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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean why not create more male cast members? I mean to be honest I haven’t though that there wasn’t enough male characters. I mean what’s wrong with the certain set up? How many males do you need on Wonder Woman ? No one says this with Superman or Batman supporting cast . Maybe it’s a bit more diverse. I know if a few of their villains but most of the famous ones are males villains and supporting cast A little more mixed. We have jimmy and Lois. Catwoman and Alfred
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 11-30-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    If I had my way with Wonder Woman continuity...

    Achilles Warkiller would be back as a supporting cast member alongside Donna, Cassie, and Artemis (although I know she's doing her own thing in this continuity.)

    Diana would be living and operating out of Gateway with Ed Indelicato as part of the police force. ARGUS headquarters would be based out of Gateway, with Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Nemesis, and others as leaders and agents respectively.

    In addition to Wonder Woman's female foes and besides Ares, Heracles, Doctor Psycho, Angle Man, Anton Unreal, Duke Dazam, The Gentleman Killer, Chang Tzu, and the Duke of Deception, Lord Conquest, and Earl of Greed would make their villainy known.

    Holliday University and the Gateway Museum would exist with Julia Kapatelis and Helena Sandsmark respectively work alongside other male professors, archeologists, and students, as well as the female ones.

    Myndi Mayer would have a PR/media agency in Gateway and handle a number of clients besides Diana and the Amazons.

    I'm great with adding and revamping more supporting male characters and villains to the Wonder mythos as long as her world is getting built out as uniquely interesting as Superman/Metropolis and Batman/Gotham.

  3. #33
    Amazing Member RudHao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Now, the Adjudicator, I'm told, is appearing in another comic, after being sidelined for Circe stories and god-wars for thirty years, ..while writers and editors groan about how lousy this comic's rogues gallery is. The Adjudicator is a great super-villain, who would be top tier in any Hulk, Thor, Superman, Avengers or X-Men comic. If Wonder Woman had a surplus of great super-villains that we had seen used in GREAT stories, over the years, perhaps, it could spare an antagonist as complex and magnificent, as the Adjudicator, ..but, it hasn't. No, it's not okay, considering the present sorry state of its rogues gallery, that this comic couldn't hold onto him ..or has essentially abandoned him or thrown him away. No, no, no...

    The Batman comics can make their own 'blind martial artist' type, if they want one. I Ching belongs to WW. Someone on WW's creative team ought to have the spine to claim him and fight for him, the same way you would imagine Batman creators championing Alfred, Barbara Gordon, Huntress or Catwoman. In almost any other comic, throwing away supporting characters, like I Ching, would be next to unheard of. No, I won't silently tolerate it, in the pages of WW.
    I dont think it would be good at all for Batman writers to create their own Asian blind martial artist instead of just using I-Ching, I'm my opinion itl hurt both the character and Wonder Woman's Supporting cast.

    As an example, we comic readers know that in DC universe Captain Cold is the biggest Ice Themed villain, most developed, richest history etc, and yet if a trailer hit tommorow of a Flash movie featuring Captain Cold you can bet your ass the average person will think "is that Mr. Freeze?" or something like that.

    I can imagine that if Grant Morrison had just made up another blind Asian guy to help out Batman against Sensei and had left I-Ching in the 70's relic bin, where that would have left I-Ching today?... that guy Morrison made up would appear all over the place and then maybe, and in the future if Wonder Woman writers ever brought back I-Ching I could see people going like "isn't this I-Ching the same as that other blind Asian guy that helped Batman against Sensei back in the day?".

    In my opinion, it doesnt hurt Wonder Woman if old characters from her past appear elsewhere these days, its a good thing. Anyone who does even a bit of research into I-Ching and Adjudicator would know that they are a friend and Foe of Wonder Woman.

    They have a story to tell In JLA with Adjudicator. Imagine if they couldn't use Adjudicator bcause "he belongs to Wonder Woman"?, what would happen is that instead they would just make a similar character with a different name for the story. If they created another character just like Adjudicator only with a different name to be in a big JLA story would that help that character or Wonder Woman?, nope, instead you may never see Adjudicator again, writers would just use the new guy and Adjuticator would likely be left behind in the dust bin of the 80's or wherever he first appeared in. Then in 10 years whenever Wonder Woman writers decide to use Adjudicator again people would be like "look its just like that guy from JLA".

