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  1. #16
    Looney Toon Carabas's Avatar
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    He's Superman. Being good at pretty much everything is his thing.
    "One may be intelligent, and a Nazi. Then one is not decent. One may be decent and a Nazi. Then one is not intelligent. And one may be intelligent and decent. Then one is not a Nazi"
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  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    He's Superman. Being good at pretty much everything is his thing.
    So to delve right into the question I had initially wanted to avoid, how does he do it and how much is too much?

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Let's say he does.

    What good would that actually do. Being involved in politics is one thing. Being good at it would be something else.
    Well, first off, since Clark doesn't have a political position and hasn't been elected to an office, he'd be influencing policy through public opinion, not filibuster. Superman can't tell Congress what bills to pass into law or anything. But he can make a comment publicly about which bills he likes and which ones he doesn't, why he feels that way, and then encourage people to share their opinions with their representatives.

    I imagine that, this being the DCU and Superman being practically worshiped by the masses (sometimes literally) his merest comment carries huge weight with public perception. It'd be like jesus coming down and saying "Yknow, this tax bill looks sketchy to me. Are we sure this is what we want to pass?" Who's gonna argue with jesus? Any politician looking to continue their career and be re-elected would almost be forced into voting Superman's way by the sheer weight of his public approval.

    Of course, that gets into the question of whether Clark should exercise that influence and I believe the general consensus is "no." And I agree with that. Its too blunt. It starts people on the path of dependency and Clark will never get us to that bright, shiny 31st century future if people need Superman to tell them what to think. That's why Clark Kent is so important. Clark can say the things Superman shouldn't. Its not as quick or easy, but it offers better long-term gains.
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  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, first off, since Clark doesn't have a political position and hasn't been elected to an office, he'd be influencing policy through public opinion, not filibuster. Superman can't tell Congress what bills to pass into law or anything. But he can make a comment publicly about which bills he likes and which ones he doesn't, why he feels that way, and then encourage people to share their opinions with their representatives.

    I imagine that, this being the DCU and Superman being practically worshiped by the masses (sometimes literally) his merest comment carries huge weight with public perception. It'd be like jesus coming down and saying "Yknow, this tax bill looks sketchy to me. Are we sure this is what we want to pass?" Who's gonna argue with jesus? Any politician looking to continue their career and be re-elected would almost be forced into voting Superman's way by the sheer weight of his public approval.

    Of course, that gets into the question of whether Clark should exercise that influence and I believe the general consensus is "no." And I agree with that. Its too blunt. It starts people on the path of dependency and Clark will never get us to that bright, shiny 31st century future if people need Superman to tell them what to think. That's why Clark Kent is so important. Clark can say the things Superman shouldn't. Its not as quick or easy, but it offers better long-term gains.
    Superman should make those statements but very sparingly IMO. Like, once a year, on the most pertinent issue. You're right that Clark, in his ordinary job function, has as much potential as any other journalist or activist to push the envelope and go all in with his social commentary.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    Superman should make those statements but very sparingly IMO. Like, once a year, on the most pertinent issue. You're right that Clark, in his ordinary job function, has as much potential as any other journalist or activist to push the envelope and go all in with his social commentary.
    I wouldn't be against Clark throwing his hat into the ring now and then. After letting the whole President Luthor deal happen I'd like to think Clark isn't as willing to trust the system as he was during that era and embraces his more Golden Age/activist history.

    Not all the time. But when it really matters? Climate change and whatnot? Yeah, Superman might have a thing or two to say about it.
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  6. #21

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    stop natural disasters and man-made disasters.

  7. #22
    Superman of E-6 Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    The problem with Superman working for the bettering of humanity is interesting because it involves many aspects. But there is also he has a life as Clark Ken t and I think tha is Clark Kent who is more proactive working for the bettering of the manking as a human than Superman.
    Superman understand he has a lot of power and influence, he could simply "hey, vote for this guy" and people would vote for that guy because they trust him, but that is not something than Superman would do, he prefers to be more cautious and not fall in extreme behaviors. For Superman, he is eternally trapped in the lesson of the Butterfly: he is here to help us to struggle, but not to make the struggle for us. For Superman is more hard not to help than give a hand.
    This idea has been explored several times ("There must be there a Superman?" "Superman: king of the world"), but it could be interesting to see analized again under a modern perspective.

    However there is always an idea than makes me wonder and is: Should Superman share the technolgy of Krypton on earth? Could he? Should he?
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    The problem with Superman working for the bettering of humanity is interesting because it involves many aspects. But there is also he has a life as Clark Ken t and I think tha is Clark Kent who is more proactive working for the bettering of the manking as a human than Superman.
    Superman understand he has a lot of power and influence, he could simply "hey, vote for this guy" and people would vote for that guy because they trust him, but that is not something than Superman would do, he prefers to be more cautious and not fall in extreme behaviors. For Superman, he is eternally trapped in the lesson of the Butterfly: he is here to help us to struggle, but not to make the struggle for us. For Superman is more hard not to help than give a hand.
    This idea has been explored several times ("There must be there a Superman?" "Superman: king of the world"), but it could be interesting to see analized again under a modern perspective.

    However there is always an idea than makes me wonder and is: Should Superman share the technolgy of Krypton on earth? Could he? Should he?
    That's a tough one, certainly.

    I think Clark holds that technology back 99.99% of the time. Look at how we've struggled to adapt and keep up with our own technological advancement, and the unforeseen consequences, both good and bad, it's caused. Imagine how much worse it would be with Kryptonian tech let loose into the world? I think Clark keeps it to himself for our own good....and also for his. Clark gives so damn much of himself to the world every single day. And the stuff he has in the Fortress.....those are the last bits of his species' culture and achievements. He'd want to guard those things, protect them, and keep them to himself. I think Superman deserves to keep what is left of Krypton to himself and not have to see it twisted and used by people, many of whom don't really deserve the honor. In a way, it'd feel like building a hospital on Native burial grounds; disrespectful.

    I do think that Clark might, on rare occasion, dumb some of his tech down and let a little of it slip into the world though. As I said earlier in the thread, I think Clark will give science and philosophy a tiny nudge in the right direction when people can't quite manage it for themselves. And I think that would include some basic Kryptonian science/culture. And just the basics, sort of like using your smartphone to teach people how to harness electricity; it's a big jump up but it's far removed from Internet access, cat videos, and global communication.

    I think there are inherent limits too. I like the idea that Clark has tried to cure cancer and failed. He might have a brain like a super computer and technology billions of years beyond us, but our basic biology is different enough that Kryptonian medical science is basically useless. And because our environment is so different, certain aspects of Kryptonian science don't apply either; Krypton's version of solar power is likely very different than our's, and likely useless on earth because of the differences in atmosphere, gravity, molecular makeup, etc.
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  9. #24
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
    I'm sure this has been debated in other threads but I wanted to highlight it.

    This isn't so much a question of "when should Superman intervene in human history" but rather asking creative ways in which Superman should help advance humanity, whether morally, scientifically, intellectually, or otherwise.

    We all know he primarily does it by example, acting in ways that inspire humans to act similarly. But what societal gifts can he give that only he can provide? He is the Man of Tomorrow after all; what instruments from the promise of a better future does he pass on?

    Some examples:

    -Using his senses to develop new theories of thermodynamics & renewable energy production and engineering
    -Regularly providing information and materials from space for us to learn from
    -Occasionally dropping in on medical professionals to help cure a medical epidemic or precarious surgical procedure
    -Giving Ted-Talk like lectures at Universities on sociological analysis (though I can see Wonder Woman doing this more often)
    -Occasionally helping elite musicians discover new sounds and arrangements for fun

    Ideally I see the whole league doing these like this, advancing science and medicine and philosophy and economics and art when not saving the world from natural disaster and bad guys, but Superman is uniquely positioned to operate on a lot of fronts with the trust of the world.

    So what would you like to see?
    I'd like to see him try all the ones you listed (except the TED talks - there's no way that wouldn't seem condescending coming from the man who can do almost anything anyway ... tho strangely, TED talks would be ideal for Wonder Woman, given her blunt mission statement).

