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moonknight11
05-01-2014, 02:26 PM
Which metal armed badass wins?

Rules:

1. No alchemy except Edward giving his arm a blade as he usually does.
2. No weapons, except for WS getting his knife.

1st match: Comic WS
2nd match: Movie WS.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
05-01-2014, 09:10 PM
I guess the question of the day is; which version of Edward is this? Brotherhood, or the Anime version?

moonknight11
05-01-2014, 09:16 PM
lets go with brotherhood.

Mr.Alucard
04-20-2016, 08:00 PM
Edward would do what he did against Greed and make his arm as strong at titanium, however even with that Edward is small and relays on his alchemy in fights. Winter soldier would win.

The Chou Lives
04-20-2016, 08:07 PM
I think Bucky.

Better arm and all around bad ass even more than Alchemy-less Ed.

Hell in that plot it was revealed Buckybwas WW2s Eambooo who snuck behind enemy lines and killed people before Cap and co advanced.

The Dork Knight
04-20-2016, 09:56 PM
What's the other guy's speed like . Because 616 Bucky's peak human

Cleric of Hell's Brigade
04-21-2016, 04:55 AM
Let's not discredit Edward. The pipsqueek is very, very good at CQC. Him and Al are both highly trained and very quick. Plus Ed has some sick anime durability.

Lord Falcon
04-21-2016, 05:23 AM
Okay, I was initially inclined to give this to Bucky, but Edward is not only skilled, but crazy fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZzwova0z_I

Edward is fast enough to jump over a battou sword slash after the swordsman starts his draw.

And fast enough to easily hit Greed twice before Greed can counter, even though the first hit explicitly does absolutely nothing to slow Greed down.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 06:12 AM
He looks really fast in that fight.

He also slams the dude into the ground hard enough to break stone (0:45). Like, break stone into fist-sized+ chunks, not crack it.

Poking around, I've found he's skilled/accurate enough to slice a glove off of a guy's hand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPuhZ73NfY), mid-fight (2:30).

Unless Bucky got some kind of massive upgrade in the new Cap movie, I'm giving this one to Elric. Not like it's going to be EASY, based on what I've seen so far, but still. Majority.

The Dork Knight
04-21-2016, 07:03 AM
Well comic Bucky at least wins based on the feats so far

Captain Morgan
04-21-2016, 07:37 AM
Is this Ed with the cold weather automail? That makes him significantly faster but costs him some striking power. But it also makes him faster than Scar, who is at minimum an aim dodger whose whole deal is blitzing people.

I think Scar only has bullet time feats in the original anime, not Brotherhood though.

Lord Falcon
04-21-2016, 09:56 AM
He looks really fast in that fight.

He also slams the dude into the ground hard enough to break stone (0:45). Like, break stone into fist-sized+ chunks, not crack it.

Poking around, I've found he's skilled/accurate enough to slice a glove off of a guy's hand (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMPuhZ73NfY), mid-fight (2:30).

Unless Bucky got some kind of massive upgrade in the new Cap movie, I'm giving this one to Elric. Not like it's going to be EASY, based on what I've seen so far, but still. Majority.

In fairness, a bit of the rock shattering is probably due to Greed's abnormal density due to his powers. But yeah, Ed is probably stronger than Bucky. Less damage soak though, which keeps the fight interesting.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 10:21 AM
In fairness, a bit of the rock shattering is probably due to Greed's abnormal density due to his powers.

Just how dense is the dude? Drop a half-ton chunk of man-sized metal on concrete from about four feet up, you're not going to get it burying itself into the rock and chunks of rock the size of your fist flying up into the air.

And if he's so dense that falling four to five feet DOES cause that kind of ruin, it's a tribute to Ed's strength that he managed to flip him over like that.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-21-2016, 11:33 AM
In fairness, a bit of the rock shattering is probably due to Greed's abnormal density due to his powers. But yeah, Ed is probably stronger than Bucky. Less damage soak though, which keeps the fight interesting.

Mm, Ed's damage soak is pretty respectable. Getting into a knockdown drag out with a hole in his bicep, taking beatings from Greed and the like and still fighting afterwards. Comic Bucky has more soak, methinks, but yeh know.


