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  1. #1
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    Default Are female action heroes written badly by male writers?

    This recent article had me thinking about how female action heroes are portrayed in film and television:
    http://screenrant.com/thor-3-tessa-t...-male-writers/

    I don't know that I necessarily agree with her thoughts. I actually think that they are being less sexualized than they were a decade ago. But, that is just me. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuinnFillory View Post
    This recent article had me thinking about how female action heroes are portrayed in film and television:
    http://screenrant.com/thor-3-tessa-t...-male-writers/

    I don't know that I necessarily agree with her thoughts. I actually think that they are being less sexualized than they were a decade ago. But, that is just me. Thoughts?
    The men in CBM are being equally sexualized. Thor and Cap are used to drive house moms into a tizzy. Women still get the rough end of the stick but less the in thr past. And theres a difference between being sexy and beatiful and sexulizing a charatcer. Wonder woman was dressed like a hoe same as Black Widow to a lesser degree. But they dont do michale bays shots of theyre cleavage or ass. It still happens but its not as prominent imo

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    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    My general rule of thumb with heroines in any kind of fiction, but especially comic book related, is that there's nothing wrong with them being attractive and beautiful, as long as it's not what defines them. Gal's Wonder Woman fits that just fine.

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    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    My general rule of thumb with heroines in any kind of fiction, but especially comic book related, is that there's nothing wrong with them being attractive and beautiful, as long as it's not what defines them. Gal's Wonder Woman fits that just fine.
    While she is dressed overly sexy they dont focus on it. Not shots of her bent over anything. Blackwidow has some nicr cleavage but they never make it the focus.

    But they do have the Thor and Cap scenes where they clearly objectify theyre bodys. And thats fine men dont have a history of being used objectified and reduced to nothing more then eye candy. Given its long history its one of those double standards i dont mind. Same as race swapping i dont mind the double standard because its just balancing the scale
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 09-03-2017 at 10:10 AM.

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    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    The men in CBM are being equally sexualized. Thor and Cap are used to drive house moms into a tizzy. Women still get the rough end of the stick but less the in thr past. And theres a difference between being sexy and beatiful and sexulizing a charatcer. Wonder woman was dressed like a hoe same as Black Widow to a lesser degree. But they dont do michale bays shots of theyre cleavage or ass. It still happens but its not as prominent imo
    Which is true, but not really what the article is about.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  6. #6
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    Yeah, sure, some are, just like some male ones are. Surprise, so writers aren't very good.

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    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuinnFillory View Post
    This recent article had me thinking about how female action heroes are portrayed in film and television:
    http://screenrant.com/thor-3-tessa-t...-male-writers/

    I don't know that I necessarily agree with her thoughts. I actually think that they are being less sexualized than they were a decade ago. But, that is just me. Thoughts?
    Even if women are less sexualized than they were a decade ago, it doesn't mean they're still not overly sexualized now for the male viewer. That new Batman/Harley Quinn movie is a recent example of how, even if things progress to the point of women characters being more proactive and taking center stage, they'll still be sexualized terribly (if only Dini had written it, and not Timm).

    Plus, speaking as a guy, we still see a lot of pushback from guys online when they get called out on sexism, even when they attack based on sex. But underlying that too is the idea that women have to reach a level of masculinity in order to be considered a "good" action hero.

    Of course, that's not to say that men can't write good female action heroes; as the article points out, Wonder Woman is held up as a new standard. But there's also a big shortage of female heroes out there anyway -- any examples that we can cite, i.e. Sarah Connor, Lara Croft, Black Widow, Wonder Woman, etc -- always come to mind because there are so few of them, otherwise the go-to list would have much more variety.

    On a tangent, and I don't know why I thought of this, but I feel like the US Office handled women well. Each and every one of them -- even the suppporting cast -- was professionally, socially, and sexually active without objectifying them, they all showed agency in some form or another, they all had their own priorities, they tended to take charge when the situation calls for it. When men tried to control them, they pretty much fought back (except for Meredith, but that's cuz she's a mess. A hilarious mess, but a mess nonethless). Now, the vast majority of those episodes were written and directed by men, but women on the writing staff (notably Mindy Kaling) helped immensely. Applying those simple things to the big screen for women action heroes could be easily done, especially given how, these days, superhero movies tend to be part-deconstruction of superheroes in general.
    Last edited by Cyke; 09-03-2017 at 12:42 PM.
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  8. #8
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Yet a complaint I see often from the YouTube knuckleheads is that TV Supergirl isn't sexy enough.

