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  1. #31
    Mighty Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Huh?

    In the early days, Dick and Barbara weren't in any boyfriend/girlfriend relationships.
    Dick may have sometimes been written as if he could have had a crush on Barbara, but she never showed any romantic interest in Dick back in the pre-CoIE stories. And, mind you, Barbara Gordon's Batgirl was around for nearly twenty years (our time) prior to CoIE.

    There was one time when she did kiss Robin when she was Batgirl, it was to shut him up and confuse him; it wasn't a part of any romance.

    For there not being anything, I sure do ship it.


    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  2. #32
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightwingIvI View Post
    For there not being anything, I sure do ship it.
    Uh, I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but for anybody who doesn't know, that panel is from the same issue that the "Batgirl kissing Robin" sequence I posted was, and is in fact what led up to Batgirl kissing Robin.
    Oh, brother!
    That's The Batman's routine...
    ...that this isn't work for a woman!
    But I know how to shut Robin up!
    from Batman Family #1

    As for the "wedding" cover, that scene was forced (in more ways than one)!

  3. #33
    Mighty Member NightwingIvI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Uh, I'm not sure if you're aware of it or not, but for anybody who doesn't know, that panel is from the same issue that the "Batgirl kissing Robin" sequence I posted was, and is in fact what led up to Batgirl kissing Robin.
    from Batman Family #1

    As for the "wedding" cover, that scene was forced (in more ways than one)!
    Yeah, I was just too lazy to bother finding anything more accurate. It was obviously a one-way relationship, but Dick did have a crush on Barabara.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Rozakis
    I always looked at it more as almost a schoolboy crush, you know? I mean, Barbara was a hot, sexy woman and at the time had to be at least 5-7 years older than Dick. Here they were palling around as two superheroes. They were contemporaries in that respect. But I think he had a crush on her and it was, like, you know, a fantasy: Maybe I could have her as a girlfriend — but in reality, I think he recognized that this is not gonna happen.
    It heated up. He heated up! He cooled down. I don’t think there was ever anything that I did that ever had it coming from the other direction. That Babs never had anything more than a big, sisterly feeling towards him.

    It wasn’t intended to go anywhere at the time, but with a modern perspective of the characters can recontextuailize their relationship in a revisionist sense.

    Think about how some of these quotes were used in Grayson #12. Why were they employed? What vibe do you get from that?


    or this modernization of the scene above.



    Plus, you gotta root for the underdog!
    Last edited by NightwingIvI; 12-02-2017 at 09:14 AM.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  4. #34
    Mighty Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Oh god is that annual....

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    They de-age her due to wanting her to be around the same age as Dick to match up with their well known other media appearances (DCAU and, God help us, Batman & Robin) and be his love interest. And they cannot justify calling her Batgirl if she's 25 or older. It would be nice if Barbara and Kara were allowed to age and become Batwoman and Superwoman, but but it is difficult in the former's case due to Kate running around in the same continuity.

    Barbara and Dick (and probably the likes of their contemporaries like Wally, Donna, Roy, etc) will never age past the vague "early 20s" age range they are in now. Same way Bruce, Clark, Diana and Hal will never age past early-mid 30s. Dick may be Nightwing, but even then he's still considered a boy or young man instead of a man in his prime like the Justice League members.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    They de-age her due to wanting her to be around the same age as Dick to match up with their well known other media appearances (DCAU and, God help us, Batman & Robin) and be his love interest. And they cannot justify calling her Batgirl if she's 25 or older. It would be nice if Barbara and Kara were allowed to age and become Batwoman and Superwoman, but but it is difficult in the former's case due to Kate running around in the same continuity.
    She was officially 25 pre crisis, and at the time refused to change her name to Batwoman when Kathy offered her the mantle.


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Barbara and Dick (and probably the likes of their contemporaries like Wally, Donna, Roy, etc) will never age past the vague "early 20s" age range they are in now. Same way Bruce, Clark, Diana and Hal will never age past early-mid 30s. Dick may be Nightwing, but even then he's still considered a boy or young man instead of a man in his prime like the Justice League members.
    Pre flashpoint Dick was actually officially at east to 26 (or maybe even 27) before the reboot.
    Last edited by Aahz; 12-02-2017 at 10:40 AM.

  7. #37
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    They de-age her due to wanting her to be around the same age as Dick to match up with their well known other media appearances (DCAU and, God help us, Batman & Robin) and be his love interest. And they cannot justify calling her Batgirl if she's 25 or older. It would be nice if Barbara and Kara were allowed to age and become Batwoman and Superwoman, but but it is difficult in the former's case due to Kate running around in the same continuity.

    Barbara and Dick (and probably the likes of their contemporaries like Wally, Donna, Roy, etc) will never age past the vague "early 20s" age range they are in now. Same way Bruce, Clark, Diana and Hal will never age past early-mid 30s. Dick may be Nightwing, but even then he's still considered a boy or young man instead of a man in his prime like the Justice League members.
    Even though she started out as Batgirl in her mid-20's and we currently have a mid-20's Supergirl running around in her TV show .

