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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I don't really care about delays, myself. I'd much rather have a good quality book, that comes out late, than a book of lesser quality- on time. I can go without a comic book for a while, especially since sometimes creators need space to think/rethink their work. I value quality over quantity.

    The only downside is sometimes I forget after a while. I am not really into "pull lists" since I go to a couple different shops regularly (and Midtown usually has anything if I really can't find it elsewhere). Though, to make sure lesser known books are still being ordered, I may pull a few things from time to time.

    Image is still "where it's at", I just haven't been really invested in anything they've put out lately. Hopefully soon! DC also has YOUNG ANIMAL going right now, and that's where so much of my attention is.
    *fades in from the shadows*

    Get invested in Maxwell's Demons, from Vault Comics! OUt soon!

    Preview here: http://io9.gizmodo.com/in-maxwells-d...dar-1809618253

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    Deniz Camp
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    Order my new comic, MAXWELL'S DEMONS, from Vault Comics! Out Oct. 11!

  2. #47
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    (I realize this is off topic shilling, but think it's a book many here are going to dig, and also I know Flash kinda )
    Deniz Camp
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    Twitter: @mdesaad
    Order my new comic, MAXWELL'S DEMONS, from Vault Comics! Out Oct. 11!

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Flux View Post
    Its your hypothosis. Burden of proof lies on you.
    Burden of proof?

    This isn't a court of law. It's a comic book forum people come to for entertaining discussions about their favorite funny books.

    The obvious is right there: people don't like delays. Image is known for delays. Therefore, the enthusiasm has waned.
    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Here's the thing...

    The question is only tough if you are going on the assumption that the plan the company had was "Each and every title the company puts out will be on a two year/one issue each month of those two years..." publishing schedule.

    The whole point is that the standard schedule I mentioned isn't something this company has to stick to.
    It doesn't matter if it was announced or not. A delay is a delay. And the vast majority of people do not like delays. Look at the European comic industry, which puts out nothing but delayed comics. Do you think from a profit standpoint the Euro comic book industry is anything to aspire to for the American and Japanese comic industries? Of course not. That's why Marvel and DC are number one. Not because of the quality of the stories but because people can trust their books are gonna come out on schedule. Same thing with the Japanese manga industry: whatever you say about the quality of mangas is your opinion. The fact is the Japanese readers expect to receive their comics on a set schedule and most of the time their expectations are fulfilled.

    I don't know how anybody can argue that the vast majority of people don't like delays, whether announced or not.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    Where in the forum rules do I have to cite sources for my claims?

    Is it really hard for you to believe the reason why people are less enthusiastic about Image than ever before is because they are jaded over the fact that the majority of series will be canceled or delayed?
    Well if you state factually incorrect things people will call you out on those, you can't be surprised.

    Some books that show how what you said was completely hyperbolic and false:

    Fatale, Saga, East of West, Lazarus, Kill or be killed, I Hate Fairyland, Deadly Class, Black Science, Monstress, Low, Seven to Eternity, Outcast, Descender, Wicked + Divine, Snotgirl, Black Magic, Birthright, Divided States of Histerya, Redneck, Wayward, Paper Girls, God Country, Manifest Destiny, Elephant Men, Invincible.

    Some books that are famous for their delays are Bitch Planet, Sex Criminals and Injection. But they are all still going after two years.

    Now it would be nice for you to show at least as much books that fit your description of «more than 95% chance the book will be delayed or abruptly cancelled without warning; there's a 4% chance the book will be cancelled or delayed with warning; and 1% chance it'll make it past 2 years» or to simply admit you were being completely and needlessly hyperbolic and false.
    Last edited by SignorMiracolo; 10-13-2017 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    JFP is a troll with an axe to grind against Image Comics. It's best to ignore him. This will go on for pages and pages and you will get no answers from him, just more hyperbole. We've done this before with him and it goes absolutely nowhere. Just ignore him.

    Case in point: He's saying a planned skip month is a delay. It's not. The book isn't late. But he will not bend on this.

    Seriously, just ignore him. It's not worth anyone's time.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member Dark-Flux's Avatar
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    I dont think he's a troll. I think he's genuinely an idiot.
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  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    He only shows up to talk shit about Image Comics, so, to me that's a troll. He might be both, though.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    Burden of proof?

    This isn't a court of law. It's a comic book forum people come to for entertaining discussions about their favorite funny books.

    The obvious is right there: people don't like delays. Image is known for delays. Therefore, the enthusiasm has waned.