    However, there is a twist:

    I'd like to see Superman try to better humanity ... and then have it constantly, routinely blow up in his face. Through no fault of his own. It's just that humanity can't be given nice things without messing them up.

    - his thermodynamics immediately get converted by humans for use by the military industrial complex, bringing death across the globe.

    - his knowledge of space to humans begins a call for humans to forcibly colonize the galaxy to take those resources for themselves (Lex is definitely behind this)

    - Supes solves one medical crisis and then gets pestered to do nothing but for every medical crisis, and when someone dies because he didn't solve it, he gets slapped by grieving mothers just like in GROUNDED

    - the musicians he helps take all the credit for the new symphonies and deny Superman had any role

    Basically, humanity keeps screwing Supes over, and despite how horrible we as s species keep proving ourselves to be, he never stops looking out for us.

    -

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    I'd like to see him try all the ones you listed (except the TED talks - there's no way that wouldn't seem condescending coming from the man who can do almost anything anyway ... tho strangely, TED talks would be ideal for Wonder Woman, given her blunt mission statement).

    However, there is a twist:

    I'd like to see Superman try to better humanity ... and then have it constantly, routinely blow up in his face. Through no fault of his own. It's just that humanity can't be given nice things without messing them up.

    - his thermodynamics immediately get converted by humans for use by the military industrial complex, bringing death across the globe.

    - his knowledge of space to humans begins a call for humans to forcibly colonize the galaxy to take those resources for themselves (Lex is definitely behind this)

    - Supes solves one medical crisis and then gets pestered to do nothing but for every medical crisis, and when someone dies because he didn't solve it, he gets slapped by grieving mothers just like in GROUNDED

    - the musicians he helps take all the credit for the new symphonies and deny Superman had any role

    Basically, humanity keeps screwing Supes over, and despite how horrible we as s species keep proving ourselves to be, he never stops looking out for us.

    -
    I like your ideas, though personally I think there should be an upswing at the end of those arcs where something of value is retained after an initial failure or abuse/exploitation and used for good by humanity once the lesson is learned.

  11. #26
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    He shouldn't, he's not of humanity by nature or full comprehension, only by knowledge by his upbringing. If he wants humankind bettering themselves, he has much better success trying to convert Lex Luthor to do good than letting people listen to him always. DC humans I feel pretty much stays stagnant as a species, as far as they can progress on a natural fundamental level of morality and prowess, in order to allow people born of myths like Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman to exist for the people they inspire; since the earth based human heroes and residents have to hold the former's alien ideal principles and concepts in order to stay in the center of superhero fiction meta wise. People like Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern have to serve or work with the outsiders that are beings from outside of reality or not earth bound, molding themselves after them in a way of being both human and unreal. Really Clark and Diana are humanlike beings that come from gods in a sense, thats not a aspiring way to teach humanity to grow and advance in being beyond what they are now, if anything that would be the ideal of being a symbol to human perfection or ideal godlike potential belongs to Batman and constant street level heroes in DC.
    Last edited by SpideyCeo; 01-07-2018 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyCeo View Post
    He shouldn't, he's not of humanity by nature or full comprehension, only by knowledge by his upbringing. If he wants humankind bettering themselves, he has much better success trying to convert Lex Luthor to do good than letting people listen to him always. DC humans I feel pretty much stays stagnant as a species, as far as they can progress on a natural fundamental level of morality and prowess, in order to allow people born of myths like Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman to exist for the people they inspire; since the earth based human heroes and residents have to hold the former's alien ideal principles and concepts in order to stay in the center of superhero fiction meta wise. People like Batman, the Flash, Green Lantern have to serve or work with the outsiders that are beings from outside of reality or not earth bound, molding themselves after them in a way of being both human and unreal. Really Clark and Diana are humanlike beings that come from gods in a sense, thats not a aspiring way to teach humanity to grow and advance in being beyond what they are now, if anything that would be the ideal of being a symbol to human perfection or ideal godlike potential belongs to Batman and constant street level heroes in DC.
    So are you of the opinion that only the human street-level characters of the DCU are the ones who should try and use their abilities to influence the trajectory of human development?

  13. #28

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    bring irrigation and regular water supplies to drought stricken areas. drill some reservoirs.

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