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  1. #361
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouse mouse View Post
    I'm quite surprised at how low Defenders is on the chart, both in rank and sales. Bendis doesn't seem to be the big draw he once was with only one of his books ranking higher than #70 in the charts. I remember reading that Marvel had something big planned for it's street level characters but they're not really catching on, even with the popularity of the netflix series. The Luke Cage numbers are awful!
    I think the fact that they have a family of books instead of just one Defenders series likely hurts sales. Most folks don't have unlimited funds to spend on comics.

    Jessica Jones was released much earlier so it's already established and has its regular readers. If it debuted at the same time as Iron Fist, Luke Cage and Defenders, it probably wouldn't be doing as well. Mind, it seems to me Defenders found its floor quite quickly. Based on unit vs dollar rankings, #2-3 appear to be overshipped. I calculated estimated sales without overshipping is 31K each for both which is the same as #4.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 09-15-2017 at 05:29 PM.
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  2. #362
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I would like to see books like Monsters Unleashed be sent to digital at a slightly lower price other than be outright cancelled. I think that would help spur a move to the digital format and give some books a chance to breath out side the direct market.
    Agreed. The thing is even books that only sell 10-15K copies as single issues make money for Marvel. Mind, not a lot of money but enough to pay standard rates for the entire creative team, printing costs and distribution so they're self-sufficient at the very least. Reckon that's why Marvel hasn't felt the urgency to test digital first until now.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 09-15-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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  3. #363
    Incredible Member crimsonspider89's Avatar
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    Anyone who claims digital is a savior. Is wrong, here is why:

    IMG_0410.jpg

    The digital is mostly unknown, and overpriced.

    The market is still geared toward the direct market.

    Also checked scholastic.com and checked best sellers and upcoming fall 2017 book fair catalog for elementary kids an checking the middle school and saw no mention of any Marvel comics. I even searched the titles mentioned and got nothing. Did get DC Super Hero Girls and Batman.


    Marvel is maintaining top sales through constant events, relaunches, Star Wars.

    The sales have massive fall offs over time. That is where the problem is.

    Spidey is supposed to have sales on par with Batman but his are about half of what Batman's are.

    Also SE had sales only better than AXIS which was just Remender goofing off due to the situation that led to AXIS.

  4. #364
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    My first post in this thread. The numbers I've seen are shocking. But given the fact that my LCS and other book stores near me have closed in the passed few years, I can't say I'm completely surprised. These poor sales are the result of a number of factors. But Marvel isn't helping themselves with their business strategy.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post

    Also checked scholastic.com and checked best sellers and upcoming fall 2017 book fair catalog for elementary kids an checking the middle school and saw no mention of any Marvel comics. I even searched the titles mentioned and got nothing. Did get DC Super Hero Girls and Batman.

    Yet I found Moon Girl

    http://www.scholastic.com/bookfairs/...devil-dinosaur

    http://www.scholastic.com/parents/bo...vil-dinosaur-1

    Squirrel Girl says HI

    http://www.scholastic.com/parents/book/squirrel-power

    As does Ms Marvel

    http://www.scholastic.com/parents/bo...generation-why

    As does Miles Morales

    http://www.scholastic.com/parents/book/miles-morales

    And some guy named Static

    Book fair flyers don't list every book that they sell for some reason.

    Also there are products that get sold that if you don't hold certain accounts-we don't get to see. You have to log in or something like that. And since we are talking about a huge company they do have smaller divisions so I wouldn't be shock if the rest of the comic related books are listed somewhere else.

    It just seem funny Archie, Peanuts, IDW and others are MIA on that site. Especially Archie & IDW with who they have.

  6. #366
    Incredible Member crimsonspider89's Avatar
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    Now click on best seller portion and search.

    What the #1 being present but not on best seller means it isn't a top seller which means Scholastic only ordered #1's and they didn't sell enough.

    Unless you saw more than #1s?

  7. #367
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post
    Now click on best seller portion and search.

    What the #1 being present but not on best seller means it isn't a top seller which means Scholastic only ordered #1's and they didn't sell enough.

    Unless you saw more than #1s?
    Why do you perceive this as important? Exactly which volumes sell is not the issue. The fact that Scolastic purchased some trades and some compiled comics in large numbers is the fact many of us have been pointing out. Scolastic's strategy is not that of a standard retailer. They tested the market with some Marvel books they considered applicable to their audience, and it seems they continue to do this. Marvel have zero control over what Scholastic will choose to buy, other than to continue with their ongoing strategy to produce books for a wide audience.

    I have been paying attention to first hand evidence in these forums, and at least two people have confirmed that books not on their online catalogue have been selling through Scolastic fairs. That confirms the offerings in their catalog or online are not reflective of what they sell in fairs, but instead reflect their current back warehouse stock (things no longer on the tables of a book fair) and their marketing strategy (things they want to sell that month via their catalogue, or use to get you through the door at a book fair).

    Getting actual data from Scolastic is impossible. We really don't know which books they have bought and which sell. What we do know is how successful they are as a seller and publisher of TPBs. They outsell every other comic book company by some margin.

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post
    Anyone who claims digital is a savior. Is wrong, here is why:
    I think you are missing something if you don't see the fact that is most apparent from that set of charts. The overall market grew and digital grew in proportion to that market. That means Digital is established and has a place. The thing that sticks out is that floppies are both growing in real terms, but slipping in proportion to the overall market. Industry watchers are expecting that real term growth to halt or reverse this year, but digital will probably hold its place.

    It is graphic novels that are the bar to watch. They represent one of only a couple of sectors that are growing in the book market, the other notable one being young adult fiction. Much of this growth has very little to do with Marvel or DC.

    The digital is mostly unknown, and overpriced.
    Again if you pay attention to the digital market you may notice that the price line that the big two have held for so long, has begun to erode. Amazon with the consent of the publishers, have begun to move into a more aggressive pricing structure for digital trades, and I for one have taken advantage of this quite a few times. They have also convinced Marvel into their subscription model, and in general digital is a place of innovation right now.

    From anecdotal evidence, MU subscibers have also increased this year too. The temporary removal of digital copies in floppies had quite a few high profile bloggers and podcasters revisiting MU and they were universally struck by how much the offering has expanded, and how the apps have improved. That may have produced a spike of interest. It seems quite a few of us on this forum subscribe, it is almost a no-brainier to subscribe if you follow more than a handful of books from Marvel.

    The market is still geared toward the direct market.
    Yes and no. Yes the direct market is still responsible for the vast majority of floppy sales, Marvel and DC have a vested interest in keeping that channel afloat. No, not every book is aimed at the direct market.

    We are also seeing an interesting phenomenon of large, trade-focused stores that sell books from both the book channel and from the direct market. This means not every book you see on the shelf in a large comic store is actually fulfilled through Diamond. This may be an indication that the Direct Market is not serving the needs of the stores, and Marvel seem to be shifting their strategy in an attempt to strengthen that market. This year's overall direct market sales (not reflected in the charts you provide) have taken a hit, and every company in that market is feeling the pinch. Nobody wants to see the bubble burst like it did in the nineties, which took out three quarters of the retail market in a three to four year period.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-17-2017 at 04:01 AM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post
    Anyone who claims digital is a savior. Is wrong, here is why:

    The digital is mostly unknown, and overpriced.

    The market is still geared toward the direct market.

    Also checked scholastic.com and checked best sellers and upcoming fall 2017 book fair catalog for elementary kids an checking the middle school and saw no mention of any Marvel comics. I even searched the titles mentioned and got nothing. Did get DC Super Hero Girls and Batman.


    Marvel is maintaining top sales through constant events, relaunches, Star Wars.

    The sales have massive fall offs over time. That is where the problem is.

    Spidey is supposed to have sales on par with Batman but his are about half of what Batman's are.

    Also SE had sales only better than AXIS which was just Remender goofing off due to the situation that led to AXIS.
    But Marvel is beating DC, therefore everything's dandy!

    Honestly though, those charts are illuminating. It's nice to see that comics are incrementally growing every year, and really not that surprising that digital sales haven't gone anywhere since 2014 (if these charts are to be believed).

    Also, you're 100% right when you say digital comics are overpriced. It's absolutely ridiculous that they'e priced the same as floppies.

  9. #369
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    But Marvel is beating DC, therefore everything's dandy!

    Honestly though, those charts are illuminating. It's nice to see that comics are incrementally growing every year, and really not that surprising that digital sales haven't gone anywhere since 2014 (if these charts are to be believed).

    Also, you're 100% right when you say digital comics are overpriced. It's absolutely ridiculous that they'e priced the same as floppies.
    I wonder though, if that is really as good as it looks.

