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  1. #46
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to learn later on that this annual was a test balloon by D.C. They may have wanted to see how the fanbase would react to a strong and stable relationship for Batman before going all-in with it. Plus, this issue can be used to gauge the reaction to potential additions to the main batfamily : if peoples go vocal about Helena Wayne and Carrie (not Kelly, stupid me ) on the main Earth and in the main continuity, I could very well see D.C. putting it into motions. Obviously, for the former, shenaningans would be necessary to have her as a true character in the franchise. But the potential of a younger sister coming from the Future to be with a teenage Damian would greatly please me, i can tell you !

  2. #47
    Incredible Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post
    Cass and Damian huh? AKA the fanbase that continuously complains about her exclusion from Family scenes in King's run and the fanbase that has been annoyed from day one that Damian isn't in the run more? I really hope this isn't more of King's BS of writing in reaction to the internet.

    Still, the fact that Cass isn't the ONLY one missing and that this is very clearly non-canon (Carrie being here makes that pretty clear as if it wasn't already) does ease my frustration somewhat.
    One or both of Cass and Damian are probably on patrol. I doubt old Bruce would want Gotham to be unprotected even when he is on his death bed.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    One or both of Cass and Damian are probably on patrol. I doubt old Bruce would want Gotham to be unprotected even when he is on his death bed.
    But, if that was the case, and as much as I can like the first two, Jean-Paul, Duke and Steph would have made more sense, if there is patrols going on. Damian is Batman's son by blood, Cass the only daughter he ever adopted. To both of them, Bruce's death would have the most impact.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to learn later on that this annual was a test balloon by D.C. They may have wanted to see how the fanbase would react to a strong and stable relationship for Batman before going all-in with it. Plus, this issue can be used to gauge the reaction to potential additions to the main batfamily : if peoples go vocal about Helena Wayne and Carrie (not Kelly, stupid me ) on the main Earth and in the main continuity, I could very well see D.C. putting it into motions. Obviously, for the former, shenaningans would be necessary to have her as a true character in the franchise. But the potential of a younger sister coming from the Future to be with a teenage Damian would greatly please me, i can tell you !
    we are at capacity.jpg


    Like there are plenty of people I'd ditch in order to make room for Helena (Assuming DC's bio kid bias didn't come into play and have her treated as more important than Cass) and I don't care about Carrie at all, but regardless, there is no more room. I'm ALL for a Big BatFamily, but the family isn't even in a good place right now and there's just no more room given the number of books available.

    Really hoping someone knows where that joke is from
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  5. #50
    Incredible Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    But, if that was the case, and as much as I can like the first two, Jean-Paul, Duke and Steph would have made more sense, if there is patrols going on. Damian is Batman's son by blood, Cass the only daughter he ever adopted. To both of them, Bruce's death would have the most impact.
    Steph, Duke and Jean-Paul I think are more likely to retire when they are older I think. I mean they must be 40s right? Assuming Bruce is like 80 here.

    Cass and Damian on the other hand dont see ever retiring until they are extremely old like Bruce.

  6. #51
    Spectacular Member L.H.'s Avatar
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    Are we sure that this story is settled in our earth? Bruce told to Selina to find another Batman on another earth, so this could be an elsewhere, not the future.
    If it's the future, I can see Damian be the one near to Helena (he seems too much young for Jason, he is clearly younger than Tim). I think Dick is the one holding Babs and Jason the red head near Steph (he was red in his first appearance and also in Morrison route). The girl could be a DickBabs' daughter or Carrie (but I can't see how Carrie can exist in this world). Cass is still missing.

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assam View Post

    Like there are plenty of people I'd ditch in order to make room for Helena (Assuming DC's bio kid bias didn't come into play and have her treated as more important than Cass) and I don't care about Carrie at all, but regardless, there is no more room. I'm ALL for a Big BatFamily, but the family isn't even in a good place right now and there's just no more room given the number of books available.
    Haha. I mostly agree with you, but I think that the main problem from the Family is that it isn't used well. There seem to be some kind of mandate for it to either be absent completely from a Batman Book, gathered in "full" (between quotes because the notion of full seems to vary from writer to writer) or forced to stick to some books beyond small cameos.

    Dick ? Nightwing, Titans (as mediocre as it can be) and a relatively large amount of panels in the main Batman book, but often alone or only with Damian.
    Jason ? He'll be there for three panels and otherwise its RHatO.
    Damian ? He'll be there a little more than any other -save perhaps Dick, but often interact only with Dick, otherwise, it's TT and Supersons.
    Tim ? He's a mess, has been for a long time (since Damian came in, really).

    Steph and Cass ? Forced into Detective Comics, and won't appear in the main batbook because, reasons (stupid ones at that).
    Barbara ? She has Batgirl and BoP, but she suffers from the same problem than Steph and Cass in the main book.

    And all those problems are pretty easy to solve : the Bat-family doesn't need to always be in full to interact. You can have Jason, Bruce and Cass together for one or two issues, then some others, and so it goes. I like my Batman without a Robin or side character constantly with him in the main book, but in between four to five issues storylines, I can perfectly live (and I would love it) with small cases where Batman interact with all his family and the members between them. And this has to extend to the other books. There is no reason for Dick to not interact in Nightwing with Cass, Tim and Duke in the same issue, etc.