    It is never a bad thing for Wonder Woman's cast to appear somewhere else, even if they never appear in the pages of Wonder Woman again at the very least it's Wonder Woman villain thats getting exposure.....
    Last edited by RudHao; 11-30-2017 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #34
    Incredible Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Similarly to how Giganta and Doctor Psycho were first used outside the Wonder Woman title in the DCnU and Rebirth, it kind of feels disheartening that the Adjudicator will be developed with no relation to Wonder Woman (even if he's only a one-off villain from a Wonder-focused miniseries decades ago.)

    I feel (I have a lot of feelings...lol) that Diana is always fighting to retain or revamp or reinvest in her villains, outside the mythological ones. To me, it's a missed opportunity to inject some sci-fi and push the boundaries of the Wonder mythos by developing a quasi-cosmic entity, like Adjudicator, in the book especially in relation to Diana and the Amazons.

    Superman "owns" Darkseid in a way at the end of the day. (Yes, even despite Grail, and Darkseid, and the Female Furies showing up in the book soon.) Batman has his Barbatos and host of entities from the Metal Universe now. Green Lantern has taken on Nekron and a bunch of other cosmic forces. Besides Circe and Ares and Queen of Fables, I think it's important for Diana to have some cosmic despots all her own that can bring the DCU to its knees. And Adjudicator fit that bill nicely - and as virtually a blank slate. She deserves to "work" in as many storytelling settings (myth, detective, sci-fi, superhero, mystery, etc.) as Superman and Batman.

    I say all this of course knowing nothing about how the Adjudicator will show up in JLA. I'm just thinking emotionally from being tired of Wonder Woman's villains being ignored or used without her. <shoulder shrug> And it kinda makes me wish Orlando would take over Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 11-30-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    "More men"? Without those, which men is there left in het supporting cast outside Steve? How can you sucessfully sell the concept of Wonder Woman without any quality men? I mean, you can but is easy and lazy.

    Your description of DC Hercules is part of the issue I have with "Wonder Woman". You want her to be truly special and unique? Then don`t go the same historical route that male writers at large have in writting female characters. Dare to be the exception.

    That is part of the reason her movie was great. It didnt stick to evil gender but to evil people.
    I don't really care about there being more men in the franchise or not since thats not a concern for me and I think this entire argument is based on a false comparison because men aren't misrepresented in media and misandry isn't a real social problem. I just want to read a Wonder Woman comic about Wonder Woman and her supporting cast instead of whatever we are constantly getting nowadays.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    If I had my way with Wonder Woman continuity...

    Achilles Warkiller would be back as a supporting cast member alongside Donna, Cassie, and Artemis (although I know she's doing her own thing in this continuity.)

    Diana would be living and operating out of Gateway with Ed Indelicato as part of the police force. ARGUS headquarters would be based out of Gateway, with Steve Trevor, Etta Candy, Nemesis, and others as leaders and agents respectively.

    In addition to Wonder Woman's female foes and besides Ares, Heracles, Doctor Psycho, Angle Man, Anton Unreal, Duke Dazam, The Gentleman Killer, Chang Tzu, and the Duke of Deception, Lord Conquest, and Earl of Greed would make their villainy known.

    Holliday University and the Gateway Museum would exist with Julia Kapatelis and Helena Sandsmark respectively work alongside other male professors, archeologists, and students, as well as the female ones.

    Myndi Mayer would have a PR/media agency in Gateway and handle a number of clients besides Diana and the Amazons.

    I'm great with adding and revamping more supporting male characters and villains to the Wonder mythos as long as her world is getting built out as uniquely interesting as Superman/Metropolis and Batman/Gotham.

    I agree. The thing with Gateway is writers and artist haevn't always made it stay out. I mean why can't Gateway actually be a gateway of many mythical and other places. That humans and mythical creatures and beings live together in harmony. This why it stays out for Gotham and Metropolis. Holliday University Diana goes and speaks about many topics. The Amazons should be known in Gateway due to the mythical background.
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  7. #37
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RudHao View Post
    I dont think it would be good at all for Batman writers to create their own Asian blind martial artist instead of just using I-Ching, I'm my opinion itl hurt both the character and Wonder Woman's Supporting cast.

    As an example, we comic readers know that in DC universe Captain Cold is the biggest Ice Themed villain, most developed, richest history etc, and yet if a trailer hit tommorow of a Flash movie featuring Captain Cold you can bet your ass the average person will think "is that Mr. Freeze?" or something like that.