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    She was officially 25 pre crisis, and at the time refused to change her name to Batwoman when Kathy offered her the mantle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Even though she started out as Batgirl in her mid-20's and we currently have a mid-20's Supergirl running around in her TV show .
    Babs was 25 back in the 70s. It was kind of similar to Sue Storm being Invisible Girl for a long time even if she had to have been in her 20s at least wen she debuted, and got married and had a son before she got around to upgrading to "Invisible Woman." I can't imagine a brand new female character of that age coming into existence now and being referred to as a "girl." Those two get away with it because they have been referred to by those names for so long, but it's telling that in the comics that Babs has to be aged around 20-21 and Kara is back in high school.

    It was even lampshaded in the Lego movie where Babs is a Commissioner and scoffs at being called Batgirl, and says she should get to call Bruce Batboy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Pre flashpoint Dick was actually officially at east to 26 (or maybe even 27) before the reboot.
    Yeah, but he isn't now. And will likely not age beyond the 20-22 range now for a while. Even back then, they didn't seem to be in any rush to age him beyond mid-late 20s.

  9. #39
    Heir of Batman adrikito's Avatar
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    I remember begin with Burnside with Barbara with 21 years... With rebirth, I doubt that the current Barbara can be older than 24 years(and I am sure that she is younger than this)..

    Batgirl and Batgirl Birds of Prey are the same thing that DC started in batgirl 35-36 in N52..
    Last edited by adrikito; 12-02-2017 at 01:50 PM.
    Waiting for Maya Ducard(aka Nobody) and RSOB return
    Waiting for the first Damian girlfriend..
    Waiting for one Steph&Cass comic..

  10. #40
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Babs was 25 back in the 70s. It was kind of similar to Sue Storm being Invisible Girl for a long time even if she had to have been in her 20s at least wen she debuted, and got married and had a son before she got around to upgrading to "Invisible Woman." I can't imagine a brand new female character of that age coming into existence now and being referred to as a "girl." Those two get away with it because they have been referred to by those names for so long, but it's telling that in the comics that Babs has to be aged around 20-21 and Kara is back in high school.
    I don't think a lot of people would bat an eye at a mid-20's Barbara Gordon being Batgirl and acting her age, but that's just me.

    Yeah, but he isn't now. And will likely not age beyond the 20-22 range now for a while. Even back then, they didn't seem to be in any rush to age him beyond mid-late 20s.
    Sometimes it feels like he's still written to be in his mid-to-late 20's depending on the writer, but Dick's age with his personality can sometimes be very nebulous.

  11. #41
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrikito View Post
    Batgirl and Batgirl Birds of Prey are the same thing that DC started in batgirl 35-36 in N52.
    That's only if you ignore the pre-Burnside versions of Batgirl in the New52.



    And let's not forget Babs was working with the New 52 Birds of Prey back in 2012.


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yeah, but he isn't now. And will likely not age beyond the 20-22 range now for a while. Even back then, they didn't seem to be in any rush to age him beyond mid-late 20s.
    If they will really extend the time line post rebirth back to 15+Years they have to age them up back to the late 20s, if the ages should make any sense.

  13. #43
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    Although there was a time in the 1970s when it was argued that calling a woman a girl was sexist, it seems like the old sexism won out and women are still called girls--by both men and women. And the comic books are not consistent with which females are called girls or women.

    I would not have minded if Barbara Gordon was called Batwoman instead of Batgirl. The old Batwoman--Kathy Kane--was hardly featured in the '70s and virtually written out of continuity in the '80s. So It probably would have been better if Babs had been Batwoman. But she became Oracle in the 1990s so the matter was moot.

    The sexual chemistry between Batgirl and Robin was established in DETECTIVE COMICS 369 (November '67)--"Batgirl Breaks Up the Dynamic Duo." But this was a comedy of errors, in that Batgirl and Robin just pretended to form a new partnership in order to protect Batman. They were faking it--and Bruce looked at this as Robin having some puppy love for Batgirl, the way a schoolboy might have a crush on his school teacher.

    But it was just as likely that Bruce had some feelings for Barbara--since she was in between the age of Bruce and Dick. And the events of 'TEC 369 led into the story in BATMAN 197 (December '67)--which featured the spectacular return of Catwoman to the adventures of Batman. Just as Batman had got the wrong idea about Batgirl and Robin; Catwoman now had the wrong idea about Batman and Batgirl--believing that Batgirl was his new girl friend. And Catwoman attacked them out of jealousy.

    This is all in good fun. And the writers who teased Robin's crush on Batgirl were probably playing on the earlier flirtation in 'TEC 369. It's pretty easy to see that might be the case as the Batgirl kissing Robin story in BATMAN FAMILY No.1 was followed in the very next issue by a reprint of "Batgirl Breaks Up the Dynamic Duo."

    However, it seems like writers can't have fun and, whenever they throw in a silly flirtation scene just for the giggles, the humourless readers (and TV audiences) take this all very seriously and start sending out the wedding invitations.
    How gentle is the rain, that falls softly on the meadow;
    Birds high up in the trees serenade the flowers with their melodies.
    Oh, see there beyond the hill, the bright colors of the rainbow;
    Some magic from above made this day for us, just to fall in love.

  14. #44
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    I really liked that issue (an Annual a few years ago) where Barbara got herself all Baned up and had three little Batgirls following her around. It'd be cool to see more of that.

  15. #45
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I really liked that issue (an Annual a few years ago) where Barbara got herself all Baned up and had three little Batgirls following her around. It'd be cool to see more of that.
    Actually, that wasn't an Annual.

    That was the Batgirl: Futures End one-shot from 2014.


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