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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Question Why do Psycloke's powers diminish over time?



    Let's start, his powers have been the least consistent within the mutant universe.

    First, she was a first-rate telepath, capable of competing with Emma or even Jean.

    Then there is the change that we all know and the Psychic dagger appears, and basically Betsy drops a lot as a telepath.

    Then we have it with the overwhelming power of TK, which was her maximum expression. I believe in XtremeX, to then fall down from the top level since her return, being now one of the lowest TK users.

    Apparently this is because his telepathy increased, and therefore the TK has decreased so much ?, but this does not make sense if we see how she was easily possessed proteus, and did not even realize that Proteus was in the body of Blindfold, or as The shadow king subdued her with the low level telepaths, leaving the first level ones for the end.

    Seriously for me it does not make sense that her powers over the years are so inconsistent, and why he must diminish one of his abilities to be better in another. ANY EXPLICATION FOR THIS????

    Actually now I think this is at a midpoint in both aspects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post


    Let's start, his powers have been the least consistent within the mutant universe.

    First, she was a first-rate telepath, capable of competing with Emma or even Jean.

    Then there is the change that we all know and the Psychic dagger appears, and basically Betsy drops a lot as a telepath.

    Then we have it with the overwhelming power of TK, which was her maximum expression. I believe in XtremeX, to then fall down from the top level since her return, being now one of the lowest TK users.

    Apparently this is because his telepathy increased, and therefore the TK has decreased so much ?, but this does not make sense if we see how she was easily possessed proteus, and did not even realize that Proteus was in the body of Blindfold, or as The shadow king subdued her with the low level telepaths, leaving the first level ones for the end.

    Seriously for me it does not make sense that her powers over the years are so inconsistent, and why he must diminish one of his abilities to be better in another. ANY EXPLICATION FOR THIS????

    Actually now I think this is at a midpoint in both aspects.
    Let's make it very clear that in the 80s X-Men, the top ranked telepaths were Xavier, Jean, and Betsy, in no particular order. The fake blonde was barely a blip on the radar. If you're going to include her, you might as well include Selene since she also had telepathy amongst her multitude of powers.

    The change came because according to the retcon, Betsy's telepathic powers were divided in half between her and Revanche. So this is why Betsy's powers were weaker in the 90s. When Revanche died, she got her full powers back, but I think she lacked the training for them in her new body hence why she needed tutelage from Jean. In reality, the 90s didn't treat her much better and the most she seemed to be able to do was a flying kick or psychic knife.

    When Matt Fraction brought her back in the Sisterhood arc, he gave her her telepathy back, but apparently she only had a fraction of what it used to be and could only suggest things in people's minds. That was basically ignored. Rick Remender came along for UXF and ignored her telekinesis completely since he wanted to focus on just her telepathy, since otherwise she was too overpowered, and the telepathic version was the most famous version anyway. She's relatively powerful, but requires Jean to unlock the full potential of her mind at the end of The Dark Angel Saga. She gets her full telepathy unlocked and is revealed to be not only an omega-level telepath (whose powers rival Xavier and Jean), but also an omega-level mutant with a butterfly effect that rivals that of Jean's phoenix effect.

    Since then writers mostly like to use her for creating telekinetic weapons or using her telepathy to act as a psychic switchboard. The Apocalypse film shows how she's only good for making psychic blades because the popular incarnation of the character has been mostly depicted like that for a long time now. The explanation for her fluctuating powers is that when she uses too much telepathy, it weakens her telekinesis, and vice-versa. I'm not sure if writers still abide by that though.

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    I should also add that Rachel was another telepath who was to be rivaled in the 80s. The only reason it doesn't seem this way anymore is because of Chris Claremont's retconned version in the UXM Reload period where he claimed that she had power but no skill. Yet, a bunch of the psychic feats that he claimed she could not do, were all things she had done in the 80s, under Claremont's writing of all people. So for whatever reason, he had her whole character retconned when he got his hands on her again, because otherwise, there was never a case of her not being skilled at all. That's not the only thing he changed about Rachel, but that is neither here nor there.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    Let's make it very clear that in the 80s X-Men, the top ranked telepaths were Xavier, Jean, and Betsy, in no particular order. The fake blonde was barely a blip on the radar. If you're going to include her, you might as well include Selene since she also had telepathy amongst her multitude of powers.