    I can imagine that if Grant Morrison had just made up another blind Asian guy to help out Batman against Sensei and had left I-Ching in the 70's relic bin, where that would have left I-Ching today?... that guy Morrison made up would appear all over the place and then maybe, and in the future if Wonder Woman writers ever brought back I-Ching I could see people going like "isn't this I-Ching the same as that other blind Asian guy that helped Batman against Sensei back in the day?".

    In my opinion, it doesnt hurt Wonder Woman if old characters from her past appear elsewhere these days, its a good thing. Anyone who does even a bit of research into I-Ching and Adjudicator would know that they are a friend and Foe of Wonder Woman.

    They have a story to tell In JLA with Adjudicator. Imagine if they couldn't use Adjudicator bcause "he belongs to Wonder Woman"?, what would happen is that instead they would just make a similar character with a different name for the story. If they created another character just like Adjudicator only with a different name...
    I'm fine with Adjudicator being in a JL story, so long as it's established that he's an enemy of Wonder Woman. When this JL arc is over, the Adjudicator should be universally recognized as 'Wonder Woman's foe', pointing fans to the WW comic, where similarly spectacular, myth-inspired and non-myth supervillains can be seen getting the crap beat out of them, by Diana Themyscira.

    And I disagree with you on I Ching's use in the WW comic. There's no reason why Diana can't have a trusted friend, who occasionally joins her adventures, who happens to be blind and Asian. Why not?! The WW comic typically has no established supporting cast; so, don't tell me, in a monthly fantasy adventure comic, there's no room for one blind, Asian mystic, with superior knowledge of the occult and martial arts skills. I Ching, as a regularly or infrequently seen supporting character, was created for use in WW, ..and that's where I think he belongs.

    Look...please don't misunderstand me. I've been reading comics for more than four decades, and I just don't see other comics throwing supporting characters and super-villains away, the way I see that happening in WW. Furthermore, I refuse to believe that writers and editors of the WW comic are so feckless and inept that characters, created for use in WW, are ultimately better used in other comics. I refuse to believe that, because it's disgraceful and outrageous, and that would make WW the most wasteful comic, currently in publication; so, I refuse. The WW comic needs to get its ACT together and starting using the wealth of truly promising characters, created for use in WW, to give us the classic comic that we're hoping to read, every month!

    I'm tired of the excuses, as to why the WW comic can't get it together.

    No, RudHao, it's not acceptable that other comics are better at using WW characters, than the WW comic. It never will be...not to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Similarly to how Giganta and Doctor Psycho were first used outside the Wonder Woman title in the DCnU and Rebirth, it kind of feels disheartening that the Adjudicator will be developed with no relation to Wonder Woman (even if he's only a one-off villain from a Wonder-focused miniseries decades ago.)

    I feel (I have a lot of feelings...lol) that Diana is always fighting to retain or revamp or reinvest in her villains, outside the mythological ones. To me, it's a missed opportunity to inject some sci-fi and push the boundaries of the Wonder mythos by developing a quasi-cosmic entity, like Adjudicator, in the book especially in relation to Diana and the Amazons.

    Superman "owns" Darkseid in a way at the end of the day. (Yes, even despite Grail, and Darkseid, and the Female Furies showing up in the book soon.) Batman has his Barbatos and host of entities from the Metal Universe now. Green Lantern has taken on Nekron and a bunch of other cosmic forces. Besides Circe and Ares and Queen of Fables, I think it's important for Diana to have some cosmic despots all her own that can bring the DCU to its knees. And Adjudicator fit that bill nicely - and as virtually a blank slate. She deserves to "work" in as many storytelling settings (myth, detective, sci-fi, superhero, mystery, etc.) as Superman and Batman.

    I say all this of course knowing nothing about how the Adjudicator will show up in JLA. I'm just thinking emotionally from being tired of Wonder Woman's villains being ignored or used without her. <shoulder shrug> And it kinda makes me wish Orlando would take over Wonder Woman.
    Once again, WonderScott articulates what I am too tired and angry to say, very well. Thank you.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 12-06-2017 at 02:21 AM.
    FINALLY! The greatest comic book movie, ever made... The ORIGIN of the GOLDEN AGE WONDER BOY!

