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  1. #31
    Spectacular Member DavidRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    We're not a judge or jury, we don't abide by an assumption of innocence.
    You are a lynch mob then.
    Brexit now!

  2. #32
    Lv 67 Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Exactly.

    Take George Takai for example. He's been accused of sexual assault. Word is he brought some aspiring actor half his age home, drugged him, and tried to rape him.

    Ready to unfollow Takai yet? Ready to call him out as a sexual predator who should be shunned by society and thrown down a well?

    You might want to wait a second, because if you do a little digging into the guy who made this accusation (like my wife did), you'll find that he's done this before, and had to come out and admit that the entire story was fabricated. He just wanted his 15 minutes of fame and was willing to ruin someone's life to get it. He told a damning lie with no basis in reality for personal gain. And he tells his Takai story just now, right when this whole thing starts heating up? Sounds suspicious as hell to me, personally.

    Can we really believe him when he says these things about Takai now?

    I'm not saying people like Ratner or Berganza are innocent like George Takai (probably?) is. Im saying accusations aren't evidence and these are the kinds of accusations that ruin lives, families, and careers. Not to be taken lightly.
    Again though, if we had the power to jail George Takei and we do so based on this testimony than yeah, we messed up. However, the story you are addressing is that someone made a claim about George Takei and maybe for a day some people were furious at him, only for the story to be repudiated. That is the extent of the damage.
    Last edited by Pinsir; 11-12-2017 at 11:45 AM.
    Also visit my blog where I expose Wonder Woman for the criminal she is!

    How come these anonymous sources failed to report Zack Snyder had left post-production on Justice League? They seem to know everything now...

  3. #33
    Incredible Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Exactly.

    Take George Takai for example. He's been accused of sexual assault. Word is he brought some aspiring actor half his age home, drugged him, and tried to rape him.

    Ready to unfollow Takai yet? Ready to call him out as a sexual predator who should be shunned by society and thrown down a well?

    You might want to wait a second, because if you do a little digging into the guy who made this accusation (like my wife did), you'll find that he's done this before, and had to come out and admit that the entire story was fabricated. He just wanted his 15 minutes of fame and was willing to ruin someone's life to get it. He told a damning lie with no basis in reality for personal gain. And he tells his Takai story just now, right when this whole thing starts heating up? Sounds suspicious as hell to me, personally.

    Can we really believe him when he says these things about Takai now?

    I'm not saying people like Ratner or Berganza are innocent like George Takai (probably?) is. Im saying accusations aren't evidence and these are the kinds of accusations that ruin lives, families, and careers. Not to be taken lightly.
    Right BUT keep in mind, Takai came out from the gate and was like "this is completely false and I don't know why this person would say this". I mean, I get it, he Takai and we all like him but the way he came out and defended his innocence, for me, showed me that he most likely was innocent.

    Now, also though, there were a couple of people that Brett is trying to sue now too, saying he didn't do anything to them BUT he didn't deny Olivia Munn.

  4. #34
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidRA View Post
    You are a lynch mob then.
    Again, no; no one is talking about taking action. There's no 'mob' shouting 'lock him up' or demanding he be jailed or killed.

    But yeah, we, as human beings, can decide we don't like someone based on evidence we have and not associate with them if we so choose. We do it every time we meet someone and decide if we want to associate with them or not based on whatever personal filters we have.

    In this case, the personal filter is 'are they most likely a sexual predator?' and a lot of us believe that he is, so we choose not to associate with him, as Gadot is choosing not to associate with him.

    That's a far cry from a lynch mob.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    WB will make the right call. But Ratner's been fired regardless. He's had to vacate his WB office and they confirmed that the contract with Ratner's company wont be renewed after it expires in 2019. So the question is will they pay Ratner now and terminate the contract here. Or will they wait til it expires. A Solution for Wonder Woman 2 could theoretically be to wait until after the contract with Ratner ends before starting work on it. But I doubt that will happen due to the popularity of the first one... So I dont know how they'll solve it.
    Producers are cheap and easy to find. Gal, and the success she's brought Wonder Woman, is not. If WB have even half a brain in their skulls they'll break contract with Ratner, pay the price for breaking that contract, and give Gal whatever the hell she asks for, with a smile on their face, and an apology that she even had to say anything to spurn them to action. She's the only part of the DCEU that has gotten near-universal praise; pissing her off is the worst thing they could do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    So here's the problem in court.

    So, as I said, you don't need a courtroom to make a judgment, and neither does Gal.

    None of us are asking to hang him, or even to lock him up. We just want to stay the hell away from guys like this.
    Oh, court is certainly full of its own problems. But that's the system we have to determine guilt. And Gal is perfectly capable of forming her own opinions. She likely has much better information than we do too, given that we're on the outside looking in.

    Im not saying we shouldn't be forming an opinion at all, or taking action. I myself plan on sending a few emails later today expressing my disgust over this corporate culture and my intentions to boycott certain products if adequate steps are not taken or innocence proven. Im just saying that we should keep in mind the limitations of what we know and not condemn a person on hearsay alone, even if that hearsay is compelling at first glance.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  6. #36
    Woman Of Troy Troian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richalex View Post
    This does make me love Gal even more tho.