    The change came because according to the retcon, Betsy's telepathic powers were divided in half between her and Revanche. So this is why Betsy's powers were weaker in the 90s. When Revanche died, she got her full powers back, but I think she lacked the training for them in her new body hence why she needed tutelage from Jean. In reality, the 90s didn't treat her much better and the most she seemed to be able to do was a flying kick or psychic knife.

    When Matt Fraction brought her back in the Sisterhood arc, he gave her her telepathy back, but apparently she only had a fraction of what it used to be and could only suggest things in people's minds. That was basically ignored. Rick Remender came along for UXF and ignored her telekinesis completely since he wanted to focus on just her telepathy, since otherwise she was too overpowered, and the telepathic version was the most famous version anyway. She's relatively powerful, but requires Jean to unlock the full potential of her mind at the end of The Dark Angel Saga. She gets her full telepathy unlocked and is revealed to be not only an omega-level telepath (whose powers rival Xavier and Jean), but also an omega-level mutant with a butterfly effect that rivals that of Jean's phoenix effect.

    Since then writers mostly like to use her for creating telekinetic weapons or using her telepathy to act as a psychic switchboard. The Apocalypse film shows how she's only good for making psychic blades because the popular incarnation of the character has been mostly depicted like that for a long time now. The explanation for her fluctuating powers is that when she uses too much telepathy, it weakens her telekinesis, and vice-versa. I'm not sure if writers still abide by that though.
    It's what I say she seems to give her a plus, and then they brutally lower her power.

    It is clear that in the last uncanny xmen, she does not is a level telepathically with Xavier or Jean, not even with Rachel and less Emma.

    Her TK has also decreased AGAIN considerably, of hehco both qualities this time seem to have lowered.

    And as far as his telepathy as I mentioned the Shadow King began with the weakest telepaths, and they clearly put Psyclocke below Emma Jean Xavier Rachel Kid Omega among others.

    My question is, is there any coherent explanation for her abilities to be diminished as time passes?

    Or is it really that to be of high level in telepathy or in TK does one have to lower one of the two abilities drastically? because in it this seems to be a pattern.

    Always she give increases, and instantaneously begins to drop quickly, this is not seen with the other characters, who are more constants, it already seems an established pattern.

    Or is that there is some explanation, because it is not in his real body????, or just because it was initially designed to be a telepath and broke it, because obviously Betsy was never a telepath as powerful as it was in the 80's, and his TK in level it comes and goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    It's what I say she seems to give her a plus, and then they brutally lower her power.

    It is clear that in the last uncanny xmen, she does not is a level telepathically with Xavier or Jean, not even with Rachel and less Emma.

    Her TK has also decreased AGAIN considerably, of hehco both qualities this time seem to have lowered.

    And as far as his telepathy as I mentioned the Shadow King began with the weakest telepaths, and they clearly put Psyclocke below Emma Jean Xavier Rachel Kid Omega among others.

    My question is, is there any coherent explanation for her abilities to be diminished as time passes?

    Or is it really that to be of high level in telepathy or in TK does one have to lower one of the two abilities drastically? because in it this seems to be a pattern.

    Always she give increases, and instantaneously begins to drop quickly, this is not seen with the other characters, who are more constants, it already seems an established pattern.

    Or is that there is some explanation, because it is not in his real body????, or just because it was initially designed to be a telepath and broke it, because obviously Betsy was never a telepath as powerful as it was in the 80's, and his TK in level it comes and goes.
    Most writers go with whatever spin they want to put on the character so while Remender amped her up, nobody else did anything with that. She's an easier character for people to write if she just creates telekinetic weapons or acts as a psychic switchboard.

