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  1. #1
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Default We now know why Mark Doyle left as Batman editor

    Tom King desiring David Finch to draw "the proposal" caused a big fight that ultimately led to Jamie Rich replacing Mark Doyle.

    I don't often make topics out of these backroom DC things, but it's the Batman editor spot and it's interesting how the interplay between the writers and editors works, apparently some writers can wield some real power (which I knew) and do go out of their way to actually use it / put their foot down (which I don't know often that happens or not).
    TOM KING: “Batman #24, there are two editors listed for that book, we switched editors half way though… it’s not normal, it’s very weird.

    I got in a big fight with my editor about it, an editor I love, Mark Doyle, he wanted to bring in an artist on it who had not worked on the book before, I knew it was this big moment, Batman proposing to Catwoman, you’re going to turn on Twitter there it’s going to be that stupid image, I want this to be an image with David, I want him to draw this issue. ‘No, no, David’s too busy going on vacation’, just call him, We got in a big fight over it, and in the end we switched editors and got David and that’s how we brought Jamie Rich on the book.

    That’s something I could not do earlier in my career, say I’m putting my foot down, that’s something you can only say when you’ve had a lot of success…. When you first come in you have no power at all, you are at the whim of your editors who are in control of whether you eat this day.”
    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/09...inch-proposal/
    Thank you America for voting for change.

  2. #2
    Spectacular Member CryNotWolf's Avatar
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    On one hand, I hate Finch's art would've loved to see it drawn by a more stylish artist...

    But on the other hand, it's King's story to tell and he hand-picked Finch to draw it, I believe strongly that King has the right to choose who best to draw his book. So while I very much disagree with his choice of artist, I respect his decision to stand by his backing of Finch.

  3. #3
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryNotWolf View Post
    But on the other hand, it's King's story to tell and he hand-picked Finch to draw it, I believe strongly that King has the right to choose who best to draw his book. So while I very much disagree with his choice of artist, I respect his decision to stand by his backing of Finch.
    It's interesting that you take that opinion because I'm not so sure I agree. I think, traditionally, the editor is more the supervisor, the ranking decisionmaker on such creative assignments (unless contracts say otherwise).

    I think Finch was the right enough pick (and I'm not always a fan of his), I think King was in the right to express his preference, but I don't know if this writer's veto (the putting his foot down) is the best for all situations. I'm sure present/former editors would probably defend Mark and criticize the precedent King perhaps creates here. What if King wanted some far from DC house style artist? Or someone really expensive? I guess King can say that his preference was within reason, within the DC stable of writers, and so his opinion should be accepted, but..is that enough to vindicate him here? I don't know. Maybe if Scott Snyder was afforded this level of control, then it makes sense for King to simply ask the same.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 09-11-2017 at 08:02 AM.
    Thank you America for voting for change.

  4. #4
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm with Mark Doyle on this.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  5. #5
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Revealing that he led to Doyle leaving over Finch of all people is NOT going to endear King to a lot of folks.

  6. #6
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Hmm, I can see both sides here. I can understand wanting a huge, potentially memorable, moment be done by the marquee artist and one of his main collaborators on this book. At the same time Doyle's job is to make sure the wheels turn smoothly.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 09-11-2017 at 08:16 AM.

  7. #7
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    I just can't understand that a writer wants Finch anywhere near his stories.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I never expected King had enough sway at this point to be able to stand firm on the artist he wants to draw his stories, though it sounds like it was just the mutual breakup between him and Doyle that led to Finch still drawing it.

    I wonder which artist Doyle wanted to bring in? I think Finch did a good job with the proposal moment though I'm curious who else might've gotten the chance to depict it.

  9. #9
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder which artist Doyle wanted to bring in? I think Finch did a good job with the proposal moment though I'm curious who else might've gotten the chance to depict it.
    Yeah, I think that's a key factor we don't know in weighing all this. What if Mark's pick was a relatively big name popular artist too? Maybe just short of Finch level, but near it.
    Thank you America for voting for change.

  10. #10
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    That artist still wouldn't be one of his main partners on the book. This was a big moment in their run that was potentially gonna be displayed around.

  11. #11
    Fantastic Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Even though I think Finch did a decent job with the proposal scene, I don't think it was worth the fuss that King obviously kicked up about it. I wonder who the editor originally wanted? Maybe knowing that would give more perspective as to why King went this far with his choice.

  12. #12
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    I think it would have been better without the focus on Selina's breasts, without selina's broken spine, and above all, with at least one of them showing some kind of emotion on their face.

    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  13. #13
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I think it would have been better without the focus on Selina's breasts, without selina's broken spine, and above all, with at least one of them showing some kind of emotion on their face.

    I think this looks nice .

    But to each their own.

    Didn't Clay Mann do some of the art for that issue? I wonder if he's the artist Doyle wanted?

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    I think it would have been better without the focus on Selina's breasts, without selina's broken spine, and above all, with at least one of them showing some kind of emotion on their face.
    Oh jeez. I mean, I did recall the pros of this scene being the nice simple staging of the characters and city background along with the bat signal.

    But looking at it again, Selina looks less 'typical female spine TNA pose' and more monstrous. Thats a Liefeld waist right there. Plus, yeah, the lack of facial reaction is kinda disappointing. Never mind, I retract my statement of this being decent. This was sub par, the editor was right to disagree.

  15. #15
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I thought that was just conveying her limber figure .

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