View Poll Results: What should Diana's origin be ?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Zeus

    27 41.54%
  • Other God

    1 1.54%
  • regular person

    1 1.54%
  • She doesn't need a father

    36 55.38%
Page 1 of 10 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 148

Thread: Diana's father

  1. #1
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,353

    Default Diana's father

    I get that it doesn't matter who the father is but rather how you raise your child. But in a sense why can't Diana have a father who isn't an abuser or rapist? In a sense you're are just having the same parent line as the rest of trinity's situation with their parent? WHy has Diana been a target? Doesn't that defeat Diana's origin? An abuser, rapist and a murderous wife defeat the point of Diana. Yes the Amazons raised her but even than Diana is a target and her mother gave herself to a rapist. She knows this. Why have sex with a rapist and an abuser, and a cheater? Why can't Diana earn her powers? Why can't Hippolyta just save a man and they fall in love? Why can't it be the happy origin?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 11:53 AM.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  2. #2

    Default

    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too. You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 12-07-2017 at 01:00 PM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too. You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)
    Thats several times worse than anything thats ever been given Diana or anyone close to her in terms of parentage.

  4. #4
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,436

    Default

    I've got no problem with Zeus; it's logical.
    Why do people need to worry if ancient Greek mythology is politically correct or not?

  5. #5
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I've got no problem with Zeus; it's logical.
    Why do people need to worry if ancient Greek mythology is politically correct or not?
    Oh baby gotta break this into microscopic pieces.

    1. Wonder Woman is inherently a political book.
    2. Wonder Woman's inception was inspired by Greek Myth, not derived from it.
    3. "Political correctness" is a suspicious topic to level and debate, and its invoker should always be a complicit in its dissection.
    4. Context logic is different than theme logic.
    5. People aren't worried about myth, they're worried about Wonder Woman.
    6. People aren't worried.
    7. Zeus is a problematic character, made powerful by a problematic paradigm.
    8. Even simple consent is murky when one party is a deity.

    There's more, obviously, but I'm on my way out the door.

    As for me, my endpoints tend to align with Outside, but my I prefer to work through Bifrost's methodologies.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    475

    Default

    She doesn't need one. This trope is weird. At this point, far too much time has passed to develop a relationship with a father figure significant enough to make any kind of noteworthy multimedia impact whatsoever.
    Last edited by Amazon Swordsman; 12-07-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Mad scientist Carabas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    14,857

    Default

    She doesn't have a father. She has a stranger who had something with her mum once upon a long time ago. Who happens to be Zeus.

    So from my POV the poll should be multiple choice. Well, from my POV all polls should be, but that's another matter.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
    - Gerhard Bronner

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,847

    Default

    I went with other God, because I think it should be Hercules (demigod, and became a God in most texts). He's the most logical choice as he's already heavily involved with the DCU Amazons and the real world myth the encounter is based upon is the tale Hippolyta is most well known for. We can also avoid the "Hera's pissed again" cliche, unless she's so petty that the bastards of Zeus's bastards are enough to get her riled up. He's also similarly out of the picture post-origin (and in one version is dead as a door nail), leaving Hippolyta to be the dominant parental figure in the narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    Thats several times worse than anything thats ever been given Diana or anyone close to her in terms of parentage.
    No, it really isn't. A sperm is still meeting an egg if her father is a normal dude and the clay birth is avoided. So that problem (if someone perceives it as such) is solved. The plus sides of a mortal man being her father means he doesn't dominate the narrative and define Diana based on who her father is, which is a trap they have fallen into numerous times with Zeus. And they'd probably do it with Hercules too, tbf.