Just how dense is the dude? Drop a half-ton chunk of man-sized metal on concrete from about four feet up, you're not going to get it burying itself into the rock and chunks of rock the size of your fist flying up into the air.

And if he's so dense that falling four to five feet DOES cause that kind of ruin, it's a tribute to Ed's strength that he managed to flip him over like that.

Basically, Greed alters the carbon level in his body (he's not human), boosting his durability to ridiculous levels. Ed is ridiculously strong, is the thing. Rips rebar out of concrete one handed without leverage sort of strong.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 11:38 AM
Thanks!

Durability is one thing, and that's fine. Density is another. Does it increase his mass?

No question Ed is strong - that's sort of my point. Either:

1. Greed isn't more dense, just more durable, and it's Ed's strength that's pounding him into the rock hard enough to shatter it and make fist-sized chunks fly up into the air;
2. Greed IS more dense, a lot more dense, and it's his falling mass that's shattering that rock as depicted...in which case Ed is still ridiculously strong to be tossing him around like that.

:)

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-21-2016, 11:58 AM
Thanks!

Durability is one thing, and that's fine. Density is another. Does it increase his mass?

No question Ed is strong - that's sort of my point. Either:

1. Greed isn't more dense, just more durable, and it's Ed's strength that's pounding him into the rock hard enough to shatter it and make fist-sized chunks fly up into the air;
2. Greed IS more dense, a lot more dense, and it's his falling mass that's shattering that rock as depicted...in which case Ed is still ridiculously strong to be tossing him around like that.

:)

It does increase his density, or at least that's the explanation Greed gives, but it doesn't make him heavier. So his weight might be part of it; but most if it's just Edward.

Len Ikari145
04-21-2016, 11:59 AM
Basically, Greed alters the carbon level in his body (he's not human), boosting his durability to ridiculous levels. Ed is ridiculously strong, is the thing. Rips rebar out of concrete one handed without leverage sort of strong.

Just to note further that he did that with his human hand.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-21-2016, 12:17 PM
Just to note further that he did that with his human hand.

And the lack of leverage was because he was pinned to the concrete slab by his OTHER arm. Edward is a beast, SHORT-tempered, little beast.

Lord Falcon
04-21-2016, 02:10 PM
Greed weighs more when he triggers his power, basically. But yeah, Ed is still extremely strong for such a short guy. *triggers Ed's berzerk pounding*

*Crawls back from the afterlife*

I'd say movie Bucky still has superior soak. He took an utter pounding from Cap, got choked out, and was up and fighting within seconds. And before that he took a bullet to his gogles and it barely did more than piss him off.

Not that it's enough. Ed takes a very large majority, maybe even 10/10.

The Chou Lives
04-21-2016, 02:22 PM
Yeah I think Movie Bucky loses.

But comic Bucky is a beast.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 05:36 PM
It does increase his density, or at least that's the explanation Greed gives, but it doesn't make him heavier.

.....

This contradicts. :(

The Chou Lives
04-21-2016, 05:37 PM
.....

This contradicts. :(

Yeah because Density= Weight.

So Ed has to be meta human to toss Greed as he carbons up.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-21-2016, 06:32 PM
.....

This contradicts. :(

I am aware.

Main issue is, it's not really shown whether or not he gets heavier. One can assume, but it doesn't really change the fact that he's not heavy enough to explode the ground by falling.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 06:36 PM
It's certainly related to weight. If you increase the density without changing the volume, the mass will automatically increase. It can't...not.

Sharpandpointies
04-21-2016, 06:38 PM
I am aware.

Main issue is, it's not really shown whether or not he gets heavier. One can assume, but it doesn't really change the fact that he's not heavy enough to explode the ground by falling.

I'm cool with that. ^_^

I'm just taking issue with the idea that 'his density increases but his mass doesn't'. If he's just increasing his durability or something (which makes more sense if he's just mucking around with his carbon atoms), that's a different matter.

But this isn't just 'superpowers work differently' this is 'if his mass isn't increasing, we're no longer talking about density, period'.

Density = mass/volume. Change density, one of those other things has to change. Period.

The Drunkard Kid
04-21-2016, 06:56 PM
To be fair, in that scene, only Greed's forearms were diamond-ized. The rest of him is still human...ish.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-21-2016, 07:04 PM
I'm cool with that. ^_^

I'm just taking issue with the idea that 'his density increases but his mass doesn't'. If he's just increasing his durability or something (which makes more sense if he's just mucking around with his carbon atoms), that's a different matter.

But this isn't just 'superpowers work differently' this is 'if his mass isn't increasing, we're no longer talking about density, period'.

Density = mass/volume. Change density, one of those other things has to change. Period.

True.

Also keep in mind that Greed is the one who explained it. Greed is not the smartest individual around. Though, he does muck with his carbon, and Edward proceeds to beat him by transmuting him in between blows, as they're fighting.

Which, really, is a pretty great speed feed.

Sharkerbob
04-21-2016, 07:24 PM
To be fair, in that scene, only Greed's forearms were diamond-ized. The rest of him is still human...ish.

Yeah, I thought it was just his skin that carbonized? That would increase the density of his skin, surely, but wouldn't make him a appreciably heavier than usual.

Captain Morgan
04-21-2016, 11:30 PM
Dunno where this Greed being heavier thing is coming from. That actively contradicts not just how his powers are described, but the entire concept of equivalent exchange which is fundamental to the show.

Envy, on the other hand, WAS super dense and heavy in her humanoid forms, because she was actually a giant monsters shrunk down into smaller form. I think maybe that's where the confusion is coming from.

Lord Falcon
04-22-2016, 06:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhza0DBAong

When Greed jumps down from a decent height, his body causes the stone floor beneath him to crack about 3 feet in every direction.

Later when Greed manages to go full shield mode, he tanks a hit from a bazooka and doesn't get blown backwards.

Captain Morgan
04-22-2016, 08:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhza0DBAong

When Greed jumps down from a decent height, his body causes the stone floor beneath him to crack about 3 feet in every direction.

Later when Greed manages to go full shield mode, he tanks a hit from a bazooka and doesn't get blown backwards.

He's an indestructible guy hitting concrete at terminal velocity. Something has to give in that situation. Normally a person would splatter, but he doesn't, and the entire force of his impact is concentrated into the small points of his feet.

The bazooka thing probably should have knocked him back, but rule of cool. Right after the bazooka hit him, he gets hit by a car which shoves him back just fine.

Lord Falcon
04-22-2016, 04:38 PM
He's an indestructible guy hitting concrete at terminal velocity. Something has to give in that situation. Normally a person would splatter, but he doesn't, and the entire force of his impact is concentrated into the small points of his feet.

The bazooka thing probably should have knocked him back, but rule of cool. Right after the bazooka hit him, he gets hit by a car which shoves him back just fine.

If you dropped a stone the weight of a normal person onto concrete from that height, it wouldn't break that extensively.

It's a truck at high speed. We're not arguing over whether Greed weighs like solid gold, but he is considerably heavier than a normal person his size would be when his powers are activated.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-22-2016, 05:04 PM
If you dropped a stone the weight of a normal person onto concrete from that height, it wouldn't break that extensively.

It's a truck at high speed. We're not arguing over whether Greed weighs like solid gold, but he is considerably heavier than a normal person his size would be when his powers are activated.

But still not heavy enough to hyper-crater the ground by falling a few feat.

Which means Ed is even more impressive for both slamming him down, and being able to punch him hard enough to do that.

Lord Falcon
04-22-2016, 08:30 PM
But still not heavy enough to hyper-crater the ground by falling a few feat.

I think you may have thought my post meant Greed wasn't that heavy, but I'm arguing he is. We're in agreement here. :)

And yeah, Ed is quite the little beast in CQC. Not that I ever understood why he didn't just spam alchemy giant ground spikes everywhere.

Captain Morgan
04-22-2016, 08:41 PM
I think you may have thought my post meant Greed wasn't that heavy, but I'm arguing he is. We're in agreement here. :)

And yeah, Ed is quite the little beast in CQC. Not that I ever understood why he didn't just spam alchemy giant ground spikes everywhere.

Pretty much anyone not named Wrath or Mustang fought with a lot of PIS in that show. Greed barely ever went full shield mode, Gluttony barely used his dimension dump, etc.

Lord Falcon
04-22-2016, 08:53 PM
Greedling as a neophyte wasn't capable of going full shield mode at first. Gluttony is...not the brightest bulb. Also, using their powers drew on their philosopher's stone. That was why Greed and Pride could spam their power when full, but were much reduced after having to regenerate too many times. Greedling specifically had to ask inner Greed to help him draw on more power than he would normally be able to when he finally went full shield mode.

The Dork Knight
04-22-2016, 08:57 PM
So does he beat Comic Bucky or not

Captain Morgan
04-22-2016, 10:59 PM
Also, can Ed transmute his arm's carbon like he did against Pride? That would functionally render his arm indestructible. Bucky might otherwise have the superior hardware.


Greedling as a neophyte wasn't capable of going full shield mode at first.

Which was never adequately explained. Dude doesn't know how to use his one power or something?


Gluttony is...not the brightest bulb.

Fair point.


Also, using their powers drew on their philosopher's stone. That was why Greed and Pride could spam their power when full, but were much reduced after having to regenerate too many times.

Eh... I don't recall this ever being stated, nor did their performance really suggest it. Their powers (as opposed to their regen) were pretty much demonstrated to be self-sustaining closed circuits. Greed and Envy didn't create new matter, but merely rearranged their existing atoms. Wrath was a badass despite only having one soul in his stone. Pride still wrecked just as hard after being beaten to hell by Heinkel the lion man, and didn't mention being restored from eating Gluttony, despite being prone to bragging and otherwise giving a pretty in depth analysis of how consuming his brother affected him.


Greedling specifically had to ask inner Greed to help him draw on more power than he would normally be able to when he finally went full shield mode.

Ling had to get permission to use the shield at all. Up until that point, Ling never used the shield when he was in the driver's seat.


So does he beat Comic Bucky or not

Hard to say. The top tier fighters in this world are crazy high end bullet timers who cut tank shells in half. The second tiers can fight a losing battle against the above. The third tiers can fight losing battles with the second, and use their alchemy to even the fight. Ed is in that third tier, where people can aim dodge like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZB0lCfNawU

And is in fact faster than the dude above by the end of the series. Honestly, he's probably operating around CBPH for speed and skill, but he has less explicit non-fight stuff like Bucky cutting arrows out of the air.

Len Ikari145
04-22-2016, 11:25 PM
Which was never adequately explained. Dude doesn't know how to use his one power or something?



Personally, I think it has to do with two factors:

One: Greed never liked to fully armor himself due to aesthetics and arrogance.

Two: Greedling, unlike the original, was a human/homunculus hybrid like Wrath and the second (successful) attempt. As we've seen with the dozen attempts to make Fuhrer King Bradey, infusing a human with a philosopher stone to create a homunculus hybrid has a 99% death rate. And unlike Bradley, he has a stone that's full of souls instead of being reduced to just one. The likely reason why Greedling never used his full power up until he got to Central was probably he was working with a human body rather than a artificial one, which may have been taxing on Ling. Hell, we see him breathing hard at the end of his rampage.

The Drunkard Kid
04-22-2016, 11:33 PM
.....

This contradicts. :(

Arguably, it doesn't, unless the density comes with additional mass. Technically, Greed alters his body by manipulating the carbon it already possesses, IIRC, which should mean his weight stays the same, though he should probably be somewhat smaller. Maybe his inhuman biology just has a large amount of carbon in it to begin with, so his weight is always much bigger than his size would suggest, line how Envy is explicitly ridiculously heavy because he's actually a large dragon-thing shape shifted into a scrawny-looking bundle of androgynous asshattery.

Sharpandpointies
04-23-2016, 03:22 AM
Arguably, it doesn't, unless the density comes with additional mass. Technically, Greed alters his body by manipulating the carbon it already possesses, IIRC, which should mean his weight stays the same, though he should probably be somewhat smaller.

As noted in a later post, sure, if he got smaller it would make sense.

