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  1. #16
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    Yeah and also thing is yes Wanda did originally forget her kids to spear her pain by a spell cast by Agatha Harkness. But she became the Dark Scarlet Witch not long after and got her memories back. She had nightmares of them in her 90's Miniseries, and her and Vision discussed them after he got his emotions back. This wasn't some hanging thread as claimed here it was a buried issue had been for over a decade by the time Bendis decided to use to it to tell his story which annoys me as a Scarlet Witch and Vision fan.
    Nothing is a buried issue in comics. It will be revisited over and over. Wanda was not going to just let her kids go, so ...Bendis tries his hand. Next it will be Waid who does that. That criticism doesn't work in comics.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Agree with this post and agree in general that Bendix ruins characters to achieve stories he prefers; he does indeed ignore continuity at the expense of good classic stories.

    I hate what he did to Scarlet Witch, period. His New Avengers was readable, but more like the Justice League; a popularity contest at times.
    I hate what he did to Wanda too, but now she is in a better place knowing what danger she gets herself in. I hated what Millar did to Iron Man in CWI too, but Stark had become the most popular guy in the MU after that, and, we learnt that everybody has a difference of opinion, and didn't always agree. It was highly controversial so it got a lot of blood boiling. I can do it for any character that has been tortured since the 21st millennium started, but the bottom line is, they were turned into more proficient and knowledgable characters for knowing what their real convictions are. I think it's like a scalpel, where you open up a character and look what's inside. Is it healthy, or is it diseased? That's what we find out.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I hate what he did to Wanda too, but now she is in a better place knowing what danger she gets herself in. I hated what Millar did to Iron Man in CWI too, but Stark had become the most popular guy in the MU after that, and, we learnt that everybody has a difference of opinion, and didn't always agree. It was highly controversial so it got a lot of blood boiling. I can do it for any character that has been tortured since the 21st millennium started, but the bottom line is, they were turned into more proficient and knowledgable characters for knowing what their real convictions are. I think it's like a scalpel, where you open up a character and look what's inside. Is it healthy, or is it diseased? That's what we find out.
    But did this need to happen in the first place?
    And Wanda did let that pain go in a West Coast Annual.(It's like bringing up Pym hitting Janet over and over again even though Janet forgave Pym... Like everyone's memory is suddenly switched on and off.)
    Did Millar or Bendis fix their own damage? Nope...Iron Man is a better case situation, he didn't get fridged and usable like Wanda who is gone for years.
    I am sure if she get another writer and have some stories in those years, things will be better for her now.

    She is in a better place for many reasons, Joss Whedon went through some efforts to get her into MCU, Allan Heinberg retcon that HOM thing. None of them is because of Bendis.
    And actually I wouldn't call it a better place, it's like you are struck by lightnng and you are semi-recovered after years, still not as healthy as you should be.
    And what danger exactly? "I am the living vessel of Chthon?" "I lost my kids, I dealt with that and moved on?" Bendis didn't even bother to pick a convincing explanation,
    like how she got that OP again?(Bendis Force or Life Force?) And why would she want to give Magneto what he wants? Avengers and X-Men's? Maybe, they are mostly personal wishes.
    Magneto's is a whole system of mutant superiority and domination, since when did she agree to any of that?

    And what did he do to Carol again? Good thing that she got a upcoming movie and Marvel wants to promote her as their first lady.
    If not, she may get shelved like Wanda... Bendis or others aren't responsible for the good things that happen to those characters.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I hate what he did to Wanda too, but now she is in a better place knowing what danger she gets herself in. I hated what Millar did to Iron Man in CWI too, but Stark had become the most popular guy in the MU after that, and, we learnt that everybody has a difference of opinion, and didn't always agree. It was highly controversial so it got a lot of blood boiling. I can do it for any character that has been tortured since the 21st millennium started, but the bottom line is, they were turned into more proficient and knowledgable characters for knowing what their real convictions are. I think it's like a scalpel, where you open up a character and look what's inside. Is it healthy, or is it diseased? That's what we find out.
    But did this need to happen in the first place?
    And Wanda did let that pain go in a West Coast Annual.(It's like bringing up Pym hitting Janet over and over again even though Janet forgave Pym... Like everyone's memory is suddenly switched on and off.)
    Did Millar or Bendis fix their own damage? Nope...Iron Man is a better case situation, he didn't get fridged and usable like Wanda who is gone for years.
    I am sure if she get another writer and have some stories in those years, things will be better for her now.

    She is in a better place for many reasons, Joss Whedon went through some efforts to get her into MCU, Allan Heinberg retcon that HOM thing. None of them is because of Bendis.
    And actually I wouldn't call it a better place, it's like you are struck by lightnng and you are semi-recovered after years, still not as healthy as you should be.
    And what danger exactly? "I am the living vessel of Chthon?" "I lost my kids, I dealt with that and moved on?" Bendis didn't even bother to pick a convincing explanation,
    like how she got that OP again?(Bendis Force or Life Force?) And why would she want to give Magneto what he wants? Avengers and X-Men's? Maybe, they are mostly personal wishes.
    Magneto's is a whole system of mutant superiority and domination, since when did she agree to any of that?

    And what did he do to Carol again? Good thing that she got a upcoming movie and Marvel wants to promote her as their first lady.
    If not, she may get shelved like Wanda... Bendis or others aren't responsible for the good things that happen to those characters.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    But did this need to happen in the first place?
    And Wanda did let that pain go in a West Coast Annual.(It's like bringing up Pym hitting Janet over and over again even though Janet forgave Pym... Like everyone's memory is suddenly switched on and off.)
    Did Millar or Bendis fix their own damage? Nope...Iron Man is a better case situation, he didn't get fridged and usable like Wanda who is gone for years.
    I am sure if she get another writer and have some stories in those years, things will be better for her now.