    It doesn't matter if it was announced or not. A delay is a delay. And the vast majority of people do not like delays. Look at the European comic industry, which puts out nothing but delayed comics. Do you think from a profit standpoint the Euro comic book industry is anything to aspire to for the American and Japanese comic industries? Of course not. That's why Marvel and DC are number one. Not because of the quality of the stories but because people can trust their books are gonna come out on schedule. Same thing with the Japanese manga industry: whatever you say about the quality of mangas is your opinion. The fact is the Japanese readers expect to receive their comics on a set schedule and most of the time their expectations are fulfilled.

    I don't know how anybody can argue that the vast majority of people don't like delays, whether announced or not.
    I don't know, in the European market a new Asterix volume is coming out next month and preorders are for over 5 million copies. It's been about 2 years since the last volume, which had preorders of over 5 million and ended up selling over 8 million copies in its first year available. I somehow think those are numbers the American industry could find something to aspire to there. But then the audience for Eurobooks aren't spoiled Wednesday Warriors who sacrifice quality to get a regular hit of 20 pages of story by anyone who is available to churn them out that month and who don't understand the difference between ongoing and monthly. Not all books are monthly, comics have mostly been of frequency other than monthly until the direct market took over and newsstands disappeared and the customer base has dwindled ever since without any source of new readers coming into it so American publishers aspire to sales of over 50K to be successful not the millions that sell in other markets who don't cling to the 20th century model of publishing in the 21st century. But people can continue to believe what they want to believe and live in their own reality tunnels when it comes to comics if they want to, fo as long as those dwindling monthly sales are viable at least.

    -M
    Comic fans get the comics their buying habits deserve.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Here is my only counter when talking about Image and having late comics and that is what is causing the luster. Image has been known since the company's inception about having late books.

    I simply want to make sure I understand the argument. Are we saying the lateness of the many years is what is tiring out fans and making them be less interested, or are we thinking late comics for Image is a new thing?

    Personally, I think lateness of a comic might be a factor in losing interest, but I do not think it is the main reason.
    “A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.”
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  10. #55
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    The obvious is right there: people don't like delays. Image is known for delays. Therefore, the enthusiasm has waned.
    This "Sorta" assertion is so goofy, I'm not even sure where to start.

    Let's try something...

    Tell me the exact date the next issue of the Marvel Comics' Hickman penned SHIELD series will be released.

  11. #56
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    That's why Marvel and DC are number one. Not because of the quality of the stories but because people can trust their books are gonna come out on schedule.
    Again, we're talking about an assertion that's so goofy that it's hard to know where to start.

    Are you really saying that books coming out on schedule trumps having IP that most companies would kill for and the two imprints having been folded into larger companies?
    Last edited by numberthirty; 10-14-2017 at 01:38 AM.

  12. #57
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JFP View Post
    It doesn't matter if it was announced or not. A delay is a delay. And the vast majority of people do not like delays. Look at the European comic industry, which puts out nothing but delayed comics. Do you think from a profit standpoint the Euro comic book industry is anything to aspire to for the American and Japanese comic industries?
    Let's go ahead, and go over this in detail.

    The main issue seems to be that you only seem to be capable in seeing this in "From A Profit Standpoint..." terms. One of the main strengths of Image as an imprint is that a creator can choose to let profit(in the short term) take a back seat to other concerns. That is a plus. Not a minus.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Well if you state factually incorrect things people will call you out on those, you can't be surprised.

    Some books that show how what you said was completely hyperbolic and false:

    Fatale, Saga, East of West, Lazarus, Kill or be killed, I Hate Fairyland, Deadly Class, Black Science, Monstress, Low, Seven to Eternity, Outcast, Descender, Wicked + Divine, Snotgirl, Black Magic, Birthright, Divided States of Histerya, Redneck, Wayward, Paper Girls, God Country, Manifest Destiny, Elephant Men, Invincible.

    Some books that are famous for their delays are Bitch Planet, Sex Criminals and Injection. But they are all still going after two years.

    Now it would be nice for you to show at least as much books that fit your description of «more than 95% chance the book will be delayed or abruptly cancelled without warning; there's a 4% chance the book will be cancelled or delayed with warning; and 1% chance it'll make it past 2 years» or to simply admit you were being completely and needlessly hyperbolic and false.
    You have to understand that in it's more than 20 years of existence, Image has more books cancelled than ongoing. Of the books you listed that I highlighted in bold, how many have been running for more than 5 years? Why does a company that has been around since 1992, with hundreds of titles published, have a difficult time showing any books that have been around for at least 5 years without any delays whatsoever?

