NuDeathstroke apparently has a nifty new armor, but I don't see that being enough even with prep.

Jonathan
05-01-2014, 08:00 PM
With one week Slade might be able to do something but Spiderman craps all over him in a straight fight.

Yeah, its really not that dissimilar from a Spiderman/Punisher fight.

Matt the Manly
05-01-2014, 10:39 PM
With a weeks prep Slade shoots Aunt May

Thus he wins when Peter makes a deal with the devil to sacrifice his life for hers , having nothing else left to give :p

Bluekey
05-02-2014, 12:53 AM
Spider sense negates the element of surprise for Deathstroke, which is really his only way to win.

The Drunkard Kid
05-02-2014, 04:58 AM
With a weeks prep Slade shoots Aunt May

Thus he wins when Peter makes a deal with the devil to sacrifice his life for hers , having nothing else left to give :p
Isn't Spidey currently Otto? Though I guess from the link this is supposed to be Peter...

Primetime Harder
05-02-2014, 05:04 AM
Isn't Spidey currently Otto?

I'm hardly up to date on Spider-Man (or, really, any) comics, but I heard that they recently undid the mind swap somehow.

The Drunkard Kid
05-02-2014, 05:13 AM
I'm hardly up to date on Spider-Man (or, really, any) comics, but I heard that they recently undid the mind swap somehow.

Well that is something I'm interested in learning more about.

Primetime Harder
05-02-2014, 05:31 AM
Well that is something I'm interested in learning more about.

Google-Fu reveals that it happens at some point in Superior Spider-Man #30. If you don't mind walls of text you could check out SSM's entry on wikipedia.

Hazard
05-02-2014, 07:20 AM
Isn't Spidey currently Otto? Though I guess from the link this is supposed to be Peter...

Peter recently regained his body after the Green Goblin took over NY. Osborn kidnapped Otto's new girlfriend. At loss of what to do to fix things, Otto had to let Peter return to his body.

bloodyarts
05-02-2014, 10:20 AM
Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so... :p:p

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.

Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke. Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight. Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.

I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.

Fast
05-02-2014, 10:24 AM
Yes IIRC Peter is back as Spidey and unless this return somehow depowered him he should win this easily even with Slade prep

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-02-2014, 10:28 AM
Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so... :p:p

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.

Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke. Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight. Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.

I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.

It should be noted that instances like the above are PIS and CIS, as outside of the plot, in a neutral setting, Slade would have been beaten bloody and hung out to dry.

It should also be noted that Spiderman getting tagged by slower opponents is also PIS and CIS, considering that the comic would be less than five pages long if Spiderman used his super speed 100% of the time.

zhris
05-02-2014, 10:31 AM
Slade is like Batman, it's all about the prep. He wouldn't face Spiderman directly unless it was unavoidable, and even then it would be mostly defensive. Given a week, if he knew who Spiderman was (Getting the contract from Fisk, that's a safe bet) he'd go after Peter's family and friends, set bombs across the city, and do everything he can to wear Peter down mentally and physically as much as possible before going in for the kill.

Matt the Manly
05-02-2014, 10:31 AM
Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so... :p:p

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.
Spiderman beating a herald of galactus is also canon. More canon than the currently rebooted fight you are referring to


Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke.
Thats what we call PIS


Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight.
one hit from Slade will do what , exactly to Pete?


Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.
This is true


I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.
Slade with the armour was struggling to put down Steve Trevor.

Pendaran
05-02-2014, 01:44 PM
Deathstroke solo'd the Justice League (minus the Trinity), including Green Lantern and Flash, so... :p:p

Lol, I know.. bad writing, but it's canon.

Still, against Spider-Man with 1 week prep? Spidey gets tagged all the time by lesser opponents than Deathstroke. Likely, getting tagged once will end the fight. Same if Spidey hits Deathstroke.

I don't like this new armor crap. Lessens Deathstroke and makes the armor the star.

Hey, so, welcome to Rubmles, there's in the welcome thread stickied at the top the policies we go by when we weight things for making claims about a dude's capacity in a fight.

