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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirecam View Post
    I never lied to Joe Q. He lied to us. He is the one when he was getting grief for the civil war stunt that said the unmasking was not a stunt, would NOT be undone with a forget me ray and It was not a Bobby Ewing situation. Of course, he had later admitted OMD was coming at the time he was spewing these lies. And of course a forget me ray was used.

    No, place the blame where it belongs. Marvel first. As far as I know they have never apologized for lying. And that in my book is treating the fan base like crap.
    That doesn't justify disgruntled fans harassing and bullying Marvel employees or freelancers over creative directions of the franchises and whatnot. You're not responsible for what they do. You're responsible for what you (as are we all) and no amount of shifting blame changes that.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  2. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirecam View Post
    I never lied to Joe Q. He lied to us. He is the one when he was getting grief for the civil war stunt that said the unmasking was not a stunt, would NOT be undone with a forget me ray and It was not a Bobby Ewing situation. Of course, he had later admitted OMD was coming at the time he was spewing these lies. And of course a forget me ray was used.

    No, place the blame where it belongs. Marvel first. As far as I know they have never apologized for lying. And that in my book is treating the fan base like crap.
    The link to the place Quesada made the Bobby Ewing comment no longer appears to exist, but it wasn't a dream. The stories happened, and Peter was aware of what occurred. I don't recall Quesada specifically saying there would not be a forget me ray.

    He has been asked a lot about One More Day, so there have been plenty of public statements on the matter picked apart by his detractors, trying to poke holes in any of his arguments or rationalizations. Any contradiction or inadequate explanation is taken as evidence of poor judgement, often out of context. If someone spends dozens, if not hundreds of hours, discussing a decision in multiple venues for public consumption, in interviews and comic book convention panels, occasional brain farts and bouts of hyperbole are almost inevitable, with the mistakes receiving a disproportionately high amount of coverage. A detractor is unlikely to go around the internet providing links to Quesada at his most articulate.

    I wouldn't think too much of occasional verbal stumbles, nor does it seem fair to allow that to define whether or not the people at Marvel were able to articulate the reasons for their decision. If you get asked a question fifty times, you might have an inarticulate moment (I'm keeping this phrase should I ever become a campaign spokesman) every now and then. By exaggerating the significance of that, the critics cede the ethical high ground in an argument about moral superiority.

    Quesada's human. Which means if he makes thousands of statements, he'll mispeak a few times. Or be misunderstood, as seems to be the case with most of his "lies." Or make statements about plans that will end up turning out differently. Most people have nuanced positions, which can take a while to articulate, a complication in an interview where a pages-long answer isn't appreciated. And sometimes nuances might not be understood, especially if the interviewer is unfamiliar with the source material. Add to that the problems of potentially spoiling a story, and then the ease with which one can be paraphrased.

    And even if he lied outrageously and often, which I don't believe to be the case, it wouldn't justify harassment of others in the industry.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  3. #108
    Amazing Member farmernudie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    That doesn't justify disgruntled fans harassing and bullying Marvel employees or freelancers over creative directions of the franchises and whatnot. You're not responsible for what they do. You're responsible for what you (as are we all) and no amount of shifting blame changes that.
    True. Some fans have been quite rude and innappropriate several times.

    Other times I've seen on several forum sites back in the day Marvel employees being snippy and quite rude to customers who had NOT said anything bad, just politely stating their opinions on a forum to do so.

    IMO, it is BOTH sides who need to take responsibility for their actions when they were overly defensive to a point of rudeness needlessly.

  4. #109
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmernudie View Post
    True. Some fans have been quite rude and innappropriate several times.

    Other times I've seen on several forum sites back in the day Marvel employees being snippy and quite rude to customers who had NOT said anything bad, just politely stating their opinions on a forum to do so.

    IMO, it is BOTH sides who need to take responsibility for their actions when they were overly defensive to a point of rudeness needlessly.
    Yeah, I think we're all part of the problem to some extent.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  5. #110
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Yeah, I think we're all part of the problem to some extent.
    Speak for yourself. I'm perfect.

