Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 112
  1. #31
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    13,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Please, explains to me how a society of only women is supposedly better at everything, both socially and emotionally than a mixed society is actually not pure and unadultered sexism. Marston's WW would have been a feminist icon in my eyes if :
    -either she was like Azz's, a woman able to overcome prejudices and lies to actually become the epitome of what her own society proclaim to be, that is just, kind, compassionnate and strong
    -the Amazon's society had men all along, but what shocked the ancient Greeks was that gender had no impact whatsoever in their society, a man or a woman could do whatever task they wanted without being seen as "degrading" or an "abomination".

    But you can't forge a society of warriors who are women only, perfect at everything and pretend that it is not sexist. Plus, you can't create a warrior society full of peaceful peoples most of the time, it simply doesn't work. So, yes, Azz did away with the 70+ years of WW before the New 52, but doing so he greatly improved the character, by lifting away the multiple veils of hypocrisy ingrained into this character mythos : the Amazons are sexists and cruels, because the very core of their society predispose them to be, and that's okay for them to be, because Diana is only more heroic and inspiring when she ascend above their pettiness and cruelty to become a great hero.
    The only time the Amazons were just warriors and nothing else was under Azzarello. They've been architects, priestesses, scientists, philosophers, musicians, artists and many more.

    Making every other woman except your main female protagonist a hateful snake does not a feminist icon make. That's just a use of the "not like other girls" trope which is itself sexist.

    The Amazons hadn't been portrayed as perfect since Perez wrote them. They had their good traits and bad ones but they were far better written than Azz's version. Furthermore, we knew why they were so mistrustful of men

  2. #32
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The way Rucka treated the whole New 52 and earlier stories in Rebirth. Azzarello had made me love the character of Wonder Woman for the first time. Rucka destroyed any interest I had in her.
    I'm an Azzarello supporter when it comes to Wonder Woman but I do think even if Rucka tosses that in the trash you should judge the story on how good it is and how Wonder Woman is portrayed.

    If you don't like Rucka's story that is fine. But don't dislike it solely because he retconned an excellent story.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Please, explains to me how a society of only women is supposedly better at everything, both socially and emotionally than a mixed society is actually not pure and unadultered sexism. Marston's WW would have been a feminist icon in my eyes if :
    -either she was like Azz's, a woman able to overcome prejudices and lies to actually become the epitome of what her own society proclaim to be, that is just, kind, compassionnate and strong
    -the Amazon's society had men all along, but what shocked the ancient Greeks was that gender had no impact whatsoever in their society, a man or a woman could do whatever task they wanted without being seen as "degrading" or an "abomination".

    But you can't forge a society of warriors who are women only, perfect at everything and pretend that it is not sexist. Plus, you can't create a warrior society full of peaceful peoples most of the time, it simply doesn't work. So, yes, Azz did away with the 70+ years of WW before the New 52, but doing so he greatly improved the character, by lifting away the multiple veils of hypocrisy ingrained into this character mythos : the Amazons are sexists and cruels, because the very core of their society predispose them to be, and that's okay for them to be, because Diana is only more heroic and inspiring when she ascend above their pettiness and cruelty to become a great hero.
    You act as if Marston was the only writer before Azzarello. He was not.

    Please read the other runs that address the issues you have before declaring Azzarello the savior of modern feminism.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,534

    Default

    The amazons have shown to be flawed people. Songs not like they are better than everyone else. Wth Azz they are not flawed but jerks and monsters
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  5. #35
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Gotham City
    Posts
    3,088

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The way Rucka treated the whole New 52 and earlier stories in Rebirth. Azzarello had made me love the character of Wonder Woman for the first time. Rucka destroyed any interest I had in her.
    The same.. I am interested in the Grail/Darkseid WW arc, only for those 2.. No matter that Jason or WW..

    Anyway.. Without WW and Flash.. More easy give one opportunity to another things..


    Donna Troy N52 origin too... Too scary.. like the N52 amazons killing men...
    Last edited by adrikito; 09-09-2017 at 09:52 AM.

