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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I liked those two - and completely agree with your point about the Last Days issues. Ugh. I didn't even buy them, even though I bought every other issue.

    I love Ellis's arc on Secret Avengers - Widow was a major player there, and her solo issue was one of the BEST Widow issues I've ever read.
    I was a big fan.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I liked those two - and completely agree with your point about the Last Days issues. Ugh. I didn't even buy them, even though I bought every other issue.
    They were included in the tpb collection I picked up.

    By the way, did anybody else like the two Black Widow issues of Avengers Assemble written by Kelly Sue DeConnick from back in 2013?





  3. #18
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    Warren Ellis' Endless Wartime
    I have to admit, though I usually enjoy Ellis, the Endless Wartime book was just so full of bickering I didn't enjoy any of the characters, despite the art.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Own most of his Captain America run (mostly in tpb) and have the Brubaker Winter Soldier tpb collection, but not Secret Avengers (yet).
    Ellis's Secret Avengers is a must have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterboy View Post
    Ales Kot and Michael Walsh's Secret Avengers is a funny reading...
    I really hated Kot's Secret Avengers - it didn't take anything seriously, and was just so goofy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    Playing devils advocate here: I'll say you didn't miss out on anything worthwhile with the Samnee/waid run.

    Her characterisation was all over the place, some twists and turns s felt out of place or had underwhelming pay-offs and while Samnee is a good storyteller with his art, it doesn't look overly appealing when it comes to faces.
    I tend to agree. The stories also didn't really offer much beyond the art that hasn't been done better before. I'm so over Nat finding NEW RED ROOMS or RED ROOM COMING BACK TO HAUNT HER at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I think the problem is that you said "recent" but already named the the best runs from the last few years. If we can go back a little further, I'd like to recommend "Itsy Bitsy Spider" by Devin Grayson and JG Jones

    The whole Grayson/Rucka series of books about Nat and Yelena were great.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    They were included in the tpb collection I picked up.

    By the way, did anybody else like the two Black Widow issues of Avengers Assemble written by Kelly Sue DeConnick from back in 2013?
    I had not heard of them - now I shall have to pick them up. Thanks!
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  4. #19
    Spectacular Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    Regarding the Avengers Assemble two issues, I did like it, but thought it could have been even better. Could have delved a bit deeper into Nat's past.

    One of my favorite Black Widow arcs is actually in Marvel Team-up, I think it may be 87-90 or there abouts. Written by Chris Claremont. Spidey, Widow, Fury, Shang-Chi. great stuff...
    Last edited by Spidey5640; 10-12-2017 at 07:04 AM.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey5640 View Post
    Regarding the Avengers Assemble two issues, I did like it, but thought it could have been even better. Could have delved a bit deeper into Nat's past.

    One of my favorite Black Widow arcs is actually in Marvel Team-up, I think it may be 87-90 or there abouts. Written by Chris Claremont. Spidey, Widow, Fury, Shang-Chi. great stuff...
    Actually, issues #82-85, from waaaaaaaaaaay back in 1979.





    I'm not sure how many people who post here were even old enough to read back then!
    (Me, I graduated high school around the time those came out.)

  6. #21
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Actually, issues #82-85, from waaaaaaaaaaay back in 1979.





    I'm not sure how many people who post here were even old enough to read back then!
    (Me, I graduated high school around the time those came out.)
    Oh, man. All these stories! Are these worth checking out? I tried reading some of the old Champions books after some amazing art from them was posted in the Black Widow appreciation thread, but they were terrible.
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  7. #22
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Oh, man. All these stories! Are these worth checking out? I tried reading some of the old Champions books after some amazing art from them was posted in the Black Widow appreciation thread, but they were terrible.
    That's always a tough question to answer.
    I enjoyed them back-in-the-day, but writing styles have changed so drastically since then. People who are really use to a fewer words / bigger panels approach often can't handle some old-school writing. ("Too many words!!!")

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    That's always a tough question to answer.
    I enjoyed them back-in-the-day, but writing styles have changed so drastically since then. People who are really use to a fewer words / bigger panels approach often can't handle some old-school writing. ("Too many words!!!")
    My problem with Champions was not too many words. It was "this plot is so dumb, and the characters have no depth." The art was pretty, though.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  9. #24
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I really hated Kot's Secret Avengers - it didn't take anything seriously, and was just so goofy.
    I usually find books goofy because they take everything seriously. Purple spandex and grit only mesh so well imo. But I guess I'm the minority because it didn't sell.

  10. #25
    Spectacular Member Spidey5640's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Actually, issues #82-85, from waaaaaaaaaaay back in 1979.





    I'm not sure how many people who post here were even old enough to read back then!
    (Me, I graduated high school around the time those came out.)
    I was only a few years later..thanks for the assist on the issues numbers, save me checking my collection..

  11. #26
    Fantastic Member QBall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I think the problem is that you said "recent" but already named the the best runs from the last few years. If we can go back a little further, I'd like to recommend "Itsy Bitsy Spider" by Devin Grayson and JG Jones

    The series of mini-series around that time were great.

  12. #27
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I usually find books goofy because they take everything seriously. Purple spandex and grit only mesh so well imo. But I guess I'm the minority because it didn't sell.
    I just felt like Kot wasn't taking the book seriously. I like a good goofy book - Gwenpool has been really fun - but Secret Avengers just felt sloppy and haphazard.
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  13. #28
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Well, now, those two issues of Avengers Assemble (#12 and 13) were really excellent. It feels very much like DeConnick's take on Nat was inspired by the Avengers movie, but carefully thought through, not just "Red in my ledger synergy!" I kinda wish Edmondson, who wanted to do the same kind of thing, had gone with DeConnick's markers, at least for one storyline. I also read through the other issues that seemed to feature Nat - #5 - the kiss with Hawkeye (prefiguring the silliness of Secret Empire) - not very good. #14 - the Age of Ultron tie-in - Nat takes a day off, and people die, and she feels guilty - I didn't like this story when it was Oracle in Joker's Last Laugh, I don't like it now, with a different redhead (a little cross-company humor there). #19 - a nice character moment on Nat by DeConnick, but too much cosmic Marvel, which is my least favorite Marvel (after "coffee shop Marvel, which is what I classify things like Hellcat - but NOT Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, since that's about people without powers). #22-25 - wanted to see what Ellis did, and he had the same Jakinta Wagner voice for Nat that he used so well in Secret Avengers, but she didn't really have anything to do. It was a fun Spider-Girl meets all the cool Avengers story, but too tied into events I have no interest in reading for me to really get into it. Also, the art was mostly really cute in that last arc, but they kept putting fill-in artists on it.

    All in all, though, I want to see if I can hunt down physical copies of #12 and 13 (I read them digitally).
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  14. #29
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    I'm really curious why the Major wanted to separate this thread from the Nat appreciation thread?
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
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  15. #30
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I'm really curious why the Major wanted to separate this thread from the Nat appreciation thread?
    Very simply: I wanted to focus on one topic, not sift through 305+ pages (currently 4651 responses) with various entries that cover a whole gamut of things.

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