For instance the problems of "it happened and its canon" mean also that Deathstroke could have it taken to him by Dick Grayson, which happened and it's canon, or a wide variety of problems he has had with well less than Spiderman, which have happened and are canon, and basically thus don't reconcile at all.

If you want to say "well that was a low showing", or talk about how some guy's powers shouldn't make that make sense, or what have you, you've started pretending you can apply logic to comics and talk about things like skill, and power, and what have you, in a medium where there are no such things and there is only "whatever the writer wants to happen" which means really that anyone can beat anyone, for any reason, as long as the writer wants it to happen, and whatever that person is capable of at some other time be damned. There are no such things otherwise as "low showings" or anything else.

If you don't want to give that as the answer to every fight thread posted here, and it seems like from your posts, you don't, well, again, welcome to Rumbles. To pretend like you can otherwise say something else so that we can enjoy pretend nerd debates about fictional characters beating each other up, we start with the idea of "so what if you could use logic and it actually mattered what someone's abilities and the abilities of the person they were fighting are?" and from there after several years of very aggravating trial and error, we sorted out a set of guidelines for doing so that tend to dodge basically just screaming for pages on end in ways that ultimately boil down to "I'm saying this counts and this doesn't because I say so".

So for instance, the "guys Slade tags", are people who show things like speed and reaction time Slade has never ever shown a remote fraction of. For Slade to hit them, they basically have to forget they are capable of that, or, they have to be Induced to be Stupid, for the sake of the Plot (or, reverse all that around and PIS), and in response to that, one of the things we firm up is "everyone remembers what their actual abilities are and will actually use them".

Or, for instance "lesser guys tag Spiderman all the time", they do, you bet. And the Hulk has been choked out by a snake, and the Silver Surfer been taken out with a brick. But again, see above for "power, speed and skill are irrelevant concepts that do not actually exist because these characters are not real and exist only to illustrate how a writer wants a story to go". Otherwise? Spiderman pretty reliably to the presentation of his powers and capacity and his overall career has busted out feats of agility, reflexes, reactions, that those guys shouldn't touch. And certainly that Deathstroke himself has never demonstrated out of, again, hitting people that are similarly forgetting how fast they can go. The people they fight don't get that plot gimme when we debate this stuff here.

If you don't like that notion, that's cool, and there's an endless sea of places out there where you can talk about these things without it, but up in here? We go by that sort of thing.

Hiromi
05-02-2014, 02:52 PM
With a weeks prep Slade shoots Aunt May

Thus he wins when Peter makes a deal with the devil to sacrifice his life for hers , having nothing else left to give :p

Man, no one's ever thought to go after Aunt May before that, and she's certainly never died before that. Seriously, Pete's seen just about everything at this point.

Hell(please note I am in no way shape or form trying to defend One More Day in any way whatsoever) it's almost surprisingly he hadn't tried to sell stuff to Mephisto years ago. I mean seriously you'd think the clones would have done it.

bloodyarts
05-02-2014, 05:18 PM
No PIS allowed is actually quite refreshing, although good luck getting people to not bring it up.

I am familiar with the Rumble rules as I'm not exactly new here. I was trying to present two conceivable scenarios. We have to at least assume that the TC had to believe this COULD be a fight, and is therefore worth exploring. That's just the sort of thing that I go by.

Now, as for Slade solo'ing the JL, yeah that's complete bs (notice the silly faces after I made the statement). It's not meant to be taken as proof that Slade would win based off that ridiculous feat.

But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.

Kraven can hit Spidey and he isn't on his level speed wise or anything, yet it's not PIS. He's just that skilled, and has studied Spidey enough to know how he moves and how to trap him.

Slade is just fast enough, just strong enough and just smart enough that if he planned it out, he can hit Spidey. With a lethal hit, no less. It may seem unlikely to some because omg Spidey powers, but I can see it. Pete is not untouchable. He's always holding back and he's not always moving at his fastest or using his full strength. He even ignores his spider sense at times, or he can't avoid the particular danger, even though he's fully aware of it.