  6. #36
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Injustice 2 Wonder Woman.

    Just check out the Youtube comments. Wonder Woman got alot of brutal hate for manipulating Superman into a dictator.

    Wonder Woman protrayal in the animated series and movies.

    In Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, WW was a protrayed as a man hating bloodthirsty warrior woman. Totally out of character. WW is suppose to be a compassionate and wise character.

    In Justice League Doom. Cheetah use nanites to make Wonder Woman see illusions of herself. WW would have use the lasso of truth on herself, eliminate the illusions and find cheetah.

    Wonder Woman is blessed by Artemis the goddess of the hunt and she makes her senses(eyesight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch) many times stronger than a average human being. WW would have use her smell sense similar to Wolverine and find Cheetah.

    Wonder Woman is the wisest member of the Justice League and wouldn't let Batman talk her down for being irresponsible that almost got the league killed.

    I hate it when Dc dumbdown Wonder Woman's intelligence.

  7. #37
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Please, explains to me how a society of only women is supposedly better at everything, both socially and emotionally than a mixed society is actually not pure and unadultered sexism. Marston's WW would have been a feminist icon in my eyes if :
    -either she was like Azz's, a woman able to overcome prejudices and lies to actually become the epitome of what her own society proclaim to be, that is just, kind, compassionnate and strong
    -the Amazon's society had men all along, but what shocked the ancient Greeks was that gender had no impact whatsoever in their society, a man or a woman could do whatever task they wanted without being seen as "degrading" or an "abomination".

    But you can't forge a society of warriors who are women only, perfect at everything and pretend that it is not sexist. Plus, you can't create a warrior society full of peaceful peoples most of the time, it simply doesn't work. So, yes, Azz did away with the 70+ years of WW before the New 52, but doing so he greatly improved the character, by lifting away the multiple veils of hypocrisy ingrained into this character mythos : the Amazons are sexists and cruels, because the very core of their society predispose them to be, and that's okay for them to be, because Diana is only more heroic and inspiring when she ascend above their pettiness and cruelty to become a great hero.
    Please, explain to me which has done FAR more REAL harm to living breathing humans throughout the globe and throughout history: patriarchies or societies of only women?

    On a much smaller scale, please, explain to me how men dominating the superhero market is not sexism.

    All of that is beyond a single writer? Of course. But how is promoting patriarchal narratives, while trashing/eliminating the non-patriarchal, not part of that larger cultural sexism? How are high-tech gorillas acceptable, but a society of high-tech women is not? If you don't believe a society can train to defend itself and be peaceful, because of history, then why do you buy into sexed-based male infanticide perpetrated by women? When has that ever happened in our history?

    Fact is, Azzarello purposefully trashed many of the female-centric elements of the WW story to make it more male-centric. Sexism and hypocrisy are ingrained in Azzarello's approach. And that type of sexism has done far more real harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The only time the Amazons were just warriors and nothing else was under Azzarello. They've been architects, priestesses, scientists, philosophers, musicians, artists and many more.

    Making every other woman except your main female protagonist a hateful snake does not a feminist icon make. That's just a use of the "not like other girls" trope which is itself sexist.

    The Amazons hadn't been portrayed as perfect since Perez wrote them. They had their good traits and bad ones but they were far better written than Azz's version. Furthermore, we knew why they were so mistrustful of men
    Wonderful post, Agent Z.

    Azzarello wrote Diana well - but, in doing so, he often trashed the women around her to make her look better. That alone is anti-feminist.

    And, no, I'm not suggesting that all women, not even the Amazons, need to be "perfect" (a lie perpetuated by Azzarello).
    Last edited by Awonder; 09-09-2017 at 11:09 AM.

  8. #38
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    335

    Default

    When pre-crisis Diana said "I don't even like women!"

    This incredibly stupid issue of Super Powers by Jack Kirby in which the Amazons were about as threatening as wet tissue and tossed aside just as easily.

