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  1. #76
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Yep, IDW collections. Of the material produced before the 70s, I think my nostalgia from discovery will always make the newspapers best to me. But I can't help expecting to like the golden age more than what I know from feedback.

    The thing that interests me about the Bronze age being popular is how non rough and tumble he was. The Fleischer cartoons are enormously popular, maybe the most beloved of Superman in regards to other media. And yet quite different from what he'd become by the point of 40 years later.

  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Yep, IDW collections. Of the material produced before the 70s, I think my nostalgia from discovery will always make the newspapers best to me. But I can't help expecting to like the golden age more than what I know from feedback.

    The thing that interests me about the Bronze age being popular is how non rough and tumble he was. The Fleischer cartoons are enormously popular, maybe the most beloved of Superman in regards to other media. And yet quite different from what he'd become by the point of 40 years later.
    Well, I don't know if this is a proper parallel, because my knowledge of the character is a tad limited, but I think Blue Marvel (of Ultimates and Mighty Avengers fame) is a great, modern take on Bronze Age Superman. He's more "scientist" and "explorer" and "diplomat" than he is "crime fighter." But my god is he powerful, and on the rare occasion he really cuts loose? It's actually a little scary.

    But again, I dont know Blue Marvel that well, so maybe Im wrong here. But just from what Ive seen, this seems to be the case.

    It just goes to show, people like Superman. He can be a two-fisted dispenser of street justice or a cosmic Renaissance Man making first contact with wild sci-fi aliens. As long as his core is "Superman" people will like it.
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  3. #78
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Eh... I like the first chapter, and it's good that it's been reprinted several times. Strong start. The ending bits I've read about, and own through the best of DC digest (admittedly not the best presentation) . The strikes are a bad use of Superman crying and taking away the powers. That's twofold since the rest of the era was defined by his massive power and trippy adventures. Those powers aren't required for a good story but I personally didn't get the impression that they were being replaced with anything of strong storytelling substance. But who knows? At least it's easy to believe that this direction would have made crisis moot.

    Golden age is definitely my big blank spot. I don't feel that the gist is at all good enough and I'll definitely jump in headfirst this holiday season.
    Yeah, I definitely don't think "Kryptonite Nevermore" is the apex of the era or anything. In fact, I think parts of it are kind of really bad, like how Superman gets head trauma that then sticks with him after he gets his powers back until he loses them again so he can... heal... better? It never made any sense to me. That said, I love the Quarrmer, and I love the idea of an event that makes Kryptonite a non-issue, because I largely dislike Kryptonite. It's just a good starting point for a period of Superman comics that in some ways seems like an extension of the Silver Age with all its whimsy and in others a precursor to more mature storytelling in a contemporary mold. It's the era itself I like, not necessarily all the story I used as a symbol of it.

    With regards to Bronze Age Superman being so non-rough-and-tumble, it's true that he can be, but unlike during the Silver Age, Superman would in fact throw a punch occasionally, and he was a little less afraid to get political than during either the Silver Age or the post-Crisis period, which I always appreciate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Other than the modern, post-Crisis era that I actually experienced as it happened, I think the Golden Age is the era I am most familiar with.....got several collections from the old comics as well as the Sundays on my shelf.

    Which might explain why I enjoy a rougher, tougher Superman with more attitude than some of you guys.
    Ha! Same for me. I picked up Superman: The Dailies 1939-1942 when I was like thirteen or so, and it became one of my foundational texts for the character. Might explain why we tend to agree on certain issues regarding "roughneck" Superman!

    61YH5PHM4HL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  4. #79
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, I don't know if this is a proper parallel, because my knowledge of the character is a tad limited, but I think Blue Marvel (of Ultimates and Mighty Avengers fame) is a great, modern take on Bronze Age Superman. He's more "scientist" and "explorer" and "diplomat" than he is "crime fighter." But my god is he powerful, and on the rare occasion he really cuts loose? It's actually a little scary.

    But again, I dont know Blue Marvel that well, so maybe Im wrong here. But just from what Ive seen, this seems to be the case.

    It just goes to show, people like Superman. He can be a two-fisted dispenser of street justice or a cosmic Renaissance Man making first contact with wild sci-fi aliens. As long as his core is "Superman" people will like it.
    There's a good idea of Superman there. Although I think Adam is a super intelligent man instead of a man with super intelligence. Superman in all his incarnations, to me, seems like a guy who would punch a problem if he really thought it made sense rather than preferring another way. It's something I love. I'm quite behind on the recently finished Ultimates, but I see Adam as a guy too busy with other stuff to really think much about punching his problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    With regards to Bronze Age Superman being so non-rough-and-tumble, it's true that he can be, but unlike during the Silver Age, Superman would in fact throw a punch occasionally, and he was a little less afraid to get political than during either the Silver Age or the post-Crisis period, which I always appreciate.
    I think the idea of post crisis was a golden bronze age. Unfortunately, maybe he got too political early on, haha. But I mean as in he him being made of the bronze stuff in a more golden atmosphere. The departure from Silver though I think is pretty much for the best all over, not to throw the fifties and sixties completely under the bus.

