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  1. #31
    Fantastic Member sustainentropy's Avatar
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    Oz seems like he's been held against his will and tortured somewhat. A lifetime worth of brainwashing and torture is bound to affect a character's original motivations. It's likely that Manhattan whisked him away and proceeded to corrupt him. Manhattan's goal here seemed to have been to target the parents of Superman and Batman to help him push them out of wanting to be heroes anymore.

    We know from an interview released after "The Button" crossover that it was always Manhattan's intention that Thomas Wayne would suggest to his son to stop being Batman. That's why he sent Batman and Flash back to to the Flashpoint reality. His tactic here seems to be to have Oz remove Clark's faith in humanity and in turn Jor El's intention for Clark to lead the species by example. Manhattan wants Clark to lose faith in humanity as a whole (with the exception of Lois and Jon), thus questioning his role as Superman.

  2. #32
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Now that if we look back, you might say that Mr Oz destroyed Kents monemunts out of either envy or disgust that these filthy humans raised such a weak person.

    But most importantly now, what he might possibly has to say to Lois Lane? Is she an exception? Why would he care about Jon too since he is mixed with this "cesspool"?

  3. #33
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Yeah, I really wouldn't say that this is disappointing considering it's a last page reveal of the first chapter of the story. I'm willing to bet we'll get enough exposition to explain his previous appearances. Like others I didn't really think about how his eye was usually obscured. Also to note is how he's not the same Jor El we've seen for this Superman.

    Otherwise, glad I jumped on this issue quick. It's gonna be a big one, and did rather well with being about old school Superman for the most part.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    It was a good issue.
    -Nice to see Superman help in more down to Earth problems and not just fighting super villains.
    -Good to see the Daily Planet Staff.
    -The scene at the Daily Planet was like returning home. Now Jon and the marriage appears to be the part of Superman for real.
    -Looking forward to the story of Mr. Oz

    spoilers:
    Feels like an Empire Strikes Back knockoff. Imagine this with Marlon Brando and Christopher Reeve. People would say Star Wars ripped it off. I am not sure about Mr. Oz being completely evil. Are his followers being mind-controlled? Or are they are like a cult? Even then they are generally acting as catalysts. There is a possibility to redeem Jor-El. Anyway it is a huge change to Superman mythos. I don't think Mr. Oz is going away anytime soon.
    end of spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    Now that if we look back, you might say that Mr Oz destroyed Kents monemunts out of either envy or disgust that these filthy humans raised such a weak person.

    But most importantly now, what he might possibly has to say to Lois Lane? Is she an exception? Why would he care about Jon too since he is mixed with this "cesspool"?
    spoilers:
    Jon and Lois are family. Lois is his daughter in law and Jon his grandson. Exception is a possibility.
    end of spoilers
    It does not appear that Oz is malicious to Jon or Lois. He helped them during the fight with Superman Revenge Squad.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 09-13-2017 at 05:01 AM.

  5. #35
    Psionic Superman stephens2177's Avatar
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    I'm calling it now(until proven totally wrong of course),that jor-el is really Manhattan,and always was,he was testing humanity,and it's champion superman
    #BRINGBACKKON

    -Don't mess with the "S"

    -kon is the human facsimile of superman

    -kon-el is the human Superman,made by humans,for humanity

    Kon-el appreciation thread
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  6. #36
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    well what do you know, it seems spoilers of BC are true. Is it me or is this giving of a infinite crisis vibe with another my world is better than your world clash and the chief antagonist trying to convince the neat and dear ones in this case kal and Jon to join him just as earth2 supes tied to convince Bruce to join him? I wonder if oz is the sole survivor due to Manhattans shenanigans or he was also able to whisk out his wife before you know what she getting gravely injured/ comatose in the process reminiscent again of IC. Another possibility is that she could be the mysterious prisoner who may be contained due to opposing her husbands plans for their son or maybe she was trying to reach kal to reveal they had survived you know what.if it is her then I think it would be a great feat for tim to confront her to his complete shock and rescue her. maybe Tim will stop superman from spiralling down a dark path as once hr did with Bruce by enabling the reunion.
    The Self is the only existing reality

  7. #37
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    No, Oz is The Rebirth Jor-El using Manhattan powers trying to restore a "better (Kryptonian-like) world".

    Manhattan captured him and brainwashed him. In the end of the story-arc Jor-El will vanish somewhere (waiting for Doomsday Clock for his final appearence) and will be redeemed a little bit.

    In my eyes this is nothing but an insult to Superman's mythos and origins. Like discovering that Thomas and Martha Wayne never died.

    Oh, and Lois will get cancer from Manhattan in Doomsday Clock and Jon will go berserk.

    Dc Comics is full of ideas these days...

  8. #38
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    Oh, one more thing. Which is the coolest one.

