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  1. #316
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillanerd View Post
    Oh man! That's what I get for trying to copy and paste from Word and it selects the wrong thing. Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention, my good sir.

    EDIT: Okay, all fixed now. Thanks again for pointing that out, WL.
    No prob.

    I do a lot of copying and pasting with my own webwork, so I know how easy it is for stuff like that to happen.

  2. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Absolutely.

    I read a lot of DC books and I really enjoy Rebirth (i also really enjoyed DC You but that's a story for another day). I want DC to succeed because as a fan I simply want to have a choice. The direct market (not the industry necessarily) need both companies to be as successful as possible. But in all this, I still strongly feel that Rebirth was a little too drastic on DCs part and I'm actually very glad to hear they are expanding their line after Metal.

    As I said before, the direct market needs tons of Batman books (and X-men, Superman, Justice League Spider-man and Wolverine books) the I think greater variety is better for the general health of the industry. The whole Scholastic deal and focused marketing to younger audiences is definitely a step in the right direction because bringing people into the industry should be the goal of Marvel and DC. Its also worth noting that retailers have stated that a lot of the folks buying the Star Wars books aren't traditional comic book fans and a lot of them are new customers, that's why I find it incredulous that people are removing the books from the discussion when they are significant for many different reasons.

    I feel that more should be done to bring in the non-traditional audience in and DCs Rebirth pretty much gave up on this (which was one of the major goals of the new 52).Not everyone wants to read Batman or Superman (or X-men or Spider-man for that matter, some people want to read Harley Quinn and/or Ms Marvel or even Starfire.

    Agreed generally

    I loved dc you much more than new 52 in fact

    I think rebirth has more to it that just tradition but it has an old tone feel in many ways

    Which for superheros I think is mostly a good think

    Their young animals and vertigo are strong imo

    Whilst marvel has shown it's products diverse nature more eminently I think dc has more than some give it credit for but it is playing catch up there

    That said in my 2 lcs I see much more marvel left on the shelf than dc but that could just be the staff get dc orders more correct

    Certainly the star wars sells strongly but s empire apparently was poorly received numbers wise - but I think they just over ordered if they were being honest

    Generations has done fantastically well in both shops and I think lines of one shots seem to be attractive at the moment

    Like I said

    Both strong is better for everyone

  3. #318
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punjabi_Hitman View Post
    Uhh what? Where did I say they were being sold? I was just pointing out hypotheticals of what could happen if shareholders weren't happy with a sector of the corporation. I never insisted anything.
    Your hyperphetical suggested such a scenario.

  4. #319
    Fantastic Member QBall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilderkin View Post
    Agreed generally

    I loved dc you much more than new 52 in fact

    I think rebirth has more to it that just tradition but it has an old tone feel in many ways

    Which for superheros I think is mostly a good think

    Their young animals and vertigo are strong imo

    Whilst marvel has shown it's products diverse nature more eminently I think dc has more than some give it credit for but it is playing catch up there

    That said in my 2 lcs I see much more marvel left on the shelf than dc but that could just be the staff get dc orders more correct

    Certainly the star wars sells strongly but s empire apparently was poorly received numbers wise - but I think they just over ordered if they were being honest

    Generations has done fantastically well in both shops and I think lines of one shots seem to be attractive at the moment

    Like I said

    Both strong is better for everyone
    There's diversity and diversity though.

    IMHO Marvel's diversity tends to be focusing on more minority exposure solely within their superhero universe. DC's diversity tends to be both minority exposure within their superhero universe and of different genres across their publishing line.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    Your hypothetical is completely absurd.

    If Disney wasn't happy with the money Marvel was making, steps would be taken to change the direction of the company. They would not sell it or shut it down.
    They're never going to sell it, they make too much money on the movie side of things. But if the comics side of things just keeps getting worse and worse I could easily see them getting out of the comics game and just licensing out the characters to others. It's already what they do with video games.

  6. #321
    Spectacular Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    If Disney wasn't happy with the money Marvel was making, steps would be taken to change the direction of the company. They would not sell it or shut it down.
    Disney likely sees Marvel Comics as research & development more than anything. Millions are spent by studios buying spec scripts, writers programs and talent development. The comics division is a separate entity and has to report their own profits or losses, but the ultimate gain for Disney is long terms. When little known comics like Big Hero 6 and GoTG turn into profits for the studio years later, they don't necessarily see initial sales as the deciding factor. Keeping talent happy is also considered. Studios greenlight movies they know aren't going to turn a profit because they want to keep an actor or director happy doing a vanity project. The cost to keep a comic going is far less.

