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  1. #16
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    I would make these changes:

    -Put Tim and Steph back on the 'Tec book. Tim also gets his own book, with Steph playing a strong supporting character role.
    -Babs goes back to being Oracle and Cass is given the mantle of Batgirl. Cass also gets her own book.
    -Batman and Catwoman get married.
    -Bring back the LOSH
    -Bring back the complete multiverse and have other teams like the JSA exist on Earth 2
    -Speaking of Earth 2, bring back the Earth 2 Superman and join the JSA along with Jay Garrick, Black Canary, Starman, Power Girl, Green Lantern, Hawkman and Hawkgirl and Mr. Terrific (Sloan).
    -Bring back the Dark Flash and give him his own book that exists in another universe.
    -Bring back Kon-El and give him his own book
    -Give Wally (the real one) his own book
    -Publish a JLA book with these characters on the roster--Batman, Martian Manhunter (the one from the Morrison run), Mister Miracle & Barda, Superman, GL (John Stewart), Flash (Wally West), Wonder Woman, Vixen and Dr. Light (Kimiyo)
    I will fight. Forever. For everyone, whether they know it or not. Whether they are watching or not. I will always fight.---Daredevil

    "There is a difference between you and me. We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us... you blinked."---Batman

    "I am a mad man with a box!"---The Doctor

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  2. #17
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    For all answers here, IMO, there should be be something stated that would have given a big boost to DC's sales back then. Not a 5-yeear plan, but iimmediately. Not so easy, huh?
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

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  3. #18
    Spectacular Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    I agree with FishyZombie. Rebooting so as to start everything afresh is a terrible idea. The relationships in comics matter. They are in a sense the heart. One can take any characters and make them fight but it can't be heart touching without the background of the relationships. You need friendships, love, even enmity to matter when the conflict begins.

    Argument against a full reboot is there is no need to throw away everything. If something is working it is foolish to throw it. If something is not working either improve it or reject it. You don't throw away the whole currency of a country if there is some counterfeit currency. It is asking for a lot of trouble.

    A soft reboot keeping the good and leaving out the bad is the best way to move forward.

    If one tries to do something new, start a new line. Something like Ultimate in Marvel. It gives freedom. One can even experiment with new things to see how things work. It brings its own problems. I am not fully conversant with it. The experiment did not turn out as good as it should have been otherwise it would have continued even today.

    If you are really moving ahead with New 52 then i would give my example how not to do it. I was never a comic book reader. I became a fan of DC characters because of DCAU. There was Superman, Batman and JL. I really loved these shows and when i heard of New 52 i thought let us try it. I dropped all titles i tried within 5 issues some after 1. Only exception was Batman. It was the same Batman which i loved in the show. Superman's case was funny. I dropped Action Comics in two issues. I wanted something i love but what i got was a Superman wearing jeans and threatening to drop a criminal from the top of the building. It was weird. In Superman i got a sad Clark Kent walking down the hall dejected, able to hear Lois going to sleep with someone else. I never picked another issue. Justice league had no Green Lantern(Jon Stewart), Hawkgirl, Martian Manhunter. And there was an angry Superman. I can't remember when i dropped it but it was within 5 issues. I can't remember Wonder Woman or when i dropped it.*

    I get that one tries to get new fans. But one builds upon success. The animated shows were successful. It made so many fans who were eager to get into these books. And they are repeating the same mistakes in movies. DCAU shows are blueprints of success for movies or television.

    Looking back i think the tone was not for everybody. Every book was the same type: serious. This suits Batman but not to everybody. Maybe this was what turned me away. I came back in Rebirth and i find myself loving it. Mythology is dense but the books are fun. There is adventure and fun without compromising with the seriousness. I want to try out more and more titles.

    I wanted to go ahead with my New 53 plan. So my friend gave me these points that he learned from the previous experience. He said that:

    "1. Publish fewer titles. There is no sense in getting a new book every week when the fan base is not stable.
    2.Give more freedom to the writers and artists. Control makes sense in a continuing story. It does not make sense in a reboot when everything is new. The only job is to check that one does not stray away too far .
    3.After getting success with fewer titles try to understand what works and build upon it in newer titles. Say the book on Superman works with the relationship between a young Lois and Clark. Get out a romance series to the market to test the waters. Or say a horror angle worked for Batman. Try out another book on Batman where he teams up with the darker heroes like Constantine or Swamp Thing.
    4.After launching persist with the title for sometime. Don't do like Marvel where so many titles are cancelled in a few issues without giving time to develop its fan-base.
    5.After some stability is achieved you may try out new genres and new teams and titles."

    "This is no foolproof plan for a New 53. But then you are a fool to move ahead. Don't be a fool to forget these lessons. The work of writers and artists may yet bring you success."
    And i agreed with my friend.





    *I am not saying the books are bad. But it was a weird way to attract a fan from the DCAU shows. But maybe we were not the target.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 09-11-2017 at 01:28 PM.

  4. #19

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    I wouldn't do it. I'd provide subtle tweaks to areas that needed it. I would certainly not mess with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, GL, etc. They and their related characters were fine.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    If a reboot was happening no matter what, I think a full blown reboot would have been the way to go. Don't pussyfoot around and try to hold on to anything, because history as shown that we can't have it both ways. Just leave it with the founding JL members, some of the major reserve members, the fab 5 Teen Titans, and maybe the Doom Patrol and other B/C-list characters to start with, and gradually build up from there. Introduce new characters and lore as well, and keep the iconic costumes.

    Johns on GL and Morrison on Batman were the only things worth keeping from the old universe at that point, but I'd keep them in self-contained books separate from the rebooted universe to let them finish.

    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I agree...this would have been a better approach. In fact, barring a few characters like Superman and WW, this is what they actually did in COIE. And it worked out pretty well that time.
    In hindsight, I don't think we can say it did. Because look at all the problems it caused that haunt the DCU to this very day.

  6. #21
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    In hindsight, I don't think we can say it did. Because look at all the problems it caused that haunt the DCU to this very day.
    Hey, it took until 2003 before it became a really big problem. Thqt being said, yeah i would have preferred another solution than rebboting back in 1986.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Hey, it took until 2003 before it became a really big problem. Thqt being said, yeah i would have preferred another solution than rebboting back in 1986.
    I think the rot set in as early as 1986. It's just that we got some great material around that time (a lot of which would have worked just fine without a reboot) and characters were introduced over this period that all acquired loyal fanbases. I think this distracts people from the fact that organic storytelling across the whole DCU kind of flew out the window. It became impossible to follow the lore from a Point A to Point B anymore because of all the alterations mid-way.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    It was a nice distraction thought, that's far more that i can say for the last 10 years

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    It was a nice distraction thought, that's far more that i can say for the last 10 years
    IDK, I'm still kind of bitter about things like Grayson getting ditched in favor of nostalgia for the Dixon days of Nightwing...

  10. #25
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I think than that has a lot less to do with nostalgia (specially because New Bludhaven isn't that similar to the old one), as more as Seely just not being a very good writter, but i left my feelings for Grayson loud and clear many times, so i'm not going to get there, here.

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I think than that has a lot less to do with nostalgia (specially because New Bludhaven isn't that similar to the old one), as more as Seely just not being a very good writter, but i left my feelings for Grayson loud and clear many times, so i'm not going to get there, here.
    Oooo, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one. I actually think he's making the return to Bludhaven much better than it would otherwise be.

  12. #27
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Certanly. Believe me, i know why people like him, but just as you find the Post-Crisis changes unnapealing, i felt the same about most of what Seely does, his voice for Dick is the thing that turn me off for most of the time.

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    My New Fifty Two Part 2

    13. John Stewart Green Lantern. (Rated T)
    This will be the more traditionally superheroic of the Green Lantern titles, while the majority of modern Green Lantern stories predominantly take place in space, this series will be firmly rooted in Coast City, detailing the origin of John Stewart as Green Lantern. Written by Peter Tomasi with Art by Doug Mahnke.

    14. Barry Allen: The Scarlet Speedster (Rated T)
    In this series, Barry Allen, will explore the multiverse, heavily revolves around Grant Morrison's Multiversity. Written by Warren Ellis art by John Cassady and Darrick Robinson.

    15. Aquaman (Rated T)
    This would essentially be the same as the New Fifty Two Aquaman by Geoff Johns.

    16. Martian Manhunter (Rated T)
    A more humorous take on the Martian Manhunter. Written and Drawn by Kyle Baker.

    17. All Star Hawkman (12 issue miniseries) (Rated M)
    An origin story for Hawkman, detailing his multiple incarnations throughout time. Written by Neil Gaiman and Art by P. Craig Russel.

    18. Cyborg & Beast Boy (Rated E)
    This interpretation of Cyborg, will be more akin to his appearances on the Teen Titans TV show than his appearances in Rebirth and the New Fifty Two.

    19: Starfire (Rated T)
    Given a title, because of the absence of a Titans book, and because of her role in the Justice League. Written by Kelly Sue Deconnick with Art by Frank Cho and Stuart Immonen.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 09-14-2017 at 11:10 PM.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Hey, it took until 2003 before it became a really big problem. Thqt being said, yeah i would have preferred another solution than rebboting back in 1986.
    Hawkman would disagree.

    Anyway, as I have said before, I dont believe in reboots. They never fix anything. They actually make things worse.

    But assuming I had been in Didio's shoes and my WB bosses had told me to do something drastic to increase revenue right now.....

    DC Comics: The Heroes of Tomorrow.

    That's the tagline I'd build the entire company around, from content to distribution to advertising. Literally and figuratively, a new DC looking to the future. Bright, optimistic, hopeful. If I'm in Didio's position, odds are I'm looking at a "I'm fired if I can't turn things around immediately" situation so there's nothing to lose. Go big and take risks.

    Whoever conceptualized, planned, approved, and executed the same-day digital model and the digital-first series would get bonuses and/or promotions. I'd have leaned into that model harder than DC actually did, with a strong advertising campaign through certain channels and social media (where the tweens, teens, and 20-somethings hang out) as well as advertising built into the movies and tv shows (if any were in production by then?). I'd have set at least one digital-first title in the main continuity, just to see how it performed. And early on I'd definitely have tried a crossover between digital-first and print formats.

    I'd have changed the print publication model as well, shifting to a method closer to tv seasons. Each title begins as "Season One." Titles are published on a weekly basis at a cover price of .99 cents. Issues are ten pages each. Each season would have a short, mid-season break to allow creators to keep up. There'd be another, longer break between seasons. Series would be staggered so something new is always coming out each week (except the quarterly fifth week of course, those weeks would be filled in with one-shots by up-and-coming talent).

    A big chunk of creators and editors would have been re-shuffled or fired. These are the people who allowed the company to shrivel, so they don't get the keep their jobs. I'd have looked at creators and administrators with a background in film, television, journalism, and literature (YA novels, kids books, magazines) for my new workforce. I'd also put some real effort into rebuilding some bridges DC had burned with huge names like Waid and Moore. Hopefully my employee roster would end up being made of popular modern creators like Snyder and Ivan Reis, classic names like Waid and Ellis and Gaiman, and people from larger media like Greg Weisman and Brandon Sanderson.

    As for content, instead of rebooting history, which never works, I'd try a time jump. DC tried it with One Year Later, but they failed because they half-assed it and were focused on the short-term gains and stupid changes/gimmicks with no lasting potential like "'Batman's in a relationship.....with LEX LUTHOR??!!'" WHHHAAAT?"

    Instead, I'd build the new status quo as the next logical step in the universe/characters' progression. Nothing done just for shock value. I'll point to the Rebirth Superman status quo as an example of what I'd do; Clark is still Superman, still married to Lois, but they have a kid and don't live in the city anymore. It feels like a natural evolution of 2010 Superman but it's a very different situation. It feels familiar but new, daring but respectful. Batman Inc felt like the same kind of natural next step. That's the tone I'd chase for the entire DCU and my ten year time jump.

    The switch-over would've been done with some huge line-wide Event; something ridiculous and big and Crisis-like, to signal the "end" of post-Crisis continuity and usher in the "new" continuity.

    I'd likely have had the same kind of varied title lineup as the actual reboot did. Image was gaining ground heavily and the rise of the indies was underway so I'd have tried to get a slice of that just like Didio did. Booster, Power Girl, and Zatanna would've kept their books though.

    I'd bring in a small handful of creators (Morrison, Johns, Greg Weisman, Waid, Gaiman) to create a broad-stroke bible for the DCU, with a rough outline of the continuity and the general direction the company wants to go in. This bible would be required reader for every manager, editor, and creator, to ensure everyone is on the same page from the start and the "reboot" is as smooth as possible.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-11-2017 at 07:37 PM.
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  15. #30
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Start totally over for every single property. Yes this would mean losing EVERY legacy generation of characters for a time. They would be introduced but slowly and naturally of the own volition within the new continuity. Dick Grayson would be the earliest entry, but even that I'd wait about six months to a year to introduce him.

    If that were unacceptable, I'd have politely postulated that a reboot isn't what they're looking for and they do something else to get the boost they wanted.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

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