    And even if he lied outrageously and often, which I don't believe to be the case, it wouldn't justify harassment of others in the industry.
    And if he did lie ... so what? Do you want him to spoil a story for you before it's over? Is what he says in an interview more important than what you read in the comic?

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Speak for yourself. I'm perfect.
    Good for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    And if he did lie ... so what? Do you want him to spoil a story for you before it's over? Is what he says in an interview more important than what you read in the comic?
    While I don't condone lying, I do agree that there's a difference between a lie to hide surprises in fiction over more traditional lying that seeks to harm someone or unfairly benefit the liar. While it can blow back (JJ Abrams lying about Khan really was botched from day one), in this case, it really feels like the critics are grasping at straws to find some fault with Spider-Man's current management (and I'm saying that as someone who feels that post-OMD Spider-Man has been one wrong turn after another).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Do you want him to spoil a story for you before it's over?
    Lord I wish this was over.

  8. #113
    Incredible Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuck View Post
    Fanfic nonsense.
    Yuuuuuuuup
    Powered by logic™

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Yuuuuuuuup
    What is the last ten years?

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The link to the place Quesada made the Bobby Ewing comment no longer appears to exist, but it wasn't a dream. The stories happened, and Peter was aware of what occurred. I don't recall Quesada specifically saying there would not be a forget me ray.
    For the record, I linked to the old article at the old forums. Joe specifically said they would not use a forget-me ray. He later stated that he knew before the unmasking that OMD would retcon everything. So he lied.

    I wish people would not make excuses. If its fine (to you) that he lied, just say so. To me, its not.

  11. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by squirecam View Post
    For the record, I linked to the old article at the old forums. Joe specifically said they would not use a forget-me ray. He later stated that he knew before the unmasking that OMD would retcon everything. So he lied.

    I wish people would not make excuses. If its fine (to you) that he lied, just say so. To me, its not.
    My recollection about the arguments I had about this article were that I didn't think it was clear that he lied. I guess it depends on whether he said there would be no forget-me ray.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  12. #117
    Amazing Member farmernudie's Avatar
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    Luckily a lot of stuff from the old forum is deleted so there is no proof of the over the top defensiveness and snarky mean spirited quotes from both sides lol (or quotes in general)

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirecam View Post
    For the record, I linked to the old article at the old forums. Joe specifically said they would not use a forget-me ray. He later stated that he knew before the unmasking that OMD would retcon everything. So he lied.

    I wish people would not make excuses. If its fine (to you) that he lied, just say so. To me, its not.
    But to answer the question in 100% accurate way would spoil an ongoing story. It seems very petty to me to be critical of an editor or writer for being evasive on how a story goes.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
    I personally like all the heroes coming together and helping Peter defeat Mephisto.
    Sounds like an awesome event to me. On the level of a Secret Wars. It would need to be more than just helping Peter, though, Mephisto would need to do something to really get everyone's full attention.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    But to answer the question in 100% accurate way would spoil an ongoing story. It seems very petty to me to be critical of an editor or writer for being evasive on how a story goes.
    No, that wasnt the context.

    Joe was giving a media interview regarding the unmasking. Basically, the media was calling him on the unmasking "stunt". Joe simply could have said the old "stay tuned" or whatnot, but he was apparently upset that people were calling it the sales stunt that it was.

    So he gave the quote I referred to. Specifically saying that it was not a stunt and not something they were going to retcon, including the specific forget-me ray. I've commented on that quote several times, both here and the old forums.

    It wasn't to avoid "spoilers". He lied because the media that day wanted to admit it was a stunt and he made clear misrepresentations that it wasnt one. As he later admitted, he already knew it was going away because of OMD.

    BTW, while the article/old forums are long gone, proof of the lie does live on...

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ook/OneMoreDay

    Canon Discontinuity: Despite Joe Quesada's explicit claims that Spidey's unmasking in Civil War wouldn't be undone via a "magic retcon", one of the effects of the deal is that his unmasking was written out of history. Bravo, Joe.
    Last edited by squirecam; 11-13-2017 at 05:27 PM.

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