The JL solo feat may be malarky, but at the very least, it is consistent with Slade's tactics efficiency, which can be applied against anyone. Now, whether he has the raw power or utilized the right tools to administer the finishing blow is another matter.

My personal opinion? Spider-Man takes it, but if someone argued the other way, I wouldn't automatically write it off as lolnewb.

MidTierHero
05-02-2014, 06:04 PM
Slade wins with prep. The Punisher has been humiliating Spider-Man for years with prep, and Deathstroke is as good/better.

Pendaran
05-02-2014, 06:19 PM
But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.


The Flash' speed, just to pick one of those examples, is such that he can be shot at from behind, such that the fractional sensation of the bullet just touching his neck is enough to reflexively send the world into frozen mode such that he can react to that merest sensation and get out of the way of the bullet.

Superspeed, super reflexes, what have you, unless you are talking about Waid Era Karate Kid as the only example I can think of off the top of my head, don't have an "off switch". They're always there. When the person with them has to conveniently forget they have them to get hit/for the comic to have a plot, that's what PIS is in what I would call an almost platonic ideal of it.

You're trying to compare something that people have to will into being with "someone's reflexes". Someone's reflexes are, what they are.



Slade is just fast enough, just strong enough and just smart enough that if he planned it out, he can hit Spidey. With a lethal hit, no less. It may seem unlikely to some because omg Spidey powers, but I can see it. Pete is not untouchable. He's always holding back and he's not always moving at his fastest or using his full strength. He even ignores his spider sense at times, or he can't avoid the particular danger, even though he's fully aware of it.

There are certainly lots of reasons given for why Spiderman underperforms to his superpowers. We don't truck in them here. If Spiderman actually used what his reflexes are shown to be, unless some of Slade's prep involved managing to trap him in a huge mass of glue.. somehow, flooding the area with some viscous material, or completely and utterly getting the drop on him from stealth such that the spider sense is not usefully going off (which again.. somehow), to all of Slade Wilson? Spiderman operating on the better levels he's shown he can operate? He's untouchable just fine as far as Deathstroke trying to physically hit him.

The arguments you are using amount to nothing more than "he will for some reason forget what his powers are".

master of read
05-02-2014, 06:41 PM
Slade wins with prep. The Punisher has been humiliating Spider-Man for years with prep, and Deathstroke is as good/better.

give me some examples of frank doing this to peter.

MorphyVSFischer
05-02-2014, 06:52 PM
But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory? Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed. GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration. Manhunter isn't always intangible.

Actaully PIS being off means none of these things will ever happen. PIS is the only reason they don't do these things.

MidTierHero
05-02-2014, 08:05 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GbysSOIs.jpg (http://imgur.com/GbysSOI) http://i.imgur.com/fVxfhB6s.jpg (http://imgur.com/fVxfhB6)

Pendaran
05-02-2014, 08:16 PM
Annd.. what comic is that from, and how did he manage that in the first place?

master of read
05-02-2014, 08:23 PM
a lot of that looks like PIS/CIS.

Hazard
05-02-2014, 08:24 PM
All I am seeing is a lot of scans of Spider-Man jobbing because he's forgetting how much stronger and faster than Frank he is.

It happens.

Writers usually try to push that angle during Spider-man Punisher team-ups.

Kind of like how they try to present Hulk vs Wolverine as an exciting fight.

What would actually happen if Spider-Man wasn't jobbing would be Frank being caught and jailed, but then we wouldn't get many Punisher comic appearances.

master of read
05-02-2014, 08:33 PM
All I am seeing is a lot of scans of Spider-Man jobbing because he's forgetting how much stronger and faster than Frank he is.

It happens.

Writers usually try to push that angle during Spider-man Punisher team-ups.

Kind of like how they try to present Hulk vs Wolverine as an exciting fight.

What would actually happen if Spider-Man wasn't jobbing would be Frank being caught and jailed, but then we wouldn't get many Punisher comic appearances.

glad i'm not the only one. considering that peter's spider-sense has warned him when someone near him wants to do him harm without him knowing it and warning him that someone is looking at him when he's changing out of his costume, its very unlikely that frank could get the jump on him in those scans without massive PIS/CIS.

but like you said, it happens.