    Her telekinesis was supposed to be mountain shattering and she could even fly around with ease, but that was also downplayed. Only Chris Claremont, who made her telekinetic, wrote her that way, and everyone else just makes her use her telekinesis to create katanas, crossbows, arrows, etc.

    Psylocke was powerful enough in the 90s to lock the Shadow King in her head. In UXF she faced him again although her telepathy was not fully unlocked at the beginning of the run. I can't remember if she had a significant run-in with him during the Brotherhood arc at the end of the run. And of course we've seen her and Shadow King again now with her most powerful "butterfly" manifestation yet. Psylocke shouldn't be one of the weakest telepaths though but most people consider her to be one because they can't look past her being a ninja. That's done a lot of damage to the character so even though she was incredibly powerful as a psi in the 80s, and then again in Remender's run, most people either don't know that or they just flat-out ignore it, because they want to write the low-powered psychic ninja character. In reality, Betsy's telepathy should be barely lower than Jean's and Rachel's and probably on par with Quentin since both are omega-level mutants. Her telepathy should be higher than Xavier's if we go by her omega-level classification and way above the White Queen. But most people only see her as the 90s ninja, which is why even in television shows like Wolverine and the X-Men, she was depicted fairly weak, or how in the X-Men Animated Series and X-Men: Apocalypse, her only powers besides fighting skills are making psychic blades.

    So there's really no real explanation for why she has become weaker except writer misuse and a lack of knowledge on their parts on what she is really capable of. The best canon reasoning would be that utilizing her telekinesis weakens her telepathy, and vice-versa, since that was the explanation used when she came back to the X-Men in order to not overpower her. Jean never had that issue of course, but we'll see if they do something similar to her as well to keep her from being overpowered.

    Betsy's real body shouldn't be an issue, because her new body was genetically modified to give her the same powers as before. After Revanche's death, the half of Betsy's psi-powers that Revanche had went back to Betsy, but writers also wrote her as the weak psi that she had been after the body swap, so it didn't really do any good for her.

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    I'd say thats the natural progression for characters who are not envisioned as being 'main event' or teambusters.

    And as JGF points to, Betsy is one of the characters with such a bewildering power set, it's perhaps more than most writers care to deal with in it's full version and simply stick with the easiest and most definable powers.
    Like Storm is somewhat in the similar situation, but going the other way, she also has such a huge and vaguely defined powerset it seems that certain writers simply give her whatever power they want her to have, whenever it makes sense or not... like being able to see where power cables go through floorboards and such.

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    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    But it's my point, Remender gave him a big increase, just when he left her, he went down.

    In XM clearly drastically under power, he was just a ninja with some tk and quite limited telepathy.

    And now we see AXM who consider it one of the weakest telepaths.

    In her, this has been a pattern, they raise it and then make it lose abilities drastically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    But it's my point, Remender gave him a big increase, just when he left her, he went down.

    In XM clearly drastically under power, he was just a ninja with some tk and quite limited telepathy.

    And now we see AXM who consider it one of the weakest telepaths.

    In her, this has been a pattern, they raise it and then make it lose abilities drastically.
    Think that simply has to do with whenever or not the writer has an interest in writing her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Think that simply has to do with whenever or not the writer has an interest in writing her.
    Yes, and it's unfortunate that no writer has really done a good job with Betsy since Remender although I didn't mind Bunn's version so much.

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    Personally I wasn't a fan of Remender's version of Betsy, Warren either...

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member DurararaFTW's Avatar
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    She's a ninja, she's not gonna have telepathy and telekinesis of such a level that it leaves her martial prowess irrelevant.

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    Psylocke is a martial artist/physical fighter. She doesn't need to be an all powerful psi. That's Jean. In order to differentiate between other psi, they have Psylocke focus her psionic powers more on making psychic weapons that related to her physical combat. I think part of the reason Psylocke was turned into a ninja is because they were going to have Xavier (high range telepath) and Jean (high range telepath/telekinetic) rejoin the team. So they wanted to differentiate Psylocke.

    I also don't like Psylocke shattering mountains with her TK. I like to see her kick ass physically. Not every telepath/telekinetic needs to be billed the world's most powerful. I like seeing a character like her take her powers, which aren't considered to be the most powerful, and still take down major opponents. I like her ties to the Hand and the Mandarin.

  13. #13
    Incredible Member psylurker's Avatar
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    I never liked Claremont's decision to make Betsy a telekinetic in the first place. And we only ever got an explanation of how that happened in a post on the old ComiXfan forums, it never even made it in-story! I understand he thought a power switch was something fun to explore, but to have a martial artist also be a telekinetik doesn't seem like a great fit to me.

    I much more enjoyed Remender's Betsy being a full-blown telepath again. The current canon seems to have Psylocke mainly as a telepath with occasional feats of teke (shields, weapons, some flight) but nothing that can "shatter mountains", which I can live with. I like the idea of Betts using her limited teke to enhance her physical prowess and provide a modicum of defense, but that's about it.

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanGreyForever View Post
    Most writers go with whatever spin they want to put on the character so while Remender amped her up, nobody else did anything with that. She's an easier character for people to write if she just creates telekinetic weapons or acts as a psychic switchboard.

    Her telekinesis was supposed to be mountain shattering and she could even fly around with ease, but that was also downplayed. Only Chris Claremont, who made her telekinetic, wrote her that way, and everyone else just makes her use her telekinesis to create katanas, crossbows, arrows, etc.

    Psylocke was powerful enough in the 90s to lock the Shadow King in her head. In UXF she faced him again although her telepathy was not fully unlocked at the beginning of the run. I can't remember if she had a significant run-in with him during the Brotherhood arc at the end of the run. And of course we've seen her and Shadow King again now with her most powerful "butterfly" manifestation yet. Psylocke shouldn't be one of the weakest telepaths though but most people consider her to be one because they can't look past her being a ninja. That's done a lot of damage to the character so even though she was incredibly powerful as a psi in the 80s, and then again in Remender's run, most people either don't know that or they just flat-out ignore it, because they want to write the low-powered psychic ninja character. In reality, Betsy's telepathy should be barely lower than Jean's and Rachel's and probably on par with Quentin since both are omega-level mutants. Her telepathy should be higher than Xavier's if we go by her omega-level classification and way above the White Queen. But most people only see her as the 90s ninja, which is why even in television shows like Wolverine and the X-Men, she was depicted fairly weak, or how in the X-Men Animated Series and X-Men: Apocalypse, her only powers besides fighting skills are making psychic blades.

    So there's really no real explanation for why she has become weaker except writer misuse and a lack of knowledge on their parts on what she is really capable of. The best canon reasoning would be that utilizing her telekinesis weakens her telepathy, and vice-versa, since that was the explanation used when she came back to the X-Men in order to not overpower her. Jean never had that issue of course, but we'll see if they do something similar to her as well to keep her from being overpowered.

    Betsy's real body shouldn't be an issue, because her new body was genetically modified to give her the same powers as before. After Revanche's death, the half of Betsy's psi-powers that Revanche had went back to Betsy, but writers also wrote her as the weak psi that she had been after the body swap, so it didn't really do any good for her.
    It was specifically stated in Psi-War that Shadow King overreached with his powers and left his nexus unguarded and made a mistake even a rookie would not make. And Psylocke capitalised. Locking him away in Psi-War was not due to power but the arrogance of the Shadow King to make such a mistake

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Think that simply has to do with whenever or not the writer has an interest in writing her.
    True, but in your case it seems a curse and a pattern that is already in canon, receives a huge increase in power, then download it ridiculously.

    This was always so with her, I find it very funny and even funny, every time Psylocke receives an improvement, I wonder how many days it will take to begin to make it decrease XD.

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