  9. #9
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    No, it really isn't. A sperm is still meeting an egg if her father is a normal dude and the clay birth is avoided. So that problem (if someone perceives it as such) is solved. The plus sides of a mortal man being her father means he doesn't dominate the narrative and define Diana based on who her father is, which is a trap they have fallen into numerous times with Zeus. And they'd probably do it with Hercules too, tbf.
    You perceive Zeus as dad as being a problem, the story does not, the problem lies with you, not it.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,847

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    You perceive Zeus as dad as being a problem, the story does not, the problem lies with you, not it.
    The story can do whatever it wants, it doesn't mean it's beyond being criticized for the tropes (and some would argue cliches) it uses. No story is.

    Should we say your problems with Doctor Bifrost's proposed idea of a mortal man being her father lie with you and not the potential story? You didn't really back up why that would be a terrible idea for her or anyone close to her.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    4,659

    Default

    No daddy required. It worked just fine up until 2011.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Batgirl & The Birds of Prey, Green Arrow. Hal Jordan & The Green Lantern Corps, Justice League of America, The Terrifics, Titans, Wonder Woman, & Wonder Woman '77.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside_85 View Post
    You perceive Zeus as dad as being a problem, the story does not, the problem lies with you, not it.
    That's a...very odd perspective for literary criticism (or any other kind of criticism). If someone has a criticism of a story, but the story does not have the same criticism of itself, therefore the problem is with the critic and the criticism should be dismissed?

    I have issues with your take that have nothing to do with Zeus. But since your take doesn't have the same issues with itself, I suppose the problem lies with me and there's nothing to talk about...
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  13. #13
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The story can do whatever it wants, it doesn't mean it's beyond being criticized for the tropes (and some would argue cliches) it uses. No story is.

    Should we say your problems with Doctor Bifrost's proposed idea of a mortal man being her father lie with you and not the potential story? You didn't really back up why that would be a terrible idea for her or anyone close to her.
    And you are advocating for a failed Jesus narrative.

    My problems lie in the comparison to one of the greatest a-holes of comics outside of Trump parodies... making Diana even remotely related, even in spirit, to Jordan turns her into a soulless Barbie doll thanks now called Ivanka.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    That's a...very odd perspective for literary criticism (or any other kind of criticism). If someone has a criticism of a story, but the story does not have the same criticism of itself, therefore the problem is with the critic and the criticism should be dismissed?

    I have issues with your take that have nothing to do with Zeus. But since your take doesn't have the same issues with itself, I suppose the problem lies with me and there's nothing to talk about...
    People haven't had a problem with this type of story for several thousands of years, then along comes you felling all offended by Zeus, what makes you special in this case?

    if that's the case you do an appalling job of saying otherwise, so perhaps you'd one day like to formulate it through something other than smoke signals from the arctic circle?
    Last edited by Outside_85; 12-07-2017 at 05:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Usually at the End of Time
    Posts
    3,118

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too.

    I hadn't really considered this option before, but, yeah, I concur. Like, a totally regular, non-CBPH, non-magical, average joe.


    You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    So, to be clear: in this scenario, Hippolyta would be akin to Hal's dad here, i.e. the heroic uber-parent. While Diana's regular joe dad would be akin to Hal's non-descript mom, yes? Except, both of Hal's parents are long dead AFAIK (or ..?), and Hippolyta has Alfred status (can't ever die for realsies), so here I would likewise keep Average Joe Dad alive but away from all the action most of the time with no chance of overshadowing Hippolyta or Diana (unlike Zeus).

    I just realized I'm totally thinking of a still-living Rose Quartz and Greg Universe, parents of Steven Universe:



    Yeah, if Diana's dad was as simple and nice and mortal (and as completely useless in battle) as Greg Universe, while Hippolyta remains as badass as Rose Quartz, I'd be down for that as Diana's parentage.


    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)

    I just read this. Very well said, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything in it.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,353

    Default

    I mean if it were regular everyday joe I do think he should still be alive. That to the Gods he earned being immortal and lives with the Amazons. I do think it would be a nice change to his character when Diana comes home. I mean does her father being Zeus really rejected her from getting her powers? Why not have them earned by winning the contest? How should the average joe be?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 05:44 PM.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •