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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Default Kobik: Were the Heroes Selfish Not Using Her to Restore People?

    I know Spencer just gave his reason why, but it's a really dumb reason. If you have the power and she is willing, they should have totally restored not just Natasha and Rick but Rhodes, Xavier, Logan, Cyclops, the innocent people who died in Las Vega and maybe if they stopped to think about it, say the kids who died at Stanford?

    The idea of letting all that stick for the sake of reminding themselves 'we did this' is immensely stupid and selfish. Yeah you did, now you have the POWER TO UNDO IT. Does it make the fact you did go away? No! I feel like I want to go and wack all the heroes on the head for this. Because I'm sure Carol is happy letting Rhodes stay dead, or Jennier is happy leaving Bruce in the ground.

  2. #2
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    It's a very stupid, poorly thought and written reason. Spencer wrote himself into a crap corner with the Cosmic Cube Plot Device Character. There was never going to be a satisfying result and trying to have it both ways of fixing somethings, but not fixing everything is terrible. Kobik comes across as an asshole, wagging her finger at the characters and trying to sound like she's trying to say something grand.

    It's not really. You could leave the damage done to Vegas and that would work. Why punish hundreds to thousands of victims and families for the actions of a bunch of Nazis and fascists, while trying to say all of that is also the people fighting said Nazis and fascists fault as well? It sounds like it is trying to blame both sides for letting this get out of control, but that doesn't f**king work.
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  3. #3
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Well it wasn't really the heroes' choice to let it stick. Kobik is a sentient being and chose to let it stick.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Metaltron View Post
    I know Spencer just gave his reason why, but it's a really dumb reason. If you have the power and she is willing, they should have totally restored not just Natasha and Rick but Rhodes, Xavier, Logan, Cyclops, the innocent people who died in Las Vega and maybe if they stopped to think about it, say the kids who died at Stanford?

    The idea of letting all that stick for the sake of reminding themselves 'we did this' is immensely stupid and selfish. Yeah you did, now you have the POWER TO UNDO IT. Does it make the fact you did go away? No! I feel like I want to go and wack all the heroes on the head for this. Because I'm sure Carol is happy letting Rhodes stay dead, or Jennier is happy leaving Bruce in the ground.
    The heroes didn't have a choice. It was Kobik's decision.

    Also, if it's selfish to not restore whoever suffered and died during the reign of HydraCap, then where does the "fixing" end? Should Kobik also solve world hunger, AIDS, cancer, and other issues while she's at it? She has to power to so isn't it wrong for this God-like being not to alleviate that suffering as well? No one is happy at the losses they suffered but hand waving them away isn't a solution.

  5. #5
    "Comic Book Reviewer" InformationGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    The heroes didn't have a choice. It was Kobik's decision.

    Also, if it's selfish to not restore whoever suffered and died during the reign of HydraCap, then where does the "fixing" end? Should Kobik also solve world hunger, AIDS, cancer, and other issues while she's at it? She has to power to so isn't it wrong for this God-like being not to alleviate that suffering as well? No one is happy at the losses they suffered but hand waving them away isn't a solution.
    I dunno. Feels half-assed to Kobik to just not fix all of the problems caused by HydraCap. Sure, you could say "where does it stop then?", but how are any of those things her fault? She has no duty to fix that stuff. Shouldn't she at least fix the problems she caused?
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by InformationGeek View Post
    I dunno. Feels half-assed to Kobik to just not fix all of the problems caused by HydraCap. Sure, you could say "where does it stop then?", but how are any of those things her fault? She has no duty to fix that stuff. Shouldn't she at least fix the problems she caused?
    She didn't cause all of them. Just because she created HydraCap doesn't mean that everything that he did was her fault. The heroes who either didn't see his threat in time or were complicit in his actions and the public who backed him have to shoulder their blame. No one made anyone do anything - Kobik didn't influence anyone's free will so she's not obliged to grant a "do over" for whatever happened.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    She didn't cause all of them. Just because she created HydraCap doesn't mean that everything that he did was her fault. The heroes who either didn't see his threat in time or were complicit in his actions and the public who backed him have to shoulder their blame. No one made anyone do anything - Kobik didn't influence anyone's free will so she's not obliged to grant a "do over" for whatever happened.
    Kobik absolutely influenced Steve Rogers and Selvig's free will which very directly lead to the death of Jack Flagg who she decided to should stay dead as a reminder to the world of something that had nothing to do with anything other then her own desire to see Hydra succceed.

  8. #8

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    they were selfish to use her at all.
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  9. #9
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    "Remember Las Vegas" .

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Well it wasn't really the heroes' choice to let it stick. Kobik is a sentient being and chose to let it stick.
    But she's inherently good, if misguided, and also seemed perfect willing to use her powers to let the new guard have a power trip. Given the fact it looks to be the heroes, not her, stating this idiocy of 'we must remember' to justify leaving things as they are then I would assume she's fine with trying, it's only the 'heroes' who are stopping her. And do we really imagine all of them felt that way? They should have had a couple of heroes angry with the idea of just leaving things as is at least.

    Let's be honest, they're only letting Natahsa stay dead so that Red Widow can be pushed into her role, Cap can be angsty for five minutes and they have a hook for Champions and Tales of Suspense books.

  11. #11
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    There needs to be consequences sometimes.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    There needs to be consequences sometimes.
    Natasha is likely alive. so there really weren't too many consequences. I won't miss Rick Jones, Jack Flag, and the scores of unnamed Vegas tourists; just haven't been made to care about them.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Derek Metaltron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    There needs to be consequences sometimes.
    There's also needs to be Marvel Legacy, which is meant to be something of a fresh start. Wouldn't reviving lots of characters via Kobik be contributing to that fresh start?

    And saying there needs to be 'consequences' is stupid when you have the means to undo them and she's willing. (And they haven't shown any suggestion she isn't.) It's not pretending they never happened, and in the case of the lives lost in Las Vegas it's a genuine heart felt act of caring for the civilian population. If the heroes don't want to bring any of their own back they should have least be thinking what the common person might want.

  14. #14
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    Maybe they will retcon that Rick Jones never died but it was actually an innocent bystander or a traitorous Hydra agent who was disguised as Rick Jones and was executed in his place. Rick Jones was still alive but as a prisoner of Hydra.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurararaFTW View Post
    Kobik absolutely influenced Steve Rogers and Selvig's free will which very directly lead to the death of Jack Flagg who she decided to should stay dead as a reminder to the world of something that had nothing to do with anything other then her own desire to see Hydra succceed.
    No, that was Steve's choice. She may have created him but she didn't force his hand.

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