    I think we are about to see a huge shift in Hollyweird...
    She's just saving face like all the other actresses. She is working with Ben Affleck despite all the crap that surrounds him. And while he apologized for thatone incident, it was only cause people pointed it out. The Hilary incident and Annamarie groping were both several years to over a decade old.

    Hollyweird isn't gonna change so drastically. The real big wigs still aren't being named, and people like Singer, Bay and the like are still safe while all the accusers have had rumors circulating for years.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Its also not our livelihoods that are in jeopardy.

    I agree that from what we have seen, I am infinitely more inclined to believe the women making the accusations than I am the professed innocence of the accused. However, that doesn't really add up to much.

    I believe these people (Ratner, Berganza, etc) are guilty. And it makes my blood boil. But my belief is not proof, and I'd hate to see an innocent person punished simply for a belief. Now, if their actions have been "open secrets" for years then their guilt should be easy to confirm, and when that happens they deserve to be thrown to the dogs and punished as harshly as the law and company policy allow. Until then, they're legally innocent and don't deserve a punishment more extreme than what precedent sets. Berganza has been suspended; that's a viable punishment when these sorts of allegations are in the air. What happens next should depend on verified evidence and the rule of law, not the mob rule of a fandom that's on the outside looking in.

    These accusations are akin to murder; they deserve carefully considered evaluation, not gut reactions based more on emotional responses than evidence.

    All that said, I am so very proud of Gadot for taking a stand like she is and flexing that new star power. She's in a great position to really force a light on this situation and demand WB take proper action instead of trying to sweep it under the rug (like they already did with Berganza). Good on you, Wonder Woman!
    I agree with this.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    Again, no; no one is talking about taking action. There's no 'mob' shouting 'lock him up' or demanding he be jailed or killed.

    But yeah, we, as human beings, can decide we don't like someone based on evidence we have and not associate with them if we so choose. We do it every time we meet someone and decide if we want to associate with them or not based on whatever personal filters we have.

    In this case, the personal filter is 'are they most likely a sexual predator?' and a lot of us believe that he is, so we choose not to associate with him, as Gadot is choosing not to associate with him.

    That's a far cry from a lynch mob.
    Mob mentality then. There might not be cries of lock him up, but Gal's words are deemed to carry more weight in this forum because she did well acting in a movie.

    And the evidence we have is the accusation of six persons, but not any information about the credibility of those claims. They could be factual, they could be not. I don't know.

    WB can choose to disassociate from Ratner if they wish, but are they doing so based on evidence or based on what people believe the truth is?
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  9. #39
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    WB can choose to disassociate from Ratner if they wish, but are they doing so based on evidence or based on what people believe the truth is?
    That's what every company does in these cases.
    They're really not going to threat these guys like nothing happened for another 5 or so years while the courts hack things out.

    Not that the courts have that great a success rate for sexual misconduct/rape even in cases where there is not the slightest shred of doubt because they filmed it on their phone and put it online.
    Last edited by Carabas; 11-12-2017 at 07:06 PM.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  10. #40
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    WB can choose to disassociate from Ratner if they wish, but are they doing so based on evidence or based on what people believe the truth is?
    Public perception of course.

    If people were saying "Ratner? No way, not that guy! He's a stand up dude and these women better be able to prove these accusations!" WB would be backing him up, or at least ignoring the situation, and keeping an "out" in their back pocket so if those allegations were proved, they could act just as surprised and betrayed as everyone else.

    Other companies might take a more proactive approach, but WB/DC don't follow CSR theory so doing the right ethical thing takes a back seat to money.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  11. #41
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    Oh no...she's not going anywhere. Wonder Woman 2 and her inclusion in everything else(Flash, Aquaman, Justice League 2, Black Adam)...it's not going to be stopped. She's the shining light of DC right now.

  12. #42
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    Of course, "Gal Gadot Out as Wonder Woman" can be read in many different ways.
    That's right, that's right, I'm sad and blue
    'Cause I can't do the boogaloo
    I'm lost, I'm lost, can't do my thing
    That's why I sing "Gimme, gimme dat ding!"

    --The Pipkins (another Tony Burrows one hit wonder)

  13. #43
    Incredible Member WontonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEsta View Post
    Oh no...she's not going anywhere. Wonder Woman 2 and her inclusion in everything else(Flash, Aquaman, Justice League 2, Black Adam)...it's not going to be stopped. She's the shining light of DC right now.
    She sure is! And I'm happy about it.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I'm okay with this, but as others alluded to, you can play a slippery slope game and ask why she isn't asking to terminate Ben Affleck?

  15. #45

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    Maybe Gadot doesn't need to ask to terminate Ben Affleck because WB has already decided to do so and is waiting until Justice League finishes its theatrical run to announce it.

    Notice how Ben is once again saying he's not sure he'll be playing Batman again after JL? People are assuming this is like the last time he cast doubt on it, but maybe it's because he knows or suspects that eventually WB will not ask him back and he's simply laying the groundwork to save face.

    Or maybe not, but we'll see. If the Ben Affleck incident with Hilarie Burton regains traction or if new incidents surface, he would be on the chopping block for sure.

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