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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
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    For one thing, I'd probably somewhat nerf both Flashes. If Wally and Barry are to coexist I think it would be easier if they have more manageable levels of speed.

  2. #47
    Mighty Member FishyZombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    Exactly. It boggles my mind that people would trust DC to do another reboot when their New 52 reboots failed so fast.
    I think the smartest approach would be to consider all of pre-FP in continuity unless proven otherwise.
    They could keep most of the classic runs and just ignore a lot of their biggest mistakes (Graduation Day, Identity Crisis etc).
    I think the heart of why the new 52 didn't last is in it's name. New 52, New. That's it's selling point, the newness. Seeing retellings of the Justice League forming, everyone's origin is retold with brand new september #0 issue month, see character x meet character y for the first time, tell some coming of age tales. But newness doesn't last, eventually you run out of "firsts" to retell, coming of age tales can't last forever and once the new car smell is gone, your right back to where you were before, only now a bunch of concepts, characters and past stories are off the table. It's no coincidence the highlight of new 52 Superman was Grant Morrison's story of a year one Superman. But after all his "firsts" were covered, the rest of that iteration's existence were spent on unsustainable gimmicks being thrown against the wall to see what stuck, until he was finally mercy killed and writers brought back a good chunk of those classic stories, concepts and characters that supposedly held him back. Why Rebirth has turned out far more successful (imo), for Superman and others is because the histories of these characters are a strength, not a weakness, they just gotta get streamlined every now and then.
    Last edited by FishyZombie; 09-12-2017 at 06:54 PM.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Im guessing it's got to do with the Diamond Deal? Perhaps there's a clause in there somewhere stating that comic publishers can't work with the distributor's competition? But if that's the case, it's a pretty thin definition considering the Earth-1 line bypasses Diamond.
    It would be interesting if a major comic company like DC, Marvel, or Image ditched Diamond and distributed comics like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tA4kKkQUHw

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    We've seen anthology series before and they don't survive in the comics market. But why not distribute and publish it the same way the manga (like Jump) are? You'd think the people eating up Attack on Titan would be all over Wonder Woman or Kamandi, right? All you need to do is put it in a format they're already buying into.
    I don't think there is enough of a market for titles starring non-A-list characters like Blue Beetle or John Constantine or Doom Patrol, or Shade the Changing Girl, or even characters like Batman Beyond and Deathstroke, so I think the best way to handle these B-list characters would be to plop them in a Shonen Jump-esque magazine anthology.
    Last edited by Timothy Hunter; 09-12-2017 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    This sounds like fun. I would start everything from scratch EXCEPT Batman who has been doing it for 6 months (so that the #1 issue of Detective could introduce Robin)

    In some books we'd get full out origin stories and in others we'd get a few pages to set up an origin (Green Lantern for instance, since Secret Origin wasn't too long ago and I think it's great). Just fort shits and gigs, Action and Batman keep their numbering (since I'd like to see them make it to 1000 and it would annoy me more to have them switch back like they did, rather than start at #1) We're gonna wrap up Morrison's Batman and Johns' Green Lantern before the reboot.

    These would be the titles

    Action Comics #905 - Writer: Grant Morrison, Artist: Rags Morales
    Superman #1 - Writer: Keith Giffen, Artist: Kenneth Rocafort
    Detective Comics #882 - Writer: Judd Winnick, Artist: Chris Burnham
    Batman #1 - Writer: Scott Snyder, Artist: Greg Capullo
    Batgirl #1 - Writer: Gail Simone, Artist: J.H. Williams III
    Wonder Woman #1 Writer: Brian Azzarello, Artist: Cliff Chaing (I liked it )
    Green Lantern #1 Writer: Robert Venditti, Artist: Doug Manke
    The Flash #1 Writer: Geoff Johns, Artist: Francis Manapul
    Aquaman #1 Writer: Geoff Johns, Artist: Ivan Reis
    Green Arrow #1 Writer: Jeff Lemire, Artist: Ethan Van Sciver
    Black Canary#1 Not sure on writers and artists, maybe Nicola Scott on art?
    Black Lighting #1 Once again, not as familiar with the character.
    Stormwatch #1 Writer: Paul Cornell, Artist: Alberto Ponticelli

    I wouldn't introduce Teen Titans and Justice League until the second wave. Also on the second wave I'd introduce the classic JSA on Earth 2, and possibly the Freedom Fighters could be on that earth as well. These are just some ideas to throw around.

