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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Could the sex pirates have worked for you?

    For me it's a gray area. I feel if the amazons didn't get the sailors drunk and killed them maybe. I also would have to question what about their sons. I would have liked the idea of male amazons on the island but Amazon angry about this secretly were killing them . So the amazons stopped this official but secretly some continue this
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  2. #2
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    How did they have children in the Marston era?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkseid Is View Post
    How did they have children in the Marston era?
    They created them using super science

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    The sex raids could have absolutely worked for me.

    I actually like the idea that the Amazons go out every so often to seek out men with which to mate. If that's where it ended, I would've been fine with such a change to the Wonder Woman mythos.

    But the problem is that Azz just had to add the fact that the Amazons killed their mates after "doing the deed." That is taking things too far. It irreversibly changes the Amazons into monsters and defiles the compassionate roots of Diana's origins.

    This is an even more egregious offense because it's obvious that Azz intended to do exactly that. His choice to remove the Amazons' magical and scientific capabilities was a deliberate effort to make it seem that the Amazons had no other choice but to kill their mates in order to maintain their secrecy. If the Amazons still had their advanced technology, you'd think they could come up with some kind of high-tech memory eraser thing to keep the men from remembering them. If they had magic, then they could use spells or potions to do the same thing.

    Having the Amazons maintain some contact with the outside world is good. Having the Amazons have meaningful contacts with mortal men is conducive to interesting stories. Having the Amazons be cold-blooded murderers who kill men just because they're men is changing them far too far.
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  5. #5
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If the men weren't killed I'd have had zero problem with it. I still wouldn't have liked how otherwise hostile they might have been toward men in regards to attitude, but that's at least negotiable to some level. It would have been easier to work with them just being mean to men as opposed to killing them.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  6. #6
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    It worked for me as it was presented since:
    -It dealt with the real problem a single sex society would otherwise face: a dwindling population
    -It dealt with the hazard the Amazons would face when their row boats couldn't outrun the other ship
    -And ofc it dealt with the question of why there weren't any men on the island

    It could ofc have been done differently, but it works just fine as it is for me.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    I really like the idea of Marston's Amazon's being the ideal race of people and turning mythology on it's head. But I also like the idea of Wonder Woman existing in a classic mythology world and becoming better than them. It always felt to me like Wonder Woman was just another Amazon. Almost like any of them could fill her shoes.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Korath's Avatar
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    Well, it worked for me for two reasons :
    -The Amazons as presented wished to expand/preserve their population, and their Island seemed far more dangerous and themselves more proactive in their duties to hunt monsters than usually depicted
    -The Amazons have always been somewhat of a warrior culture in D.C. Comics. And contrary to the usual trope that a warrior culture can be tempered by wisdom, patience, love and all that, I've never ascribed to it, because I've never found one example of warrior culture in history where said warriors weren't extremely cruel (takes the knights and samurai and wash them of the romantic vibe and they were hardly paragon of nobility and more cruel warriors). So the Amazons doing so works for me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Well, it worked for me for two reasons :
    -The Amazons as presented wished to expand/preserve their population, and their Island seemed far more dangerous and themselves more proactive in their duties to hunt monsters than usually depicted
    -The Amazons have always been somewhat of a warrior culture in D.C. Comics. And contrary to the usual trope that a warrior culture can be tempered by wisdom, patience, love and all that, I've never ascribed to it, because I've never found one example of warrior culture in history where said warriors weren't extremely cruel (takes the knights and samurai and wash them of the romantic vibe and they were hardly paragon of nobility and more cruel warriors). So the Amazons doing so works for me.
    "Somewhat" being the key word here. They weren't just a warrior culture. There is also no indication Azzarello's Amazons were hinting monsters

  10. #10
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    It did work for me.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  11. #11
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    When I saw this threat title I though for sure it was SPAM. LOL.

    And no, they could not. I agree with Vanguard below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    The sex raids could have absolutely worked for me.

    I actually like the idea that the Amazons go out every so often to seek out men with which to mate. If that's where it ended, I would've been fine with such a change to the Wonder Woman mythos.

    But the problem is that Azz just had to add the fact that the Amazons killed their mates after "doing the deed." That is taking things too far. It irreversibly changes the Amazons into monsters and defiles the compassionate roots of Diana's origins.

    This is an even more egregious offense because it's obvious that Azz intended to do exactly that. His choice to remove the Amazons' magical and scientific capabilities was a deliberate effort to make it seem that the Amazons had no other choice but to kill their mates in order to maintain their secrecy. If the Amazons still had their advanced technology, you'd think they could come up with some kind of high-tech memory eraser thing to keep the men from remembering them. If they had magic, then they could use spells or potions to do the same thing.

    Having the Amazons maintain some contact with the outside world is good. Having the Amazons have meaningful contacts with mortal men is conducive to interesting stories. Having the Amazons be cold-blooded murderers who kill men just because they're men is changing them far too far.


    Seriously, if you do the math and they launched their raids every thirty years or so, that's about 100 raids over the course of 3000 years.

    Assuming they found ships that even had as few as 50 crew aboard, that's 5000 men slaughtered out of convenience. And not even because they stumble across the island - no, the Amazons went out looking for these guys with an intention to murder them. And this practice was happening even up into the modern era.

    So, no.
    Last edited by brettc1; 08-31-2017 at 01:03 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They created them using super science
    Huh? I thought in the Marston era, any Amazon could create a child from clay (or a marble statue) with the aid of the Goddesses (i. e. magic).

    Regarding the original question: I first asked myself why they would need to procreate at all (being immortal); but accidents do happen, and it seems that combat training is quite tough on the island... and let's not talk about the frequent civil wars (OK, that was before Azzarello actually). I would have preferred if the Amazons simply wiped the minds of the men they had used - maybe with a kind of modified Purple Ray device (similar to the 'Men In Black' neuralyzer thingie). But in Azz's world, the Amazons didn't have the Purple Ray.

    The real issue here is the need to keep the existence of the Amazons secret. In the Greek legends, the Amazons go out once a year to have sex with men from neighboring tribes (as they are not immortal, they need to procreate more frequently). Because the existence of the Amazons was common knowledge in those myths, they did not need to kill their partners. Given that Azz's Amazons were depicted as living in a Bronze Age/Iron Age society without technology, they didn't have many options to keep their existence a secret, besides killing. So it has some kind of logic.

    But I agree with Vanguard-01 that this goes totally against the original intentions of the Amazons being peaceful and morally superior.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Never. It was a gross perversion of Marston's intentions for his Amazons.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Seriously, if you do the math and they launched their raids every thirty years or so, that's about 100 raids over the course of 3000 years.

    Assuming they found ships that even had as few as 50 crew aboard, that's 5000 men slaughtered out of convenience. And not even because they stumble across the island - no, the Amazons went out looking for these guys with an intention to murder them. And this practice was happening even up into the modern era.

    So, no.
    Bold: Think they would actually avoid anything that big to be honest. Also, it would be unlikely they would even find something that big after people stopped using oars as a means of propulsion. Like the Santa Maria that Columbus sailed to the Americas in had a 'compliment' of 40 people. And since we are likely talking about them going after merchant vessles rather than warships, due it being safer and easier, the crew is likely even smaller than this since thats how its always been, even today a ship like those huge container freighters only need 10-15 to crew it.

  15. #15
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Not in a million years, for me.

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