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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    So...

    spoilers:

    Anarky definitely kisses Steph, but thankfully, it doesn't seem she'll have too much regret when Tim comes back, since she immediately pushes him away. I'm okay with that.

    Steph doesn't learn about Tim still being alive, as far as I can tell - but her appearing in Birds of Prey this month and next month, not to mention her being on the cover of A Lonely Place of Living's final issue, seem to indicate that she's softening towards Batman.

    I don't think this issue did a great job balancing between the Clayface and Steph plots. Neither of them have connected to each other very strongly, so there wasn't much chance to combine their stuff, so I think this should have been a three-issue arc. Leslie and Bruce never even got close to each other, which I think is a terrible shame.

    The Clayface stuff was nicely done, if feeling more than a bit like spinning our wheels. We know that Dr. October is working with Basil, and the relationship stuff with Mudface, Dr. October, and Cass especially was great, but nothing really progressed, except maybe Basil's desperation.

    The Steph stuff, especially the fight with Anarky, felt a lot more rushed. Not only does Batman pop up multiple times in awkward panels (both in his first entrance and the fight), Steph says she knows Anarky's weaknesses, but fails completely to use any of them. A three page fight would have been better, I think, but the Clayface and Steph stories were battling for space, leaving Steph to get shorter shrift.

    Still a decent issue, but I definitely missed Tynion's hand in the dialogue. And I'm curious to see how the First Victim and Anarky play into Ra's and Valley Sr.'s plans for Tynion's 1000 issue arc.
    end of spoilers
    I'm pretty much in full agreement here. The connection between Anarky and spoilers:
    The Victim Syndicate
    end of spoilers is really interesting, though. I expect that to play a big part in "Fall of the Batmen." Also nice to see Harper and Dr. Thompkins helping out Utopia, though it does raise the question of how they found out about it.
    Last edited by Caivu; 09-12-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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  2. #17
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I'm pretty much in full agreement here. The connection between Anarky and spoilers:
    The Victim Syndicate
    end of spoilers is really interesting, though. I expect that to play a big part in "Fall of the Batmen." Also nice to see Harper and Dr. Thompkins helping out Utopia, though it does raise the question of how they found out about it.
    Yeah, I did not expect it, but it's really well thought through. At this point, with Clayface, Steph, Tim, and all the villains (Ra's, Valley, the Syndicate, Anarky, Wrath), I am just waiting to see what's going to happen!

    I really want Leslie to be a thing again.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member Caivu's Avatar
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    The two of them as allies makes a lot of sense given that their motives are so similar.
    Mega fan of: Helena Bertinelli (pre-52), Batwoman, Birds of Prey, Guardians of the Galaxy, Secret Six
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  4. #19
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    "Dumb, dumb, dumb." - My summary of this issue. Well, the Steph parts at least.

    As far as Basil's plot went, while Miller is correct that we really didn't learn anything new and the colorist once again made Cass FAR too white, the relationship stuff with Mudface, October and Cass was all really well done. And, do my eyes deceive me? Was that actual motion being shown in a Cass fight again?! So they CAN do this more than once a year! Oye, why couldn't her fight against the League of Shadows have her moving like this and like how she moved against Azrael?

    As for Steph and Lonnie...he ruined it. I never got my hopes up, even despite the decent start, and they ruined it as expected. I knew it was a bad sign when we saw those guys with guns considering Lonnie is ANTI-GUNS (!), but working with the Victim Syndicate? Trying to skill Steph? BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULL CRAAAAAAAAAAAAP! I have said this every damn time we've brought this up: Lonnie. Does. Not. Kill. I'm glad that Bruce didn't shut down the city because that would have just made him the biggest Batjerk we've seen in awhile, and I like that they put Harper and Leslie there to not entirely strawman the argument, but they still f**ked up Lonnie for the sake of a twist and having a villain, because, no, he's not secretly interested in power or anything like that. HE. WOULDN'T. DO THIS.

    As such, I'm checking out. They made Anarky a villain and that's unacceptable to me. Lonnie means too much to me to keep putting up with this crap. It's why I didn't give Beware the Batman a chance, and it was the final straw when it came to me watching Arrow. From this point on, I'm checking the thread before each issue. If Lonnie's in it? I'm not buying it.



    PS. Why the f**k is Lonnie in ARKHAM?!
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  5. #20
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    They need to stop this two plots at once stuff. Nothing meshes well together in this issue. Certain people are still dumb and unlikable too. Cass and Basil still best friendship and then going on adventures and helping each other is all I want now.

  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Also, just noticed something else about the coloring: They gave Cass blue eyes! How does this keep bloody happening?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
    They need to stop this two plots at once stuff. Nothing meshes well together in this issue. Certain people are still dumb and unlikable too. Cass and Basil still best friendship and then going on adventures and helping each other is all I want now.
    Pacing has never been this book's strong suit. Likely because it ties so heavily into Tynion and co's largest weak point: Plotting.

    I hope someone at DC is paying to attention to Basil (and by extension his relationship with Cass) being the most favored thing about this book (It's not just here. Elsewhere too, while there are a couple haters, these are the aspects most people praise)
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  7. #22
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    "Dumb, dumb, dumb." - My summary of this issue. Well, the Steph parts at least.

    As far as Basil's plot went, while Miller is correct that we really didn't learn anything new and the colorist once again made Cass FAR too white, the relationship stuff with Mudface, October and Cass was all really well done. And, do my eyes deceive me? Was that actual motion being shown in a Cass fight again?! So they CAN do this more than once a year! Oye, why couldn't her fight against the League of Shadows have her moving like this and like how she moved against Azrael?

    As for Steph and Lonnie...he ruined it. I never got my hopes up, even despite the decent start, and they ruined it as expected. I knew it was a bad sign when we saw those guys with guns considering Lonnie is ANTI-GUNS (!), but working with the Victim Syndicate? Trying to skill Steph? BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULL CRAAAAAAAAAAAAP! I have said this every damn time we've brought this up: Lonnie. Does. Not. Kill. I'm glad that Bruce didn't shut down the city because that would have just made him the biggest Batjerk we've seen in awhile, and I like that they put Harper and Leslie there to not entirely strawman the argument, but they still f**ked up Lonnie for the sake of a twist and having a villain, because, no, he's not secretly interested in power or anything like that. HE. WOULDN'T. DO THIS.

    As such, I'm checking out. They made Anarky a villain and that's unacceptable to me. Lonnie means too much to me to keep putting up with this crap. It's why I didn't give Beware the Batman a chance, and it was the final straw when it came to me watching Arrow. From this point on, I'm checking the thread before each issue. If Lonnie's in it? I'm not buying it.

    PS. Why the f**k is Lonnie in ARKHAM?!
    My guess is that Lonnie is in Arkham because he wants to be close to the First Victim.

    I don't think that the Victim Syndicate ever tried to kill Steph - it was more like a warning shot to the shoulder. Not acceptable, but also not intentionally lethal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
    They need to stop this two plots at once stuff. Nothing meshes well together in this issue. Certain people are still dumb and unlikable too. Cass and Basil still best friendship and then going on adventures and helping each other is all I want now.
    Much as I'm normally on board with this book, I agree that at least in this arc, the two plots are not handled well at all.
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  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    My guess is that Lonnie is in Arkham because he wants to be close to the First Victim.
    1. Far as I'm aware, judges decide where a prisoner spends their sentence, not the defendant.
    2. Speaking of which, how is Lonnie already in jail? While I'm sure there are special procedures in place for Batman's rogues, especially the more dangerous ones, to get them put away ASAP, Lonnie is just an ordinary criminal from an in-world POV. There should have been a trial process.
    3. HOW could there have been a trial process? Wouldn't he have gotten out of it by threatening to reveal the BatFam's identities?
    4. Even if we assume that 2 and 3 aren't issues, and Lonnie being a minor doesn't matter in this world either, why would he be sent to ARKHAM? It's a prison for the criminals who are mentally ill. And not even getting in to how THAT bag of worms has and always will taint the Batman franchise, what judge in their right mind would send Lonnie to the same place as the Joker?! He's clearly not mentally ill.

    The more you think about this, the less it makes ANY sense. Because right now, I'm left to assume that while Lonnie was unconscious, Batman went there and had him committed (for SOME reason) personally. WTF!?

    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I don't think that the Victim Syndicate ever tried to kill Steph - it was more like a warning shot to the shoulder. Not acceptable, but also not intentionally lethal.
    No, but Lonnie sure as Hell looked like he was trying to kill Steph. And the Victim Syndicate's entire goal revolved around killing the BatFam.
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  9. #24
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
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    Steph is more intelligent than Harper and Leslie.. She is more bat-character than these 2, she canīt trust completely in anarky..

    Anarky is the kind of man that deceive young girls with problems..

    I am surprised for Cass powers against Karlo.. He is under her control, she is the only person that he doesnīt want dissapoint..

    Of course, he was related with the victim syndicate... the character in the last page is the first victim, no? I said that previosly, I think that he can be Cluemaster, he is obsessed with Steph..
    Last edited by adrikito; 09-13-2017 at 07:12 AM.

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    Steph is more intelligent than Harper and Leslie..
    No she isn't? At the very least this isn't an example of anything. The town itself worked great, and the only reason there's a problem is because these writers don't understand Lonnie.
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  11. #26
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    No she isn't? At the very least this isn't an example of anything. The town itself worked great, and the only reason there's a problem is because these writers don't understand Lonnie.
    I changed a little my comment.. Is only because she canīt trust is anarky completely, these 2 fall easily..

  12. #27
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    1. Far as I'm aware, judges decide where a prisoner spends their sentence, not the defendant.
    2. Speaking of which, how is Lonnie already in jail? While I'm sure there are special procedures in place for Batman's rogues, especially the more dangerous ones, to get them put away ASAP, Lonnie is just an ordinary criminal from an in-world POV. There should have been a trial process.
    3. HOW could there have been a trial process? Wouldn't he have gotten out of it by threatening to reveal the BatFam's identities?
    4. Even if we assume that 2 and 3 aren't issues, and Lonnie being a minor doesn't matter in this world either, why would he be sent to ARKHAM? It's a prison for the criminals who are mentally ill. And not even getting in to how THAT bag of worms has and always will taint the Batman franchise, what judge in their right mind would send Lonnie to the same place as the Joker?! He's clearly not mentally ill.

    The more you think about this, the less it makes ANY sense. Because right now, I'm left to assume that while Lonnie was unconscious, Batman went there and had him committed (for SOME reason) personally. WTF!?

    No, but Lonnie sure as Hell looked like he was trying to kill Steph. And the Victim Syndicate's entire goal revolved around killing the BatFam.
    Well, this is Gotham, which fundamentally is broken, which is why Batman is a necessary reaction to the evil in the city. So I can easily imagine Lonnie pulling strings to get himself sent wherever he wants. Since he also has a phone and guards delivering messages for him, I think that is almost definitely the case - prisoners are almost certainly not allowed phones according to the rules of the Asylum. So I think this is all Lonnie's backup plan based on Steph rejecting him - and that includes him being sent to Arkham.

    I though Lonnie was just going to stun and imprison Steph. Hmmm.

    But no, the Victim Syndicate wanted Batman to unmask, not kill him. At least, that's what they said. They committed an awful lot of murders (at least the poison guy did at the First Victim's orders), so there is some question about a gap between stated goals and actual actions. But still, the First Victim always talked a good game.
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  13. #28
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    Of course, he was related with the victim syndicate... the character in the last page is the first victim, no? I said that previosly, I think that he can be Cluemaster, he is obsessed with Steph..
    The only problem with First Victim being Cluemaster is that Batman and Batwoman seem to have seen underneath the mask. They did say it was hideously scarred, which could have obscured Arthur's features, but there's no way his DNA isn't on record, since he's a former Blackgate inmate (if I remember correctly).
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  14. #29

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    Tec and Nightwing are the only things keeping me going with comics now.

  15. #30
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentofthebat View Post
    Tec and Nightwing are the only things keeping me going with comics now.
    Really? Glad you're enjoying them, but what about Mister Miracle, or Deathstroke? Or everyone but me's fave, Metal?
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