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  1. #361
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInvisibleMan View Post
    because it is largely WHITE MEN who are the perpetrators here

    they are the studio heads, they are the network execs, they are the one sitting in positions of power and have endeavored to keep it that way

    its tough enough for black and brown folks to get in front of the camera, much less behind it
    Yeah, agreed. Much of the discussion had been about men in power as perpetrators. But the vast majority of men in power -- regardless of the topic of sex harrassment -- are indeed white men. They're the primary force behind the creation of laws, major corporations, and the concentration of wealth. So while, in a male-dominated society, most perpetrators of abuse are men, the demographics tighten up when you look at a more specific group. And in this case, it's powerful men.

    Sure, there'll be a Black man accused like John Singleton, but that's one out of, like, a dozen otherwise innocent black directors. Accuse Woody Allen, and, as we've seen, a dozen other white directors pop up as the accused as well. And that's the numbers game.

    But then the other thing, too, is just based on the structure, who are the black and brown directors learning from? Primarily white directors, because they're the predecessors. Sylvester Stallone gave advice Ryan Coogler during Creed just because Stallone had that experience. Spike Lee got pointers from Spielberg and Lucas and is pretty close to Scorcese to this day (imagine all that!). Nothing wrong with that per se, but that's just how time and numbers go. But then imagine a young Black director being taken under the wing of, say, Brett Ratner, and then that rookie starts to learn -- maybe even adopt -- some of his behavior because he's the rookie's idol. That's when power starts to trickle down in a negative.
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
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  2. #362
    Ceiling Belkar stabs you GozertheGozarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieHavoc View Post
    Sourced to Daily Mail, the U.K.'s equivalent of the National Enquirer or Weekly World News.
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    "And that's the essential problem with 'Planetary' right there. When Elijah Snow says, 'The world is a strange place'... he gets Dracula, Doc Savage and Godzilla... When we say it, we get The Captain Fire-Cock Rock 'n' Roll Spectacular."
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  3. #363
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Yeah, agreed. Much of the discussion had been about men in power as perpetrators. But the vast majority of men in power -- regardless of the topic of sex harrassment -- are indeed white men. They're the primary force behind the creation of laws, major corporations, and the concentration of wealth. So while, in a male-dominated society, most perpetrators of abuse are men, the demographics tighten up when you look at a more specific group. And in this case, it's powerful men.

    Sure, there'll be a Black man accused like John Singleton, but that's one out of, like, a dozen otherwise innocent black directors. Accuse Woody Allen, and, as we've seen, a dozen other white directors pop up as the accused as well. And that's the numbers game.

    But then the other thing, too, is just based on the structure, who are the black and brown directors learning from? Primarily white directors, because they're the predecessors. Sylvester Stallone gave advice Ryan Coogler during Creed just because Stallone had that experience. Spike Lee got pointers from Spielberg and Lucas and is pretty close to Scorcese to this day (imagine all that!). Nothing wrong with that per se, but that's just how time and numbers go. But then imagine a young Black director being taken under the wing of, say, Brett Ratner, and then that rookie starts to learn -- maybe even adopt -- some of his behavior because he's the rookie's idol. That's when power starts to trickle down in a negative.
    and while Bill Cosby is a horrible person who deserves to burn in hell, his white bosses at NBC were the ones getting rich off The Cosby Show while keeping his victims quiet

    its a gross ladder
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  4. #364
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by titanfan View Post
    If you scour the internet, twitter, there is a lot of noise. And I do feel there are a lot of cases of people complaining about:
    - Unwanted (but not necessarily inappropriate) advances as sexual harassment.
    - Cases of Sexual Harassment which are definitely harassment, but more of a "Send this person to training or educate them" and not "Get them fired" type of cases.