Hiromi
05-02-2014, 09:26 PM
Disregarding Frank Miller's (whose noted for having a very vocal anti super masked hero bias) pet character

I'm pretty certain we still function under the 3 scans per comic limit for board posting rules.

Matt the Manly
05-02-2014, 09:35 PM
No PIS allowed is actually quite refreshing, although good luck getting people to not bring it up.
You are bringing it up when you say stuff like Slade can tag The Flash


But do you think if he prepped for ONE of them for a week, that he couldn't come out with a victory?
Probably no


Depends on who, of course, but even high tier characters can get hit. Flash isn't always moving at light speed.
Yes he is. As in he can react to stuff from a standstill. bullets for example.


GL isn't always armored or using highest concentration.
I dunno what you are arguing about here with reference to Slade/Kyle. Kyle just stood there like a moron without doing anything and tried to throw a punch at Slade. A punch. Its not even like Slade caught him by surprise or anything

And whats even more insulting is how Kyle previously just trapped Slade in a green prison like a joke.


Manhunter isn't always intangible.
No he isnt. which is why someone like Wally can beat him

However considering he has close to light speed reflexes , someone like Batman going "all i need is a pack of matches" isnt even going to bother him

Or, no he is not always intangible but he can (most of the time) react fast enough to go intangible


Kraven can hit Spidey and he isn't on his level speed wise or anything, yet it's not PIS. He's just that skilled, and has studied Spidey enough to know how he moves and how to trap him.
Deathstroke is not Kraven. He isnt a guy who has been presented as a good workout for Peter since Day 1 , with potions /clean living / whatever comic book reason has been given to show they are on a comparable level

Slade is a guy who struggles to put down Batman.


Slade is just fast enough, just strong enough and just smart enough that if he planned it out, he can hit Spidey.
This is very unlikely unless you mean with a gun. even then he has to do some ridiculous stuff like have multiple bombs go off, and throw citizens off rooftops or stuff for pete to be distracted enough to get shot

and even then its unlikely given "lol spider sense"


With a lethal hit, no less. presumably you mean with some sort of fancy gun because Slade sure as hell cant land a lethal hit with his fists alone


It may seem unlikely to some because omg Spidey powers, but I can see it. Pete is not untouchable. He's always holding back and he's not always moving at his fastest or using his full strength. He even ignores his spider sense at times, or he can't avoid the particular danger, even though he's fully aware of it.
and what do we call all that? You know the very thing you said you were not going to bring up?

Anyway rumbles rules specify a character is always fighting at full capacity unless stated otherwise


The JL solo feat may be malarky, but at the very least, it is consistent with Slade's tactics efficiency,
What....I honestly didnt see any "tactics" in that fight other than people acting real stupid/ forgetting their powers altogether


which can be applied against anyone. Now, whether he has the raw power or utilized the right tools to administer the finishing blow is another matter.
I cant see how his "tactics" of having people forget their powers is going to work in a PIS-off battle


My personal opinion? Spider-Man takes it, but if someone argued the other way, I wouldn't automatically write it off as lolnewb.
Im not writing you off as a newb given that i am one myself. its just that your reasoning is not making sense to me when you start with a claim of you not using PIS as an argument

sta8541
05-06-2014, 07:27 PM
Great scans; thanks for posting.

KingEli
05-06-2014, 08:07 PM
As said the reason Slade vs. The JLA is PIS of the highest order is-

A) Kyle can blow up planets and contain supernovas
B) Wally outran death

In what way can Deathstroke win against those 2 in a straight up fight w/prep?

Seto Kaiba
05-06-2014, 08:47 PM
I'm not familiar with Deathstroke but does he basically have no superpowers and is like Captain America only evil?

And even if he can negate Peter's Spider-Sense, he still has that "Way of the Spider" training. He learned to live without his Spider Sense for awhile and then when it came back he was an absolute beast in combat.

I honestly don't see prep helping him at all.

