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  1. #331
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    Quesada wants to "talk more s*it" now that he's involved in publishing again

    https://twitter.com/JoeQuesada/statu...F%3Fpage%3D646

  2. #332
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    haha, while it’s clear from what i’ve said previously, that i don’t agree with waid’s take...i’ve also said that i take any pro writer’s opinion on such things seriously. one to think about

    it gets messier when you consider tv. my go to example of buffy: joss whedon was the creator but the entire first series was established using a stable of writers. would they then all be fanfics apart from whedon’s eps? what about when he directed one written by someone else? or wrote one that was directed by another person?
    It's obvious that something like television is held to different standards than comic books. But usually television writing is handled by a group of people who all contribute to each individual episode, even if writing credit only goes to one or two or so people.

    Writing for comic books is not the same thing as writing for television. (Insert joke about pay disparity here.)

  3. #333
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    It's obvious that something like television is held to different standards than comic books. But usually television writing is handled by a group of people who all contribute to each individual episode, even if writing credit only goes to one or two or so people.

    Writing for comic books is not the same thing as writing for television. (Insert joke about pay disparity here.)
    that goes without saying, but the general thrust has parallels. comics are also a group effort. in comics, you can still have a concept created by one person and executed by another. or a character or concept that had no wings until a new team came along and re/defined it. idk if you can call that fan fiction with a straight face

    and if we’re saying the idea of originator and all others being fans is singular to comic books, then that suggests the idea doesn’t have much steam

    i’d be interested to hear waid’s further thoughts on it
    troo fan or death

  4. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    haha, while it’s clear from what i’ve said previously, that i don’t agree with waid’s take...i’ve also said that i take any pro writer’s opinion on such things seriously. one to think about

    it gets messier when you consider tv. my go to example of buffy: joss whedon was the creator but the entire first series was established using a stable of writers. would they then all be fanfics apart from whedon’s eps? what about when he directed one written by someone else? or wrote one that was directed by another person?
    Also, what about books written or drawn by people who aren't fans, such as an X-Men run written by someone who wanted the exposure/ payday or the opportunity to tell particular types of stories but is indifferent to the characters?
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  5. #335
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Also, what about books written or drawn by people who aren't fans, such as an X-Men run written by someone who wanted the exposure/ payday or the opportunity to tell particular types of stories but is indifferent to the characters?
    That seems to follow a very narrow, and very literal, definition of "fan fiction." (If you're arguing that someone has to literally be a fan for it to count as fan fiction.)

  6. #336

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That seems to follow a very narrow, and very literal, definition of "fan fiction." (If you're arguing that someone has to literally be a fan for it to count as fan fiction.)
    You don't have many non-fans writing fan-fiction, and one of the reasons fan-fiction is used a pejorative is the sense that someone's not able to tell a story rationally because they get too precious about the thing they're a fan of.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  7. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    You don't have many non-fans writing fan-fiction, and one of the reasons fan-fiction is used a pejorative is the sense that someone's not able to tell a story rationally because they get too precious about the thing they're a fan of.
    Some people don't use "fan fiction" as a pejorative. It might be that reputation that leads to some people rejecting the usage of the term "fan fiction" in any capacity when discussing officially commissioned work released by the owner of the intellectual property.

  8. #338
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    it's an interesting discussion. even if we try to apply waid's opinion as a rule, it's clear that things can get murky inside and outside of comics.

    if anything further crops up or if waid elaborates, it'll be cool if you could post it kevroc...
    troo fan or death

  9. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    it's an interesting discussion. even if we try to apply waid's opinion as a rule, it's clear that things can get murky inside and outside of comics.

    if anything further crops up or if waid elaborates, it'll be cool if you could post it kevroc...
    By the dictionary definition, "fan fiction" is fiction based on an IP that is not authorized or owned by the IP's owner. Ergo, Waid's Captain America comics cannot be fan fiction, even if he wanted them to be, since they were/are owned and authorized by Marvel, who own the Captain America IP. The writer being a "fan" of the property in question is irrelevant to it being "fan fiction" or not.

    When someone calls licensed fiction "fan fiction," it's basically a figure of speech to express one's distaste for the story/writing style/content/whatever.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    By the dictionary definition, "fan fiction" is fiction based on an IP that is not authorized or owned by the IP's owner. Ergo, Waid's Captain America comics cannot be fan fiction, even if he wanted them to be, since they were/are owned and authorized by Marvel, who own the Captain America IP. The writer being a "fan" of the property in question is irrelevant to it being "fan fiction" or not.

    When someone calls licensed fiction "fan fiction," it's basically a figure of speech to express one's distaste for the story/writing style/content/whatever.
    we’re on the same page

    i think there’s two readings on his comment:

    either waid literally thinks there’s no difference between the industry and fan fiction

    or he’s being intentionally flattering to a form of fan labour that often gets a bad rap
    troo fan or death

  11. #341
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    busiek’s reply


    I agree with the first sentence and disagree with the other two. Nothing wrong with fan fiction, but pro assignments aren’t fan fiction. “City on the Edge of Forever” isn’t fan fiction, nor is a ghostwritten Hardy Boys novel, etc.

    I think expanding the definition of fanfic to “any writing of characters created by someone else and sometimes even characters you created too” loses a valuable word we used to talk about stories created by fans out of fannish love.

    Fan fiction is an honorable and enjoyable thing, but erasing the difference between pro assignments and fan fiction because the boundaries are fuzzy is like saying all fiction is SF because it tells of things that didn’t happen in real history.
    troo fan or death

  12. #342
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    Experience does count. Plus being hired by the company whose character they are writing.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  13. #343
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Like I said, I think people get too hung up on the idea that "fan fic immediately means it's bad." It doesn't inherently mean that at all.

  14. #344
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    busiek also draws parallels between comics and television writing

    A spec script isn’t fan fiction, it’s written with a professional purpose in mind. It’s a calling card, demonstrating what you can do; fan fiction is where you can do whatever you like simply because you like it.

    and the bard too

    Shakespeare borrowed plots and was influenced by what he read, but A COMEDY OF ERRORS isn’t MENAECHMI fanfic; Shakespeare wasn’t part of Menaechmi fandom. He was looting the past (legally) for material he could write as a play.
    troo fan or death

  15. #345
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Like I said, I think people get too hung up on the idea that "fan fic immediately means it's bad." It doesn't inherently mean that at all.
    yeah, i started off with a mix of fanfic and (highly derivative) original work before my first pro gig. i don’t read fanfic, but there’s no reason it can’t be high quality, though i’d guess a lot of it involves fan service and wish fulfilment
    troo fan or death

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