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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    It's to me. I liked his time as Robin much more than the rest and he has the best origin as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't want to be involved in this discussion, but I have to say that Damian at least never disrespected the career of his predecessor like Tim did or shat all over him and make up lies to make him look better. They tried to make Tim move on from being Robin multiple times and DC did actually cared enough about him, but they were simply not successful.
    Fair enough, but a majority doesn't seem to think that.

    I disagree, completely, with that, because Damian definitely shat all over Tim, and he did it intentionally and only to prove he was better. And I know thats the case because that was the defining trait of their relationship early on from Damian's POV, in Damian's mind he was the one and only true Robin and Tim was just some poorly stand-in he just had to get rid of so Batman & Robin could be what it was supposed to be.

  2. #77
    Incredible Member Rise's Avatar
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    You honesty would be surprised by how many people that enjoyed his time as Robin.

    Damian is entitled brat who think himself better than anyone else, but in no way did his writers try to make him look like he was in right for the way he treated Tim unlike with Tim's writers where they screwed up Jason to make Tim look better than him and even made up lies about him. Literally no Robin got treated worse by his successor's writters like Jason.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    It's to me. I liked his time as Robin much more than the rest and he has the best origin as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't want to be involved in this discussion, but I have to say that Damian at least never disrespected the career of his predecessor like Tim did or shat all over him and make up lies to make him look better. They tried to make Tim move on from being Robin multiple times and DC did actually cared enough about him, but they were simply not successful.
    That's simply not true. Have you read Tim's minis, solo series or his early days in Batman and Detective? Tim respected Jason a lot. Jason was his role model, just like Dick. In the early days, Tim thought he will never be as good as Jason and Dick were. He idolized both of them. It was after Hush when Tim started to think about Jason in a negative light.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    I would say that the bases were always divided and the original split never truly healed. I guess they hold onto it because the original reasons were never truly mended... Damian showed up, Bruce 'died', Tim was practically booted out of the cave and even when Bruce came back, it didn't feel like it was properly resolved from the perspective of Tim's fans. It was brought to new life with the New 52 and all that crap about Tim simply being somekind of short-lived intern in the Batcave and almost completely detached from it the same way Jason had become. I know atleast that back then I saw it as Damian and Dick being considered the only 'proper' Robins of the new timeline, while Tim and Jason were the outcasts. It didn't help either that DC seemed to try and force people to like Damian by basically putting him into other places and positions Tim had operated in... especially in regards to the Teen Titans, both times mostly composed of people who have been more Tim's friends than they have been Damians.

    But telling fans to just 'get over it' isn't going to be helpful. Plus eventually all of Damian's fans might end up in the same situation when someone new moves into the cave. And you shouldn't say 'never' in this case... since Hal Jordan turned evil and died while being replaced by Kyle Rayner, but concentrated fan-rage brought Jordan back to life and reinstalled as the main Green Lantern. Dick isn't going to return to being Robin obviously, and Jason has carved out his own path as Red Hood (plus his Robin-days were hardly memorable), Tim is the only one that was 'terminated' and still retains the Robin name to a degree... so he might make a return one day. (Come to think of it... which name does he actually go by in Tec?)
    Cough cough ... Duke They already are. Batman's had a new partner since Rebirth.
    I just don't see the need. With something like the TT I always saw them as Dick's friends/ comes with the tower rather than friends Damian stole from Tim. If we were talking Kon and Cassie then I might agree.

    He's Red Robin in Tec. I don't see him returning to Robin. The fan rage isn't there [there's hate but not calls for Tim to become Robin] and Damian's popularity grows by the day. Eventually Damian's will give up Robin but on that day it won't be to Tim rather to new blood.

    Tim doesn't need to be Robin he needs to evolve. Dick got better as Nightwing, Jason got better as Red Hood Tim's growth stalled because DC dropped the ball in moving his after Robin persona forward and in rebirth they regressed him further by dressing him as Robin but not when he already had two successors.

    I would say that Tim needs a new identity but because of the quality of the RR solo I say keep that and continue that book [with some tweeks] have him move his base of operation. Batman has Signal and others on the Tec team to hold the fort down.
    Have him partner with his GF spoiler and make it a book about their personal and crime fighting life.
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 11-07-2017 at 06:07 AM.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You honesty would be surprised by how many people that enjoyed his time as Robin.