  9. #9

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    I'm reading her comments and I have to say some of it I disagree and others I don't. To start out with the "unfair position of being strong and fierce but also sexy. I don't know what superhero movies you are watching but 8/10 times the female character is the love interest and little less. However for those few female superheroes I don't think that its unfair or wrong being strong, fierce, beautiful is fine so long as there is more depth to the character. There are two options that I can see either Tessa doesn't understand that badass is a unisex term or she doesn't know the meaning of the word because it was used in the wrong context badass isn't mutually exclusive to being sexy. It means a tough, uncompromising, or intimidating person. Captain America is a badass as is Superman, Wonder Woman and others because they are capable of feats that are extraordinary in strength, unchangeable from start to finish and scare the crap out of people. Better yet Hulk is a badass but pretty sure you wouldn't say he was handsome or sexy. However if what she is trying to say is that female characters shouldn't objectified the woman, 100% on board with that.
    Last edited by VolcanikTiger86; 09-04-2017 at 01:32 AM.
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  10. #10
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    If the fact that the reality of it(Mainstream action films are going to lean heavily on the sort of "Dumb" that lends itself to that word coming into play) really bugs you, maybe just steer clear of those sorts of scripts and parts?

    Because the idea that the bigger picture when it comes to that sort of thing is probably not about to change.

  11. #11
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Of course, that's not to say that men can't write good female action heroes; as the article points out, Wonder Woman is held up as a new standard. But there's also a big shortage of female heroes out there anyway -- any examples that we can cite, i.e. Sarah Connor, Lara Croft, Black Widow, Wonder Woman, etc -- always come to mind because there are so few of them, otherwise the go-to list would have much more variety.
    Even Sarah is right on the line. While she really becomes an action hero in T2, it's not exactly a totally "Straight Up" action film. A lot of it is about Sarah's possible mental illness/John's view of the whole thing/Time travel questions. To me, it makes what would normally be the "Same Old" aspects of action better because they are happening in a film that is not exactly an action film.

    Let alone that she has been dead for a while by the time the third film takes place.

  12. #12
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    In fact, that’s the reason why Thompson says she and Waititi purposefully deviated from the comic book version of Valkyrie to make a more timely version of the character.
    They are ancient aliens.... why would you need to do a "timely" version?

    There’s an unfair position that women are sometimes put in, in the context of superhero movies and action movies where at once they have to be very strong and fierce, but also sexy.
    Thor with his shirt off.

    But we wanted to create a character that occupied her own iconography
    Like she did in the comics?

    There’s one word I hate in all scripts in Hollywood at the moment in describing women, and that is the word ‘badass.’ That word has just crept into every script that is pushed around this town now.
    thats how language works.

  13. #13
    For honor... Madam-Shogun-Assassin's Avatar
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    Ok so this needs a female perspective. There's nothing wrong with a female character being sexualized as long as that's not the only thing that defines her, that's what bugs me as a woman. There's nothing wrong with it being a part of the character though. Men get sexualized all the time in movies and tv shows by writers, directors. I mean do you think all those CW male actors was hired because they could act? lol

    Also in regards to Harley Quinn, if she was a REAL person she would be slut shamed, so people should really shove their righteous indignation.
    Last edited by Madam-Shogun-Assassin; 09-04-2017 at 07:05 PM.

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    Swollen Member GOLGO 13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    While she is dressed overly sexy they dont focus on it. Not shots of her bent over anything. Blackwidow has some nicr cleavage but they never make it the focus.
    I love me some cheesecake, but what I mostly remember about the Widow in the movies were her insanely well done fighting scenes.

  15. #15
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOLGO 13 View Post
    I love me some cheesecake, but what I mostly remember about the Widow in the movies were her insanely well done fighting scenes.
    What I remember is her big scene with Loki.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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