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  1. #1
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    Default New reader bendis avengers questions

    I am a new reader trying to read bendis's avengers disassembled. I have been unable to find this anywhere so figured I would ask here. Who is the woman in issue 503 saying she thinks she is pregnant with clints baby? Also what is she talking about when Wanda wanted two kids but doesn't remember. I thought she was mind wiped or something but can't find where. Any other basic background that would make the story make more sense by providing background would also be much appreciated as my understanding of the marvel universe is pretty limited. Thanks

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsizzle View Post
    I am a new reader trying to read bendis's avengers disassembled. I have been unable to find this anywhere so figured I would ask here. Who is the woman in issue 503 saying she thinks she is pregnant with clints baby? Also what is she talking about when Wanda wanted two kids but doesn't remember. I thought she was mind wiped or something but can't find where. Any other basic background that would make the story make more sense by providing background would also be much appreciated as my understanding of the marvel universe is pretty limited. Thanks
    I believe that was Wasp Janet Van Dyne Clint and Jan only hooked up that once she's Hope's mom in the Ant-Man movies in the MCU if new to comics.

    Long story but short version Wanda magically created kids with Vision they were erased from existence she went nuts to protect her they erased them from her mind. Now thing is Wanda remembered that in the 90's and worked thru it but Bendis did not care about that he never cares about continuity.

  3. #3
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    There was a reason they brought that up about Wanda's kids. One of the spin offs from Avengers Disassembled was Young Avengers. Two of it's team members were Wiccan and Speed. Apparently the souls of those two kids were sent back in time and reborn, resulting in two new teenage heroes that share Wanda's and Quicksilver's powers. If it wasn't for that, Bendis would've probably not even mentioned it.

    And yes, Janet is Hope's mother, but that isn't a good description of her in the comics, since it's only recently that she's been in a maternal role. For continuity reasons, Hope's comics counterpart is drastically different. They had to de-age her to teenage, and even then it was impossible for Janet to be her Mom because she wouldn't have met Hank yet when she should've been born. As a result, they made the kid Russian, child of his first wife Maria, and as such we got Nadia (which means the same thing as Hope, just in Russian). Janet instead is her stepmother and mentor (they share the Wasp mantle). She actually tells Nadia that before meeting her, she never felt maternal or wanted kids - despite the fact she did have a daughter, Katie, with Havok in Uncanny Avengers. The kid got captured by Kang, but then Secret Wars aborted the storyline.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I believe that was Wasp Janet Van Dyne Clint and Jan only hooked up that once she's Hope's mom in the Ant-Man movies in the MCU if new to comics.

    Long story but short version Wanda magically created kids with Vision they were erased from existence she went nuts to protect her they erased them from her mind. Now thing is Wanda remembered that in the 90's and worked thru it but Bendis did not care about that he never cares about continuity.
    I suppose it is a negative appraisal of Bendis in doing Avengers Disassembled, to say Bendis never cares about continuity. Bendis loves the Avengers, and wanted to make the Avengers the greatest team at Marvel, which he did for over a decade. That Bendis did what he did with Wanda is just the vehicle by which he could move the story of the Avengers along, and it was the biggest part - having Wanda go nuts. Just Wanda going nuts, created the New Avengers, a never before seen group. It introduced the Illuminati in that book of NA, and gave us the remarkable Mighty Avengers and Dark Avengers as well. So though Bendis appeared to ignore continuity, he plucked the little known hanging thread of her children, and made it the most threatening that Wanda has ever been.

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    Mighty Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I suppose it is a negative appraisal of Bendis in doing Avengers Disassembled, to say Bendis never cares about continuity. Bendis loves the Avengers, and wanted to make the Avengers the greatest team at Marvel, which he did for over a decade. That Bendis did what he did with Wanda is just the vehicle by which he could move the story of the Avengers along, and it was the biggest part - having Wanda go nuts. Just Wanda going nuts, created the New Avengers, a never before seen group. It introduced the Illuminati in that book of NA, and gave us the remarkable Mighty Avengers and Dark Avengers as well. So though Bendis appeared to ignore continuity, he plucked the little known hanging thread of her children, and made it the most threatening that Wanda has ever been.
    I don't think he made them the greatest team at Marvel. I don't even think his run ranks high in Avengers Runs IMO. Stan Lee, Kurt Busiek, Roy Thomas, David Micheline, Steve Englehart, Roger Stern, Jim Shooter, and John Bryne and his West Coast Run all ahead of him. I'd even give Bob Harras an honorable mention before him just because I loved the Gatherers storyline.
    Last edited by Jokerz79; 10-09-2017 at 11:50 AM.