  7. #322
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    They're never going to sell it, they make too much money on the movie side of things. But if the comics side of things just keeps getting worse and worse I could easily see them getting out of the comics game and just licensing out the characters to others. It's already what they do with video games.
    That would be worse because you're basically forcing a reboot of the entire marvel 616 comic universe canon and erasing all that history and tearing apart the shared universe and relationships and history that the comics took decades to build and develop, no good can come of that at all.

    And the fan backlash would be catastrophic to say the least.
    Last edited by Ianbarreilles; 09-13-2017 at 07:25 PM.

  8. #323
    Mighty Member nnelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Of Atlantis View Post
    Shame to see Iron Fist and Luke Cage selling 17k and 12k respectively. Been an incredible read.

    What's the deal with Marvel's better quality books not selling well? And more importantly, how does Marvel fix this?
    They double ship some titles that get chosen over other titles and the price. They also publish too many titles. Iron Fist is great. I hope it doesn't get canceled.

  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    That would be worse because you're basically forcing a reboot of the entire marvel 616 comic universe canon and erasing all that history and tearing apart the shared universe and relationships and history that the comics took decades to build and develop, no good can come of that at all.

    And the fan backlash would be catastrophic to say the least.
    Worse then not having anything?

    If they licensed shit out, there's nothing saying anyone would have to reboot anything. And let's not act like the 616 doesn't get soft reboots all the time. There's no decades of built up history. Iron Man isn't working from Tales of Suspense 39; is it even working from Warren Ellis's Extremis anymore, has his origin been updated since then? Although it would be a perfect opportunity to drop whatever sucks, take characters back to basics.

  10. #325
    Astonishing Member Ianbarreilles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    Worse then not having anything?

    If they licensed shit out, there's nothing saying anyone would have to reboot anything. And let's not act like the 616 doesn't get soft reboots all the time. There's no decades of built up history. Iron Man isn't working from Tales of Suspense 39; is it even working from Warren Ellis's Extremis anymore, has his origin been updated since then? Although it would be a perfect opportunity to drop whatever sucks, take characters back to basics.
    No it would be a mistake and yes marvel would be forced to reboot since basically every single character within the main marvel 616 comic universe would no longer be interconnected and sharing the same universe with each other.

    So no no no that would be the biggest mistake they would ever make, and marvel has never rebooted a reboot is the idea that what came before never happened and was erased and is no longer canon and that the history that the publisher and it's writers built and developed for decades was suddenly erased from contunity and everything is starting from scratch, that's a reboot and no marvel has never soft rebooted either even after heroes reborn/return happened a lot of stories or I should say basically all the stories and the history and character development that came with those stories that happened years and decades before heroes reborn/return were still very much canon same thing with the ending of secret wars (2015) everything that came before happened there was no reboot.

    And lastly it's not worse then not having anything because I don't believe that Disney is that worried about how marvel's comic publishing devision is doing and yes it's not in the best shape but they're not going to shut it down if that was the case they would've cancelled marvel legacy a long time ago or simply wouldn't of announced marvel legacy at all back when they first did and they would've ended secret empire with a major reboot.
    Last edited by Ianbarreilles; 09-13-2017 at 09:42 PM.

  11. #326
    Astonishing Member El_Gato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    I know. I'm very curious to see if DC ever cancels Cyborg and Blue Beetle, or if they'll put a new creative team or something on them. It's been more than a year now.. it's time for DC to start thinking about dumping some of these. I'm sure we'll get an announcement of cancellations when the Dark Matter books get solicited.
    Blue Beetle is getting a new creative team in October (issue 14) but Cyborg still has the same one. I think DC is going to keep them going until they hit 24 issues (all the lower selling titles) as there was a 2 year plan in place for all the Rebirth titles. After that they'll likely be cancelled or retooled. Hopefully its the latter and not the former because DC having 3 Latino led titles is pretty awesome!! (Green Lanterns, Blue Beetle, and Sideways).
    NOT REMOVING UNTIL
    -Blue Beetle joins the Teen Titans
    -Static joins the Teen Titans
    -We get Young Justice Rebirth

  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ianbarreilles View Post
    No it would be a mistake and yes marvel would be forced to reboot since basically every single character within the main marvel 616 comic universe would no longer be interconnected and sharing the same universe with each other.
    That wouldn't mean they'd have to reboot. The Marvel universe didn't start over when Godzilla, ROM, and Conan left. Someone like Darkhorse could pick up the rights to the Avengers and still make references to past Avengers stories. Although rebooting isn't a bad idea at this point given the mess it's become. They should have used Secret Wars to start over, now everything is an even bigger mess than before.