Siriel
05-06-2014, 08:57 PM
I'm pretty certain we still function under the 3 scans per comic limit for board posting rules.

This is correct. The excessive posts have been deleted.

Siriel
05-06-2014, 09:00 PM
I'm not familiar with Deathstroke but does he basically have no superpowers and is like Captain America only evil?


Deathstroke is slightly metahuman, I think. Enough to put him a bit above the likes of Batman and Captain America in stats despite his somewhat lesser skill in hand to hand, but certainly nowhere near the level of Spiderman.

Or so it was before the DC reboot. I don't know where he stands in the New 52.

MidTierHero
05-07-2014, 03:43 AM
This is correct. The excessive posts have been deleted.

Almost all of those scans you deleted were from different comics. There was one or two scenes with five scans from a single comic but the majority were two or three per comic. The art is very different between each scene so I'm not sure why it's against the rules... How else can someone provide evidence?

Daenarys Stormborn
05-07-2014, 04:10 AM
I'd say Deathstroke only chance is a scenario where he kidnaps Aunt May, Mary Jane, etc. After that he'd need to rig them with enough explosion it could level a few city block. At that point he'd need to hide and hope Spider-man doesn't find him, or figure out a way to easily disable the explosives. Some kind of timer or something would be required. Of course, peter literally saved someone from just this kind bombs all around scenario very recently. Norman rigged a roof with hundreds of pumpkin bombs and spidey was still able to save the day. So...yeah...

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 01:31 PM
Slade prepping WOULD involve him getting hold of a gas attack that could slow Spidey, even disable his Spider-Sense. He'd pull a Black Cat and rig the area with traps (bombs, knockout gas, etc.). That's how he took out most of the Titans in "The Judas Contract". His best strength showings put him around classic Cap/Selene to Kraven showings strength-wise. At least he was strong enough to surprise Donna Troy and win a "Magic Lasso Tug-Of-War"! He's fast enough to dodge gunfire--several showings, from his debut in NTT #2 to NTT Annual 3--and energy blasts.

Speaking of energy blasts, Slade survived a point-blank blast in the chest from Starfire at full power. He might not match Spidey straight up in stats, but he's no weakling, either!

Guy1
05-07-2014, 01:34 PM
Deathstroke is slightly metahuman, I think. Enough to put him a bit above the likes of Batman and Captain America in stats despite his somewhat lesser skill in hand to hand, but certainly nowhere near the level of Spiderman.

Or so it was before the DC reboot. I don't know where he stands in the New 52.

He's running around with Nth Metal Armor now last I checked, IIRC, it gave him some level of superhuman durability. At least enough to take hits from New 52 Lobo, but I'm not all that knowledgeable on either of them.

Froggy
05-07-2014, 02:12 PM
He's running around with Nth Metal Armor now last I checked, IIRC, it gave him some level of superhuman durability. At least enough to take hits from New 52 Lobo, but I'm not all that knowledgeable on either of them.

that's the one lobo appearance
:
Deathstroke is slightly more meta but more or less the same guy

Just operating at a higher level you could say

big_adventure
05-07-2014, 04:42 PM
Spade prepping WOULD involve him getting hold of a gas attack that could slow Spidey, even disable his Spider-Sense.

Slade has never, ever shown the kind of science to do that. Where does that idea come from?

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-07-2014, 04:52 PM
that's the one lobo appearance

It's also not the real Lobo. Real Lobo, when he showed up, was at least able to not get flat out murdered, when Kara started laying into him.


:
Deathstroke is slightly more meta but more or less the same guy

Just operating at a higher level you could say

His armor's operating at a higher level. Slade's about the same.


Slade has never, ever shown the kind of science to do that. Where does that idea come from?

Who the hell is Spade, anyway?

How strong is the guy? Is Spiderman about to meet a gravelly demise? Did Spiderman delve too quickly and too deep?

.. what do the Molemen think of this?

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 05:14 PM
Slade has never, ever shown the kind of science to do that. Where does that idea come from?

Dude, he'll STEAL it or get it from a contact.

@Chthulhu: "Spade" is the alternate Deathstroke from Earth-iPad Autocorrect.

