View Poll Results: Should Black Wally Get A Name Change?

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  • Yes

    73 65.77%
  • No

    38 34.23%
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  1. #136
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    The racebending thing, the way DC is doing it, doesn't really work (and is sort of offensive). On the Flash TV show, the Wests fall for the black roulette. On Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen. On DCEU, it's up to Perry White and Deadshot. Meanwhile, in comics and all other media, all of these characters remain white.

    That's not really a positive move towards black people inclusion, in the long run, is just black people getting hand me downs. At least with the West family, they seem to be trying to be consistent, as Iris will be black in DCEU also. But Wally will remain a stone on their shoe on this case, I believe. He has a built fandom in comics, not a small one, one that doesn't want Wally to be Kid Flash - regardless of if he is the main Flash or not - and the way they handled the new kid generated a shit-ton of reaction. I really, really doubt the TV show, or even the movies in the doubtful scenario that Wally makes his way into the DCU, will be able to make the kid the "main" Wally in the comics buying audience eyes; at least not for those who care.

    Following the same logic, though: could Barry Allen be made asian if the DCEU is a big success?
    Here's the problem: if you include new minority characters, they're going to have a hard time getting face time with the established white characters around (i.e Ron Troupe). I totally get what you're saying, but I also understand DC's/WB's dilemma.
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  2. #137
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    And then there's Nick Fury. Do most people think of the classic Howler/S.H.I.E.L.D. Director of Silver/Bronze Age fame, or Samuel L. Jackson's version of more recent times?

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    I bet there would be lots of people yelling and screaming if Marvel decided to "whitewash" Nick in future films.
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  3. #138
    Astonishing Member Bogotazo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Here's the problem: if you include new minority characters, they're going to have a hard time getting face time with the established white characters around (i.e Ron Troupe). I totally get what you're saying, but I also understand DC's/WB's dilemma.
    That's why servicing existing ones is so important right?

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    That's why servicing existing ones is so important right?
    It's easier to change Perry White or Jimmy Olsen to African-American, though, because 1) you get a minority character in the cast and 2) the minority character is assured of being a prominent one, instead of window dressing.

    Having said that, I'll admit to be mildly surprised when this indeed happened to Perry White and Jimmy Olsen recently, since they are rather iconic to the average person themselves outside of our hobby.
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  5. #140
    Astonishing Member Bogotazo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    It's easier to change Perry White or Jimmy Olsen to African-American, though, because 1) you get a minority character in the cast and 2) the minority character is assured of being a prominent one, instead of window dressing.

    Having said that, I'll admit to be mildly surprised when this indeed happened to Perry White and Jimmy Olsen recently, since they are rather iconic to the average person themselves outside of our hobby.
    I was okay with Perry but the Olsen change bothered me. It's too drastic to be anything but a distraction. Not to mention the drastic personality and other physical differences as well.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    I was okay with Perry but the Olsen change bothered me. It's too drastic to be anything but a distraction. Not to mention the drastic personality and other physical differences as well.
    Yeah, Perry still seems like Perry to me in the DCEU, but Jimmy on Supergirl seems like a different character (though likable).
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  7. #142
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Yeah, Perry still seems like Perry to me in the DCEU, but Jimmy on Supergirl seems like a different character (though likable).
    At times...

  8. #143
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Here's the problem: if you include new minority characters, they're going to have a hard time getting face time with the established white characters around
    I agree. I just think that if they're going to change a character's race, then they have to commit, not go "okay, who are we going to turn black this time?" every time they start a new production.

    Now, on Wally's case specifically, they just screwed up the opportunity, no 2 ways about that. It was the wrong character to use, at the wrong time, and they did in the wrongest possible way.
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  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    I agree. I just think that if they're going to change a character's race, then they have to commit, not go "okay, who are we going to turn black this time?" every time they start a new production.
    I agree with that, BD.

    Now, on Wally's case specifically, they just screwed up the opportunity, no 2 ways about that. It was the wrong character to use, at the wrong time, and they did in the wrongest possible way.
    Which is why we are where we're at now.
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    At times...
    At times, they're all unlikable, Frontier.
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  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Here's the problem: if you include new minority characters, they're going to have a hard time getting face time with the established white characters around (i.e Ron Troupe). I totally get what you're saying, but I also understand DC's/WB's dilemma.
    Characters like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, and Riri Williams kind of prove that point wrong, though. At least in the comics. And that's the thing: minority characters would have no problem getting face time if DC actually invested the effort in making a place for them. However, it seems that DC would just rather take the easy way out instead of investing the way Marvel did with the three characters I just mentioned. DC used to be able to do that too. Characters like John Stewart and John Henry Irons and Virgil Hawkins all became beloved DC characters because the company invested in them and made a place for them in the DCU. Even more recent examples like Jaime Reyes, Jessica Cruz, and Simon Baz are proof that DC can still do that. Unfortunately, though, it seems like they would much rather take the road that requires as little effort as possible, as opposed to a genuine attempt at inclusivity.
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  12. #147
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Which is why we are where we're at now.
    Yeah. In hindsight - which is always 20/20 - I simply cannot understand how that disaster got approved. Someone's ego has to be one of the defining factors, because Jesus!
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  13. #148
    Not a member BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Characters like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, and Riri Williams kind of prove that point wrong, though. At least in the comics. And that's the thing: minority characters would have no problem getting face time if DC actually invested the effort in making a place for them. However, it seems that DC would just rather take the easy way out instead of investing the way Marvel did with the three characters I just mentioned. DC used to be able to do that too. Characters like John Stewart and John Henry Irons and Virgil Hawkins all became beloved DC characters because the company invested in them and made a place for them in the DCU. Even more recent examples like Jaime Reyes, Jessica Cruz, and Simon Baz are proof that DC can still do that. Unfortunately, though, it seems like they would much rather take the road that requires as little effort as possible, as opposed to a genuine attempt at inclusivity.
    Well, in the Wally West case, specifically, iut was both an effgort to add a minority character (which boy, did they screw up) and an effort to demote Wally even further.

    If one can't see how problematic that was, on some many levels...
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Characters like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, and Riri Williams kind of prove that point wrong, though. At least in the comics.
    I was specifically talking about movies and TV programs, though, Zee.
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  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I was specifically talking about movies and TV programs, though, Zee.
    I know but the point still stands even there. For example, Miles and Anya are currently appearing in the newest Spider-Man cartoon. Also, Static had an entire animated series devoted to him in the 2000s, which naturally featured a plurality of characters of color. So, yeah, I think it just shows that DC wouldn't have to purposefully alter existing characters to appeal to a demographic if they just had faith that their existing POC characters would appeal to audiences.

    In the case of Will Smith and Laurence Fishburne being cast, it was probably just the case that they are two really fantastic actors. But in cases where the changes aren't organically arrived at, it doesn't really mirror true diversity. If we change Wally or Deadshot, that doesn't change either of them into strong examples if diversity. Comic book Wally and Deadshot are still white or at least still have decades' worth of comics portraying them as white. So, it doesn't mean DC is suddenly more "hip," it just means they dont have faith that their existing or new minority characters could appeal to the general audience.
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