  5. #80
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Ha! Same for me. I picked up Superman: The Dailies 1939-1942 when I was like thirteen or so, and it became one of my foundational texts for the character. Might explain why we tend to agree on certain issues regarding "roughneck" Superman!

    61YH5PHM4HL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
    Ha! Nice. I think I have that same collection actually, though my cover might be different.

    No wonder we agree on Superman so often.
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  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    There's a good idea of Superman there. Although I think Adam is a super intelligent man instead of a man with super intelligence. Superman in all his incarnations, to me, seems like a guy who would punch a problem if he really thought it made sense rather than preferring another way. It's something I love. I'm quite behind on the recently finished Ultimates, but I see Adam as a guy too busy with other stuff to really think much about punching his problems.
    Ohh, good point. Yeah, I totally see that.

    Like I said, I'm not crazy well versed with Adam. I figure I've read a little less than half of his appearances under Ewing's pen and thats it, so my grasp on him isn't tight.
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  7. #82
    Fantastic Member Jon-El's Avatar
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    I'm a huge fan of Bronze Age Superman. I enjoyed the post Crisis years a lot but the 70's is my time. The writers maintained all the silver age continuity and updated where necessary. The villains were actually threatening. That's what I remember most about that period. Superman was still insanely powerful but his foes could still push him.

  8. #83
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    One of my criteria for a best version of Superman is "fights Brainiac a lot," and he definitely did that in the bronze age. Superman and his antagonists felt like they could do almost anything. There were a lot of one off villains, and most were honestly duds, but he had some fun ones too and a strong circle of fun regular villains.

  9. #84
    Amazing Member GMiller's Avatar
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    To me, I think the "Triangle Era" Superman is the best...The stories were epic, the supporting cast was fantastic, and I loved Clark.....Great overall...

  10. #85
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I think the idea of post crisis was a golden bronze age. Unfortunately, maybe he got too political early on, haha. But I mean as in he him being made of the bronze stuff in a more golden atmosphere. The departure from Silver though I think is pretty much for the best all over, not to throw the fifties and sixties completely under the bus.
    That's sort of interesting, as I think that the post-Crisis period is so different from the Golden Age as to be almost irreconcilable. It's hard for me to remember that it was kind of influenced by the Golden Age. Part of it is just that I think that the post-Crisis Superman tried to be apolitical in a way that made him come across as more in favor of the status quo than makes sense for Superman-in-general, whereas the Golden Age Superman was such a New Deal type character, and that's part of what I love about him. The '50s and '60s also try to be apolitical and wind up at "vaguely Republican", much like the early post-Crisis Superman seemed to do. I'd definitely never say Supes was too political early on in the Golden Age, more like he lost his politics to his own detriment, and very occasionally gets them back to his benefit.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    One of my criteria for a best version of Superman is "fights Brainiac a lot," and he definitely did that in the bronze age. Superman and his antagonists felt like they could do almost anything. There were a lot of one off villains, and most were honestly duds, but he had some fun ones too and a strong circle of fun regular villains.
    Super-villains are a lot of fun, and I definitely agree that the Bronze Age is full of tons of great ones! I even like a lot of the one-off villains. In my opinion most of what makes a villain memorable is a decision to use them again, so in some ways I think some of the one-off duds are only duds because they were one-offs. Then again, you can definitely get one-hit wonders like Black Adam, who really only had like three appearances pre-Crisis, so what do I know? I definitely like Brainiac. In fact I see Brainiac as Superman's Arch-Nemesis, much more than Luthor or Darkseid is. I don't know if I think Superman and Brainiac should fight each other a lot- more like I think that whenever they fight, it should be a Big Deal.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  11. #86
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    nvm .
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  12. #87
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    That's sort of interesting, as I think that the post-Crisis period is so different from the Golden Age as to be almost irreconcilable. It's hard for me to remember that it was kind of influenced by the Golden Age. Part of it is just that I think that the post-Crisis Superman tried to be apolitical in a way that made him come across as more in favor of the status quo than makes sense for Superman-in-general, whereas the Golden Age Superman was such a New Deal type character, and that's part of what I love about him. The '50s and '60s also try to be apolitical and wind up at "vaguely Republican", much like the early post-Crisis Superman seemed to do. I'd definitely never say Supes was too political early on in the Golden Age, more like he lost his politics to his own detriment, and very occasionally gets them back to his benefit.
    I didn't mean the golden age version but rather how people call Byrne's Superman the Reagan hero. Which is what Byrne himself said. I didn't find it distracting but I guess for some that's a case of politics leaning too heavy on the character. He did also stomp on the Quraci military, whether that's really a right wing approach or not. But socially the comics moved away from where you could say they delivered that party line, introducing conservative blowhards like Dirk and Keith (the office racist, not the sweet kid) in jest.



