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  1. #16
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    He ultimately "lost" everytime. Thats just bad booking in wrestling terms ;p

    Compared to say Sinestro, or Atrocitus or Larfleeze who all had notable "victories" in the same run, Mongul was kind of a relatively lame duck villain

    Also the character wasn't written as menacingly with the whole "daddy never said 'well done'" theme
    Hey! We never use the L-word when it comes to ducks!!

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shellhead View Post
    Mjolnir, with his forcefield:



    Mjolnir, without his forcefield:

    So wait....Juggs has a forcefield in addition to intense durability?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  3. #18
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    So wait....Juggs has a forcefield in addition to intense durability?
    Rarely mentioned but yes. He has one.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    A couple more examples of the forcefield:

    Disintegrates Spidey's webbing before it can touch him

    Treats Jean Grey's TK as if it were a physical thing, and thus something that can be pushed back

    Also to note, the force field plus super durability are how Juggernaut can withstand the Godforce.
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
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  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    So is he as tough as Thanos when his shield is on? Or is he as tough as Thanos even when it isn't up? I ask this because Juggs was ruled as being about as tough as Thanos on here.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  6. #21
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    So is he as tough as Thanos when his shield is on? Or is he as tough as Thanos even when it isn't up? I ask this because Juggs was ruled as being about as tough as Thanos on here.
    Eh, it's a hard call, really. The force field is only mentioned with certain writers. Basically, Cain is more or less about as invulnerable as you can reasonably get. This does not stop him from getting knocked around now and again, but he just gets right back up, mostly no worse for wear. Against Thor, the forcefield plus his invulnerability let him tank the Godblast (or godforce, whatever it was that day), and let him flat-out no-sell Mjolnir. With out the field, Thor could knock him around, and his punch ripped through the helmet, but he was still getting up.

    That said, he's had fights with other strong types before, without the forcefield mentioned at all. Nimrod didn't mention it when he knocked Juggy's hat off and sonic'd him into sleep, It's never come up against Hulky types, that I recall - and they have had to do things like space toss him to "win", since they can't hurt him at all.

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Miracleman's Avatar
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    considering current Juggernaut got an upgrade that was signifigant. I wouldn't say classic cain is the only top level version. I mean,he is even invulnerable now to psionics completely. He i think even one punched colossus to another state.

  8. #23
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    He could probably always have punched Colossus to another state. A nonchalant slap to Brian Braddock sent him probably two or three miles away, and Brian (being a flier) could arguably do something to lessen the distance. If it's against a non-flyer and if he really meant to hit him hard, Piotr should hope he packed his passport.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    *Godblast, not Godforce. My bad.

    Though it's funny to think of Mjolnir shooting Hercules at Juggernaut. Zounds!
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
    --African proverb

  10. #25
    Mighty Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    can he remove his helmet as it is the one and only sure shot way to take him out?
    The Self is the only existing reality

  11. #26
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    He could probably always have punched Colossus to another state. A nonchalant slap to Brian Braddock sent him probably two or three miles away, and Brian (being a flier) could arguably do something to lessen the distance. If it's against a non-flyer and if he really meant to hit him hard, Piotr should hope he packed his passport.
    The slap to Brian also left a deep trench through rock for all X miles. Just a LITTLE more resistance than hitting someone through air.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    can he remove his helmet as it is the one and only sure shot way to take him out?
    In the past, he still had his durability and other powers without the helmet, and he could still take super-punches just as well without it. It was more of a shield to protect against psychic attacks. A couple writers here and there might've been inconsistent, but for the majority of his fights, removing the helmet did not mean instant defeat without a telepath.

    However, modern Juggernaut received a powerup, and his mind is protected even without the helmet. The helmet at this point is more of a tool than protection.
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
    --African proverb

  13. #28
    Mighty Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Eh, it's a hard call, really. The force field is only mentioned with certain writers. Basically, Cain is more or less about as invulnerable as you can reasonably get. This does not stop him from getting knocked around now and again, but he just gets right back up, mostly no worse for wear. Against Thor, the forcefield plus his invulnerability let him tank the Godblast (or godforce, whatever it was that day), and let him flat-out no-sell Mjolnir. With out the field, Thor could knock him around, and his punch ripped through the helmet, but he was still getting up.

    That said, he's had fights with other strong types before, without the forcefield mentioned at all. Nimrod didn't mention it when he knocked Juggy's hat off and sonic'd him into sleep, It's never come up against Hulky types, that I recall - and they have had to do things like space toss him to "win", since they can't hurt him at all.
    Eh... When Thor dropped Cain's force field, he pummeled Cain senseless and nearly got the win, but he only had 60 seconds to do it before his hammer had to return and the force field turned back on. Thor thought he was literally one punch away from the win.

    http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/o...ggernaut11.jpg

    So Cain seemed to drop down to "mere" class 100 levels sans force field, rather than bouncing the God Blast with it. So his actual flesh doesn't seem be as tough in that story.

    But later stories don't seem to acknowledge the force field, instead giving Cain higher invulnerability of the flesh, plus some pretty sick healing factor slash damage soak feats, like instantly healing from a sword in the eye, fighting as a burning skeletons, or the more recent thing with Colossus not getting slowed down as his skull and bones break.

    So I'm inclined to think Juggernaut doesn't really have the force field anymore, much like Magneto doesn't have actual psychic powers anymore. Feel free to prove me wrong, internet!

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Eh, it's a hard call, really. The force field is only mentioned with certain writers. Basically, Cain is more or less about as invulnerable as you can reasonably get. This does not stop him from getting knocked around now and again, but he just gets right back up, mostly no worse for wear. Against Thor, the forcefield plus his invulnerability let him tank the Godblast (or godforce, whatever it was that day), and let him flat-out no-sell Mjolnir. With out the field, Thor could knock him around, and his punch ripped through the helmet, but he was still getting up.

    That said, he's had fights with other strong types before, without the forcefield mentioned at all. Nimrod didn't mention it when he knocked Juggy's hat off and sonic'd him into sleep, It's never come up against Hulky types, that I recall - and they have had to do things like space toss him to "win", since they can't hurt him at all.
    Well he gets his power from a Skyfather right? And the level of that power would completely depend on how much said Skyfather likes Cain at that time right? Wouldn't that mean he could potentially get as tough as a Skyfather level being?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Drunkard Kid View Post
    Physically grabbing an released Black Hole to stop it is like throwing a sandwich at Galactus to stop him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Len Ikari145 View Post
    I stand by my belief of Toriyama seeing a certain match online and going "Oh Yeah?!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Every time you say the name of some kind of nonsense martial art, an angel gets its wings, and Val Armorr learns the martial art, retroactively founds it, then super karates the angel unconscious with it.

  15. #30
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    Well he gets his power from a Skyfather right? And the level of that power would completely depend on how much said Skyfather likes Cain at that time right? Wouldn't that mean he could potentially get as tough as a Skyfather level being?
    Nah.

    Cyttorak is basically a Dormammu type, but with less direct feats, usually operating by proxy.
    "Someone or thing has got to pay, it's given too much to take away. Oh I just want a legacy, Oh I just want it all to never fade! Don't we all arrive, at the same place where we began?" - Divisi

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