Guy1
05-07-2014, 05:16 PM
Dude, he'll STEAL it or get it from a contact.

With prep, characters get access to their own resources. Not outside help or objects that they can steal from others.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-07-2014, 05:21 PM
@Chthulhu: "Spade" is the alternate Deathstroke from Earth-iPad Autocorrect.

Pretty sure this needs to happen.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 05:24 PM
With prep, characters get access to their own resources. Not outside help or objects that they can steal from others.

Slade still has proficiency with drugs, poisons, and traps. He tricked Wonder Girl into gassing herself in her photo studio--WHICH is an AWESOME trap for Spidey! There's also drugged stamps, bombs, a customized "electric chair" that jolts the unwary sitter.

Plus, Deathstroke has a healing factor and crazy reflexes in his best showings. Slade is like a Year One Spider-Man in many respects. With his gear, he could at least get, what, 4/10 fights?

Siriel
05-07-2014, 05:25 PM
Almost all of those scans you deleted were from different comics. There was one or two scenes with five scans from a single comic but the majority were two or three per comic. The art is very different between each scene so I'm not sure why it's against the rules... How else can someone provide evidence?

Apologies for the overreaction then. I'm afraid copyright issues are pretty sensitive so I didn't check closely enough at all of them in my haste.

Hazard
05-07-2014, 05:32 PM
Slade still has proficiency with drugs, poisons, and traps. He tricked Wonder Girl into gassing herself in her photo studio--WHICH is an AWESOME trap for Spidey! There's also drugged stamps, bombs, a customized "electric chair" that jolts the unwary sitter.

Plus, Deathstroke has a healing factor and crazy reflexes in his best showings. Slade is like a Year One Spider-Man in many respects. With his gear, he could at least get, what, 4/10 fights?

Not really.

You said poison that could disable his Spider-sense. He has never shown access to anything like that and never shown the ability to make something like that either.

So Spidey-sense warns Spidey of all possible traps.

Hiromi
05-07-2014, 05:42 PM
Slade still has proficiency with drugs, poisons, and traps. He tricked Wonder Girl into gassing herself in her photo studio--WHICH is an AWESOME trap for Spidey! There's also drugged stamps, bombs, a customized "electric chair" that jolts the unwary sitter.

Plus, Deathstroke has a healing factor and crazy reflexes in his best showings. Slade is like a Year One Spider-Man in many respects. With his gear, he could at least get, what, 4/10 fights?

What is Deathstroke doing to Spidey with Gas and various traps that Mysterio hasn't tried? How is he getting through the Spidersense and borderline bullet timer outright speedster reaction speed he has?

Please don't bring up the "healing factor," it's slow to the point of useless in a fight.

Vic Vega
05-07-2014, 05:42 PM
Do mooks/goons/henchmen count as "outside help"?

Because the only way I can see Slade even making a fight of it is if he falls back on the "kidnap one of Pete's buddies and stash him/her in a booby trapped warehouse manned by goons" gambit.

Maybe after Pete deals with Slade's gauntlet, he'd be tired enough to get tagged by sniper fire.

And I don't even think that will work, really.

It's just less of a suicide run than anything else Slade could do.

Hazard
05-07-2014, 05:45 PM
What is Deathstroke doing to Spidey with Gas and various traps that Mysterio hasn't tried? How is he getting through the Spidersense and borderline bullet timer outright speedster reaction speed he has?

Please don't bring up the "healing factor," it's slow to the point of useless in a fight.

Forgot to mention that guy.

But yeah, Mysterio does some crazy stuff that Spider-Man nevertheless manages to beat. The guy's prep is more impressive than anything Slade can bring to the table.

Tangent Man
05-07-2014, 06:41 PM
What is Deathstroke doing to Spidey with Gas and various traps that Mysterio hasn't tried? How is he getting through the Spidersense and borderline bullet timer outright speedster reaction speed he has?

Please don't bring up the "healing factor," it's slow to the point of useless in a fight.

It's helped him survive direct hits by much stronger foes. It's a part of Slade's arsenal.