  6. #6
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    Don't believe Bendis hype. He sucks.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Honestly at that time I'd argue Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, Mark Waid's Fantastic Four, Young Avengers, Runaways, & Mark Millar's Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men were all better team books at the same time as Bendis' Avengers. I mean he rebuilt the team with only two mainstay Avengers Captain America and Iron Man, Two A List Marvel heroes Spider-Man and Wolverine, & three non A List heroes who weren't really being used at the time Luke Cage, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), and Ronan (Echo). The book wasn't bad but I don't get the praise it gets when it wasn't even the best team book at Marvel at the time and it butchered continuity to fit Bendis' storylines.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I suppose it is a negative appraisal of Bendis in doing Avengers Disassembled, to say Bendis never cares about continuity. Bendis loves the Avengers, and wanted to make the Avengers the greatest team at Marvel, which he did for over a decade. That Bendis did what he did with Wanda is just the vehicle by which he could move the story of the Avengers along, and it was the biggest part - having Wanda go nuts. Just Wanda going nuts, created the New Avengers, a never before seen group. It introduced the Illuminati in that book of NA, and gave us the remarkable Mighty Avengers and Dark Avengers as well. So though Bendis appeared to ignore continuity, he plucked the little known hanging thread of her children, and made it the most threatening that Wanda has ever been.
    He wants to make a good team book, yes.
    He cares about continuity, hell no.
    If he gave a shit about that he will make up something better than "Oh my kids are gone and I will blow shit up"explanation.
    Yeah, all characters are expendable to him except for his own creation.
    And by making Wanda "threatening" she got into the deepest dumpster fire, and "no more mutants" is all people will remember about her in the coming decade. He loves the Avengers when he own them.And scew with anyone he didn't care for.

    And that What if?Jessica Jones joins the Avengers is the ultimate Mary Sue story, seriously.
    My dear Jessica saves Wanda from a mental problem that I, Bendis make up years ago.
    Just great...
    Last edited by MaximoffTrash; 10-10-2017 at 02:02 AM.

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    Mighty Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    He wants to make a good team book, yes.
    He cares about continuity, hell no.
    If he gave a shit about that he will make up something better than "Oh my kids are gone and I will blow shit up"explanation.
    Yeah, all characters are expendable to him except for his own creation.
    And by making Wanda "threatening" she got into the deepest dumpster fire, and "no more mutants" is all people will remember about her in the coming decade. He loves the Avengers when he own them.And scew with anyone he didn't care for.

    And that What if?Jessica Jones joins the Avengers is the ultimate Mary Sue story, seriously.
    My dear Jessica saves Wanda from a mental problem that I, Bendis make up years ago.
    Just great...
    Yeah and also thing is yes Wanda did originally forget her kids to spear her pain by a spell cast by Agatha Harkness. But she became the Dark Scarlet Witch not long after and got her memories back. She had nightmares of them in her 90's Miniseries, and her and Vision discussed them after he got his emotions back. This wasn't some hanging thread as claimed here it was a buried issue had been for over a decade by the time Bendis decided to use to it to tell his story which annoys me as a Scarlet Witch and Vision fan.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Yeah and also thing is yes Wanda did originally forget her kids to spear her pain by a spell cast by Agatha Harkness. But she became the Dark Scarlet Witch not long after and got her memories back. She had nightmares of them in her 90's Miniseries, and her and Vision discussed them after he got his emotions back. This wasn't some hanging thread as claimed here it was a buried issue had been for over a decade by the time Bendis decided to use to it to tell his story which annoys me as a Scarlet Witch and Vision fan.
    Yeah, I am a rather new reader so I actually read backwards.
    I noticed in Busiek's run's monologue which is telling Wanda's life story(her lost family and stuff), and it is as if Wanda know the content as well.
    Then I just do some Wiki research and find that West Coast issue...
    Even Marvel wiki can only put it as "Though Wanda later recalled her loss, she suppressed this memory over the long term." Which is not exactly Bendis wrote, but hey, these people apparently need to polish some ridiculous logic behind that story so it can fit into a wiki.

    And another issue is that Bendis gave certain character "marks" that is hard to be shaken off, when I started with Avengers Dissembled/House of M which is jump-on-board story...
    And at first my impression about Wanda is limited to that "crazy lady with even crazier power" for a time.
    I am not some readers who came down a long way, but even I feel how bad it is after I read backwards and know more.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    Yeah, I am a rather new reader so I actually read backwards.
    I noticed in Busiek's run's monologue which is telling Wanda's life story(her lost family and stuff), and it is as if Wanda know the content as well.
    Then I just do some Wiki research and find that West Coast issue...
    Even Marvel wiki can only put it as "Though Wanda later recalled her loss, she suppressed this memory over the long term." Which is not exactly Bendis wrote, but hey, these people apparently need to polish some ridiculous logic behind that story so it can fit into a wiki.