    The immediate thought is 'oh, it went up, must be more readers reading' but when you start dissecting it, the jump is minimal and can likely be explained due to price rises and double shipping on Rebirth titles, plus where the real explosion is - in the collected edition market
    I will raise my throne above the Stars of God

  10. #370
    Astonishing Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    I wonder though, if that is really as good as it looks.

    The immediate thought is 'oh, it went up, must be more readers reading' but when you start dissecting it, the jump is minimal and can likely be explained due to price rises and double shipping on Rebirth titles, plus where the real explosion is - in the collected edition market
    And bear in mind, as comic readers we see the graphic novel increases as a sign that collected books are selling well. In truth this is not the full story. Those charts include the book channel sales, and the top sellers in that channel are not collected floppies but adaptations of teenage and younger novels, with the best selling superheroes being in 'My Hero Academia'. A few evergreen titles from DC get into the heights of those charts, a few Star Wars books, and a few Image books aimed at a younger audience. Hardly any new traditional superhero material makes any impact on the graphic novel charts.

    The current winner in the book channel is Viz Media.

    See August's book channel charts compiled by ICv2:
    https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/...graphic-novels

    It is also frequently illuminating to keep an eye on which graphic novels sell to teens and young adults via Amazon. Their categories are always a little suspect and the hourly update means the charts are susceptible to marketing and price changes, but many of the books in this list are unlikely to be talked about in forums like this:
    https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-..._13922476011_1

    Steady sellers in this chart are books like This One Summer and Nimona, and of course a whole lot of Viz Media books.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 09-17-2017 at 05:19 AM.

  11. #371
    Astonishing Member rui no onna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFerg714 View Post
    But Marvel is beating DC, therefore everything's dandy!

    Honestly though, those charts are illuminating. It's nice to see that comics are incrementally growing every year, and really not that surprising that digital sales haven't gone anywhere since 2014 (if these charts are to be believed).

    Also, you're 100% right when you say digital comics are overpriced. It's absolutely ridiculous that they'e priced the same as floppies.
    The caveat with digital catalog sales (particularly for those purchasing in-app on iOS devices) is the publisher is just trading in Diamond+comic shops for Amazon/comiXology (plus Apple for in-app).

    I believe print comics break down to roughly: 40%/10%/50% publisher/Diamond/retailer

    comiXology breaks down to: 50%/50% publisher/comiXology or 35%/35%/30% publisher/comiXology/Apple

    They do save printing cost but at DC and Marvel's volume that's probably just around 5-10% of cover price. I think DC's pricing of $3.99 print, $2.99 digital seems quite fair for new releases.

    Mind, while those charts do show us digital catalog sales, it doesn't include subscription services nor libraries. Personally, I think Netflix-style like Marvel Unlimited is where things are headed eventually.
    Last edited by rui no onna; 09-17-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    I would like to see books like Monsters Unleashed be sent to digital at a slightly lower price other than be outright cancelled. I think that would help spur a move to the digital format and give some books a chance to breath out side the direct market.
    Yeah, probably should've done that with Unstoppable Wasp, and if Moon Girl really is being kept afloat by digital, trades, and Scholastic, then that's another which could end up going that route.

  13. #373
    Astonishing Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonspider89 View Post
    Anyone who claims digital is a savior. Is wrong, here is why:

    IMG_0410.jpg

    The digital is mostly unknown, and overpriced.

    The market is still geared toward the direct market.

    Also checked scholastic.com and checked best sellers and upcoming fall 2017 book fair catalog for elementary kids an checking the middle school and saw no mention of any Marvel comics. I even searched the titles mentioned and got nothing. Did get DC Super Hero Girls and Batman.


    Marvel is maintaining top sales through constant events, relaunches, Star Wars.

    The sales have massive fall offs over time. That is where the problem is.

    Spidey is supposed to have sales on par with Batman but his are about half of what Batman's are.

    Also SE had sales only better than AXIS which was just Remender goofing off due to the situation that led to AXIS.
    The bolded portion is key, its unknown right now. If Marvel made a big announcement, saying that they are going to push comics to digital, lower selling books will go digital and have a slight price drop, as well as maybe even some deals for purchasing books digital (bundle deals essentially) and promoted that, there would be a big jump in the value of digital comics, especially in this day where the majority of people have smart phones, and ordering something is just a button click away. Of course right at the moment something that isn't being really promoted isn't going to be as big as DM, but with simply adjusting to make it known and promoted, those numbers will easily climb

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