    Kirby super powers.jpg

    The Finch run.

    The sailor-slaughtering Amazons.

    The hideous art in volume II, #84, by Massengil. It was, perhaps, the worst art I've ever seen in this title.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,201

    Default

    It's a tie between the outight murdering Amazons of "AMAZONS ATTACK" killing a young boy and his father in the opening pages, or Wonder Woman letting hundreds of innocent people die In League of One while she takes time to protect the other JLA members.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,201

    Default

    The
    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Please, explains to me how a society of only women is supposedly better at everything, both socially and emotionally than a mixed society is actually not pure and unadultered sexism. Marston's WW would have been a feminist icon in my eyes if :
    -either she was like Azz's, a woman able to overcome prejudices and lies to actually become the epitome of what her own society proclaim to be, that is just, kind, compassionnate and strong
    -the Amazon's society had men all along, but what shocked the ancient Greeks was that gender had no impact whatsoever in their society, a man or a woman could do whatever task they wanted without being seen as "degrading" or an "abomination".

    But you can't forge a society of warriors who are women only, perfect at everything and pretend that it is not sexist. Plus, you can't create a warrior society full of peaceful peoples most of the time, it simply doesn't work. So, yes, Azz did away with the 70+ years of WW before the New 52, but doing so he greatly improved the character, by lifting away the multiple veils of hypocrisy ingrained into this character mythos : the Amazons are sexists and cruels, because the very core of their society predispose them to be, and that's okay for them to be, because Diana is only more heroic and inspiring when she ascend above their pettiness and cruelty to become a great hero.
    Marston's Amazons excelled because of a combination of immortality and Amazon training. Their society was not sexist, merely single gendered. Anyone, male or female, could ascend to the same level given the proper time and training. Their different cultural priorities are no more unusual than that of many societies not based on the highly agressive Anglo-Saxon model.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,759

    Default

    'Vegetative injustice!' or rather the entire Finch run, poorly written, ugly to look at.
    Diana sharing an apartment with a platoon of sentient gorilla's
    Return of the powerless Diana Prince thanks to Circe for some reason
    The final twist of Amazons Attack, because we really needed for the New Gods to get involved as well
    Rucka's dunderheaded decision to axe the entirety of the New 52 so he could only partially set up his own garbage

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    4,469

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    'Vegetative injustice!' or rather the entire Finch run, poorly written, ugly to look at.
    Diana sharing an apartment with a platoon of sentient gorilla's
    Return of the powerless Diana Prince thanks to Circe for some reason
    The final twist of Amazons Attack, because we really needed for the New Gods to get involved as well
    Rucka's dunderheaded decision to axe the entirety of the New 52 so he could only partially set up his own garbage

    I find your last sentence quite interesting considering that's exactly what Azzarello did. He axed everything that came before him and left so many unresolved plotlines(i.e. Diana becoming the God of War). While I loved Rucka's 2nd run, I wish he would have wrapped up a few more plot-lines as well.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  13. #43
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,015

    Default

    I probably sound like a broken record that gets spun every few years but..........
    Why was there a golden needle in Wonder Woman's God Of War helmet in the
    Azzarello run?

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by My Two Cents View Post
    I probably sound like a broken record that gets spun every few years but..........
    Why was there a golden needle in Wonder Woman's God Of War helmet in the
    Azzarello run?
    I don't know if Strife ever put it into the helmet.

    I've always written that off as Strife requesting that needle be made just so she could pop Zeke's balloons. If that's not what it was, it was an element that went completely nowhere. But if we go with the assumption that Strife had Hephaestus make it so so she could do something small and petty, that is fantastic and reaffirms why she was the best part of that run.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    956

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The way Rucka treated the whole New 52 and earlier stories in Rebirth. Azzarello had made me love the character of Wonder Woman for the first time. Rucka destroyed any interest I had in her.
    Same for me. Rucka's entire second run on the character paled vastly in comparison to his first.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 09-10-2017 at 06:55 PM.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •