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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Yeah, I'm not getting the Steve hate, personally. If he was boring in anything, it was Rucka's run, where his only attributes was being drawn comically huge so as to compensate for him not being a superhero, and trying way too hard to be funny. Here he was funny because he was funny, not because he was throwing forced wit and snark six ways from Sunday.

    With a better written Steve, better written Diana, and a plot that thus far makes some semblance of sense, there's basically nothing about this run outside of the art that just two issues in that isn't better than anything Rucka did, imo.
    Oh gods no. Well maybe the over the top muscles in the non-Scott issues. But its not hate for Steve, just the lack of anything interesting around him for the last 6 months
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  2. #77
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm with you more or less on Steve's usage with the exception of this issue. I enjoyed him here. Its just one issue, I don't know what he'll do yet for the rest of it. But I'm hopeful.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I liked it overall, particularly Hercules's letter, but the characters all seem stiff to me. I think it's the dialogue, which isn't an area Robinson has excelled in. I wouldn't go so far say this has gotten more male centric, as we still have Diana as the P.O.V character and the whole reveal surrounding Jason is how it relates to her, but I do hope as the issues progress we get some more ladies in her.

    I'm also eager to get this business out of the way so Robinson can write about something else, even if I see the need to address these dangling plot threads, and it could always be way worse than it is here.
    Simply having a female lead doesn't necessarily make a story approach not male-centric - wouldn't you agree?

    Even if the focus is as you say, "how it relates to her," what is it the story has her relating to? Men, right? The brother that leaves her his stuff. The twin that is "the chosen one."

    And, if Astroman's insightful hunch is correct, ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    I'm calling it now: Blake is Zeus.
    How is daddy-guiding her on her (re)discovery of her daddy-divine-family NOT male-centric?

    Even the title is male-centric. All three main characters - Diana, Grail, Jason - are Amazons - but, the title doesn't care. Grail even introduces herself as "the daughter of Darkseid"? Didn't she have a mother, too? But, why bother mentioning mom - the only person to ever care about her - when you can feed off being daddy's day care, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    With a better written Steve, better written Diana, and a plot that thus far makes some semblance of sense, there's basically nothing about this run outside of the art that just two issues in that isn't better than anything Rucka did, imo.
    Sense? For starters, how does Grail's very existence make sense?
    Last edited by Awonder; 10-12-2017 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #79
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'm with you more or less on Steve' susage...
    It was bigger in the movie, if only because Chris Pine's personality was attached to it. We've got to keep that in mind, but don't think it makes the 'angel this...angel that' any more bearable. For me, that was a step, backward, for Steve, ..no matter the size of his part in the story.
    FINALLY! The greatest comic book movie, ever made... The ORIGIN of the GOLDEN AGE WONDER BOY!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    It was bigger in the movie, if only because Chris Pine's personality was attached to it. We've got to keep that in mind, but don't think it makes the 'angel this...angel that' any more bearable. For me, that was a step, backward, for Steve, ..no matter the size of his part in the story.
    I like it when Steve calls her Angel. I don't think movie Steve ever did, but I could be wrong.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I like it when Steve calls her Angel.
    Me, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    "What a nice note filled with all the answers" WHAM! "Hercules is my brother" WHAM! "I'm the daughter of Zeus" WHAM! "I have a twin" WHAM! "He'll make me whole" WHAM! Wait, what? "Here's a map to find him" WHAM! "Let's fly there now" WHAM! "Here he is" WHAM! "He has a mullet" WHAM!
    Thanks for the laugh. But, I would change the WHAM! to BARF!

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    It was bigger in the movie, if only because Chris Pine's personality was attached to it. We've got to keep that in mind, but don't think it makes the 'angel this...angel that' any more bearable. For me, that was a step, backward, for Steve, ..no matter the size of his part in the story.
    Pine was working with a great script, but that also is part of the problem.

    But while there are moments of real drama, Steve also provides a lot of the laughs, which is definitely missing from his personality here. I saw the movie 7 times in theater and "above average" got a laugh EVERY time.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
    Big questions that needs answering, why was Jason kept a secret?
    Continuity is all screwed up, but it could be for the same reason why Diana was kept a secret: Hera was going around killing all of Zeus' children.

    What I don't get is how Hercules went from being trapped in another dimension for thousands (?) of years, as seen in the Aquaman series, to being someone who has amassed a fortune and has lived in those mountains for years to the point that everyone knew him and really liked him. Are there two guys named Hercules? Is one a "fake?" Was it just a case of the writer not knowing about what happened in Aquaman?

    Do you guys think DC will use Grail to kill off Diana's demi-god siblings that Azzarello introduced, or are they just forgotten? Do they still exsist?

    Diana and her world seem to be developing a case of DTS (Donna Troy Syndrome).
    Last edited by pad; 10-13-2017 at 10:38 PM. Reason: deleted incomplete sentence
    Not Peter David.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Yeah, that all sounds pretty blah to me, sorry. Movie never would have made $800M without tension.
    Not satisfied with Steve's treatment here, or with Rucka or anywhere else. It still seems stuck in Wonder Woman's boyfriend territory.

    Again, by all rights, Steve is part and parcel of the Wonder Woman mythos; he's literally the personification of what she's here to fight against. That SHOULD spark a lot more friction, head-butting and (above all) learning/evolution for BOTH characters.

  10. #85
    Incredible Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pad View Post
    Continuity is all screwed up, but it could be for the same reason why Diana was kept a secret: Hera was going around killing all of Zeus' children. Jason is

    What I don't get is how Hercules went from being trapped in another dimension for thousands (?) of years, as seen in the Aquaman series, to being someone who has amassed a fortune and has lived in those mountains for years to the point that everyone knew him and really liked him. Are there two guys named Hercules? Is one a "fake?" Was it just a case of the writer not knowing about what happened in Aquaman?

    Do you guys think DC will use Grail to kill off Diana's demi-god siblings that Azzarello introduced, or are they just forgotten? Do they still exsist?

    Diana and her world seem to be developing a case of DTS (Donna Troy Syndrome).
    Yeah, Justice League almost seems set in its own universe at times, the way its written. Like the author and editor(s) for Justice League, and everyone else are on different pages.

  11. #86
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I was kinda hoping Sensation Comics' Sargon the Sorcerer or Jason Blood would wind up being her twin. Oh, well...
    FINALLY! The greatest comic book movie, ever made... The ORIGIN of the GOLDEN AGE WONDER BOY!

  12. #87
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    Don't see the male-centric perspective. For two thirds of the movie Diana spends her time surrounded by men. She and Etta barely interact, and the only time she spends time on screen with Poison is for 30 seconds when she is deciding whether or not to kill her.

    That's not to say the plot is wowing me - it isn't - but I don't see this as a valid point.

    I am certainly not a fan of the idea that if Wonder Woman is provided information by a person with testicles that is makes her less relevant as a character.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Don't see the male-centric perspective.
    Ok, let's start with a fairly simple question: is patriarchy an egalitarian system?

    For two thirds of the movie Diana spends her time surrounded by men. She and Etta barely interact, and the only time she spends time on screen with Poison is for 30 seconds when she is deciding whether or not to kill her.
    Not a great example. Who gets showcased for the first 30 minutes or so: men or women? Doesn't that work as a juxtaposition with the rest of the movie? Does this story have something akin to the first 30 minutes of the movie?

    I am certainly not a fan of the idea that if Wonder Woman is provided information by a person with testicles that is makes her less relevant as a character.
    Because WW is only "provided information by a" man? That's all you see?

    For fun and charity, I propose a contest: if Astroman is correct, as I suspect, and the tag along lawyer is more than just a lawyer (either Zeus or Hermes on behalf of Zeus) then, you donate to UNICEF (or similar charitable cause). If it turns out he's just a lawyer (taking up too much page time), then I make a donation. No receipts, just honor among WW fans. Deal?

  14. #89
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwangung View Post
    Not satisfied with Steve's treatment here, or with Rucka or anywhere else. It still seems stuck in Wonder Woman's boyfriend territory.

    Again, by all rights, Steve is part and parcel of the Wonder Woman mythos; he's literally the personification of what she's here to fight against. That SHOULD spark a lot more friction, head-butting and (above all) learning/evolution for BOTH characters.
    I'm not saying Steve is magically fixed in one issue, but I did think this one was an improvement, with potential for the future. Yeah he wasn't super duper important here but he had some personality, and charm can go a long way sometimes. I don't know what Robinson plans to do with him going forward, maybe it ends up being a big fat nothing like we've gotten before, but I'm hopeful.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awonder View Post
    Ok, let's start with a fairly simple question: is patriarchy an egalitarian system?

    Not a great example. Who gets showcased for the first 30 minutes or so: men or women? Doesn't that work as a juxtaposition with the rest of the movie? Does this story have something akin to the first 30 minutes of the movie?

    Because WW is only "provided information by a" man? That's all you see?

    For fun and charity, I propose a contest: if Astroman is correct, as I suspect, and the tag along lawyer is more than just a lawyer (either Zeus or Hermes on behalf of Zeus) then, you donate to UNICEF (or similar charitable cause). If it turns out he's just a lawyer (taking up too much page time), then I make a donation. No receipts, just honor among WW fans. Deal?
    What?

    So we're saying that Wonder Woman has to be written like A-Force, where every character who has any impact on the story is a woman?

    How is that equal? And the point of your bet seems to be to get me to agree that the inclusion of Hercule in the story is a bad thing. Yeah, he could be more than a mortal, but the question would be is that terrible?

    The problem with this issue for me is there is a lot of exposition, not who gives it. It feels to me like if Hercule were a woman people wouldn't be complaining, but I would still be thinking 'meh'.

    I will say that it is intriguing that in an issue in which Hercules features large, a new player in the story so far is one that looks like a character named 'Hercule', which is the French version of the Roman name
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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