    And another issue is that Bendis gave certain character "marks" that is hard to be shaken off, when I started with Avengers Dissembled/House of M which is jump-on-board story...
    And at first my impression about Wanda is limited to that "crazy lady with even crazier power" for a time.
    I am not some readers who came down a long way, but even I feel how bad it is after I read backwards and know more.
    There was even a storyline called the crossing in the 90's it wasn't good and was so 90's started with a lenticular cover special issue where everyone got bad 90's costumes ok Wanda's wasn't that bad definitely the better of the lot IMO http://images5.fanpop.com/image/phot...6-548-1150.jpg but it lasted really long and was later undone retconned out between Avengers Reborn/Return and Avengers Forever. It was the Disassembled of the 90's basically Kang was manipulating Tony into killing D level heroes and it ended with Tony "dying" and being replaced by Teen Tony a younger version of him complete fail. But during that storyline Kang had two servants/assassins named Malachi and Tobias who were thought could be Tommy and Billy another time her kids were referenced. Well they turned out they were Space Phantoms during the later retcons.

  12. #12
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I don't think he made them the greatest team at Marvel. I don't even think his run ranks high in Avengers Runs IMO. Stan Lee, Kurt Busiek, Roy Thomas, David Micheline, Steve Englehart, Roger Stern, Jim Shooter, and John Bryne and his West Coast Run all ahead of him. I'd even give Bob Harras an honorable mention before him just because I loved the Gatherers storyline.
    Writing quality aside (as that's subjective), I think what Bendis did was make the Avengers the core of the marvel universe, which is what they should have been all along. Not unlike the Justice League over at DC. Bendis got them to that level, both narratively and commercially. And I think that alone will give his run a sort of elevated status in the Avengers mythos.

    And to a degree I think that's whats missing in the Avengers now. Waids run is perfectly fine... but it's missing something. It doesn't feel important. The Avengers just feel like they are kinda there, and whats happening in the book right now doesn't seem to matter that much. Not to be uncharitable but it almost feels like filler.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Honestly at that time I'd argue Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, Mark Waid's Fantastic Four, Young Avengers, Runaways, & Mark Millar's Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men were all better team books at the same time as Bendis' Avengers. I mean he rebuilt the team with only two mainstay Avengers Captain America and Iron Man, Two A List Marvel heroes Spider-Man and Wolverine, & three non A List heroes who weren't really being used at the time Luke Cage, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), and Ronan (Echo). The book wasn't bad but I don't get the praise it gets when it wasn't even the best team book at Marvel at the time and it butchered continuity to fit Bendis' storylines.
    As far as the Avengers line up though... I get why some may feel his line up was unconventional, but I almost think it's an Avengers tradition. If there was an internet back during the Kooky QUartet days, with the originals being replaced by 2 mutant terrorits and the crimnial ex boyfriend of a russian spy, I'm sure it would have exploded. The Avengers 300 line up with Gilgamesh and 2 members of the Fantastic Four probably had a lot of people going WTF too. Avengers shaking up their line up every so often is just a thing they do.

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Agree with this post and agree in general that Bendix ruins characters to achieve stories he prefers; he does indeed ignore continuity at the expense of good classic stories.

    I hate what he did to Scarlet Witch, period. His New Avengers was readable, but more like the Justice League; a popularity contest at times.

  15. #15
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Honestly at that time I'd argue Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, Mark Waid's Fantastic Four, Young Avengers, Runaways, & Mark Millar's Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men were all better team books at the same time as Bendis' Avengers. I mean he rebuilt the team with only two mainstay Avengers Captain America and Iron Man, Two A List Marvel heroes Spider-Man and Wolverine, & three non A List heroes who weren't really being used at the time Luke Cage, Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), and Ronan (Echo). The book wasn't bad but I don't get the praise it gets when it wasn't even the best team book at Marvel at the time and it butchered continuity to fit Bendis' storylines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I don't think he made them the greatest team at Marvel. I don't even think his run ranks high in Avengers Runs IMO. Stan Lee, Kurt Busiek, Roy Thomas, David Micheline, Steve Englehart, Roger Stern, Jim Shooter, and John Bryne and his West Coast Run all ahead of him. I'd even give Bob Harras an honorable mention before him just because I loved the Gatherers storyline.
    I have to disagree with you guys but Bendis beats them hands down. One because he tortures his characters, and that builds up experience and fighting ability, whereas the lists you give just do the same old same old.

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