Without his actual volume or mass changing somehow, though, he cannot be 'increasing his density'. Density is directly proportional to mass and inversely proportional to volume - change density, and there must be a change of one of those two things.

Now, if he's changing how his molecules hold together to make himself more durable (hardness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness)), that might not change his mass at all, but that's a completely different thing than changing his density.


.... Maybe his inhuman biology just has a large amount of carbon in it to begin with, so his weight is always much bigger than his size would suggest...

Then he's not changing his density. If his mass remains the same, his overall density isn't altering.

If he draws more molecules/atoms in to make himself more dense, that's a different matter. But just altering his hardness (haha, yes, obvious joke is obvious, but that's an actual term as noted above) without adding mass to his body while keeping the same volume isn't going to change his overall density.

DanArt
04-23-2016, 04:20 AM
Full-metal Alchemist would easily topple the winter soldier in any instance because of there ability to morph material at will. Without the gear in Winter Solider they would be completely defenseless. Only bonus would be the speed or being put into a situation similar to mad cannibal chef.


I guess the question of the day is; which version of Edward is this? Brotherhood, or the Anime version?

Why you gotta break my heart like that The original animation is the animated version of the comic. The BH is the "REMAKE" meant to get people to buy it all over again and accept the "Wide Screen/Kings View" display during the transition from regular to widescreen. They did the same junk to DBZ/Zelda and now every freshman calls the original old and unwatchable ( yet they do not own a display big enough to see any difference.

master of read
04-23-2016, 04:53 AM
Full-metal Alchemist would easily topple the winter soldier in any instance because of there ability to morph material at will. Without the gear in Winter Solider they would be completely defenseless. Only bonus would be the speed or being put into a situation similar to mad cannibal chef.



Why you gotta break my heart like that The original animation is the animated version of the comic. The BH is the "REMAKE" meant to get people to buy it all over again and accept the "Wide Screen/Kings View" display during the transition from regular to widescreen. They did the same junk to DBZ/Zelda and now every freshman calls the original old and unwatchable ( yet they do not own a display big enough to see any difference.

first off, OP says no alchemy for ed. just HTH with only his automail turned into his usual blade for fighting.

second, "brotherhood" is the proper adaption of the manga with the first anime being it's own thing because at the time of the first anime, the manga hadn't finished. because of that, the anime took a lot of liberties with the story so you can't say it's a remake when it's just doing what the first anime couldn't do at the time.

DanArt
04-23-2016, 05:29 AM
Everything done in FMA is pure Alchemy. That is how they live there lives. You want to compare metals and technologies you can not.

The BH is not proper. It is a remake that wasted money on what could have been new episodes. FMA could have been like Dragon Ball series and created an entirely new era of animation that was fun and appealing. But no we had to go through with this REMAKE just to port it to Widescreen. I really doubt it would have been like or got the attention the original animation was.

The BH feels too grim and too boring to even watch, and lacks the spirit of the comic itself. It is a remake and slap in the face of everybody that supported the series and so forth.

Part of the reason why I stopped buying new things.

master of read
04-23-2016, 05:41 AM
Everything done in FMA is pure Alchemy. That is how they live there lives. You want to compare metals and technologies you can not.

The BH is not proper. It is a remake that wasted money on what could have been new episodes. FMA could have been like Dragon Ball series and created an entirely new era of animation that was fun and appealing. But no we had to go through with this REMAKE just to port it to Widescreen. I really doubt it would have been like or got the attention the original animation was.

The BH feels too grim and too boring to even watch, and lacks the spirit of the comic itself. It is a remake and slap in the face of everybody that supported the series and so forth.

Part of the reason why I stopped buying new things.

again, the OP made it just HTH. no alchemy for ed, no matter what you say.

and BH is NOT a remake. like one piece, naruto, bleach, and a lot of other anime, BH is a adaptation of the original manga which wasn't finished by the time of the first anime. because of this, the anime didn't have all the source material of the manga and thus had to create it's own story with what they got. BH is pretty faithful to the manga since it includes all the things that manga had: the introduction of xing, alkahestry, and ling and his crew, oliver armstrong and brigs, father, and a few other characters.

so how can BH be a remake of a anime that wasn't a faithful adaptation of the original manga?