Slade's dodged bullets, too, from automatic gunfire. When Terra shot Deathstroke high over New York City, he not only survived the eruptive blast, he reacted quickly and nimbly enough to snag a skyscraper wall with his sword, use acrobatics to redirect his fall, and controlled it with bursts of his staff. Slade could give Spidey as hard a time as Kraven, and a helluva harder time than some disgruntled senior citizen with even lower-end super-strength and a gliding suit.

Guy1
05-07-2014, 06:48 PM
It's helped him survive direct hits by much stronger foes. It's a part of Slade's arsenal.

Logan has that too. It really doesn't help him against Spider-Man.
If this is Peter with Web Shooters, he can just do what he did to Blob and bury Slade under a ton of web fluid and leave him to suffocate.
With organics? Spidey can just web him up until Slade flat out cannot move followed by webbing his mouth and nose shut.

Don't get me wrong, Slade is good. Real good. But he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table that Spidey hasn't fought and beaten before.
Strength: Spidey. Class 10-15.
Speed: Spidey. High Bullet Timer.
Skill: Slade might have more technical skill, but Spidey is very experienced and no slouch at all. Plus, Spider Sense.
Slade just can't take Spidey in a head to head fight.

Pendaran
05-07-2014, 06:52 PM
Slade prepping WOULD involve him getting hold of a gas attack that could slow Spidey, even disable his Spider-Sense. He'd pull a Black Cat and rig the area with traps (bombs, knockout gas, etc.). That's how he took out most of the Titans in "The Judas Contract". His best strength showings put him around classic Cap/Selene to Kraven showings strength-wise. At least he was strong enough to surprise Donna Troy and win a "Magic Lasso Tug-Of-War"! He's fast enough to dodge gunfire--several showings, from his debut in NTT #2 to NTT Annual 3--and energy blasts.

Speaking of energy blasts, Slade survived a point-blank blast in the chest from Starfire at full power. He might not match Spidey straight up in stats, but he's no weakling, either!

If you're trying to say Slade moves in bullet time, the time he did so in NTT especially noted Slade already being on the move in contrast to the panel with the machine guns opening up. That makes it leaping up from where they're going to shoot, which is aim dodging. Slade has otherwise not done well for himself in things like his initial confrontation straight up with someone like Batgirl, as far as his reflexes. With Donna Troy, Donna noted how that tug of war ended being as much the result of her losing her footing and getting cocky. A Donna Troy that has lost her footing weighs as much as.. a person, more or less, as far as Slade tossing her.

While the guy's stats are moderately beyond peak human, it's not like he's some bullet timing class 10 brick.

master of read
05-07-2014, 06:53 PM
Logan has that too. It really doesn't help him against Spider-Man.
If this is Peter with Web Shooters, he can just do what he did to Blob and bury Slade under a ton of web fluid and leave him to suffocate.
With organics? Spidey can just web him up until Slade flat out cannot move followed by webbing his mouth and nose shut.

Don't get me wrong, Slade is good. Real good. But he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table that Spidey hasn't fought and beaten before.
Strength: Spidey. Class 10-15.
Speed: Spidey. High Bullet Timer.
Skill: Slade might have more technical skill, but Spidey is very experienced and no slouch at all. Plus, Spider Sense.
Slade just can't take Spidey in a head to head fight.

peter's been fighting guys who prep for him for years: green goblins, doc ock, mysterio as was already mentioned. not to mention that they are aware of the spider-sense and try to counter it. peter beat'em all. even if slade had knowledge of the spidersense (not a lot of people do), and had the feats for creating a gas that is tailor made to negate it in some way, it doesn't always mean a win.

Pendaran
05-07-2014, 06:57 PM
Slade's dodged bullets, too, from automatic gunfire.

Slade was noted as already being on the move after the panel talking about the section of wall sliding away.