    Tim Drake was captured because he's the next big thing in terms of being the best detective and he would have figured out that Oz was Jor-El and probably warned Superman before the whole plan was in place.

    This is ridiculous.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member theoneandonly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntoKent17 View Post
    Oh, one more thing. Which is the coolest one.

    Tim Drake was captured because he's the next big thing in terms of being the best detective and he would have figured out that Oz was Jor-El and probably warned Superman before the whole plan was in place.

    This is ridiculous.
    LOL. Just imagine kal asking tim how he could have factored in Oz's plans and why he kdinapped him and Tim answering I am the TIMster trained by the greatest detective in world and Superman saying oh that explains it.
    The Self is the only existing reality

  10. #40
    Psionic Superman stephens2177's Avatar
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    Either Oz is Manhattan portraying jor,or it's jor,but Manhattan pulled him off Krypton only to test Superman,or a total Manhattan construct just made to test Superman.

    This I bet will lead into doomsday clock,Superman will fail or pass the test and doom clock will be them talking.

    Now bring back the human Superman,kon-el, right around the time when Superman loses faith in humanity
    #BRINGBACKKON

    -Don't mess with the "S"

    -kon is the human facsimile of superman

    -kon-el is the human Superman,made by humans,for humanity

    Kon-el appreciation thread
    http://community.comicbookresources....l-Appreciation!
    Young Justice (comic and TV) appreciation thread
    http://community.comicbookresources....c-and-tv-show)

  11. #41
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntoKent17 View Post
    In my eyes this is nothing but an insult to Superman's mythos and origins. Like discovering that Thomas and Martha Wayne never died.

    Dc Comics is full of ideas these days...
    I wonder how people felt when DC did this sort of twist 50 years ago. Like this isn't halfway to the weirdest thing Otto Binder or Bob Haney or Cary Bates would think up.

  12. #42
    Hi-Fi Fight Club Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I wonder how people felt when DC did this sort of twist 50 years ago. Like this isn't halfway to the weirdest thing Otto Binder or Bob Haney or Cary Bates would think up.
    You thinking of that time displaced Pa Kent story?

    Speaking of far out Silver Age Superman stories, CBR brought up a story where Superman lived an entire life on another planet, was then deaged and sent to Earth.
    Creativity without constraint comes with responsibility. We do not make art in a vacuum isolated from sociopolitical context - RG

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member
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    Oz is in this week's Supergirl too

    spoilers:
    Does something nasty to Zor-El
    end of spoilers

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sustainentropy View Post
    Oz seems like he's been held against his will and tortured somewhat. A lifetime worth of brainwashing and torture is bound to affect a character's original motivations. It's likely that Manhattan whisked him away and proceeded to corrupt him. Manhattan's goal here seemed to have been to target the parents of Superman and Batman to help him push them out of wanting to be heroes anymore.

    We know from an interview released after "The Button" crossover that it was always Manhattan's intention that Thomas Wayne would suggest to his son to stop being Batman. That's why he sent Batman and Flash back to to the Flashpoint reality. His tactic here seems to be to have Oz remove Clark's faith in humanity and in turn Jor El's intention for Clark to lead the species by example. Manhattan wants Clark to lose faith in humanity as a whole (with the exception of Lois and Jon), thus questioning his role as Superman.
    If you're right, shouldn't Manhattan try something like that with Wonder Woman too? There is a Doomsday Clock cover which shows Superman's, Batman's and Wonder Woman's logos on Rorschach's mask, unless he already did something like that and I missed it?

    As for the issue, the reveal itself is whatever, but I don't like that Mr Oz has this sudden dislike for humanity, sure that before he never showed any like towards it, but he didn't seem to dislike them either from what I've seen, he just kept talking about Supes and nothing else, they could've at least hinted it before to make this more believable, but as it is, it's just weird.

    It can look weird for him to be immune to Kryptonite (Assuming he's not a Kryptonian from another universe), but then again he was able to trap Mxyzptlk, so I guess him being immune to Kryptonite isn't that far fetched.

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Dr Manhattan kidnapping. Dr. Manhattan torturing. Dr. Manhattan killing. There was a thread which asked if he meets atomic powered heroes like him will he kill them or de-power them. I don't get it. I request everyone to read Watchmen again. Dr. Manhattan was a really good guy. He was simply loosing interest in humanity due to his God-like powers. He was no psycho or criminal. Unless they are totally revamping him such that Watchmen series does not count there is no sense in him doing such stuff like kidnapping someone and torture him for years.

    Watchmen had no villains. Even the villain was just a hero saving the world in a twisted manner. Jeez if Dr. Manhattan is a villain like this, Alan Moore has every right to be angry at DC. It ruins the character.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 09-13-2017 at 07:21 AM.

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