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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Never said anything about Darkseid or Grail. That story could have been part of the retcon-or-whatever-the-hell-rebirth-warped-into, or not. All it is now is a way to completely f-up Diana's story, which was re-established by Rucka, and apparently, ignored, or retconned. And in his story, the 'ONE THING' that changed was that the QUEEN WHO HAD THE AFFAIR WITH ZEUS never existed, neither did her friends, her murderous siren Amazons, the boy children who were left to Hephaestus, etc...regardless of hair color...she did not exist.

    The whole thing has been made clear as mud now.

    When did he take the affair away? Which issue? Which interview? From what I remembered it just wasn’t mentioned. The main focus was that she couldn’t find her way home.

  2. #62
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I enjoyed it, very much in agreement with Sacred's points.

    I don't see the conversations between Steve and Diana as "boring"...this feels very much like what I prefer to see in comic book couples...good strong durability, getting along, no real tension or strife. It's pretty welcoming. Lois and Clark have their appeal due in part to Lois complimenting Clark with her fiestinees, but two people with less drama and more love and loyalty to one another can mesh just as well...I also come to WW books for something a little different than her love life anyway, so the stability doesn't easily bore me.
    Yeah, I'm not getting the Steve hate, personally. If he was boring in anything, it was Rucka's run, where his only attributes was being drawn comically huge so as to compensate for him not being a superhero, and trying way too hard to be funny. Here he was funny because he was funny, not because he was throwing forced wit and snark six ways from Sunday.

    With a better written Steve, better written Diana, and a plot that thus far makes some semblance of sense, there's basically nothing about this run outside of the art that just two issues in that isn't better than anything Rucka did, imo.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-12-2017 at 10:17 AM.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Never said anything about Darkseid or Grail. That story could have been part of the retcon-or-whatever-the-hell-rebirth-warped-into, or not. It should have been handled elsewhere or ignored.
    It could, but now it's here instead and it's not unreasonable for it to be.

    All it is now is a way to completely messed Diana's story, which was re-established by Rucka, apparently, only to be ignored, or retconned.
    Rucka's run is still canon, Diana even mentioned it in the last issue.

    And in his story, the 'ONE THING' that changed was that the Queen who had the affair with Zeus never existed, neither did her friends, her murderous siren Amazons, the boy children who were left to Hephaestus, etc...regardless of hair color...she did not exist, so how could her twin children exist...it makes no sense now.
    What changed was who the Amazons were and where they live, nothing else and that was crystal clear by the end of Rucka's run. Otherwise Diana would never have been able to even find or enter Ares' tree because she would not be a demigod if she was made out of clay again, that was part of the system and why Cale needed Cheetah.

  4. #64
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisAsh View Post
    When did he take the affair away? Which issue? Which interview? From what I remembered it just wasn’t mentioned. The main focus was that she couldn’t find her way home.
    He took away the entire storyline...the fake Queen, the fake Amazons, the fake Island, the fake Gods...all of it. So, if the fake Zeus didn't exist, and the fake Queen didn't exist, then the fake birth wouldn't exist or the fake twins.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member RealWonderman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    It could, but now it's here instead and it's not unreasonable for it to be.



    Rucka's run is still canon, Diana even mentioned it in the last issue.



    What changed was who the Amazons were and where they live, nothing else and that was crystal clear by the end of Rucka's run. Otherwise Diana would never have been able to even find or enter Ares' tree because she would not be a demigod if she was made out of clay again, that was part of the system and why Cale needed Cheetah.

    Somewhere in the middle of Rucka's story they changed their minds. Because if none of the players existed...fake Zeus, fake Hippolyta, fake Themyscira, fake Amazons, the other fake gods, etc...then fake twins wouldn't exist either. Or Myrina, or Grail.

    It's insane to me that we're just supposed to somehow understand that 'some of it' exists while 'some of it' doesn't, and it comes down to whatever someone thinks fits the story, one issue after the next...and we get no clear explanation as to what happened or not. And now we have no timeline, no idea who or what existed or didn't, even though the storylines were named The Truth and The Lies.

    Better title: The Who the Hell Knows or Cares Because It Will Probably Be Different Next Issue book. WONDER Woman had never been more appropriately titled...as in I WONDER what the hell is going on week to week.
    It's not about 'deserve' it's about what you believe. And I believe in Love.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    He took away the entire storyline...the fake Queen, the fake Amazons, the fake Island, the fake Gods...all of it. So, if the fake Zeus didn't exist, and the fake Queen didn't exist, then the fake birth wouldn't exist or the fake twins.
    He just changed what didn’t work. Rucka’s goal was to clean up some things and make Diana’s history all fit into one. But he never said which origin is back and what’s not back. That’s just assuming

  7. #67
    Invincible Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Nothing was cleaned up though. Things are more confusing now than they've ever been. Its just perplexing why DC coveted Rucka in the first place to the point that they'd allow him to have carte blanche with most everything except the birth, but also allow him to just not reference it at all since he didn't like it, leaving it till much later to make sense of it all. It's just counter-productive from all angles.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-12-2017 at 10:52 AM.
    They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son. - Jor-El.

  8. #68
    Spectacular Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisAsh View Post
    He just changed what didn’t work. Rucka’s goal was to clean up some things and make Diana’s history all fit into one. But he never said which origin is back and what’s not back. That’s just assuming
    I agree and we have a few facts to back that up.

    1) Geoff Johns is the CCO of DC and is the 'showrunner' for all things Rebirth.
    2) The Rebirth special (written by Johns) mentions Diana's twin brother and the Darkseid War (also written by Johns).
    3) Rucka in early interviews mentions that there are certain things he was told he cannot change.
    4) Rucka never addresses the Zeus origin specifically.
    5) In "Titans" we still have the New 52 origins of Diana and Donna (Diana is 'flesh and blood' while Donna was made out of clay).
    6) "Metal" still has a baby Darkseid and references the Darkseid War.
    7) Robinson now is addressing the Jason storyline and Zeus parentage which never went away.

    I think it's clear that while Rucka might have *wanted* to retcon the Zeus origin, the powers that be at DC never intended for that and always were going to keep the N52 origin... it's just that Rucka was given just enough rope to be confusing with.
    Last edited by Astroman; 10-12-2017 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Clarity

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWonderman View Post
    Somewhere in the middle of Rucka's story they changed their minds. Because if none of the players existed...fake Zeus, fake Hippolyta, fake Themyscira, fake Amazons, the other fake gods, etc...then fake twins wouldn't exist either. Or Myrina, or Grail.
    You forget one massive thing here: All of the 'Lies' in that story was about the Amazons and Diana's inability to remember the real ones, none of that changes anything about the Gods (who we know can change appearance at will) or where she came from.

    It's insane to me that we're just supposed to somehow understand that 'some of it' exists while 'some of it' doesn't, and it comes down to whatever someone thinks fits the story, one issue after the next...and we get no clear explanation as to what happened or not. And now we have no timeline, no idea who or what existed or didn't, even though the storylines were named The Truth and The Lies.
    Thats how comics have been written for nearly a hundred years now, it's not new to the industry and its not new to this book either.

    Better title: The Who the Hell Knows or Cares Because It Will Probably Be Different Next Issue book. WONDER Woman had never been more appropriately titled...as in I WONDER what the hell is going on week to week.
    And it's all very exciting is it not?

  10. #70
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    I can't comment on the issue because I only buy the trade (preferably hard cover deluxe') when it comes out.
    Looking at previews, I can only shake my head in how drastic the art was form this and the previous issue.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    They didn't change their minds in the middle of Rucka's run about the Zeus origin, it was something DC wanted to keep. Read between the lines of what Nicola Scott said in April 2016: https://youtu.be/dSDv9MomtGk?t=2m07s

  12. #72
    Spectacular Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    They didn't change their minds in the middle of Rucka's run about the Zeus origin, it was something DC wanted to keep. Read between the lines of what Nicola Scott said in April 2016: https://youtu.be/dSDv9MomtGk?t=2m07s
    Good find. In light of everything that's happened since, it's hard not to see that the Zeus parentage is what she's referencing.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astroman View Post
    Good find. In light of everything that's happened since, it's hard not to see that the Zeus parentage is what she's referencing.
    Case closed then.

  14. #74
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    The cover and the Hercules letter pages were quite good character bits but I`m not feeling the rest here yet. Really glad Robinson hasn`t tainted the Unbound wth being a villain.

    Outside of that, the Hercule Poirot character is what holds interest, much more than any twin brother mistery. He`s almost clearly Zeus in disguise.
    White Tiger P.O.C
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    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    I enjoyed it, very much in agreement with Sacred's points.

    I don't see the conversations between Steve and Diana as "boring"...this feels very much like what I prefer to see in comic book couples...good strong durability, getting along, no real tension or strife. It's pretty welcoming. Lois and Clark have their appeal due in part to Lois complimenting Clark with her fiestinees, but two people with less drama and more love and loyalty to one another can mesh just as well...I also come to WW books for something a little different than her love life anyway, so the stability doesn't easily bore me.
    Yeah, that all sounds pretty blah to me, sorry. Movie never would have made $800M without tension.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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