    So no no no that would be the biggest mistake they would ever make, and marvel has never rebooted a reboot is the idea that what came before never happened and was erased and is no longer canon and that the history that the publisher and it's writers built and developed for decades was suddenly erased from contunity and everything is starting from scratch, that's a reboot and no marvel has never soft rebooted either even after heroes reborn/return happened a lot of stories or I should say basically all the stories and the history and character development that came with those stories that happened years and decades before heroes reborn/return were still very much canon same thing with the ending of secret wars (2015) everything that came before happened there was no reboot.
    Yeah, I know what a reboot is. Marvel soft reboots their universe all the time. Iron Man Extremis was a soft reboot of Iron Man, it tells you that old origin he had isn't his origin, this new thing is. The new Luke Cage comic does the same thing, it gives you a new origin that replaces the old. Now it's not a hard reboot like after Infinity Crisis, one that says we're starting totally anew, but it's a reboot none the less.

    The Marvel Universe doesn't really have decades of history. It's got a weird wonky sliding timeline where past events kind of happened, but they didn't happen like the actual comic, or maybe they happened totally differently or didn't happen at all depending on what someone says later. It's less like decades of history and more like references points. And there isn't decades of character development, characters randomly become totally new characters with the same name all the time.

    And lastly it's not worse then not having anything because I don't believe that Disney is that worried about how marvel's comic publishing devision is doing and yes it's not in the best shape but they're not going to shut it down if that was the case they would've cancelled marvel legacy a long time ago or simply wouldn't of announced marvel legacy at all back when they first did and they would've ended secret empire with a major reboot.
    You never know, it wasn't too long ago that Disney killed its video games division, and that was actually doing well, just not as well as they'd originally projected. If numbers just keep going lower and lower, there could come a time when they see the comic book publishing wing of their movie studio as pointless.

  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    Disney likely sees Marvel Comics as research & development more than anything. Millions are spent by studios buying spec scripts, writers programs and talent development. The comics division is a separate entity and has to report their own profits or losses, but the ultimate gain for Disney is long terms. When little known comics like Big Hero 6 and GoTG turn into profits for the studio years later, they don't necessarily see initial sales as the deciding factor. Keeping talent happy is also considered. Studios greenlight movies they know aren't going to turn a profit because they want to keep an actor or director happy doing a vanity project. The cost to keep a comic going is far less.
    Maybe, but it doesn't even seem good for that anymore. Nobody is turning Civil War 2 or Secret Empire into a movie. Since 2015, the only comics that I can think of that were good enough to be worked into a movie are probably Secret Wars Weirdworld, Secret Wars Where Monsters Dwell (which is basically an Evil Dead thing), Vision (which is American Beauty with robots), and maybe that Dr. Strange comic where he's fighting an evil Superman that's out to destroy all magic.

    Disney has decades of old Marvel comics to pull from, they don't really need a Marvel movies workshop if that's all they're keeping the comics around for, especially one that is useless as that now.

  14. #329
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QBall View Post
    There's diversity and diversity though.

    IMHO Marvel's diversity tends to be focusing on more minority exposure solely within their superhero universe. DC's diversity tends to be both minority exposure within their superhero universe and of different genres across their publishing line.
    The diversity that actually matters is the one that allows solo books about diverse characters. Supporting characters, side-kicks, minor members of teams or clearly secondary heroes just won't cut it. I may be wrong, because I don't read DC much, but I haven't spotted a wide range of solo books attempted at DC that try anything approximating this.

  15. #330
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Za Waldo View Post
    Maybe, but it doesn't even seem good for that anymore. Nobody is turning Civil War 2 or Secret Empire into a movie. Since 2015, the only comics that I can think of that were good enough to be worked into a movie are probably Secret Wars Weirdworld, Secret Wars Where Monsters Dwell (which is basically an Evil Dead thing), Vision (which is American Beauty with robots), and maybe that Dr. Strange comic where he's fighting an evil Superman that's out to destroy all magic.

    Disney has decades of old Marvel comics to pull from, they don't really need a Marvel movies workshop if that's all they're keeping the comics around for, especially one that is useless as that now.
    If you look carefully, you will see Marvel shifted towards a creator focused policy not long after Disney bought them. This was at-once subtle and radical. If one wanted to be cynical one could point out that this shift was a move from a publisher supporting toy sales, to one supporting future movies. It wasn't this simple or this cynical, but the creative spark that led us to the movies we are watching, that of the early days of Marvel, is a built-in part of this new strategy. Mark my words, Ms. Marvel will be a major media property when the time is right.

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