    1) Damian is entitled brat who think himself better than anyone else, but in no way did his writers try to make him look like he was in right for the way he treated Tim 2) unlike with Tim's writers where they screwed up Jason to make Tim look better than him and even made up lies about him. Literally no Robin got treated worse by his successor's writters like Jason.
    Quite likely, but I dont see many of them.

    1) No, writers just tend to make people tolerate all the bile and venom Damian could throw around. Heck, they all quietly hushed up the fact Damian actually killed a guy and blew up the head in the cave. 2) Fact remains that Jason's time as Robin and his death had to be treated as a long line of mistakes, partially to justify the claim Tim had to go through so much more than Jason before he actually made his debut as Robin, and partially because being part of the people in the Bat-cave should be something like 'SEAL Astronaut plus' education where the people who graduate do not end up like Jason did. And yes, that may be disrespectful to Jason, but the sad fact is that he is the Robin who died and comics had to make a good reason for why he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Cough cough ... Duke Someone else already moved in there.
    I just don't see the need. With something like the TT I always saw them as Dick's friends/ comes with the tower rather than friends Damian stole from Tim. If we were talking Kon and Cassie then I might agree.

    He's Red Robin in Tec. I don't see him returning to Robin. The fan rage isn't there and Damian's popularity grows by the day.
    Tim doesn't need to be Robin he needs to evolve. Dick got better as Nightwing, Jason got better as Red Hood Tim's growth stalled because DC dropped the ball in moving his after Robin persona forward and in rebirth they regressed him further by dressing him as Robin but not when he already had two successors.

    I would say that Tim needs a new identity but because of the quality of the RR solo I say keep that and continue that book [with some tweeks] have him move his base of operation. Batman has Signal and others on the Tec team to hold the fort down.
    Have him partner with his GF spoiler and make it a book about their personal and crime fighting life.
    Tbh, as I see it, Duke is Snyders project... and much like Talon before him, he will likely fade away once Snyder moves onto something else. Even more so because Duke doesn't appear in books other than in those Snyder is writing... where the Robins are often strangely absent.
    With TT, my own structure... that DC doesn't appear to agree with, is that the Fab Five and NTT members are Dick's friends, the YJ generation is Tim's. Johns dragged a few of the NTT down to Tim's level, and Damian sort of wandered into all of them. I don't like the idea of these characters being part of the tower inventory tbh.

    Dunno about Damian growing in popularity, definitely not in TT where he is one of the most divisive elements with old TT fans thinking he is not the right type of person to be there, and that everyone else is far too old to be taking orders from him. Same goes for the animated movies where the general feel seems to be 'it would be nice if we didn't have to have Damian in this as well'.
    Duke isn't a successor any more than Bluebird or whatever her face was. As for him being Robin... tbh it would sort of make sense simply by returning to the original dynamic of the Dynamic Duo of Batman being the grim one rather than Robin.

    Ehh... dunno if thats whats needed. But then again, I never had a softspot for Stephanie other than when she was teaming up with her few Cassandra Cain team-ups. She was kinda like a Gwen Stacy in a costume, and only really got somewhat interesting when she started being Batgirl... though I do prefer Cassandra in that role.
    Last edited by Outside_85; 11-07-2017 at 06:16 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowsgirl View Post
    That's simply not true. Have you read Tim's minis, solo series or his early days in Batman and Detective? Tim respected Jason a lot. Jason was his role model, just like Dick. In the early days, Tim thought he will never be as good as Jason and Dick were. He idolized both of them. It was after Hush when Tim started to think about Jason in a negative light.
    Really, it was almost as soon as Alan Grant was gone if I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rise View Post
    You honesty would be surprised by how many people that enjoyed his time as Robin.
    RobinJay FTW.

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Jason got better as Red Hood
    HIGHLY debatable.

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Have him partner with his GF spoiler and make it a book about their personal and crime fighting life.
    You realize that no one but Tynion would probably want to write that currently, yes?
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Really, it was almost as soon as Alan Grant was gone if I recall.
    No. Bruce and Dick said bad things about Jason, but Tim didn't do it. He saw Jason as a hero, who died in a battle.

  8. #83
    Mighty Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Really, it was almost as soon as Alan Grant was gone if I recall.



    RobinJay FTW.



    HIGHLY debatable.