    I chiefly like that the focus was brought back to human interaction even when not related to the main plot. The slice of life stuff could almost make you forget about the crazy comic stuff. For the cast, while there were plenty at the DP, there was also homeless Pete, Keith the orphan, Jose the ghetto schoolteacher, Maggie sharing custody of her daughter, Cat getting Adam, Jimmy's generation coming of age, Bibbo in the bar, etc. Metropolis the city, including suicide slum, was where Superman had his heart. That makes me think a bit of the golden age. I mentioned this in another thread, how (mostly through Stern and Weezy; the other creators more often tackled Kirby stuff) he was best known as the people's champ.



    Doomsday watching the wrestling match and heading to Metropolis is a little silly but plays into that. Because ultimately Doomsday sought to beat the people's champ at home and Superman said, "no way is this guy leaving my stadium with the belt." Massacre also tried right after but his butt kicking was more thorough.

    There's a comic called One Piece where the main character's ability to make allies is called the most dangerous ability in the world by more powerful characters. This is what I think puts Superman at his best, how he inspires the people he saves to return the favor. It was a common thing for him to take his lumps while protecting someone else, and a lot of the times he went down they'd stand in front of the threat on his behalf. Not that he'd really need it, but it could sometimes tip the scales in his favor where it hadn't been and ultimately give those people a chance to be Superman. That idea built the whole character of Mope and later on, that kid Mitch who witnessed his fight with Doomsday forms a superhero team as well.

    In fact I see Brainiac as Superman's Arch-Nemesis, much more than Luthor or Darkseid is. I don't know if I think Superman and Brainiac should fight each other a lot- more like I think that whenever they fight, it should be a Big Deal.
    Sometimes I feel like Brainiac not getting the title of true archenemy makes him better, haha. Like you I don't care to see him a ton, I just want him used when writers feel like they have a killer story as opposed to feeling obligated because of his status.
    Last edited by Kuwagaton; 11-15-2017 at 12:49 AM.

  13. #88
    explorer SXVA's Avatar
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    My answer to everything "best" will always be mid to late 80s and 90s. Such a great period for all things.

    There's a 1991 Superman story called "Executive Action" from Roger Stern and Tom Grummett that's one of my favs.

    Tom Grummett is such an underrated Superman artist.
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/cb/cb/7...-superman-.jpg

    "Waverider touches Superman and investigates another timeline, again with him marrying Lois Lane, but this time stopping Manheim from detonating his nuclear device that would destroy Metropolis. Clark Kent becomes an aide to Pete Ross who is running for president, but while trying to protect Ross from being killed by an assassin, his identity as Superman is exposed. Ross has Kent take his place in the run for the presidency and manages to prevail as he wins the election. While most of the nation seems to favor Superman's actions during his term as the President of the United States, Green Lantern Guy Gardner ends up rebelling and turning against all his allies and contemporaries during a gathering of heroes for one of Superman's presidential decrees. Ultimately in a one-on-one confrontation between him and Guy, Superman used his will to cause Guy's power ring to transfer onto his hand, depowering the Green Lantern long enough for Hal Jordan and John Stewart to intervene and take him away. Though Waverider feared that this could be the point where Superman becomes Monarch, he sees that instead the Kryptonian wisely turns over Guy's power ring to Hal Jordan for him to select a new candidate, knowing how much power can corrupt."

    It was an interesting look at what if Superman was president and Superman wielding a different kind of power (political/social power) and what that could lead to, intertwining with the mystery of is Superman the future Monarch that Waverider has visions of. As i read the story i could see a potential timeline where even Superman was corrupted by power and became a sort of monarch leader when dealing with the power of changing things on that level which i didn't really consider before.

    90s Superboy and Supergirl were awesome and so that also tied into good Superman moments.
    Last edited by SXVA; 11-14-2017 at 09:22 PM.
    I wanna ditch the logical... don't let me let you go...., living for the only thing i know, hanging by a moment... nom nom coffee nom nom tea.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    I didn't mean the golden age version but rather how people call Byrne's Superman the Reagan hero. Which is what Byrne himself said. I didn't find it distracting but I guess for some that's a case of politics leaning too heavy on the character. He did also stomp on the Quraci military, whether that's really a right wing approach or not. But socially the comics moved away from where you could say they delivered that party line, introducing conservative blowhards like Dirk and Keith (the office racist, not the sweet kid) in jest.

    I chiefly like that the focus was brought back to human interaction even when not related to the main plot. The slice of life stuff could almost make you forget about the crazy comic stuff. For the cast, while there were plenty at the DP, there was also homeless Pete, Keith the orphan, Jose the ghetto schoolteacher, Maggie sharing custody of her daughter, Cat getting Adam, Jimmy's generation coming of age, Bibbo in the bar, etc. Metropolis the city, including suicide slum, was where Superman had his heart. That makes me think a bit of the golden age. I mentioned this in another thread, how (mostly through Stern and Weezy; the other creators more often tackled Kirby stuff) he was best known as the people's champ.
    Aaahhh, now I see.

    Yeah, I agree with everything you just said, and in fact I think that all those details, all that almost slice-of-life stuff, is really what puts that era of Superman into being one of the best periods in the character's history, and certainly my favorite version of Metropolis and the supporting cast.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

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