The Drunkard Kid
04-23-2016, 06:30 AM
As noted in a later post, sure, if he got smaller it would make sense.

Without his actual volume or mass changing somehow, though, he cannot be 'increasing his density'. Density is directly proportional to mass and inversely proportional to volume - change density, and there must be a change of one of those two things.

Now, if he's changing how his molecules hold together to make himself more durable (hardness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness)), that might not change his mass at all, but that's a completely different thing than changing his density.



Then he's not changing his density. If his mass remains the same, his overall density isn't altering.

If he draws more molecules/atoms in to make himself more dense, that's a different matter. But just altering his hardness (haha, yes, obvious joke is obvious, but that's an actual term as noted above) without adding mass to his body while keeping the same volume isn't going to change his overall density.

I meant altering the density of his skin by drawing on some sort of hypothetical "carbon reserves" he keeps within his body, ala how Envy does with his giant dragon form's mass with his shape shifting, so his mass and volume remain the same on a macro level, but his skin can alter composition and density significantly.

Actually, now that I think of it, the answer could be as simple as the fact that all the homonculi are basically piles of Philosopher's Stones, whose primary function is to use the accumulated souls within them to tell the laws of Alchemy (including Equivalent Exchange) to bugger off.

Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh
04-23-2016, 06:40 AM
See Sharp. It's not supposed to make sense ^_^

The Drunkard Kid
04-23-2016, 06:42 AM
Everything done in FMA is pure Alchemy. That is how they live there lives. You want to compare metals and technologies you can not.

The BH is not proper. It is a remake that wasted money on what could have been new episodes. FMA could have been like Dragon Ball series and created an entirely new era of animation that was fun and appealing. But no we had to go through with this REMAKE just to port it to Widescreen. I really doubt it would have been like or got the attention the original animation was.

The BH feels too grim and too boring to even watch, and lacks the spirit of the comic itself. It is a remake and slap in the face of everybody that supported the series and so forth.

Part of the reason why I stopped buying new things.

As Master of Read pointed out, Brotherhood is a proper adaptation of the original manga, while the first anime series outpaced the manga and decided (with the author's blessings) to go in an original direction rather than use massive piles of filler to pad it, ala DBZ.

Also, there are tons of people in the original anime series who can't use Alchemy, though I guess that Automail use implies some sort of overall alchemical process since he can't use them when he got dimension dumped into Nazi Germany. Speaking of which, there is an entire universe where Alchemy doesn't work without some extenuating circumstances, which Ed was trapped in at the end of the series and the movie. And of course, Ed is not having his Alchemy removed altogether, just being disallowed from using Alchemy to fight except to turn his hand into a blade (and turn it back again, presumably, if it would be convenient in the fight). You know, just like he and his brother were trained to fight, since they weren't able to use circle-less transmutation until fairly recently?

Also, Brotherhood is somehow grimmer than the original anime series? I actually like the original series a bit better than the manga/Brotherhood because it was less traditional shounen and more borderline seinen. I think you're forgetting which one has all Alchemy be powered by the souls of people dying in another universe, had Ed and Al end up being stuck in that universe at the end of the series, has Scar die turning Alphonse into a Philosopher's Stone made by sacrificing a city full of soldiers, at least one of whom probably raped a character who the brothers had helped at the start of the series to the point that she was rendered mute from trauma, and so on, and so forth.

Len Ikari145
04-23-2016, 07:33 AM
again, the OP made it just HTH. no alchemy for ed, no matter what you say.

and BH is NOT a remake. like one piece, naruto, bleach, and a lot of other anime, BH is a adaptation of the original manga which wasn't finished by the time of the first anime. because of this, the anime didn't have all the source material of the manga and thus had to create it's own story with what they got. BH is pretty faithful to the manga since it includes all the things that manga had: the introduction of xing, alkahestry, and ling and his crew, oliver armstrong and brigs, father, and a few other characters.

so how can BH be a remake of a anime that wasn't a faithful adaptation of the original manga?