    Quote Originally Posted by MRP View Post
    I don't know, in the European market a new Asterix volume is coming out next month and preorders are for over 5 million copies. It's been about 2 years since the last volume, which had preorders of over 5 million and ended up selling over 8 million copies in its first year available. I somehow think those are numbers the American industry could find something to aspire to there. But then the audience for Eurobooks aren't spoiled Wednesday Warriors who sacrifice quality to get a regular hit of 20 pages of story by anyone who is available to churn them out that month and who don't understand the difference between ongoing and monthly. Not all books are monthly, comics have mostly been of frequency other than monthly until the direct market took over and newsstands disappeared and the customer base has dwindled ever since without any source of new readers coming into it so American publishers aspire to sales of over 50K to be successful not the millions that sell in other markets who don't cling to the 20th century model of publishing in the 21st century. But people can continue to believe what they want to believe and live in their own reality tunnels when it comes to comics if they want to, fo as long as those dwindling monthly sales are viable at least.

    -M
    The thing that makes the Euro market so poor is that the books that actually make it to the millions are titles that have been around since our grandparents were kids. Books like Tintin and Asterix (comics that have been around since our grandparents were young) are the only Euro comics that sell. If a Euro artist wants to put out something new, he's worse off than his American or Japanese counterpart. The European comic book market isn't impressive when you consider the only comics that have impact are kids comics for when our granddads were young. At least that 50k the American artist can expect to see is attainable where the new Euro artist can't even expect 5k.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordMikel View Post
    Here is my only counter when talking about Image and having late comics and that is what is causing the luster. Image has been known since the company's inception about having late books.

    I simply want to make sure I understand the argument. Are we saying the lateness of the many years is what is tiring out fans and making them be less interested, or are we thinking late comics for Image is a new thing?

    Personally, I think lateness of a comic might be a factor in losing interest, but I do not think it is the main reason.
    Lateness over the years is tiring out fans and making them less interested.
    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    This "Sorta" assertion is so goofy, I'm not even sure where to start.

    Let's try something...

    Tell me the exact date the next issue of the Marvel Comics' Hickman penned SHIELD series will be released.
    I don't read that comic so I can't answer that.
    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Again, we're talking about an assertion that's so goofy that it's hard to know where to start.

    Are you really saying that books coming out on schedule trumps having IP that most companies would kill for and the two imprints having been folded into larger companies?
    What does IP stand for?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Let's go ahead, and go over this in detail.

    The main issue seems to be that you only seem to be capable in seeing this in "From A Profit Standpoint..." terms. One of the main strengths of Image as an imprint is that a creator can choose to let profit(in the short term) take a back seat to other concerns. That is a plus. Not a minus.
    Have you talked to your local comic book retailer lately? Is there a comic book store owner on the planet who would say comic creators letting profit take a back seat is a plus or a minus?

    It's not only the fans who are losing enthusiasm; it's also comic store owners. I have around 10 comic book stores within a 30 minute drive of my home. Over the years, they've been increasing their Big 2 products and significantly decreasing their Image and other indies. Their profits have increased and they are much more full. So I don't see them returning to the time when they were stocked full of comics from creators who let profits take a back seat for other concerns.

    Honestly, if comic book stores stocked little or no Image titles, would they lose significant profit?

    Image is a business. We can only look at things that happen with them from a business viewpoint because none of the creators would put out a comic book for free.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SignorMiracolo View Post
    Well if you state factually incorrect things people will call you out on those, you can't be surprised.

    Some books that show how what you said was completely hyperbolic and false:

    Fatale, Saga, East of West, Lazarus, Kill or be killed, I Hate Fairyland, Deadly Class, Black Science, Monstress, Low, Seven to Eternity, Outcast, Descender, Wicked + Divine, Snotgirl, Black Magic, Birthright, Divided States of Histerya, Redneck, Wayward, Paper Girls, God Country, Manifest Destiny, Elephant Men, Invincible.

    Some books that are famous for their delays are Bitch Planet, Sex Criminals and Injection. But they are all still going after two years.

    Now it would be nice for you to show at least as much books that fit your description of «more than 95% chance the book will be delayed or abruptly cancelled without warning; there's a 4% chance the book will be cancelled or delayed with warning; and 1% chance it'll make it past 2 years» or to simply admit you were being completely and needlessly hyperbolic and false.
    I've preordered East of West, Monstress, Kill Or Be Killed and Saga and they've all had delayed issues (1-3 months). Lazarus is still on hiatus. Black Magick just came out of a long hiatus.
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