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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchist View Post
    Well Cyttorak managed to make 2/5 of the Phoenix Five look powerless in his own realm
    1/5. Colossus is the only one who really did anything; Magik just brought him there and as she revealed later, she had no intention of having Cyttorak release him from the enchantment,

    Besides, that doesn't really count considering that Magik also made the Juggernaut enchantment her bitch in Limbo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    So wait, Colossus was just as tough as Juggernaut normally is right? So how strong would Kuurthnaut be for him to do what every single person who fought Juggernaut fail to do(hurt him)?
    We don't know how strong he was at that point. Cyttorak was a bit more flexible in how much power he handed out in that storyline. Though it would be somewhat out of character for him to deliberately hand out just enough power.

  2. #47
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    Also, people *have* hurt the Juggernaut before, albeit often with some asterisk attached to it like using some kind of spell or enchanted weapon. His modern version, since they stopped having the forcefield be a thing, seems to combine an incredible damage soak and healing factor on top of being very, very durable.

    I tend to think of Juggernaut as someone Thor or Hulk can't put down using conventional methods, but it is a little hard to say where he is beyond that. Also, he's occasionally been dropped by esoteric stuff like sonics. So I'm not sure of Cain could withstand a blitz from Gladiator, but I feel pretty strongly Surfer could put him down with *something.*

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Also, people *have* hurt the Juggernaut before, albeit often with some asterisk attached to it like using some kind of spell or enchanted weapon. His modern version, since they stopped having the forcefield be a thing, seems to combine an incredible damage soak and healing factor on top of being very, very durable.

    I tend to think of Juggernaut as someone Thor or Hulk can't put down using conventional methods, but it is a little hard to say where he is beyond that. Also, he's occasionally been dropped by esoteric stuff like sonics. So I'm not sure of Cain could withstand a blitz from Gladiator, but I feel pretty strongly Surfer could put him down with *something.*
    It seems less than he is hurt by most things and more that he takes a form of superficial "damage" in most cases. Such as being reduced to a glowing skeleton or hacked up with a magical sword and healing as he laughs about it. It does not seem to do any actual harm.

    On the other hand, he does show a strange off-weakness to things that allow them to chase him off or something as well.

    I have heard it here that people were accepting Juggernaut's durability as somewhere around Thanos-level, but I am not sure where the high-end of this came from.
    Gladiator is questionable. It depends on the validity of the Thanos statement but it always /felt/ like Gladiator was strong enough (and fast enough) to blitz Juggernaut down but that may different if he is really that tough.
    Surfer almost certainly has some strange power-steal, transmutation, etc that would work on him.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrile Demonthyst View Post
    It seems less than he is hurt by most things and more that he takes a form of superficial "damage" in most cases. Such as being reduced to a glowing skeleton or hacked up with a magical sword and healing as he laughs about it. It does not seem to do any actual harm.

    On the other hand, he does show a strange off-weakness to things that allow them to chase him off or something as well.

    I have heard it here that people were accepting Juggernaut's durability as somewhere around Thanos-level, but I am not sure where the high-end of this came from.
    Gladiator is questionable. It depends on the validity of the Thanos statement but it always /felt/ like Gladiator was strong enough (and fast enough) to blitz Juggernaut down but that may different if he is really that tough.
    Surfer almost certainly has some strange power-steal, transmutation, etc that would work on him.
    That's what I mean when I say damage soak. It's like Invincible. He can get torn to shreds but keep fighting anyway.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Difference between Dormammu and Cyttorak is that Dormammu has ... Feats, and an overall presentation as Odin's peer (they play chess as Order and Chaos' representatives, and the match ends in a draw).