    She is in a better place for many reasons, Joss Whedon went through some efforts to get her into MCU, Allan Heinberg retcon that HOM thing. None of them is because of Bendis.
    And actually I wouldn't call it a better place, it's like you are struck by lightnng and you are semi-recovered after years, still not as healthy as you should be.
    And what danger exactly? "I am the living vessel of Chthon?" "I lost my kids, I dealt with that and moved on?" Bendis didn't even bother to pick a convincing explanation,
    like how she got that OP again?(Bendis Force or Life Force?) And why would she want to give Magneto what he wants? Avengers and X-Men's? Maybe, they are mostly personal wishes.
    Magneto's is a whole system of mutant superiority and domination, since when did she agree to any of that?

    And what did he do to Carol again? Good thing that she got a upcoming movie and Marvel wants to promote her as their first lady.
    If not, she may get shelved like Wanda... Bendis or others aren't responsible for the good things that happen to those characters.
    A lot of that criticism on Bendis goes just as much on every other writer at Marvel, so Bendis getting focus is a little one-sided. And the difference between how I see things and you see things is "the glass half empty, the glass half full". We can choose to only see the negative, or, we can take a long view and see something else.

    I had a lot of struggle with the torturing side of Marvels approach to its characters myself. It took a lot of study and research, going back over stories and seeing where the characters were, and what they turned out to be, to overcome the negativity I had for a long time, so it's not easy to get to that place.

    So the way I came at it was the best thing for characters is to challenge them hard, and that makes them better. If you want your characters to be prepared to confront very bad situations, take Reed Richards and Doctor Doom to hell. They'll save you when the world is destroyed, like in Secret Wars. That's the best demonstration of why you have to do bad things to Wanda and Stark.
    Last edited by jackolover; 10-11-2017 at 03:16 PM.

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I have to disagree with you guys but Bendis beats them hands down. One because he tortures his characters, and that builds up experience and fighting ability, whereas the lists you give just do the same old same old.
    He just makes his characters screwed up and could care less about their actual purported abilities. He wants to write superhero comics like Alias.

  7. #22
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with you guys but Bendis beats them hands down. One because he tortures his characters, and that builds up experience and fighting ability, whereas the lists you give just do the same old same old.
    The torture might mean something if the characters he writes ever felt like the people they're supposed to. it's hard to show that a character is broken if he can't right then in their natural state to start with. As for their fighting ability, Bendis is horrible with fight scenes, often just having two large groups charge at each other and forget half the powers the characters are supposed to have when he doesn't outright depower them to start with.

  8. #23
    Incredible Member Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Writing quality aside (as that's subjective), I think what Bendis did was make the Avengers the core of the marvel universe, which is what they should have been all along. Not unlike the Justice League over at DC. Bendis got them to that level, both narratively and commercially. And I think that alone will give his run a sort of elevated status in the Avengers mythos.

    And to a degree I think that's whats missing in the Avengers now. Waids run is perfectly fine... but it's missing something. It doesn't feel important. The Avengers just feel like they are kinda there, and whats happening in the book right now doesn't seem to matter that much. Not to be uncharitable but it almost feels like filler.
    Aside from that, I think Bendis deserves some credit for attempting to actually make new stories. No rehash of the Thomas/Stern days. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it failed miserably, but I know this is a run we will still be discussing ten years from now.

  9. #24
    Spectacular Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    Don't believe Bendis hype. He sucks.
    So true....if only he cared about character's continuity and could write dialogue that reflects individual character traits instead of everyone having the same old "witty one liner" voice, he actually has talent in regards to coming up with great story premises but fails to execute them

  10. #25
    Fantastic Member strathcona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    A lot of that criticism on Bendis goes just as much on every other writer at Marvel, so Bendis getting focus is a little one-sided. .
    Yes, other writers are not perfect either, but with Bendis, he does it over and over again. I have never seen an attempt by him to keep character voices consistent, to respect continuity (old, current or even his own), or to bother to fix the problems he's caused (whether they be continuity problems, or tearing down a character...there has to be a building back up). I don't buy into any explanation that he is a good writer, every thing I've read by him is mediocre at best or objectively bad at worst.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strathcona View Post
    Yes, other writers are not perfect either, but with Bendis, he does it over and over again. I have never seen an attempt by him to keep character voices consistent, to respect continuity (old, current or even his own), or to bother to fix the problems he's caused (whether they be continuity problems, or tearing down a character...there has to be a building back up). I don't buy into any explanation that he is a good writer, every thing I've read by him is mediocre at best or objectively bad at worst.
    Certainly Bendis gives everyone a similar but not exact voice. You can't have Starks voice the same as Luke Cage for instance. But I don't think Bendis' aim is to bring the character back to before Bendis touched him. Bendis is there to open up the character so you have more to see of the characters foibles, not retreat and have the character forget what he's done wrong. Bendis wants other writers to acknowledge that he's evolved the characters, not paste over it as though nothing had happened. Bendis wants it to have happened, and the character to suffer for it from then on. That makes the characters develop and move forward, not stay Peter Pans for dozens of years.

    But that's just for people who see it that way. Others want Peter Pan as he always is, and that's just how different people see their comics.
    Last edited by jackolover; 10-12-2017 at 09:51 PM.

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