    You realize that no one but Tynion would probably want to write that currently, yes?
    Really? Maybe personal preference I wonder which other Jason fan's prefer Robin Jay or Red Hood Jay? Red Hood seems very popular I know Robin Jason wasn't the pariah DC would have us believe but I didn't think he was as liked as The Red Hood

    I just miss Tim's personal life

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Really? Maybe personal preference I wonder which other Jason fan's prefer Robin Jay or Red Hood Jay? Red Hood seems very popular I know Robin Jason wasn't the pariah DC would have us believe but I didn't think he was as liked as The Red Hood
    There's no doubt that Red Hood is more popular. However, from my perspective, as far as the comics go, the Red Hood's career amounts to: A decent return story, every other Pre-FP writer having NO idea what to do with him, multiple awful ongoings in the Nu52, and only now does he star in a really good book which capitalizes on Jason's character.

    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I just miss Tim's personal life
    I feel that.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowsgirl View Post
    That's simply not true. Have you read Tim's minis, solo series or his early days in Batman and Detective? Tim respected Jason a lot. Jason was his role model, just like Dick. In the early days, Tim thought he will never be as good as Jason and Dick were. He idolized both of them. It was after Hush when Tim started to think about Jason in a negative light.
    I think I recall something similar to this when Jason got back from the dead and invaded Titans Tower in a foul mood. Jason was the one complaining about how there wasn't a memorial to him in the Tower, as an ex-Titan, and going how pissed he was that A) he had been replaced and forgotten, and B) replaced by some kid everyone said was that much better.
    Tim's response to all of that was, if I remember correctly, that he was still living in Jason's shadow, that it was nearly impossible to get out from under him. But before Jason knocked him out, he did make the boast he was as good as everyone claimed.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    2) Fact remains that Jason's time as Robin and his death had to be treated as a long line of mistakes, partially to justify the claim Tim had to go through so much more than Jason before he actually made his debut as Robin, and partially because being part of the people in the Bat-cave should be something like 'SEAL Astronaut plus' education where the people who graduate do not end up like Jason did. And yes, that may be disrespectful to Jason, but the sad fact is that he is the Robin who died and comics had to make a good reason for why he did.
    The reason he died is right in the story where it happened. He died because his MOTHER handed him over to the Joker.

    And then the comics and characters, including Tim, decided to victim blame him, and some people still cling to that victim blaming today.

    And at this point, all of the Robins have died, so.
    Last edited by okiedokiewo; 11-07-2017 at 06:30 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokiewo View Post
    The reason he died is right in the story where it happened. He died because his MOTHER handed him over to the Joker.
    This is one of those facts I wish I could just beam into everyone's brain.

    Quote Originally Posted by okiedokiewo View Post
    And then the comics and characters, including Tim, decided to victim blame him.
    Just wanna point out that out of the three Robin deaths, Damian is the only one DC didn't try to disgustingly play the victim blaming card on.
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  13. #88
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    Okay guys, please show me proof that Tim victim blamed Jason before Hush. I don't remember it.

  14. #89
    Incredible Member Rise's Avatar
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    As far as I concerned, both Robin!Jason and Red Hood are great. His time as Robin was extremely enjoyable and his journey as Red Hood is absolutely interesting and wouldn't sacrifice one over the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Quite likely, but I dont see many of them.

    1) No, writers just tend to make people tolerate all the bile and venom Damian could throw around. Heck, they all quietly hushed up the fact Damian actually killed a guy and blew up the head in the cave. 2) Fact remains that Jason's time as Robin and his death had to be treated as a long line of mistakes, partially to justify the claim Tim had to go through so much more than Jason before he actually made his debut as Robin, and partially because being part of the people in the Bat-cave should be something like 'SEAL Astronaut plus' education where the people who graduate do not end up like Jason did. And yes, that may be disrespectful to Jason, but the sad fact is that he is the Robin who died and comics had to make a good reason for why he did.
    I do think Damian doesn't got called enough for all things he has done and keep doing which actually isn't doing him any favors, but my point is that the writers didn't really support his point about Tim like they did with Jason.

    but the sad fact is that he is the Robin who died and comics had to make a good reason for why he did
    He has one, he died to protect his mother and you could use it as reminder that the job is dangerous that you could die without disrespecting him. There was literally no reason or justfiction for it except making Tim look better and that doesn't say good things about him.

  15. #90
    Mighty Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Okay guys, please show me proof that Tim victim blamed Jason before Hush. I don't remember it.
    "The Boys" issue of Dixon's Nightwing, when he refers to Jason as "The Other One".

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