    Cyttorak has ... Nothing of the sort, and most of the 'feats' he has are by proxy. People using the Crimson Bands, Juggernaut being the Juggernaut. 8th Day Juggernaut being the best for 'by proxy' feats, still puts him below the likes of Odin.
    Being directly compared to Odin isn’t the only measure of Sky-father level. Hoggoth, Oshtur, Chthon, Ikon and Watoomb also have little direct feats but you’d estimate their power levels to be extraordinarily high due to their power always being invoked by Strange and other people. And Cyttorak has created living elves to worship him; so being able to create life has got to be right up there.

  6. #51
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    Being directly compared to Odin isn’t the only measure of Sky-father level. Hoggoth, Oshtur, Chthon, Ikon and Watoomb also have little direct feats but you’d estimate their power levels to be extraordinarily high due to their power always being invoked by Strange and other people. And Cyttorak has created living elves to worship him; so being able to create life has got to be right up there.
    Not particularly, based on feats.

    Which I repeat again, is not the only thing I'm measuring Cyttorak by.
    "Someone or thing has got to pay, it's given too much to take away. Oh I just want a legacy, Oh I just want it all to never fade! Don't we all arrive, at the same place where we began?" - Divisi

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Not particularly, based on feats.

    Which I repeat again, is not the only thing I'm measuring Cyttorak by.
    By your measure, Hoggoth, Oshtur, Ikon and Watoomb are all below Odin-level?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    By your measure, Hoggoth, Oshtur, Ikon and Watoomb are all below Odin-level?
    Even more so, given that those guys generally have even less feats.

    But I will say that creating living elves to worship me is totally something I need to get onto doing next.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    well actually going by feats juggernaut has managed to whip cyttoraks ass more than once like when he was imprisoned in his gem and got out after defeating him in a cage match after he was empowered by the same power used to bind him in the gem. then he wrecked him during the eight day to free himself from being his thrall. Must be humiliating for cyttorak to be constantly being nerfed by his own avatar. Odin on the contrary has never lost to Thor if you don't count him being walled upon by erick Thor iirc. if he has been then he also loses serious face among sky fathers.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Even more so, given that those guys generally have even less feats.

    But I will say that creating living elves to worship me is totally something I need to get onto doing next.
    Oh yeah. This is directly in line with nearly all of my life goals.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    Even more so, given that those guys generally have even less feats.
    Then everyone on this table, except Zeus and Osiris would be below Odin-level, seeing as they don't have feats?

    sky-fathers.jpg

  12. #57
    Captain Obvious big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k von doom View Post
    Then everyone on this table, except Zeus and Osiris would be below Odin-level, seeing as they don't have feats?

    sky-fathers.jpg
    To an extent, yes, but there is actually a bit more subtlety than that as well: "Skyfather" isn't a powerset, it's a grouping of people into a class for easy discussion. In that tier, you'd have, oh, Rune King Thor at the top, followed by his father, followed by Zeus, followed by Osiris, followed by others. The "Skyfather" class holds up somewhere above Thanos, who is above Heralds, and somewhat below "high end cosmics". But inside those tiers, there are often decent-sized gaps based on feats.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    I often wonder why the sorcerous entities like cryotrakk,ikkon and the like don't form a group and have regular meeting themselves. Its prevalent in DC also where only the good cosmic entities come together in the celestial quintessence but darkseid Neron, Mordo, Time trapper stay the hell away from each other.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    I often wonder why the sorcerous entities like cryotrakk,ikkon and the like don't form a group and have regular meeting themselves. Its prevalent in DC also where only the good cosmic entities come together in the celestial quintessence but darkseid Neron, Mordo, Time trapper stay the hell away from each other.
    They have done. See the Octessence.

    But they don't all like each other very much, and hence the Exemplars.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    They have done. See the Octessence.

    But they don't all like each other very much, and hence the Exemplars.
    Yeah but it was a one off deal to determine who was stronger and will be able to defeat others to claim the earth. They didn't meet each other to keep track of the bet or for ensuring someone does find their artifacts to kickoff. I am proposing a war council like group or Illuminati one to determine the advance of Sorcery.
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