Dude, just don't try, man. He always misinterprets information and telling him otherwise never works.

But I'll also chime in about one thing: BH being too grim? Seriously? The grim one was the first anime because Ed and Al never had any control over their situation, many people were killed senselessly, and in the end, they end up trapped in Nazi Germany and separated from their loved ones forever. Hell, Rose was fucking GANG-RAPED in the first anime and was left so traumatized that she was rendered mute. This also tells me that you never actually watched or read Brotherhood.

EDIT: DK, you definitely made the stronger argument.

master of read
04-23-2016, 07:57 AM
Dude, just don't try, man. He always misinterprets information and telling him otherwise never works.

But I'll also chime in about one thing: BH being too grim? Seriously? The grim one was the first anime because Ed and Al never had any control over their situation, many people were killed senselessly, and in the end, they end up trapped in Nazi Germany and separated from their loved ones forever. Hell, Rose was fucking GANG-RAPED in the first anime and was left so traumatized that she was rendered mute. This also tells me that you never actually watched or read Brotherhood.

EDIT: DK, you definitely made the stronger argument.

ditto. 03 scar was just so..........dumb. not stupid but just dumb as a character since there was really no depth to him. BH scar was so deep and had such impressive development. honestly, the 03 anime and BH are really only similar after the first 12 eps or so. after that, they go in different directions and it shows. i dont blame the original anime's faults on it so much as it just was made too early to fully grasp everything about the manga since it wasn't finished at the time.

The Drunkard Kid
04-23-2016, 08:25 AM
ditto. 03 scar was just so..........dumb. not stupid but just dumb as a character since there was really no depth to him. BH scar was so deep and had such impressive development. honestly, the 03 anime and BH are really only similar after the first 12 eps or so. after that, they go in different directions and it shows. i dont blame the original anime's faults on it so much as it just was made too early to fully grasp everything about the manga since it wasn't finished at the time.

Eh, personally (and my memories are a bit vague on the matter since I haven't seen the series in around 10 years) I felt that the arc for '03 Scar wasn't so much character development as it was character regression to back before he was completely overwhelmed with despair and hatred over the loss of his people which he blamed on his brother, influenced by witnessing the love between the Elric brothers.

master of read
04-23-2016, 08:28 AM
Eh, personally (and my memories are a bit vague on the matter since I haven't seen the series in around 10 years) I felt that the arc for '03 Scar wasn't so much character development as it was character regression to back before he was completely overwhelmed with despair and hatred over the loss of his people which he blamed on his brother, influenced by witnessing the love between the Elric brothers.

hadn't thought of it like that but still doesn't make me dislike him any less.

Captain Morgan
04-23-2016, 08:52 AM
I actually thought Scar was a much more interesting character in 03. But I also thought Brotherhood suffered from a bloated cast, and characters like May and Yoki attaching themselves to Scar watered him down significantly. I still love Brotherhood, but 03 just felt tighter in its character focus and themes so I prefer it.

That said, Brotherhood gave us Greedling, so it's cool in my book.

Lord Falcon
04-23-2016, 08:01 PM
Which was never adequately explained. Dude doesn't know how to use his one power or something?

More that Greedling wasn't capable of accessing his full power at that point due to being a newborn. Greedling extending his shield to protect his neck was a clutch move against Wrath.




Eh... I don't recall this ever being stated, nor did their performance really suggest it. Their powers (as opposed to their regen) were pretty much demonstrated to be self-sustaining closed circuits. Greed and Envy didn't create new matter, but merely rearranged their existing atoms. Wrath was a badass despite only having one soul in his stone. Pride still wrecked just as hard after being beaten to hell by Heinkel the lion man, and didn't mention being restored from eating Gluttony, despite being prone to bragging and otherwise giving a pretty in depth analysis of how consuming his brother affected him.

They didn't create new matter, but they did require energy to change at different scales. Envy's transformation ability deteriorated the more he used up his energy regenerating from getting burned. Lust ran out of energy to extend herself an inch before she reached Mustang due to getting burned. Pride used up a tremendous amount of energy forcing Roy to perform human transmutation, and as a consequence his shadow powers were significantly reduced in his fight against Ed later.