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  1. #1
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    Default Tired of Marvel's direction causing a reader civil war

    I'm tired of the war. I'm tired of the readership being divided and taking these fictional things seriously and personal. I'm tired of, "If you do not support minorities taking this mantle, you are a terrible person and likely phobic of the minority."

    Why not just have ALL Legacy and Classic characters co-exist and EACH have their own book? Don't create an ultimatum of replacing someone and forcing the classic lovers out and enforcing the Legacy ones. I just want this to end. Every Marvel topic regresses into the same old topic of people supporting or hating the direction. The bad part of this civil war is: no one really wins, it's just people arguing in circles.

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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  3. #3

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    Oh for fuck's sake...

    This Week's Comics: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #76, Fence #1, Wicked + Divine #33, Kill the Minotaur #6, Gundam Wing: The Glory of Losers v. 3

  4. #4
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    I think the issue is that the characters have become avatars or proxies for the ongoing (and extremely heated) debate in the real world over who counts as an American and who doesn't, and who gets to define who is or isn't an American. You have lots of people who are becoming or have been part of the comics fandom that honestly just want to be better-represented and portrayed (and more included) in the media that they consume. You also have lots of people in the fandom who have been there for a long time themselves, who are used to things being a certain way that's worked out well enough for them so far, and so they are understandably skittish about upsetting the proverbial apple cart, even if they're told they can reach more people with a new apple cart than with the one they've got now, to extend that particular metaphor. Again, this reflects the debate in real life about the changing face of American society and culture, and the alienation many have come to feel as they believe they are not or no longer included in this changing America, versus the alienation of those striving to finally feel fully included in American society. Marvel has made itself part of that debate, and while clearly taking a side in said debate, it's not so surprising when one recalls that its most iconic heroes were themselves striving for acceptance and inclusion into a society that feared and shunned them for their differences. The end goal, of course, should be coexistence, as the OP suggests, not one subsuming the other or vice versa, and there should be greater attempts to foster understanding instead of fomenting conflict and driving people into opposing camps.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #5

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    Steve Rogers is back and will be the sole Captain America again, with Sam being demoted back to being Falcon. (And hey, I hope all you people who bitched about how they should promote Sam as Falcon plan on picking that up!) Jane's story was always a finite one and I'm sure Bro-Thor will be the sole Thor again at that point. There's indications Tony Stark will likely return pretty soon, with Riri continuing on as Ironheart. Laura as Wolverine already co-exists alongside Old Man Logan, and to be blunt, Old Man Logan and Regular Logan are not actually all that different anyway, and Logan is still frigging everywhere and is in every goddamn X-title. Banner will be back at some point, and in the meantime, Pak is actually telling a very specific story with Amadeus. Clint and Kate have co-existed for years, even if the current Hawkeye series is specifically about Kate. (I'm sure that, when Thompson's run is finished, the series will be re-launched with the pair teamed up again.)

    Marvel is moving back towards the thing people say they should do. Which is the thing that anyone with any sense of pattern recognition knew would happen.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Steve Rogers is back and will be the sole Captain America again, with Sam being demoted back to being Falcon. (And hey, I hope all you people who bitched about how they should promote Sam as Falcon plan on picking that up!) Jane's story was always a finite one and I'm sure Bro-Thor will be the sole Thor again at that point. There's indications Tony Stark will likely return pretty soon, with Riri continuing on as Ironheart. Laura as Wolverine already co-exists alongside Old Man Logan, and to be blunt, Old Man Logan and Regular Logan are not actually all that different anyway, and Logan is still frigging everywhere and is in every goddamn X-title. Banner will be back at some point, and in the meantime, Pak is actually telling a very specific story with Amadeus. Clint and Kate have co-existed for years, even if the current Hawkeye series is specifically about Kate. (I'm sure that, when Thompson's run is finished, the series will be re-launched with the pair teamed up again.)

    Marvel is moving back towards the thing people say they should do. Which is the thing that anyone with any sense of pattern recognition knew would happen.
    Why, its almost as if you have a brain, know how to read and understand how comic books work.
    The Jack is BACK.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Why, its almost as if you have a brain, know how to read and understand how comic books work.
    Sh! You don't want them to get in trouble around here!

  8. #8
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Steve Rogers is back and will be the sole Captain America again, with Sam being demoted back to being Falcon. (And hey, I hope all you people who bitched about how they should promote Sam as Falcon plan on picking that up!) Jane's story was always a finite one and I'm sure Bro-Thor will be the sole Thor again at that point. There's indications Tony Stark will likely return pretty soon, with Riri continuing on as Ironheart. Laura as Wolverine already co-exists alongside Old Man Logan, and to be blunt, Old Man Logan and Regular Logan are not actually all that different anyway, and Logan is still frigging everywhere and is in every goddamn X-title. Banner will be back at some point, and in the meantime, Pak is actually telling a very specific story with Amadeus. Clint and Kate have co-existed for years, even if the current Hawkeye series is specifically about Kate. (I'm sure that, when Thompson's run is finished, the series will be re-launched with the pair teamed up again.)

    Marvel is moving back towards the thing people say they should do. Which is the thing that anyone with any sense of pattern recognition knew would happen.
    Well, anyone with any sense of pattern recognition would knew that the next event is AvX 2 as well.

  9. #9
    BANNED dragonmp93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    Why, its almost as if you have a brain, know how to read and understand how comic books work.
    Well, what that says about the continuity errors on the Marvel books ?.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whiterabbit View Post
    I'm tired of the war. I'm tired of the readership being divided and taking these fictional things seriously and personal. I'm tired of, "If you do not support minorities taking this mantle, you are a terrible person and likely phobic of the minority."