  5. #50
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    I've always felt DC screwed up with CoIE. The multiple Earths set-up worked. Now I feel it's gotten so messy with so many GL's, Flashes, etc. occupying the same space. So my "event" would be to create separate Earths again. Most of the comics would take place on Earth-1. The GA JSA would travel to the present at the end of WWII (per Per Degaton) so that they would still be in their 20s. Power Girl, Huntress, Etc. would be modern heroes that join.

    CAptain Marvel and company return to Earth-S. LSH returns. I love team up books so I would bring back The Brave and the Bold and DC Comics Presents. I would try to return the League to a similar roster that they had during the satellite era. It seemed to work the best. And I would have a world without superheroes. It would come under threat and eventually a group of superheros would leave their Earths to protect that one.

    Some other titles I would resurrect-The Metal Men, Hawk and Dove, The Seven Soldiers of Victory, The Secret Society of Super-Villains, The All-Star Squadron.
    Last edited by Black Manta; 09-12-2017 at 09:01 PM. Reason: edit

  6. #51
    Incredible Member Darkseid Is's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    I've always felt DC screwed up with CoIE. The multiple Earths set-up worked. Now I feel it's gotten so messy with so many GL's, Flashes, etc. occupying the same space. So my "event" would be to create separate Earths again. Most of the comics would take place on Earth-1. The GA JSA would travel to the present at the end of WWII (per Per Degaton) so that they would still be in their 20s. Power Girl, Huntress, Etc. would be modern heroes that join.

    CAptain Marvel and company return to Earth-S. LSH returns. I love team up books so I would bring back The Brave and the Bold and DC Comics Presents. I would try to return the League to a similar roster that they had during the satelite era. It seemed to work the best. And I would have a world without superheroes. It would come under threat and eventually a group of superheros would leave their Earths to protect that one.
    Could there also be a Captain Marvel on Earth 1? I loved him in Justice League. There's no reason there can't be both, right?

  7. #52
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    No continuity reboot, just a relaunch with new numbering (Action/Detective not included).

    Like Rebirth, the relaunch would start with a massive one-shot titled Justice League: Origins, set "before", and it starts with a retelling of the original formation of the JL with minimal retconning and updated art, along with origins for each of the main JL members, and a preview of the present day League, with its diverse fresh new lineup.

    Have 26 titles, 13 a week, shipped twice a month.

    Week 0: Justice League: Origins

    Week 1/3:
    Superman
    Batman
    Wonder Woman
    Flash
    Green Lantern
    Aquaman
    Cyborg
    Nightwing
    Batgirl
    Swamp Thing
    Hellblazer
    Suicide Squad
    Teen Titans

    Week 2/4:
    Justice League
    Action Comics
    Detective Comics
    Green Lantern Corps
    Green Arrow
    Shazam
    The Atom
    Supergirl
    Batwoman
    Dark Universe
    Animal Man
    The Titans
    Legion of Super Heroes

    The first week of Batman/Superman would include a preview/interview for Detective/Action issue 882/905, celebrating the longevity of the titles and telling readers how they are jumping on points.

    Oh, and maybe call the whole thing...DC Rebirth.
    Last edited by SmokeMonster; 09-12-2017 at 10:48 PM.

  8. #53
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishyZombie View Post
    I think the heart of why the new 52 didn't last is in it's name.
    I firmly believe it was because editorial didn't just drop the ball, they threw it away.

    http://gutterspanels.com/gutters-and...-of-departures
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  9. #54
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    I'd start completely from scratch for all properties (including Batman and Green lantern). Also, avoid flooding the market with too many books and make sure all writers and editors are on the same page on things.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    We had some good stuff in the New 52 mixed in with the crap and mediocre stuff as well. We had some GREAT stuff pre-Crisis, and that was the era that was allegedly so confusing a reboot was needed, even though it is far less confusing then all the iterations that followed it. The continuity as a whole being a complete mess doesn't preclude some great stand alone stuff from emerging, but it also doesn't change the fact that post-Crisis, you can't read the old stuff to the present and expect the narrative to make sense with all the crazy alterations that happen mid-way through. Especially when some parts of it (Batman, GL, Titans, the Flash, the Legion) are continuing on as if nothing ever happened whereas other properties (Superman and Wonder Woman) are getting rebooted entirely, thus rendering any stories where they interacted with the other properties (and there were a LOT of them) only readable with some serious mental gymnastics. How is that fun or easy to immerse yourself in?

    They never should have done it. Maybe the New 52 shouldn't have happened and maybe it didn't help the situation at all, but the current people in charge were only following a pattern and a mess they inherited from other minds.
    Fair enough. There was some confusion but I don't quite think to the scale you're claiming and nothing that couldn't have been fixed with a bit more careful thought. The New 52 people making the same mistakes is not an excuse especially since these are the same people that made the pre Flashpoint universe so terrible.
    begin with.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 09-13-2017 at 04:22 AM.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Hawkman would disagree.**
    20 of 23 still isn't bad


    Far better that 10 of 50 at least

  11. #56
    Incredible Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I would have created 2 lines, the Golden and Silver timeframes.

    He first one would be in status quo, quasi similar to the Silver Age, when Grant Morrison could do whatever weird thing he wants to with Superman, Johns can tell stories about how awesome Barry Allen and Hal Jordan and they can have Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon as Robin and Batgirl, with a *gasp a Batman that is actually in his 20 and things for that style.

    The second one, would be a more Post-Crisis type of world, with many characthers that had taken the role of his mentors and some of the old guard still active but with some significant changes for their status quo, like Superman and Lois being married, this timeline would flow im0n a more fluid way and many permanent changes would not happen.

  12. #57
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    I would restart all of it so everyone was on sort of equal footing from the get go rather than how we got a reboot for everyone save Batman and GL.

    What I would then was to allow the writers to start their books at different times so it doesn't look like superheroes just started to appear en mass on a specific date. I would retain that the 'age of superheroes' begins with Superman's appearance, but that others have existed before this point.
    What changes I would have made to the New 52 as it was:

    -Wonder Woman: Going the movie route, Diana is over a hundred years old and left around the time of the First World War, but has been living and working in relative secrecy because of concerns about how people would perceive her.
    -Flash: I would have Barry and Wally active as the Flash at the same time, Barry was the first Flash and Wally came along 3 years later as a young man (rather than as a kid)
    -Titans: the Fab Five would have existed but it was a short affair, it would be the foundations for a later more permanent team of the Fab Five and the later W/P New Teen Titans
    -Teen Titans: The old Young Justice generation with Tim, Cassandra, Bart and Conner.
    -Young Justice: Damian's generation.
    -Justice League: I'd have them come together over a less massive threat than Darkseid, and I would restore Martian Manhunter and send Cyborg back to the Titans where he belongs. They should interact with the Titans however.
    -JSA: I would either park them on another world or keep them mostly retired, they would have had Diana or Hippolyta on their membershiplist if they are on the same planet.
    -JLD: Would have stuck with Milligans book of horrors rather than Lemire and DeMathies' broad appeal. Less emphasis on Constantine as somekind of linchpin, if he was even a part of it.