    To me, the size of the Bat-Family isn't a problem, more the misuses of it.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member Assam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Haha. I mostly agree with you, but I think that the main problem from the Family is that it isn't used well. There seem to be some kind of mandate for it to either be absent completely from a Batman Book, gathered in "full" (between quotes because the notion of full seems to vary from writer to writer) or forced to stick to some books beyond small cameos.

    Dick ? Nightwing, Titans (as mediocre as it can be) and a relatively large amount of panels in the main Batman book, but often alone or only with Damian.
    Jason ? He'll be there for three panels and otherwise its RHatO.
    Damian ? He'll be there a little more than any other -save perhaps Dick, but often interact only with Dick, otherwise, it's TT and Supersons.
    Tim ? He's a mess, has been for a long time (since Damian came in, really).

    Steph and Cass ? Forced into Detective Comics, and won't appear in the main batbook because, reasons (stupid ones at that).
    Barbara ? She has Batgirl and BoP, but she suffers from the same problem than Steph and Cass in the main book.

    And all those problems are pretty easy to solve : the Bat-family doesn't need to always be in full to interact. You can have Jason, Bruce and Cass together for one or two issues, then some others, and so it goes. I like my Batman without a Robin or side character constantly with him in the main book, but in between four to five issues storylines, I can perfectly live (and I would love it) with small cases where Batman interact with all his family and the members between them. And this has to extend to the other books. There is no reason for Dick to not interact in Nightwing with Cass, Tim and Duke in the same issue, etc.

    To me, the size of the Bat-Family isn't a problem, more the misuses of it.
    I agree. If things were being handled as well as they could be, I'd say the bigger the better with the BatFamily, but you can't have a "Big Ol' Family" when they don't feel like a Family. The Fam is currently the biggest its ever been and that could be great, but everyone is just so isolated.
    Current Top 20 Titles: New Super-Man and the Justice League of China/Runaways/Go Go Power Rangers/Mighty Morphin Power Rangers/Doom Patrol/Maxwell's Demons/Exit Stage Left: The Snagglepuss Chronicles/Paper Girls/All-New Wolverine/Unbeatable Squirrel Girl/Mech Cadet Yu/Quantum and Woody/Fence/Domino/X-Men Red/Ms. Marvel/Falcon/]The Wildstorm: Michael Cray/New Mutants: Dead Souls/Champions

  9. #54
    Always Rakzo
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    No way! An actual GOOD story!

    Thank God that Kind decided to drop the obnoxious "Bat, Cat" sh*t and instead decided to focus on truly emotional moments that are concentrated on the relationship between Bruce and Selina in both the past and a possible future.

    Artwork was great in both segments as well. King really should limit himself to write only short stories instead of whatever the hell he usually does in this book.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    The problem with the batfamily is, that as far as DC is concerned, only Nightwing, Batgirl and Robin matters and there are writters that simply aren't interested on then, Dick recieve some preferential treatment because of his seniority and have some big fanboys in the industry, Robin and Batgirl, are considered less important and the writters prefer to put then in their own corners to not deal with then. The rest, is lip service, they are keep around because the have sizable fanbases and they don't want to loose then, but because they aren't as marketable as those brands, they would have a harder time in the future and there are writters that, again, are simply not interested on then, so indifference palys a role too.

  11. #56
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    Let`s be honest. If you`re one of the main boys and Barbara, you`re nearly always there. The rest is where the struggle is.
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  12. #57
    Astonishing Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Let`s be honest. If you`re one of the main boys and Barbara, you`re nearly always there. The rest is where the struggle is.
    I do think that Tim and Jason are in a sligthly better position beetween Dick, Barbara, Damian and the rest (Cass, Steph, etc), i guest that i should put Duke slightly above Jason and Tim for a while.

  13. #58
    Long Live The Phantom Aioros22's Avatar
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    If it`s a Snyder/King penned story, Duke is a fill in for sure but outside of that I`m not sure his inclusion is universal yet.
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    I don`t care
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  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    But, if that was the case, and as much as I can like the first two, Jean-Paul, Duke and Steph would have made more sense, if there is patrols going on. Damian is Batman's son by blood, Cass the only daughter he ever adopted. To both of them, Bruce's death would have the most impact.
    King forgot them for put less important characters... Seriouslly, Carrie?

    and if this blonde man is azrael, I never imaginated him in Bruce Wayne last moments(Damian and Cass have priority), I saw him like the kind of character that knows about this after his death... For this I never put that image in Cass appreciation, the friend that show me that image was not sure if she was Cass or Helena..

    Helena was used for replace Damian.. I donīt listen nobody talking about Bat-damian existence in this topic about this FAKE future..

    The characters that should appear here are the 4 Robins and the 3 post-crisis batgirls(cass, steph, barbara) an batwoman, if she is alive..
    Last edited by adrikito; 11-29-2017 at 08:19 AM.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    If it`s a Snyder/King penned story, Duke is a fill in for sure but outside of that I`m not sure his inclusion is universal yet.
    To be fair, Tynion makes up for Tim's disappearances by shilling the character every issue of detective

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