    There are different levels of harassment and assault, and if you're just a random person reading a threat on reddit or twitter, it can definitely sound very "witch hunt"-like. That said, I think the mainstream media has been doing a pretty good job of going after the "big cases", and so has this thread.
    I started learning about sexual harassment as a teenager (im 38 and this became a thing in the late 80s/early 90s), people today in the workplace should know waaaay before they even step foot in an office what is and what is not appropriate
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

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  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInvisibleMan View Post
    because it is largely WHITE MEN who are the perpetrators here
    Yes, here. Here if you want here to be Hollywood and white men in power exploiting women who come to Hollywood looking for success and fame. And that's maybe what this thread is about. But I was thinking of the world and everyone in it. I don't believe it helps if the converssation is confined to this one small segment in this one small area. It makes it easier for people to stick their head in the sand and just say that's Hollywood for you.

    It helps if we understand that this is happening to everyone in the world all the time and many of us can relate it to our personal experiences. But when you say all those other experiences are not the point of the conversation then it makes us feel excluded, like we don't exist in this debate. It's just the famous and the powerful that exist. Which is itself an abusive pattern of thought.

    It's better to recognize all the men and women that don't neatly fit the narrative, if you want to appeal to everyone's collective sympathies. I think that's why the stories about Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Allison Mack woke people. They weren't who we thought they were. Harvey Weinstein was.
    In einem unbekannten Land vor gar nicht allzu langer Zeit war eine Biene sehr bekannt von der sprach alles weit und breit. Und diese Biene die ich meine nennt sich Maja, kleine freche schlaue Biene Maja.
    Maja fliegt durch ihre Welt zeigt uns das was ihr gefällt. Wir treffen heute uns're Freundin Biene Maja, diese kleine freche Biene Maja. Maja allerliebste Maja--Maja, Maja erzähle uns von dir.

  6. #366
    Invincible Member TheInvisibleMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Yes, here. Here if you want here to be Hollywood and white men in power exploiting women who come to Hollywood looking for success and fame. And that's maybe what this thread is about. But I was thinking of the world and everyone in it. I don't believe it helps if the converssation is confined to this one small segment in this one small area. It makes it easier for people to stick their head in the sand and just say that's Hollywood for you.

    It helps if we understand that this is happening to everyone in the world all the time and many of us can relate it to our personal experiences. But when you say all those other experiences are not the point of the conversation then it makes us feel excluded, like we don't exist in this debate. It's just the famous and the powerful that exist. Which is itself an abusive pattern of thought.

    It's better to recognize all the men and women that don't neatly fit the narrative, if you want to appeal to everyone's collective sympathies. I think that's why the stories about Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and Allison Mack woke people. They weren't who we thought they were. Harvey Weinstein was.
    and that's an important conversation to have, its the prime reason we shouldn't pedestal celebrities

    because they are humans too, and humans are trash

    we are awful to each other when given the opportunity

    and Im not trying to limit any conversation, what I am trying to say is that sexual harrassment and assault is a wide ranging problem with various victims and perpetrators, but there is nothing hostile or bad about pointing out that in specific areas of this horrible situation, WHITE MEN are the ones doing the horrid s**t by a large margin

    Im a victim myself, I was assaulted when I saw in the USN - I was 20 at the time, and the person who assaulted me basically threatened me and if I didnt go along, life would become very difficult, and its an awful feeling that I am only NOW dealing with
    “If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”

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  7. #367
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with Catherine Deneuve there.

    While there are agressions that have taken places for a long time, it sort of feel like some sort of frenzy or glee for some parties to shame men. This has been going on for a while in television in particular. And sometime on shows like the View and so forth, it's like they are ready to hang men on a daily basis. And their audience screams like crazy for it.

    And it's interesting that the pushback come from Europe as to me the men hatred element has mainly been American-based. Maybe it's going back to the old New England/pilgrim-based puritanism.
    Last edited by Da Boat; 01-10-2018 at 10:43 PM.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Boat View Post
    I don't disagree with Catherine Deneuve there.

    While there are agressions that have taken places for a long time, it sort of feel like some sort of frenzy or glee for some parties to shame men. This has been going on for a while in television in particular. And sometime on shows like the View and so forth, it's like they are ready to hang men on a daily basis. And their audience screams like crazy for it.

    And it's interesting that the pushback come from Europe as to me the men hatred element has mainly been American-based. Maybe it's going back to the old New England/pilgrim-based puritanism.
    I don't think that The View is particularly anti-male. And while it's probably inevitable that there'll be people taking advantage or trying to cash in on the MeToo movement, speaking out about sexual harassment isn't the same as man-bashing. There's a big difference between stealing a kiss or being persistent with a girl playing hard to get and locking a door with a co-worker and making them watch you masterbate.

  9. #369
    Bishop was right. Sighphi's Avatar
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    James Franco is getting slammed with accusations.

  10. #370
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Michael Douglas is accused, but immediately comes out with a strong defense.

  11. #371
    Astonishing Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Writer Megan Ganz accused Dan Harmon of harassment. After several exchanges both in person and over Twitter, Harmon detailed what he did and acknowledged it all. Essentially, Harmon apologized in the best way possible, which Ganz acknowledged and forgave on Twitter.

    No doubt, what Harmon did was shitty, but at least he's showing redemption and hopefully that sets an example on how to apologize -- what Ganz termed as, "A master class in how to apologize." She wasn't looking for money or revenge, just acknowledgement and vindication, and change. It's a very good move on Harmon's part, but I also feel like it's on par with how insightful his writing tends to be.

    ---

    In other news, China's building its own #metoo movement, called #WoYeShi, designed to deal with harassment within their own culture. My experience is very anecdotal, but I started noticing more movies dealing with harassment/assault as the primary plot coming from China about 10 years ago, in particular a couple of Tony Leung's films. I've no idea how long or how many movies have dealt with it, but it's a natural convergence of both #metoo as well as issues within China's own film industry that various filmmakers and actresses have been trying to bring up for decades.
    "Until the lion learns to write, every story will glorify the hunter."
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  12. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    Michael Douglas is accused, but immediately comes out with a strong defense.
    he's a pretty easy target. he has played a lot of amoral individuals. he's also pretty loose in interviews. guess what I'm saying is that i wouldn't be surprised if he had sexually harassed someone. and i wouldn't be surprised if someone was just smearing him.
    Quote Originally Posted by somacula View Post
    Because its fun, not as fun as the liberal meltdown but close
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  13. #373
    Mighty Member Da Boat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    I don't think that The View is particularly anti-male. And while it's probably inevitable that there'll be people taking advantage or trying to cash in on the MeToo movement, speaking out about sexual harassment isn't the same as man-bashing. There's a big difference between stealing a kiss or being persistent with a girl playing hard to get and locking a door with a co-worker and making them watch you masterbate.
    I think those shows always have an anti-dude vibe to them with most conversations. They'll start talking about some dude that lost in his money in a divorced and they go yes! And it becomes a frenzy.

    But as far as your agrression example, I agree.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Boat View Post
    I think those shows always have an anti-dude vibe to them with most conversations. They'll start talking about some dude that lost in his money in a divorced and they go yes! And it becomes a frenzy.
    I look at a lot of that as just women being catty. Men do the same thing.

    "And then the broad had the nerve to take me to court!"

    "Yeah...women!"

  15. #375
    Ceiling Belkar stabs you GozertheGozarian's Avatar
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    Da Boat is an apologist, if not full on MRA.
    "I rhyme with tyre
    And cause pollution
    I think you'll find
    It's the best solution

    What Am I?"


    "And that's the essential problem with 'Planetary' right there. When Elijah Snow says, 'The world is a strange place'... he gets Dracula, Doc Savage and Godzilla... When we say it, we get The Captain Fire-Cock Rock 'n' Roll Spectacular."
    ~ Pól Rua

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