  13. #58
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    Honestly, I would've just gone the Ultimate route with the New 52 instead of what they did. With a few rare exceptions (notably Batman and and Azzarello's superlative Wonder Woman run), none of what resulted was at all memorable/good and some characters/teams/properties are still recovering (if they haven't been deemed outright dead at this point).
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  14. #59
    Incredible Member Jovan2013's Avatar
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    Superman, Batman, The Flash and Green Lantern are fine where they are but the rest get some few to major changes.

    Justice League - Cyborg is not a founding member although he could get his powers when Darkseid's invades but the Justice League first enemy was not Darkseid instead it was Despero. Despero seeks for a worthy opponent and he heard of 'The Superman' where his minions keeps on talking about.
    Wonder Woman - Keep her as a demigod, I prefer it more than the clay origin. She could either debut during Despero's arrival to help Superman or start in World War 1 (Also, Themyscira has a different time flow compare to ''Man's World'' and when she returns she saw Superman fighting Despero).
    Aquaman - New 52/Rebirth Aquaman is great but for my personal reasons (or head canon), I always envision him as a descendant of Poseidon because of his royal heritage (there are seven seas with seven royal families and all seven are directly related to the sea god). Also, I would bring back Aquaman's son, and he would be around 10-11 years old.
    Speed Force - A book which explore speedsters travelling around the multiverse. The speedsters face a group of dark speedsters known as 'The Legion of Zoom'.
    Cyborg - I would have him travel to the fourth world where he has adventure on New Genesis, hang out with the Forever People and a philosophical journey of what its like to be a New God.
    Justice League of America - I like the book but I wish Batman and Black Canary wasn't on the team, plus before the unveiled the JLA roster I always would like to see heroes from the CW shows to become a team. JLA Roster: Supergirl (adult instead of a teenage girl), Shazam, The Atom, Firestorm, Vixen, The Ray, Green Arrow and Hawkgirl.
    Justice Society of America - The JSA has fought evil during the WWII, 50's and 60's. If it's too far then it could be placed in the 70's.
    Justice League Dark: I would bring this book back and this would be the premier magical team. Roster: Constantine, Zatanna, Deadman, Etrigan the Demon and Madame Xanadu with Swamp Thing as an ally.
    Titans: Slightly older version of the New Teen Titans. Wally West becomes an occasional character because of his adventures in the multiverse.
    Teen Titans: YJ4 with Aqualad, Miss Martian, Blue Beetle, Traci 13 and Artemis (Age: 17-19, just to age them up a little, Bart returns being 'Impulse' and Connor calls himself 'Scion').
    Young Justice: Roster- Robin, Red Arrow, Superboy, Kid Flash and a new Wonder Girl.
    Batgirl: Barbara was Oracle for a very long time (7 years or so) compare to the New 52 but Ra's found out about Batman's secret assistant so they kidnapped her all the way up to Nanda Parbat and put her legs in the Lazarus Pits.
    Animal Man, Hawk & Dove and Angel & Ape - All three should have the Young Animal treatment.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Fair enough. There was some confusion but I don't quite think to the scale you're claiming and nothing that couldn't have been fixed with a bit more careful thought. The New 52 people making the same mistakes is not an excuse especially since these are the same people that made the pre Flashpoint universe so terrible.
    begin with.
    I don't think the mistakes of the New 52 should be excused either; they definitely should have looked at all the crap that had it's roots with Crisis and later events like Zero Hour and Infinite Crisis, and just gone all out with it and took things slower and more methodically.

    As for following events immediately post-Crisis, maybe it was easier as it was coming out. Looking at it as a younger reader who didn't experience most of it and reading about well after the fact, I just can't wrap my ahead around how any of it was necessary or a good idea. Progressing the universe as it was pre-1986 wasn't possible, and many of the better developments from the 80s/90s could have happened anyway, with less of a shaky foundation.

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