That makes for the guns as having shot where Slade had jumped away from. That makes it functionally aim dodging.

http://s18.postimg.org/tb83olvqh/Large_New_Teen_Titans_v1_02_02.jpg

If it says he's already moving, which it does, that's not like he waited for the guns to start firing, that's him jumping out the way early enough, but not late enough for correction, and the guns firing where he was. All he has to do to aim dodge is keep doing that. A wide variety of non bullet timing street level people do that kind of thing.

Hiromi
05-07-2014, 07:03 PM
It's helped him survive direct hits by much stronger foes. It's a part of Slade's arsenal.

Slade's dodged bullets, too, from automatic gunfire. When Terra shot Deathstroke high over New York City, he not only survived the eruptive blast, he reacted quickly and nimbly enough to snag a skyscraper wall with his sword, use acrobatics to redirect his fall, and controlled it with bursts of his staff. Slade could give Spidey as hard a time as Kraven, and a helluva harder time than some disgruntled senior citizen with even lower-end super-strength and a gliding suit.

As I understand it, it allows him to get up from a potentially fatal hit yet, but like an hour later, he's not the Wade version of Wilsons that can regen from goo, have his brain stabbed, or lose limbs, and regen fast enough to keep on going. It's just not a feasible power against someone like Pete or many opponents regardless operating under bloodlust.

seaturkey
05-08-2014, 12:40 AM
It's helped him survive direct hits by much stronger foes. It's a part of Slade's arsenal.

Slade's dodged bullets, too, from automatic gunfire. When Terra shot Deathstroke high over New York City, he not only survived the eruptive blast, he reacted quickly and nimbly enough to snag a skyscraper wall with his sword, use acrobatics to redirect his fall, and controlled it with bursts of his staff. Slade could give Spidey as hard a time as Kraven, and a helluva harder time than some disgruntled senior citizen with even lower-end super-strength and a gliding suit.

I agree with the bolded part. Slade is pretty much the creme de la creme of the merc world in DC and spidey's had trouble with guys like Cap A (ie better h2h fighters). He'll be more than capable of putting spidey through the ropes, but that doesn't mean he'll win, either.

I give the edge to spiderman but it's alot closer than some of my fellow posters seem to think.

rockingmoses
05-08-2014, 01:57 AM
I agree with the bolded part. Slade is pretty much the creme de la creme of the merc world in DC and spidey's had trouble with guys like Cap A (ie better h2h fighters). He'll be more than capable of putting spidey through the ropes, but that doesn't mean he'll win, either.

I give the edge to spiderman but it's alot closer than some of my fellow posters seem to think.
In Rumble's setting, Spidey has zero trouble with guys like Cap.

Pendaran
05-08-2014, 05:24 AM
I agree with the bolded part. Slade is pretty much the creme de la creme of the merc world in DC and spidey's had trouble with guys like Cap A (ie better h2h fighters). He'll be more than capable of putting spidey through the ropes, but that doesn't mean he'll win, either.

I give the edge to spiderman but it's alot closer than some of my fellow posters seem to think.

When Spiderman forgets for sake of the plot that he himself is a bullet timing class 10+ brick, he has trouble with Captain America, who is none of those things, yes.

Slade1
05-08-2014, 05:46 AM
Although NuDS seems to be in the metahuman category, I don't think he can defeat Spiderman. I can't think what he could do with prep that would even the odds.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 09:50 AM
Although NuDS seems to be in the metahuman category, I don't think he can defeat Spiderman. I can't think what he could do with prep that would even the odds.

Nothing about Slade has changed int he NuDC except the armor he wears.

Slade1
05-08-2014, 01:10 PM
Nothing about Slade has changed int he NuDC except the armor he wears.

I don't read his comics so I was going by what other posters were saying.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-08-2014, 01:52 PM
I don't read his comics so I was going by what other posters were saying.

It's cool, just clarifying the difference.

big_adventure
05-09-2014, 01:25 AM
I don't read his comics so I was going by what other posters were saying.

Ironic, given your board name. :-)

sta8541
05-09-2014, 10:50 AM
Spider-Man should take this if he is written to spec, in my opinion: too strong, too quick, too agile, too durable, too much Spider Sense, too much stamina, too smart, too experienced & battle-tested, etc., etc., & etc.