    Why not just have ALL Legacy and Classic characters co-exist and EACH have their own book? Don't create an ultimatum of replacing someone and forcing the classic lovers out and enforcing the Legacy ones. I just want this to end. Every Marvel topic regresses into the same old topic of people supporting or hating the direction. The bad part of this civil war is: no one really wins, it's just people arguing in circles.
    I completely agree with you. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonmp93 View Post
    Well, anyone with any sense of pattern recognition would knew that the next event is AvX 2 as well.
    Technically, AvX was already AvX 2. X-Men vs. Avengers was already a mini in the '80s.

    More seriously, yeah, it's possible they'll do another AvX. Or maybe they'll do AvI, with Avengers vs. Inhumans. The next major event is actually almost certainly going to be Thanos-themed, what with him being the villain of Avengers 3. I wouldn't actually expect another Hero vs. Hero summer event for at least a couple years. No, after a Thanos one in 2018, I'm going to make a prediction that 2019 will be either Skrull- or Kree-oriented, maybe both. With Captain Marvel being the central hero of the event. I'm also going to predict 2020 will be Avengers vs. Inhumans. For another Avengers vs. X-Men event . . . I'll say sometime between 2022-2025. (I'll also make the bold prediction that all these events will be written by white dudes.)

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Steve Rogers is back and will be the sole Captain America again, with Sam being demoted back to being Falcon. (And hey, I hope all you people who bitched about how they should promote Sam as Falcon plan on picking that up!) Jane's story was always a finite one and I'm sure Bro-Thor will be the sole Thor again at that point. There's indications Tony Stark will likely return pretty soon, with Riri continuing on as Ironheart. Laura as Wolverine already co-exists alongside Old Man Logan, and to be blunt, Old Man Logan and Regular Logan are not actually all that different anyway, and Logan is still frigging everywhere and is in every goddamn X-title. Banner will be back at some point, and in the meantime, Pak is actually telling a very specific story with Amadeus. Clint and Kate have co-existed for years, even if the current Hawkeye series is specifically about Kate. (I'm sure that, when Thompson's run is finished, the series will be re-launched with the pair teamed up again.)

    Marvel is moving back towards the thing people say they should do. Which is the thing that anyone with any sense of pattern recognition knew would happen.
    How is being the Falcon a demotion? Sam Wilson as the Falcon is a cool and unique character, and yes I intend to pick up his book now that he's regained his uniqueness.

    And Pak telling a very specific story about Cho is of small comfort for those who would like to read about Banner. Why does telling Chulk's story require having Banner dead? Why does telling Riri's story require having Stark in a coma?

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I think the issue is that the characters have become avatars or proxies for the ongoing (and extremely heated) debate in the real world over who counts as an American and who doesn't, and who gets to define who is or isn't an American. You have lots of people who are becoming or have been part of the comics fandom that honestly just want to be better-represented and portrayed (and more included) in the media that they consume. You also have lots of people in the fandom who have been there for a long time themselves, who are used to things being a certain way that's worked out well enough for them so far, and so they are understandably skittish about upsetting the proverbial apple cart, even if they're told they can reach more people with a new apple cart than with the one they've got now, to extend that particular metaphor. Again, this reflects the debate in real life about the changing face of American society and culture, and the alienation many have come to feel as they believe they are not or no longer included in this changing America, versus the alienation of those striving to finally feel fully included in American society. Marvel has made itself part of that debate, and while clearly taking a side in said debate, it's not so surprising when one recalls that its most iconic heroes were themselves striving for acceptance and inclusion into a society that feared and shunned them for their differences. The end goal, of course, should be coexistence, as the OP suggests, not one subsuming the other or vice versa, and there should be greater attempts to foster understanding instead of fomenting conflict and driving people into opposing camps.
    This!

    There is little to no reason that the new spin-off characters can not coexist with the orginal characters. There is also no reason that the heroes need to be in one war or anther with each other for the past decade.

    Im so sick of the in-fighting amongst fans over stuff that there is no wonder my pull list consist of two titles currently. When it use to be 10-15 books.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    This!

    There is little to no reason that the new spin-off characters can not coexist with the orginal characters. There is also no reason that the heroes need to be in one war or anther with each other for the past decade.

    Im so sick of the in-fighting amongst fans over stuff that there is no wonder my pull list consist of two titles currently. When it use to be 10-15 books.
    Yep.

    I think one problem fans have is that they don't really listen to one another. I'm sorry but it's true. When I hear someone say: "I like Ms. Marvel" I understand that they like the character, not that they're saying "f*ck Carol Danvers". When people say: "I want to read about Thor" they don't necessarily mean "I hate Jane-Thor" or worse "I hate diversity".

    If people paid more attention to what others are saying and less time trying to find a hidden message or meaning to their posts, I think everybody would be a lot happier. Well, that's my two cents

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    This!

    There is little to no reason that the new spin-off characters can not coexist with the orginal characters. There is also no reason that the heroes need to be in one war or anther with each other for the past decade.

    Im so sick of the in-fighting amongst fans over stuff that there is no wonder my pull list consist of two titles currently. When it use to be 10-15 books.
    You're right when you say there's no reason that the old heroes and the new heroes can't co-exist. Thing is, the old heroes were never going to be gone for good in the first place. Most of them have been replaced (or even died) before and they always come back.

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