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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I wasn't remotely saying I root for the supervillains. I always want the superheroes to win. But unlike in reality, the vast majority of readers like the Joker, Lex, the Cheetah, the Rogues, etc. to return every now and then to mix it up with their favorites. This has been going on since my parents were babies during WWII and I imagine won't change in the future.
    Another thing that has actually changed since then... polio.

  2. #77
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Another thing that has actually changed since then... polio.
    Hmm... on the one hand, we have a disease, while OTOH a harmless strategy the comics industry subscribes to because it brings in more money for them. Yep, completely analogous.
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  3. #78
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    Batman is "non-powered" is a myth - his superpower is making everyone around him dumber.

    And, to be frank, this is the reason I'm not reading Metal.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Look, the most popular DC character isn't going to be a secondary player just because he doesn't have super powers. It's just not going to happen and anybody who thinks otherwise should avoid any management position at the company. Does that mean Batman should always win? Nope. Preferably, he should be able to force a stalemate or draw in the vast majority of encounters with the league, while besting or losing to them a very limited number of times.
    I'm not understanding your business strategy here. First, Batman's biggest money making endeavors - The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Returns, and the Arkham games - don't include him beating the JL, right? Both of the DK movies made more than Batman fighting Superman. My point is that if something like Metal is just going to make the rest of the JL look dumb, why not just have it be a Batman story that doesn't need to include the JL at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Which makes no sense business-wise. I doubt that would be the case if they were a distant #2 for a few years.
    Wait, again, I'm not understanding your business strategy here. On average, hasn't DC been trailing Marvel, both in comics and movies, for quite some time? If so, wouldn't you think the market leader may just have the superior strategy?

    If DC/WB had stayed with their "only Batman and Superman can sell" mindset, they never would have made the WW movie - a movie that made $80 million more than BvS domestically. And she didn't need to make other heroes look bad to do it.
    Last edited by Awonder; 10-10-2017 at 04:52 PM.

  4. #79
    Spectacular Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Well, the real Batman has actually been rather absent. Since he was abducted by Barabtos. The other Batmen look to have exploited their friends' compassion and empathy of him/them in order to bring them down.

  5. #80
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    I have to say whatever happen to equal peers in the Justice League. They maybe powerful people, but most of the times in the past they treated each other as equals and on par with each other.

    What ever happen to those stories ?

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member dzub's Avatar
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    Batman has took a couple of Ls in Metal.
    He tried to outsmart and outmanoeuvre the justice league, but that didnt work.
    The Court of Owls manipulated him to where they wanted him to be, and they finished the ritual.
    If you ask me, Metal is fairly balanced in terms of prep plot devices.
    What we used to call life has very little worth these days. Welcome to the very edge.
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  7. #82
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Batman is "non-powered" is a myth - his superpower is making everyone around him dumber.
    I still prefer my personal headcanon.

    BATMAN doesn't have superpowers. BATMAN, also, rarely if ever leaves Gotham. The "Batman" we always see in Justice League and other, non-Bat books isn't Batman at all. It's Bat-Mite cosplaying! That explains every single Batgod moment ever. It literally IS a godlike being pretending to be Batman.

    That or every "Batgod" moment is just Bat-Mite subtly using his powers to stack every deck in Batman's favor. One or the other.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Hmm... on the one hand, we have a disease, while OTOH a harmless strategy the comics industry subscribes to because it brings in more money for them. Yep, completely analogous.
    While an admittedly crude comparison, my intention was to point out that just because things were like this when mother and father were kids, time has passed and things move on.
    Comics has ofc also changed since then, since we dont normally see the villain being thrown into the back of a police truck while shouting "Curses! Foiled again!" or "I'll get you!" and the whole thing ending with the heroes issuing somekind of lesson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Well, the real Batman has actually been rather absent. Since he was abducted by Barabtos.
    Which was last issue.

  9. #84
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    While an admittedly crude comparison, my intention was to point out that just because things were like this when mother and father were kids, time has passed and things move on.
    Comics has ofc also changed since then, since we dont normally see the villain being thrown into the back of a police truck while shouting "Curses! Foiled again!" or "I'll get you!" and the whole thing ending with the heroes issuing somekind of lesson..
    The financial incentive is for the industry to keep doing what they're doing, not having supervillains disappearing after a battle or two. You can dislike that, of course, but you're not go to win this particular battle.
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  10. #85
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Batman is "non-powered" is a myth - his superpower is making everyone around him dumber.

    And, to be frank, this is the reason I'm not reading Metal.



    I'm not understanding your business strategy here. First, Batman's biggest money making endeavors - The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Returns, and the Arkham games - don't include him beating the JL, right? Both of the DK movies made more than Batman fighting Superman. My point is that if something like Metal is just going to make the rest of the JL look dumb, why not just have it be a Batman story that doesn't need to include the JL at all?
    I'm pretty sure I made an earlier post where I stated everybody should stand out. In fact, I know I did.

    Wait, again, I'm not understanding your business strategy here. On average, hasn't DC been trailing Marvel, both in comics and movies, for quite some time? If so, wouldn't you think the market leader may just have the superior strategy?
    On most things, sure, but that doesn't mean everything.

    If DC/WB had stayed with their "only Batman and Superman can sell" mindset, they never would have made the WW movie - a movie that made $80 million more than BvS domestically. And she didn't need to make other heroes look bad to do it.
    Did I say I only want Batman or Superman movies?! If there's a market for a superhero, I would certainly want WB to make a film around that character. Hell, there's probably not a character you could name that I wouldn't want to see on the silver screen. The more the merrier, I always say.
    A bat! That's it! It's an omen.. I'll shall become a bat!

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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    The financial incentive is for the industry to keep doing what they're doing, not having supervillains disappearing after a battle or two. You can dislike that, of course, but you're not go to win this particular battle.
    Well, I could say that comics, as in the books, is not really that good a business right now, it's not where the parent companies are making their money. The part that is, is the movie department... and most of them take a more permanent solution regarding the villains. So you wont find me agreeing with it being the financial part thats keeping supervillains from being locked up in comics.

    What I will agree with is that it's story potentials thats breaking them out, because a writer always wants to play with the best toys, and in an industry as old as this, it's getting rare to find a writer who's got more than 1 new idea for a villain... and quite often that villain gets sort of sidelined because he also wants to play with the older characters. Older characters gets reused again and again, the new breed is slowly forgotten.
    Like... when Snyder is done with Batman, if he ever is, how many people do we think will come back and use his Court of Owls over, say, the League of Assassins?

  12. #87
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Well, I could say that comics, as in the books, is not really that good a business right now, it's not where the parent companies are making their money. The part that is, is the movie department... and most of them take a more permanent solution regarding the villains. So you wont find me agreeing with it being the financial part thats keeping supervillains from being locked up in comics.
    Well, revolving-door supervillains have been around during all eras, good and bad, in comics history. Besides the obvious appeal of many comic-book baddies (the Joker and Lex themselves are more popular than most superheroes), it's easier to recycle the ones already created than make up new ones. Also, you also have in more recent years the situation where creators are more hesitant to create new supervillains (or superheroes, FTM) for the Big 2.

    What I will agree with is that it's story potentials thats breaking them out, because a writer always wants to play with the best toys, and in an industry as old as this, it's getting rare to find a writer who's got more than 1 new idea for a villain... and quite often that villain gets sort of sidelined because he also wants to play with the older characters. Older characters gets reused again and again, the new breed is slowly forgotten.
    Like... when Snyder is done with Batman, if he ever is, how many people do we think will come back and use his Court of Owls over, say, the League of Assassins?
    Yep. BTW, I'm always glad to agree with you on something, Outside.
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  13. #88
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    I truly hope that in the aftermath of this event that this has an impact on how the Justice League views Batman going forward and have an impact on Doomsday clock, which while it maybe a year or so later still should impact it by then.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    It does kind of suck how Batman is most always the Prince, Superman the frog and the rest trees and clouds in
    these big D C event plays the past few decades

  15. #90
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
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    This time he used many members of the batfamily... He could make this worse..

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