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    This is why I think a group like Villainy Inc could work. You should have a mix of both Sci-fox and Mystical. They should both somewhat symbolize a mix of twist sense of morals. Like they are loyal to the members that are official to them but kill or harm anyone who isn’t in the group. I don’t think Circe or cheetah should be the only ones used outsides.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  9. #39
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    This is why I think a group like Villainy Inc could work. You should have a mix of both Sci-fox and Mystical. They should both somewhat symbolize a mix of twist sense of morals. Like they are loyal to the members that are official to them but kill or harm anyone who isnít in the group. I donít think Circe or cheetah should be the only ones used outsides.
    Villainy, Inc. would be a great place to see Wonder Woman's myth-inspired supervillains and her sci-fi ones working together.
    FINALLY! The greatest comic book movie, ever made... The ORIGIN of the GOLDEN AGE WONDER BOY!

  10. #40
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Thing is, Diana's rogues gallery has more female villains than any hero from either Marvel or DC. So while gender issues have been tackled, you can't really say they've only demonized one gender over the other.
    That`s what I a pointing out, that there aren`t many men in her supporting cast to begin with, so claiming "there`s too many" seems equally a fallacy to me. Especially if some male villains will obviously be portraited as such, of which I got no qualms about, just like the female villains.

    That said, if there are new additions, and male which seems to be the things being discussed most, I rather they be quality and truly ambivalent. Hercules in WW shifts back and forth, he`s not really been ambivalent, you simply had writers who go one route and others going another. It lacks characterization of any consistant level.
    White Tiger P.O.C
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  11. #41
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't really care about there being more men in the franchise or not since thats not a concern for me and I think this entire argument is based on a false comparison because men aren't misrepresented in media and misandry isn't a real social problem. I just want to read a Wonder Woman comic about Wonder Woman and her supporting cast instead of whatever we are constantly getting nowadays.
    Oy, not even touching that one.
    White Tiger P.O.C
    https://vimeo.com/195242203

    "Take your clowns and get out!"
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    I don`t care
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPkrddyP0v...s1600/02-4.png

    "Second star to the right... and straight on till morning"
    http://www.benreillytribute.x10host....BenGrieves.jpg

  12. #42
    Incredible Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    This is why I think a group like Villainy Inc could work. You should have a mix of both Sci-fox and Mystical. They should both somewhat symbolize a mix of twist sense of morals. Like they are loyal to the members that are official to them but kill or harm anyone who isn’t in the group. I don’t think Circe or cheetah should be the only ones used outsides.
    I like the idea of bringing back Villainy Inc. and it including characters that are from sci-fi, mystical, and technological backgrounds - and find that they're stronger together than apart. Ares, Cheetah, Circe, Doctor Psycho, Doctor Cyber and other characters and concepts (Zara and the Cult of the Crimson Flame, Astarte, etc.) could stand on their own, so I'm coming around to the idea that VI would be good means to revamp Golden Age characters concepts that are pretty much a blank slate. Try to mine the wealth that is Wonder history. (And before someone comes at me with "that's just a bad character," the War of Jokes and Riddles made Kiteman, KITEMAN, a viable interesting character. So there's room to explore Diana's kooky to marginal villains in a new way.)

    As with the original VI team, I'd keep it all female - part for the sake of nostalgia, part that it makes the team unique. I envision VI members building group dynamics and individual relationships a bit like Flash's Rogues. It'd also be interesting to see VI come across other malevolent teams in the DCU that typically are mostly male. My roster:

    1. Eviless (leader) - Extraterrestrial despot/crime lord with access to alien technology.
    2. Giganta - Human doctor/scientist with acclaim in human, metahuman, mutant, mythical, alien, magical, demigod, and godly genetics and physiology
    3. Hypnota - Metahuman telepath and psychometric and able to manipulate chakric energies
    4. Badra - Highly-durable alien speedster and combatant. Eviless's righthand woman.
    5. Queen Clea - Atlantean city-state sovereign, with impressive array of magical weapons and artifacts.
    6. Doctor Poison - Human doctor/scientist specializing in biohazards and biochemistry of human, metahuman, mutant, mythical, alien, magical, demigod, and godly specimens.
    7. Inventa - Human technologist, specializing in the collection/recovery of alien tech and applied sciences.
    8. Blue Snowman - Human technologist and scientist, specializing in the physical sciences - particularly thermodynamics.

    I see relationships developing between Doctor Poison and Doris Zeul over some crossover in their work. Similarly, Blue Snowman and Inventa may find each other's work fascinating while working together.

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