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  1. #16
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    I'm not excited and this feels like some sort of shady power play by artists and DC catering to it, feeling they have to. I feel like they caved to Daniel and Finch and others trying and mostly failing to gain cred as writers. "We write, or we're going to somewhere where we can or stay in retirement."

    I think a lot of writers already try structure things to let artists play to their strengths. Morrison unleashed Burnham a good deal in Incorporated to great results. Snyder said he really thought about Capullo's strengths and such with Batman.

    I hope BCool is getting sensationalized exaggeration of a more mild less dramatic shift.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 11-14-2017 at 01:29 PM.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bukdiah View Post
    I don't care how an issue gets constructed as long as it's good. Whatever methods works for the creative team; do it.
    Same opinion here.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I hope BCool is getting sensationalized exaggeration of a more mild less dramatic shift.
    I would bet this is Rich taking something done for a few books, like the Dark Matter ones, and making it sound like a bigger story. For bi-monthly books like Batman or Superman there is often two or three artists drawing issues at the same time. How could they possibly ensure continuity between issues if the artist is driving the action? Also, I just can't see modern high-profile writers like Bendis, Lemire, King, etc giving up this authority across the board.

  4. #19
    Fantastic Member Adset's Avatar
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    well look at dc comics, VAULTING themselves into the 1960s.

  5. #20
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RolandGunner View Post
    I would bet this is Rich taking something done for a few books, like the Dark Matter ones, and making it sound like a bigger story.
    I suspect you may prove right. I heard that idea being mentioned for Dark Matter titles and I was cool with DC carving a limited corner for that style.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    I think many are confused about the 'Marvel method'.

    If you were to get a copy of 'How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way', which is still a popular shelf staple for comics artists, you'd see that the writer is still 'in control'.
    The artist isn't 'writing the comic'.

    Here's an example. It's #4 on the list.

    To my knowledge, all the Giffen and DeMatteis JLI issues were done in this format.
    And it turned out great.

    Giffen would do the plotting, then the artists would do the art, and then DeMatteis would add the script.
    It helped make the action move faster because the artist develops the art based on the 'beats' of the plot and also it helped the script writer put in dialogue that more easily matched the facial expressions.

    Kingdom Come and Marvels were also created in the Marvel Method.

    The writer essentially becomes something like a movie director, directing the artist, who is more like a cameraman, in easy to understand paragraphs, then the writer comes back and adds the dialogue.
    It also leaves room for things like the artist being more in control of panel layouts (something artists like J. H. Williams III would love because they'd able to do all their little design layouts).
    As long as the pages, and any specific panels listed, include the information and story beats requested, the writer lets the artist have more freedom.

    Granted, some artists may not be good for this style, as a few may get in a rut of doing just stock poses without some kind of guidance. Especially if they were used to being told exactly what to draw in every panel.
    Last edited by Lee Stone; 11-14-2017 at 03:04 PM.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (70s), Mandrake the Magician, Promethea, Robotech, Tomb of Dracula, Werewolf by Night.

  7. #22
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    I thought that none of the companies had an official rule anymore. Each writer/artist situation is different. Sometimes you might have someone like Keith Giffen who is good at plotting and laying out a story, but J.M. DeMatteis is good at dialoguing. Other times you might have someone like Grant Morrison who already has a vision of how the story should be potted and scripted and he hands off to the artist, who can then interpet that script.

    It's the job of the editor to figure out the best arrangement for the talent and then ensure that they're financially compensated for their work. It's not right to pay an artist a standard page rate for art but expect him to plot the story, as well, without paying him for that extra work.
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  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    I think many are confused about the 'Marvel method'.

    If you were to get a copy of 'How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way', which is still a popular shelf staple for comics artists, you'd see that the writer is still 'in control'.
    The artist isn't 'writing the comic'.

    Here's an example. It's #4 on the list.

    To my knowledge, all the Giffen and DeMatteis JLI issues were done in this format.
    And it turned out great.

    Giffen would do the plotting, then the artists would do the art, and then DeMatteis would add the script.
    It helped make the action move faster because the artist develops the art based on the 'beats' of the plot and also it helped the script writer put in dialogue that more easily matched the facial expressions.

    Kingdom Come and Marvels were also created in the Marvel Method.

    The writer essentially becomes something like a movie director, directing the artist, who is more like a cameraman, in easy to understand paragraphs, then the writer comes back and adds the dialogue.
    It also leaves room for things like the artist being more in control of panel layouts (something artists like J. H. Williams III would love because they'd able to do all their little design layouts).
    As long as the pages, and any specific panels listed, include the information and story beats requested, the writer lets the artist have more freedom.

    Granted, some artists may not be good for this style, as a few may get in a rut of doing just stock poses without some kind of guidance. Especially if they were used to being told exactly what to draw in every panel.
    The Marvel Method has undoubtedly given some really good comic books, and I donít think most people are against the method itself, but are against it being a mandate. It wouldnít be obligatory, as the article says, but it only says that the artist can ask for a script. What would happen if the writer wants to do full script even though the artist doesnít want to? I think nowadays, things are working fine, with writer and artist figuring out how theyíre going to do the comicbook. Of course, the more trust and history between writer and penciller, the best they are going to get along, in most cases. Thatís the reason why this articles generates some fear on me. Why DC would want to support one type of method instead of letting the creative teams, along editor, decide what itís best for the story? Still, it could be that the article is exaggerating the whole thing or maybe we fans are taking it too seriously
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    The Marvel Method has undoubtedly given some really good comic books, and I don’t think most people are against the method itself, but are against it being a mandate. It wouldn’t be obligatory, as the article says, but it only says that the artist can ask for a script. What would happen if the writer wants to do full script even though the artist doesn’t want to? I think nowadays, things are working fine, with writer and artist figuring out how they’re going to do the comicbook. Of course, the more trust and history between writer and penciller, the best they are going to get along, in most cases. That’s the reason why this articles generates some fear on me. Why DC would want to support one type of method instead of letting the creative teams, along editor, decide what it’s best for the story? Still, it could be that the article is exaggerating the whole thing or maybe we fans are taking it too seriously
    True.
    I think that it's designed to exaggerate and instill shock or fear.

    I also think DC's likely adopting the style as a way to speed things up so that more comics can come out on bi-weekly schedules, or so that key writers can take on more titles.
    Currently reading: Doctor Strange (70s), Mandrake the Magician, Promethea, Robotech, Tomb of Dracula, Werewolf by Night.

  10. #25
    Mighty Member TheFerg714's Avatar
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    I think this is fantastic news. I don't want comics to be like hip-hop music. Ie: the producer makes a beat and a rapper buys it and makes it his own, without much communication between the two (usually). Sure, that can work just fine, but more input from the artist can only be a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krypto's Fleas View Post
    How does someone like Tom King operate going forward?
    Well Vision and Mr. Miracle are obviously highly influenced by their respective artists, so I don't see why anything would change.
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