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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Don't forget Men in Black, 30 Days of Night, and Kick Ass
    These are all adaptations of stories. I'm talking about movies based on specific characters that most of the audience is not familiar with.

    To succeed, the writers and director and actors are going to have to keep in mind movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, Wonder Woman and Mad Max: Fury Road. Movies that succeeded despite the fact that they weren't tied to franchises that guaranteed automatic big box office. Red Sonja has been strictly a B-list character, and she will have to rise above that.

  2. #62
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    These are all adaptations of stories. I'm talking about movies based on specific characters that most of the audience is not familiar with.
    That is an incredibly fine line to draw, especially since your example of this, John Carter, was an adaption of a story.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member AndrewCrossett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    That is an incredibly fine line to draw, especially since your example of this, John Carter, was an adaption of a story.
    The movie was called "John Carter." If you didn't know or care who John Carter was, you probably wouldn't go see the movie.

  4. #64
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    The movie was called "John Carter." If you didn't know or care who John Carter was, you probably wouldn't go see the movie.
    Counterpoint: John Wick. Completely new character. Absolutely nobody had ever heard of him. People still went to see it.

    I've read a lot about why John Carter failed to reach an audience. "Nobody knew who John Carter is" generally does not come up in these discussions.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  5. #65
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    I think that part of the problem with John Carter was that Disney did it and heavily toned it down...

  6. #66
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    RE: origin

    one version has her village and family killed and is granted fighting skills and strength by a god as long as she does not lay with a man...unless that man beats her in fair combat

    another has the same village and family killed, and learns to fight as a gladiator
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    These are all adaptations of stories. I'm talking about movies based on specific characters that most of the audience is not familiar with.

    To succeed, the writers and director and actors are going to have to keep in mind movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, Wonder Woman and Mad Max: Fury Road. Movies that succeeded despite the fact that they weren't tied to franchises that guaranteed automatic big box office. Red Sonja has been strictly a B-list character, and she will have to rise above that.
    They're stories from comics featuring characters that the general audience is not familiar with. But ok...

    Blade, Rocketeer ( not a weekend smash but it broke even and has cult following), and I think you could make a case for Wes Craven's Swamp Thing

  8. #68
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I think that part of the problem with John Carter was that Disney did it and heavily toned it down...
    You mean it didn't have boobs?
    No, that was not one of the problems.

    The main issue was the promotion, including the piss-poor trailers that presented the whole thing as a kind of romantic drama instead of Indiana Jones Goes To Mars.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I think that part of the problem with John Carter was that Disney did it and heavily toned it down...
    Doubtful. those books are so old that most of the current audience has no clue what they were originally like.

    And even if they did know more, I doubt that Dejah Thoris not being naked except for some strategically-placed jewelry was going to scare enough people off to make much of a difference (especially since quite a few of her movie outfits still showed off quite a bit of skin anyway).

    No the problem was that the marketing was awful, they gave it the most generic title possible (that did nothing to help explain what it was actually about), and those books are so old and so many creators have borrowed ideas from the over the decades that the movie ironically felt derivative of other sci-fi properties to the average movie-goer (even though in reality the reverse is true).

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Counterpoint: John Wick. Completely new character. Absolutely nobody had ever heard of him. People still went to see it.

    I've read a lot about why John Carter failed to reach an audience. "Nobody knew who John Carter is" generally does not come up in these discussions.
    I'm thinking Keaunu Reeves helped sell John wick a lot.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Doubtful. those books are so old that most of the current audience has no clue what they were originally like.

    And even if they did know more, I doubt that Dejah Thoris not being naked except for some strategically-placed jewelry was going to scare enough people off to make much of a difference (especially since quite a few of her movie outfits still showed off quite a bit of skin anyway).

    No the problem was that the marketing was awful, they gave it the most generic title possible (that did nothing to help explain what it was actually about), and those books are so old and so many creators have borrowed ideas from the over the decades that the movie ironically felt derivative of other sci-fi properties to the average movie-goer (even though in reality the reverse is true).
    I didn't say that alone was the sole reason only one of them, and my view of what was part of the reason had more to do than just whether Dejah was naked or not...kind of like not sure that Disney would be the first studio that I would expect to do a war movie kind of thing...

  12. #72
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    I'm thinking Keaunu Reeves helped sell John wick a lot.
    Does not compute. It's Keanu Reeves.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  13. #73
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    I don't recall anything about Sonja being undefeatable by a man... would make for a pretty uninteresting story, if true.
    I think being a magical power clues you in into how to bypass it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    I don't recall anything about Sonja being undefeatable by a man... would make for a pretty uninteresting story, if true.

    There was a bit about how she would never have sex with any man unless he defeated her in battle first. That was also removed from continuity during the Gail Simone era, along with quite a bit of other gratuitously sexist baggage the character had been saddled with for years.


    IIRC under Simone she kept the chainmail bikini, although it wasn't like the stripper outfit some previous artists had given her. And she dressed appropriately for her environment. (In earlier versions she was perfectly likely to walk through arctic snowfields in that bikini.)

    As I said, the bikini probably won't fly in a movie, but neither will putting her in a pants suit. Wonder Woman, Xena, and the 1985 version of Sonja are all perfectly good templates to use for her costume.
    Heck there was an amusing running gag in her second run where Sonja was so horny (she hadn't slept with anyone in quite a while before that point) that she'd have had sex with pretty much anyone (as long as they were "limber" as she put it). And it had an actual nice payoff by the end.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Does not compute. It's Keanu Reeves.
    Aw, I like Keanu Reeves...

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