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  1. #61
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I think Scott Synder only nerfed the JL for Endgame and Metal also Metal downgrade hasn't been that bad. I don't remember the other times he screwed over JL so bad.

  2. #62
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Market should remain roughly where it is because, as we seem to hear, event-books like this are bought at the expense of something else.
    True, but that "something else" I guess would be at the expense of a non-Bat title on average. Again, market data would be nice to verify it or not.
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  3. #63
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I think Wolfman/DC missed an opportunity here. When Barry Allen died, his image appeared before two people: Wally West and Batman. The reasons that Barry would appear before Wally in his dying moments is obvious: he wanted Wally to know what had happened to him and for Wally to carry on in his place. Why appear in Gotham City of Earth-One before Batman, though? To me, that wasn't a random appearance: I think Barry manifested then and there precisely because he knew he didn't have much time, and had to get the word out to someone who could figure out what had happened with minimal info. In the DC Multiverse, who would you entrust with that? The World's Greatest Detective, naturally.

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    It does make sense logically, BA.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Yeah...necessarily, to make it work, Monitor and Harbinger's roles would need to be adjusted a bit. Of course, Barry didn't know about the Monitor or Harbinger, so his dying image might have sought out Batman anyway.

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    Thats what I was thinking, Barry simply went to the guy he knew could figure it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I think Scott Synder only nerfed the JL for Endgame and Metal also Metal downgrade hasn't been that bad. I don't remember the other times he screwed over JL so bad.
    It's not so much Scott alone, it's the whole trend of different writers doing it to varying degrees and characters.
    Like you have Scott and his Endgame and now Metal (agree that it's not serious here yet)
    But then you also have stuff like Injustice where every single member of the League save Batman turned evil.

    And you can sort of see the pattern being repeated elsewhere now. Teen Titans is now mostly a Damian book and Suicide Squad is being lead by the fruitcake Harley Quinn.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    True, but that "something else" I guess would be at the expense of a non-Bat title on average. Again, market data would be nice to verify it or not.
    Depends if the reader was already on the fence about that book, or if they realized they may be going a bit overboard with the amount of bat-books they take home.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This reminds me how Thrones of Atlantis established that Arthur had actually helped develop his own contingency plans in Atlantis for taking out the Justice League.
    Which raises the question why if Bruce and Arthur are this smart, why do the still have trouble with villains?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Which raises the question why if Bruce and Arthur are this smart, why do the still have trouble with villains?
    I would argue that you really dont need to be that smart to take out a bunch of people you regularly encounter and who you eventually find out have some weakness' that can be exploited.
    Not to mention that more than a few times do plans like these require the 'defender' to pre-emptively strike and take the target down before they have much of a chance to fight back.

  7. #67
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    I can understand having your top character get the win. My question is why we need the battle at all. Is there some reason we need Batman to show up the League as opposed to beating Zod, Cheetah, Ares, Sinestro ... As annoying as the Bat-god idea is I could probably accept it better if it wasn't automatically conflated with the Marvel approach of needed the good guys to be at odds with each other rather than with villains.

  8. #68
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Depends if the reader was already on the fence about that book, or if they realized they may be going a bit overboard with the amount of bat-books they take home.
    Very possible. Too much can hurt in the end, too.
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  9. #69
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I can understand having your top character get the win. My question is why we need the battle at all. Is there some reason we need Batman to show up the League as opposed to beating Zod, Cheetah, Ares, Sinestro ... As annoying as the Bat-god idea is I could probably accept it better if it wasn't automatically conflated with the Marvel approach of needed the good guys to be at odds with each other rather than with villains.
    Now that's a great question and one I'm very sympathetic with.
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  10. #70
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Which raises the question why if Bruce and Arthur are this smart, why do the still have trouble with villains?
    Because that's how comics have been created since before any of us have been born.
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  11. #71
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Because that's how comics have been created since before any of us have been born.
    Also, the villains are pretty smart themselves. People like Lex Luthor aren't dangerous because they're morons. Even someone like the Joker is a genius in his twisted way.

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  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Also, the villains are pretty smart themselves. People like Lex Luthor aren't dangerous because they're morons. Even someone like the Joker is a genius in his twisted way.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    This argument gets used to counter the "Why doesn't Batman beat his rogues" question a lot, and it never holds water with me. Batman can spend a billion dollars to build a warsuit that lets him stomp the entire Justice League with contemptuous ease? Then why doesn't he spend $250,000,000 and build a suit about a third that powerful and sweep Gotham's streets clean in a single night?

    Joker, Riddler, and Bane are smart, but they've never demonstrated ANYTHING that leads one to believe they'd have any answer for something like that. Then, Bruce just needs to devote some more money to once and for all build a prison that his enemies CANNOT escape. At least not nearly as easily as they escape Arkham, at any rate.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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  13. #73
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    This argument gets used to counter the "Why doesn't Batman beat his rogues" question a lot, and it never holds water with me. Batman can spend a billion dollars to build a warsuit that lets him stomp the entire Justice League with contemptuous ease? Then why doesn't he spend $250,000,000 and build a suit about a third that powerful and sweep Gotham's streets clean in a single night?

    Joker, Riddler, and Bane are smart, but they've never demonstrated ANYTHING that leads one to believe they'd have any answer for something like that. Then, Bruce just needs to devote some more money to once and for all build a prison that his enemies CANNOT escape. At least not nearly as easily as they escape Arkham, at any rate.
    Why doesn't this happen then? Because fans of DC super-villains want to see them fairly regularly despite the PIS. The same goes for Clark and his rogues gallery, as well as others.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Why doesn't this happen then? Because fans of DC super-villains want to see them fairly regularly despite the PIS. The same goes for Clark and his rogues gallery, as well as others.
    Thats kinda like wishing Charles Manson would break out of jail... who the devil roots for the villains?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Thats kinda like wishing Charles Manson would break out of jail... who the devil roots for the villains?
    I wasn't remotely saying I root for the supervillains. I always want the superheroes to win. But unlike in reality, the vast majority of readers like the Joker, Lex, the Cheetah, the Rogues, etc. to return every now and then to mix it up with their favorites. This has been going on since my parents were babies during WWII and I imagine won't change in the future.
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